If a sandbox game can sell well in Asia, it makes sense that the place it would get developed would be in Asia. They aren't going to do super well in the "West". It's been tried and done...outperformed time and again by theme parks and more casual game mechanics.
Exactly. The western market is themepark based. Theres no major western developer making a sandbox mmo, that tells you something about the western fanbase.
As mmo fans you need to ask yourself what type of game do you like. You should ask yourself what type of game you like. The wrong question to ask is do you like asian mmo's or western mmo's.
Waiting for:EQ-Next, ArcheAge (not so much anymore) Now Playing: N/A Worst MMO: FFXIV Favorite MMO: FFXI
Don't expect anything out of Snail Games on Darkness and Light. These are the people who bought the horrendous Dark & Light MMO made by Farlan. Since then they have done absolutely nothing with it. They've even removed any reference to it on their web sites.
"I used to think the worst thing in life was to be all alone. It's not. The worst thing in life is to end up with people who make you feel all alone." Robin Williams
I think what OP is trying to tell, than actually Asian developers are trying to be innovative when western ones stagnated and produce same thing over and over.
You can not agree with me but for me VO is Swtor is not innovative. It is just lipstick put on same old thing. Not that Swtor will not be enjoyable as many people will find it enjoyable, but at core gameplay it is just copying old schematics.
Rift also was copy & pasting. Small thing like Rifts, sorry but it is just big random spawn. Small innovation.
GW2 maybe will have some innovtions but actually NCSoft owns 100% of Arena.net so it's kinda Asian owned company...
No
Western MMO companies come to the realization that the market isnt there for big budget MMO sandbox games. If eastern companies can produce a game their players enjoy, plus have the added bonus of western sandbox gamers, it will be a nice win for them.
Eastern games have been known for grinding and PVP play, so part of that alone should appeal to some of the sandbox fans on this site.
It may not be entirely what western sandbox gamers want, but unlike Rysom, I think these games may see support from the western sandbox gamers.
Asking Devs to make AAA sandbox titles is like trying to get fine dining on a McDonalds dollar menu budget.
Western MMO companies come to the realization that the market isnt there for big budget MMO sandbox games.
When was the last time a Western developer actually developed a big budget sandbox MMO though.
Don't really understand the notion that the West wouldn't like sandbox games. Wasn't GTAIV super popular?
I think it's more that they want to take the easy raod and just copy WoW. I bet if WoW was a sandbox game everyone would be making sandboxes right now.
Originally posted by CalmOceans Originally posted by Moaky07 Western MMO companies come to the realization that the market isnt there for big budget MMO sandbox games.
When was the last time a Western developer actually developed a big budget sandbox MMO though. Don't really understand the notion that the West wouldn't like sandbox games. Wasn't GTAIV super popular?
I think it's more that they want to take the easy raod and just copy WoW. I bet if WoW was a sandbox game everyone would be making sandboxes right now.
Neither road is 'easy'. Writing a sandbox game isn't significantly harder than writing a theme park game. It may even be easier. The only hard part is finding enough players who actually like the game to cover your costs and turn a profit.
Even without WoW in the picture, the trend towards them parks was well under way and would have continued. The only thing WoW added to the picture was the thought that you could release a game that wasn't finished and make a boatload of money.
I can not remember winning or losing a single debate on the internet.
Yes i am so looking forward to these titles coming and yes from what i have read over the last year or so by all accounts they do give the impression of being sandbox saviors,Archage being the one i am most looking forward to.
Have given up on todays mmos,tryed them all from Wow to Rift and guess what am currently back playing Vanguard,IN MY OPINION one of the best.
I agree, Vanguard was the last MMO I played that I really liked...Too bad they didn't do a lot of things differently with it.
Western MMO companies come to the realization that the market isnt there for big budget MMO sandbox games.
When was the last time a Western developer actually developed a big budget sandbox MMO though.
Don't really understand the notion that the West wouldn't like sandbox games. Wasn't GTAIV super popular?
I think it's more that they want to take the easy raod and just copy WoW. I bet if WoW was a sandbox game everyone would be making sandboxes right now.
Neither road is 'easy'. Writing a sandbox game isn't significantly harder than writing a theme park game. It may even be easier. The only hard part is finding enough players who actually like the game to cover your costs and turn a profit.
Even without WoW in the picture, the trend towards them parks was well under way and would have continued. The only thing WoW added to the picture was the thought that you could release a game that wasn't finished and make a boatload of money.
I disagree, I think it's easier to write something, if your going to keep people on a rail and know what they are going to do...
I think what OP is trying to tell, than actually Asian developers are trying to be innovative when western ones stagnated and produce same thing over and over.
You can not agree with me but for me VO is Swtor is not innovative. It is just lipstick put on same old thing. Not that Swtor will not be enjoyable as many people will find it enjoyable, but at core gameplay it is just copying old schematics.
Rift also was copy & pasting. Small thing like Rifts, sorry but it is just big random spawn. Small innovation.
GW2 maybe will have some innovtions but actually NCSoft owns 100% of Arena.net so it's kinda Asian owned company...
In Asia they have more liquidity to experiment with and push innovation.
The West is in an economic downturn and investors want more "sure things" to invest in rather than taking too many risks. We probably won't see anything super in software experiments here unless something tests well in Asia first.
I used to play MMOs like you, but then I took an arrow to the knee.
Yeah I know that Asian games were pretty bad in the early years but they are making strides in their quality as of late. Considering how god awful western games have become I really think the western developers will be over taken in the next few years by asian developers.
Velika: City of Wheels: Among the mortal races, the humans were the only one that never built cities or great empires; a curse laid upon them by their creator, Gidd, forced them to wander as nomads for twenty centuries...
I really think the western developers will be over taken in the next few years by asian developers.
If only they have a western publisher and don't rape the 'ports too badly. Unfortunately, that has rather often been a problem with Asian developed games.
Self-pity imprisons us in the walls of our own self-absorption. The whole world shrinks down to the size of our problem, and the more we dwell on it, the smaller we are and the larger the problem seems to grow.
I think it's more that they want to take the easy raod and just copy WoW. I bet if WoW was a sandbox game everyone would be making sandboxes right now.
If wow was a sandbox game it wouldnt be a fraction of what it is now. Its simple a lot of people like casual, easy mode games on rails. Thats mainstream and for some reason thats what the majority of mmo'ers like. COuple that with the fact that those types of games are much easier to make than a good sandbox, hence we get themepark after themepark.
Waiting for:EQ-Next, ArcheAge (not so much anymore) Now Playing: N/A Worst MMO: FFXIV Favorite MMO: FFXI
To this very day people ridicule asian mmo players for dealing with grindy, party oriented eastern mmos. But it's that very mentality that has lead them to this point in the industry. For years BEFORE WoW, asian mmo players have been exposed to millions of mmo players that play hundreds of mmos that tried to mimic the success of Lineage I. Funny thing is I don't recall nearly the same amount of vemon directed toward their developers like I do when I read western mmo forums. Even with all the Lineage I "clones" they put out since then.
After Lineage I, Ragnarok was their second huge mmo from the iso viewpoint (again a copy of Lineage I gaming style). Again they took it in stride and honestly it was a pretty cool mmo. It built upon the Lineage I formula and deviated with it's own style. Also I doubt that they tore down other mmo players for playing it like you see here. It's the very reason gaming is such a huge phenomenon there, while we tend to still divide and conquer our collective gaming populace. They welcome an influx of new gamers, old, young, female, casual, hardcore or non traditional mmo players. I'm sure it didn't matter to them where the money was coming from, just so long as the genre was growing, even if it seemed that countless copies were bein released.
The countless mmos that asian developers crank out dwarves any amount we see developed here in the west. For every 10 mmos they release (even if 9 of 10 are considered crap) the west will release 1. So with this ratio they are learning a lot quicker which formulas don't work and what fomulas to try next. And now we are in the ebb of our mmo growing spurts and most of you here are calling it quits already, while I personally don't think we have seen enough western releases yet to even begin to mimic the evolution in the east, what we do have though is the financial ability (because of the growing eastern mmo population and capital + acceptance of different mmo revenue models) of the east to take more chances in bringing over their new formulas to the west at the same time they release them in the east.
It's a shame we as a western mmo playerbase are so behind the curve when it comes to mmos, that we cannot grasp the reason that the east is outpacing the west is because WoW and other good mmos we shun have MORE eastern players than western ones. And no, they are not all chinese gold farmers. They have already passed their WoW clone phase, if there was ever one to begin with. And are now coming full circle again with these so called "sandpark" hybrids. I wonder how long it will be for western players to realize you need MORE mmo players in the genre to spurt creativity, not less.
"Small minds talk about people, average minds talk about events, great minds talk about ideas."
ArchAge has potential to be revolutionary - However, I'm done following games. These things takes so long to develop, by the time they eventually do get released, you don't really care anymore.
I was following TERA for a while - Thought the combat would be the next big thing for me, now I don't really care for the game anymore.
To this very day people ridicule asian mmo players for dealing with grindy, party oriented eastern mmos. But it's that very mentality that has lead them to this point in the industry. For years BEFORE WoW, asian mmo players have been exposed to millions of mmo players that play hundreds of mmos that tried to mimic the success of Lineage I. Funny thing is I don't recall nearly the same amount of vemon directed toward their developers like I do when I read western mmo forums. Even with all the Lineage I "clones" they put out since then.
After Lineage I, Ragnarok was their second huge mmo from the iso viewpoint (again a copy of Lineage I gaming style). Again they took it in stride and honestly it was a pretty cool mmo. It built upon the Lineage I formula and deviated with it's own style. Also I doubt that they tore down other mmo players for playing it like you see here. It's the very reason gaming is such a huge phenomenon there, while we tend to still divide and conquer our collective gaming populace. They welcome an influx of new gamers, old, young, female, casual, hardcore or non traditional mmo players. I'm sure it didn't matter to them where the money was coming from, just so long as the genre was growing, even if it seemed that countless copies were bein released.
The countless mmos that asian developers crank out dwarves any amount we see developed here in the west. For every 10 mmos they release (even if 9 of 10 are considered crap) the west will release 1. So with this ratio they are learning a lot quicker which formulas don't work and what fomulas to try next. And now we are in the ebb of our mmo growing spurts and most of you here are calling it quits already, while I personally don't think we have seen enough western releases yet to even begin to mimic the evolution in the east, what we do have though is the financial ability (because of the growing eastern mmo population and capital + acceptance of different mmo revenue models) of the east to take more chances in bringing over their new formulas to the west at the same time they release them in the east.
It's a shame we as a western mmo playerbase are so behind the curve when it comes to mmos, that we cannot grasp the reason that the east is outpacing the west is because WoW and other good mmos we shun have MORE eastern players than western ones. And no, they are not all chinese gold farmers. They have already passed their WoW clone phase, if there was ever one to begin with. And are now coming full circle again with these so called "sandpark" hybrids. I wonder how long it will be for western players to realize you need MORE mmo players in the genre to spurt creativity, not less.
It's funny, I loved Lineage 1, Ragnarok Online, and Lineage 2. Asian MMOs, please get back to your roots!!
I honestly think swtor will put the nail in the coffin on any potential western devoloped aaa true sandbox titles for quite some time. For the first time investors will be able to compare the sales of sandbox versus themepark over the same target demographic.
I remember reading swg topping out subs at one point at 1 mil, eve has around 400k.
The east is really the best hope for sandboxes style titles If swtor sells well and it looks like it will. Most investors will be re-affirmed with the mentality the sandboxes don't sell and themeparks do.
So yea the graphic looks good, but the potential in sandbox is no more than it has been in western mmo. The potential was always there in many games, but never materialized. So yes potential with asian games is there, but I assume with so many other games it will remain just that... potential and no more.
Asian MMOs will not make an impact on EU/ NA markets as long as EU/ NA markets hold to old standards. Asian developers don't make niche MMOs they combine multiple niches in to single MMOs and allow the community to self segregate. NA/ EU MMO's are built around single demographics and as such are much smaller in community and content. Asian MMOs dialate thier market in an effort to clone the "WoW effect" rather than "theme parking" them or in reality, niching them to a single demographic.
While you are correct, Asian MMOs are where sandbox will thrive, it won't transalte to better EU/ NA games because we haven't broken out of the law that an MMO must be geared exclusively toward 14-17 year old boys.
I honestly think swtor will put the nail in the coffin on any potential western devoloped aaa true sandbox titles for quite some time. For the first time investors will be able to compare the sales of sandbox versus themepark over the same target demographic.
I remember reading swg topping out subs at one point at 1 mil, eve has around 400k.
The east is really the best hope for sandboxes style titles If swtor sells well and it looks like it will. Most investors will be re-affirmed with the mentality the sandboxes don't sell and themeparks do.
SWG never broke 450k. Eve hasn't broken 350 yet. Like it or not themepark has always sold more boxes than sandbox and Eve is the only sandbox that has retatined any decent playerbase (except UO however 13 year old games are a bit of a different breed due to market factors when they were released, I don't believe it would do so well if released today).
Sandbox players are simply going to have to show that there is a market for their particular game. There really is no other option.
I play Istaria, one of the most sandboxy MMO"s out there IMO.
Venge
Just because you don't like it doesn't mean it is bad.
Originally posted by VengeSunsoar Sandbox players are simply going to have to show that there is a market for their particular game. There really is no other option.
Unfortunately there simply aren't any well polished sandbox titles outright now, except maybe EVE (if you consider it a "sandbox") that can compete with most AAA titles. Just because some people like the sandbox genre doesn't mean they're going to stick with poorly developed games. If you want evidence that sandboxes can be extremely profitable profitable, look at a game like Minecraft- a big budget sandbox with that same philosophy of "do whatever the heck you want" on an MMO scale could be an amazing success.
If a sandbox game can sell well in Asia, it makes sense that the place it would get developed would be in Asia. They aren't going to do super well in the "West". It's been tried and done...outperformed time and again by theme parks and more casual game mechanics.
The population of asia is far greater than the population of the west, i doubt they really care too much about success in the west as long as its a success in asia. if they are successful in asia they are already made and success in the west is just a nice bonus.
Sandbox players are simply going to have to show that there is a market for their particular game. There really is no other option.
Unfortunately there simply aren't any well polished sandbox titles outright now, except maybe EVE (if you consider it a "sandbox") that can compete with most AAA titles. Just because some people like the sandbox genre doesn't mean they're going to stick with poorly developed games. If you want evidence that sandboxes can be extremely profitable profitable, look at a game like Minecraft- a big budget sandbox with that same philosophy of "do whatever the heck you want" on an MMO scale could be an amazing success.
I generally agree with the minecraft thing however it has some signifianct flaws (that may not be the right word). A lot of people downloaded minecraft so it is successfull, it made a lot of money so it is successfull. Howver most downloaded the free version and not the full trial - so that doesn't work in it's favor. Also it did not cost a lot to make - doesn't work in MMO's favor. And there is no real way for us to tell how many are currently playing. And finally is there a subscription, or was a just a free version and paid version?
So unfortunately all minecraft should tell a developer is, "This is interesting and there should be more study/investigation into it."
Venge
edit - it will take one of two things to change this cycle. Either an indie game makes a sandbox that everyone likes and becomes a smash hit, or one of the current games must somehow advertise/change their product so it is a smash hit. It is possible that a big company could make a AAA game, but I wouldn't hold my breath.
edit - and as someone in another thread pointed out the best way would be to look at why skyrim is successfull - can be darn easy/casual, virtually no death penalty and can be instant travel. That will take a lot of the eck factor out of them.
Just because you don't like it doesn't mean it is bad.
Lineage 2 clone huge weapons anime characters no thx im fed up with asian games just more advanced then L2.
Umm I'm pretty sure we've had plenty of "huge weapons" in western games. WoW anyone? WoW is a lot more cartoony while AA is more photorealistic. Even SWTOR is more cartoony and also has huge weapons. So I guess we could say the west likes cartoon character models and huge weapons.
Comments
Exactly. The western market is themepark based. Theres no major western developer making a sandbox mmo, that tells you something about the western fanbase.
As mmo fans you need to ask yourself what type of game do you like. You should ask yourself what type of game you like. The wrong question to ask is do you like asian mmo's or western mmo's.
Waiting for:EQ-Next, ArcheAge (not so much anymore)
Now Playing: N/A
Worst MMO: FFXIV
Favorite MMO: FFXI
Don't expect anything out of Snail Games on Darkness and Light. These are the people who bought the horrendous Dark & Light MMO made by Farlan. Since then they have done absolutely nothing with it. They've even removed any reference to it on their web sites.
No
Western MMO companies come to the realization that the market isnt there for big budget MMO sandbox games. If eastern companies can produce a game their players enjoy, plus have the added bonus of western sandbox gamers, it will be a nice win for them.
Eastern games have been known for grinding and PVP play, so part of that alone should appeal to some of the sandbox fans on this site.
It may not be entirely what western sandbox gamers want, but unlike Rysom, I think these games may see support from the western sandbox gamers.
Asking Devs to make AAA sandbox titles is like trying to get fine dining on a McDonalds dollar menu budget.
When was the last time a Western developer actually developed a big budget sandbox MMO though.
Don't really understand the notion that the West wouldn't like sandbox games. Wasn't GTAIV super popular?
I think it's more that they want to take the easy raod and just copy WoW. I bet if WoW was a sandbox game everyone would be making sandboxes right now.
Don't really understand the notion that the West wouldn't like sandbox games. Wasn't GTAIV super popular?
I think it's more that they want to take the easy raod and just copy WoW. I bet if WoW was a sandbox game everyone would be making sandboxes right now.
Neither road is 'easy'. Writing a sandbox game isn't significantly harder than writing a theme park game. It may even be easier. The only hard part is finding enough players who actually like the game to cover your costs and turn a profit.
Even without WoW in the picture, the trend towards them parks was well under way and would have continued. The only thing WoW added to the picture was the thought that you could release a game that wasn't finished and make a boatload of money.
I can not remember winning or losing a single debate on the internet.
I agree, Vanguard was the last MMO I played that I really liked...Too bad they didn't do a lot of things differently with it.
I disagree, I think it's easier to write something, if your going to keep people on a rail and know what they are going to do...
Do you think City of Heroes is Asian as well?
Economics can be a factor too.
In Asia they have more liquidity to experiment with and push innovation.
The West is in an economic downturn and investors want more "sure things" to invest in rather than taking too many risks. We probably won't see anything super in software experiments here unless something tests well in Asia first.
I used to play MMOs like you, but then I took an arrow to the knee.
Great Links thanks! or should I say , xie xie.
In anycase, I have no problem where the game is made as long as it provides the gameplay that I know I will be having fun in.
Looking foward to more Sandbox type games, it was about time.
Order of the Silver Star, OSS
ESKA, Playing MMORPG's since Ultima Online 1997 - Order of the Silver Serpent, Atlantic Shard
Yeah I know that Asian games were pretty bad in the early years but they are making strides in their quality as of late. Considering how god awful western games have become I really think the western developers will be over taken in the next few years by asian developers.
Velika: City of Wheels: Among the mortal races, the humans were the only one that never built cities or great empires; a curse laid upon them by their creator, Gidd, forced them to wander as nomads for twenty centuries...
If only they have a western publisher and don't rape the 'ports too badly. Unfortunately, that has rather often been a problem with Asian developed games.
Self-pity imprisons us in the walls of our own self-absorption. The whole world shrinks down to the size of our problem, and the more we dwell on it, the smaller we are and the larger the problem seems to grow.
If wow was a sandbox game it wouldnt be a fraction of what it is now. Its simple a lot of people like casual, easy mode games on rails. Thats mainstream and for some reason thats what the majority of mmo'ers like. COuple that with the fact that those types of games are much easier to make than a good sandbox, hence we get themepark after themepark.
Waiting for:EQ-Next, ArcheAge (not so much anymore)
Now Playing: N/A
Worst MMO: FFXIV
Favorite MMO: FFXI
To this very day people ridicule asian mmo players for dealing with grindy, party oriented eastern mmos. But it's that very mentality that has lead them to this point in the industry. For years BEFORE WoW, asian mmo players have been exposed to millions of mmo players that play hundreds of mmos that tried to mimic the success of Lineage I. Funny thing is I don't recall nearly the same amount of vemon directed toward their developers like I do when I read western mmo forums. Even with all the Lineage I "clones" they put out since then.
After Lineage I, Ragnarok was their second huge mmo from the iso viewpoint (again a copy of Lineage I gaming style). Again they took it in stride and honestly it was a pretty cool mmo. It built upon the Lineage I formula and deviated with it's own style. Also I doubt that they tore down other mmo players for playing it like you see here. It's the very reason gaming is such a huge phenomenon there, while we tend to still divide and conquer our collective gaming populace. They welcome an influx of new gamers, old, young, female, casual, hardcore or non traditional mmo players. I'm sure it didn't matter to them where the money was coming from, just so long as the genre was growing, even if it seemed that countless copies were bein released.
The countless mmos that asian developers crank out dwarves any amount we see developed here in the west. For every 10 mmos they release (even if 9 of 10 are considered crap) the west will release 1. So with this ratio they are learning a lot quicker which formulas don't work and what fomulas to try next. And now we are in the ebb of our mmo growing spurts and most of you here are calling it quits already, while I personally don't think we have seen enough western releases yet to even begin to mimic the evolution in the east, what we do have though is the financial ability (because of the growing eastern mmo population and capital + acceptance of different mmo revenue models) of the east to take more chances in bringing over their new formulas to the west at the same time they release them in the east.
It's a shame we as a western mmo playerbase are so behind the curve when it comes to mmos, that we cannot grasp the reason that the east is outpacing the west is because WoW and other good mmos we shun have MORE eastern players than western ones. And no, they are not all chinese gold farmers. They have already passed their WoW clone phase, if there was ever one to begin with. And are now coming full circle again with these so called "sandpark" hybrids. I wonder how long it will be for western players to realize you need MORE mmo players in the genre to spurt creativity, not less.
"Small minds talk about people, average minds talk about events, great minds talk about ideas."
ArchAge has potential to be revolutionary - However, I'm done following games. These things takes so long to develop, by the time they eventually do get released, you don't really care anymore.
I was following TERA for a while - Thought the combat would be the next big thing for me, now I don't really care for the game anymore.
It's funny, I loved Lineage 1, Ragnarok Online, and Lineage 2. Asian MMOs, please get back to your roots!!
I honestly think swtor will put the nail in the coffin on any potential western devoloped aaa true sandbox titles for quite some time. For the first time investors will be able to compare the sales of sandbox versus themepark over the same target demographic.
I remember reading swg topping out subs at one point at 1 mil, eve has around 400k.
The east is really the best hope for sandboxes style titles If swtor sells well and it looks like it will. Most investors will be re-affirmed with the mentality the sandboxes don't sell and themeparks do.
So yea the graphic looks good, but the potential in sandbox is no more than it has been in western mmo. The potential was always there in many games, but never materialized. So yes potential with asian games is there, but I assume with so many other games it will remain just that... potential and no more.
Asian MMOs will not make an impact on EU/ NA markets as long as EU/ NA markets hold to old standards. Asian developers don't make niche MMOs they combine multiple niches in to single MMOs and allow the community to self segregate. NA/ EU MMO's are built around single demographics and as such are much smaller in community and content. Asian MMOs dialate thier market in an effort to clone the "WoW effect" rather than "theme parking" them or in reality, niching them to a single demographic.
While you are correct, Asian MMOs are where sandbox will thrive, it won't transalte to better EU/ NA games because we haven't broken out of the law that an MMO must be geared exclusively toward 14-17 year old boys.
SWG never broke 450k. Eve hasn't broken 350 yet. Like it or not themepark has always sold more boxes than sandbox and Eve is the only sandbox that has retatined any decent playerbase (except UO however 13 year old games are a bit of a different breed due to market factors when they were released, I don't believe it would do so well if released today).
Sandbox players are simply going to have to show that there is a market for their particular game. There really is no other option.
I play Istaria, one of the most sandboxy MMO"s out there IMO.
Venge
Lineage 2 clone huge weapons anime characters no thx im fed up with asian games just more advanced then L2.
Hope to build full AMD system RYZEN/VEGA/AM4!!!
MB:Asus V De Luxe z77
CPU:Intell Icore7 3770k
GPU: AMD Fury X(waiting for BIG VEGA 10 or 11 HBM2?(bit unclear now))
MEMORY:Corsair PLAT.DDR3 1866MHZ 16GB
PSU:Corsair AX1200i
OS:Windows 10 64bit
Unfortunately there simply aren't any well polished sandbox titles outright now, except maybe EVE (if you consider it a "sandbox") that can compete with most AAA titles. Just because some people like the sandbox genre doesn't mean they're going to stick with poorly developed games. If you want evidence that sandboxes can be extremely profitable profitable, look at a game like Minecraft- a big budget sandbox with that same philosophy of "do whatever the heck you want" on an MMO scale could be an amazing success.
The population of asia is far greater than the population of the west, i doubt they really care too much about success in the west as long as its a success in asia. if they are successful in asia they are already made and success in the west is just a nice bonus.
I generally agree with the minecraft thing however it has some signifianct flaws (that may not be the right word). A lot of people downloaded minecraft so it is successfull, it made a lot of money so it is successfull. Howver most downloaded the free version and not the full trial - so that doesn't work in it's favor. Also it did not cost a lot to make - doesn't work in MMO's favor. And there is no real way for us to tell how many are currently playing. And finally is there a subscription, or was a just a free version and paid version?
So unfortunately all minecraft should tell a developer is, "This is interesting and there should be more study/investigation into it."
Venge
edit - it will take one of two things to change this cycle. Either an indie game makes a sandbox that everyone likes and becomes a smash hit, or one of the current games must somehow advertise/change their product so it is a smash hit. It is possible that a big company could make a AAA game, but I wouldn't hold my breath.
edit - and as someone in another thread pointed out the best way would be to look at why skyrim is successfull - can be darn easy/casual, virtually no death penalty and can be instant travel. That will take a lot of the eck factor out of them.
Umm I'm pretty sure we've had plenty of "huge weapons" in western games. WoW anyone? WoW is a lot more cartoony while AA is more photorealistic. Even SWTOR is more cartoony and also has huge weapons. So I guess we could say the west likes cartoon character models and huge weapons.
My theme song.