But ya, your assumptions are more dead on. Bioware had more then enough resources to make a hugely successfull space experience but thought, "meh, lets just throw a rail shooter out there". That sounds tons more reaonsable.
Pretty much.
I have not seen any indication of otherwise, nor some solid reasons this could not and is not the case.
But ya, your assumptions are more dead on. Bioware had more then enough resources to make a hugely successfull space experience but thought, "meh, lets just throw a rail shooter out there". That sounds tons more reaonsable.
Pretty much.
I have not seen any indication of otherwise, nor some solid reasons this could not and is not the case.
Well no.
there is absolutely no evidence that they could have made a fully robust space game at the same time as a full land game in the style that they wanted.
No game has done this. No game. And not your STO. EVE has yet to implement it and I would say it's the front runner for the game to implement both.
This is essentially gamers thinking that becasue bioware and ea along with lucas arts are huge companies that their pockets are deep enough to make the sun shine on command.
Like Skyrim? Need more content? Try my Skyrim mod "Godfred's Tomb."
Originally posted by Sovrath Originally posted by Loekii
Originally posted by jerlot65
But ya, your assumptions are more dead on. Bioware had more then enough resources to make a hugely successfull space experience but thought, "meh, lets just throw a rail shooter out there". That sounds tons more reaonsable.
Pretty much. I have not seen any indication of otherwise, nor some solid reasons this could not and is not the case. Well no. there is absolutely no evidence that they could have made a fully robust space game at the same time as a full land game in the style that they wanted. No game has done this. No game. And not your STO. EVE has yet to implement it and I would say it's the front runner for the game to implement both. This is essentially gamers thinking that becasue bioware and ea along with lucas arts are huge companies that their pockets are deep enough to make the sun shine on command.
I don't think Loekii is listening to us ;p He sees what he wants to see. Can't force someone to think differently. In the end, its all just opinions. Choose your battles n whatnot heh.
I sit on a man's back, choking him and making him carry me, and yet assure myself and others that I am very sorry for him and wish to ease his lot by all possible means - except by getting off his back.
I'm thinking this too. STO launch was horrid. The space travel was broken. The Klingons wasn't even in the game I dont' think, or if they were they only had a scant of content. The ground missions sucked and were buggy as hell.
I am certainly not saying STO was a great game by any means. I was even more critical of STO that I am of TOR -- and I was in testing from F&F.
The point is that as poor as an Space Misison Instance was in STO, it had more freedom of movement, had more active NPCs and objects, and even more 'abilities' than an instance of the TOR rail shooter.
Compmaring the 2 side by side:
Movement:
STO: 'Submarine Movement' with in Zone. Can move in most directions freely, and free to go in multiple directions if desired.
TOR: sliding through a pre-laid tube trail through Zone. Can slide up/down/right/left, but unable to change direction and must follow 'rail' path.
Enemy Ships:
STO: NPC Ships with AI and ability to attack from most directions
TOR: Ships that simply fly in and out along the tube
Ship Customization:
STO: Players can use multiple ships, change the look, and colors
TOR: 1 ship per class
Objects:
STO: Able to circumnavigate objects like asteroids, ships, bases, etc (ie 3D objects)
TOR: Most elements are painted on scolling back matt (ie 2D objects)
Mouse Look:
STO: 360' Mouse Look w/ zoom capabilities
TOR: Camera locked behind Ship in chase cam mod (might have zoom feature?)
Again, not saying STO is a good game, but it is pretty clear which system offers more features and abilities.
Claiming that just because STO sucked as a game, says nothing about amount of elements that their system contained compared to what TOR has.
But ya, your assumptions are more dead on. Bioware had more then enough resources to make a hugely successfull space experience but thought, "meh, lets just throw a rail shooter out there". That sounds tons more reaonsable.
Pretty much.
I have not seen any indication of otherwise, nor some solid reasons this could not and is not the case.
Well no.
there is absolutely no evidence that they could have made a fully robust space game at the same time as a full land game in the style that they wanted.
No game has done this. No game. And not your STO. EVE has yet to implement it and I would say it's the front runner for the game to implement both.
This is essentially gamers thinking that becasue bioware and ea along with lucas arts are huge companies that their pockets are deep enough to make the sun shine on command.
Where did I say Robust? I did not.
I said something along the lines of some of the features STO was able to accomplish.
Can you just simply present evidence of why BW could not have done that?
As much as I love SWTOR, the space combat aspect is a goddamn JOKE.
That negative feedback they were talking about?? I was probably one of the loudest, and that is not going to change any time soon, unless by some miracle we suddenly get a space system worthy of the game.
As much as I love SWTOR, the space combat aspect is a goddamn JOKE.
That negative feedback they were talking about?? I was probably one of the loudest, and that is not going to change any time soon, unless by some miracle we suddenly get a space system worthy of the game.
'Cause this Star Fox simulator does NOT cut it.
Yeah I remember when SWG launched with its awesome space combat....
As much as I love SWTOR, the space combat aspect is a goddamn JOKE.
That negative feedback they were talking about?? I was probably one of the loudest, and that is not going to change any time soon, unless by some miracle we suddenly get a space system worthy of the game.
'Cause this Star Fox simulator does NOT cut it.
Yeah I remember when SWG launched with its awesome space combat....
Honestly, I would prefer that Bioware go the same route, and launch with NO space, and then add a GOOD system after launch.
I'm thinking this too. STO launch was horrid. The space travel was broken. The Klingons wasn't even in the game I dont' think, or if they were they only had a scant of content. The ground missions sucked and were buggy as hell.
I am certainly not saying STO was a great game by any means. I was even more critical of STO that I am of TOR -- and I was in testing from F&F.
The point is that as poor as an Space Misison Instance was in STO, it had more freedom of movement, had more active NPCs and objects, and even more 'abilities' than an instance of the TOR rail shooter.
Actually, the point is:
When you are launching a game, do you release a game that complete with 95% of everything working as intended and properly for launch OR do you release a game that's 60% complete of everything working as intended for launch.. one of the broken/incomplete things the very thing you are mentioning... space combat?
Sorry but I'd rather have a game that launches with space combat as a minigame that can be improved later than to have a game that launches with their chief mechanic horribly scarred that runs people off, no matter what is listed "on paper" as in-game.
It's like that old BMW commercial used to say "Power without control is nothing." In this case, control of movement is nothing without quality content.
Plus, Cryptic didn't actually have to do much work really. The auction house (which any company will tell you is not easy to make/develop) is the EXACT SAME ONE as in Champion' Online, their other game. So there's dev time not used. Same with character models and such.
As much as I love SWTOR, the space combat aspect is a goddamn JOKE.
That negative feedback they were talking about?? I was probably one of the loudest, and that is not going to change any time soon, unless by some miracle we suddenly get a space system worthy of the game.
'Cause this Star Fox simulator does NOT cut it.
I'm with you on this.
Well not quite as passionate as you though as I don't mind the rail shooter as a nice distraction but overall would prefer a more open system. I can see the rail shooter getting old very very quick.
As much as I love SWTOR, the space combat aspect is a goddamn JOKE.
That negative feedback they were talking about?? I was probably one of the loudest, and that is not going to change any time soon, unless by some miracle we suddenly get a space system worthy of the game.
'Cause this Star Fox simulator does NOT cut it.
Yeah I remember when SWG launched with its awesome space combat....
Honestly, I would prefer that Bioware go the same route, and launch with NO space, and then add a GOOD system after launch.
I would rather have an entertaining mini game and then a good system afterwords that builds on the mini game.
Also I found a large portion of the wants from the space combat folks in this game to be rather unreasonable in the narritive that Bioware is trying to set up. If I were them I would just set up a Star Fox style arena PvP/PvE thing. The people who leave after that must never have been interested in the game itself and just what could have been.
Well I love the game EXCEPT for the space combat, I was uber excited when I got my ship. Couldnt wait to take it for a spin! You can prob see my reaction as I was unable to speed up, slow down, turn where I wanted to turn. It was the worst part of the game in my opinion. Ok I can understand if they wanted to keep it simple, but come on really?! Unless they take off the traing wheels and let me manuever the ship where I want, chase down the ships that I want to chase down. Instead all the ships just fly away from me if I dont shoot them in time.... Very disappointing.
So I will just skip that part of the game unless the fix it all together, which I doubt they will.
Originally posted by spawnlod Well I love the game EXCEPT for the space combat, I was uber excited when I got my ship. Couldnt wait to take it for a spin!
Yep, this is where you had the problem. You expected something that wasn't promised instead of reading people say "It's Star Fox" type combat.
Don't worry, that happens to lots of people when they make their own expectations. When I read I could be romatically involved with my companion, imagine my surprise when I didn't actually get to see the scenes of "getting busy" and later that we couldn't have kids.
I know my droid was upset because it really wanted to be the mother of my children.
But ya, your assumptions are more dead on. Bioware had more then enough resources to make a hugely successfull space experience but thought, "meh, lets just throw a rail shooter out there". That sounds tons more reaonsable.
Pretty much.
I have not seen any indication of otherwise, nor some solid reasons this could not and is not the case.
Well no.
there is absolutely no evidence that they could have made a fully robust space game at the same time as a full land game in the style that they wanted.
No game has done this. No game. And not your STO. EVE has yet to implement it and I would say it's the front runner for the game to implement both.
This is essentially gamers thinking that becasue bioware and ea along with lucas arts are huge companies that their pockets are deep enough to make the sun shine on command.
Where did I say Robust? I did not.
I said something along the lines of some of the features STO was able to accomplish.
Can you just simply present evidence of why BW could not have done that?
Well, I said robust. Not claiming you did, that was my word.
as far as your last statement "no" I can't. Can you?
None of us have access to all the expenditures of either cryptic, (what they actually created as opposed to what the original developer created) and bioware.
The only thing we can do is say "ok, who else in the mmo space as done something similiar".
We have STO, EVE, that other space game that is supposed to be similiar to EVE but has more shooter mechanics, SWG, planetside.
I'm sure there are others but those are the only games that come to mind.
of all those games, only EVE has put in time and effort to create a space game and then try to put in some semblance of a land game. As it stands they are creating a console game to do it (at the moment).
I don't think anyone is saying that because STO had issues then it's not possible.
but if you look at what STO did do, it doesn't feel like star wars. If anything it feels more like star trek. Which is a good thing.
Bioware basically said "here are our resources and we want to create space combat that feels like star wars but that has to fit into our budget.
Had they implemented what STO has it just wouldn't feel like star wars. What they have now is closer to what star wars space combat would feel like.
the issue is that it's a rail shooter. For the record I would have preferred a more dogfighter type of space game but their thrust is cinematic story telling. The examples I've seen sure fit in what the movies presented.
So that's what they created.
My sense is that they will add to this going forward. How much closer to a dog fighting space game they get remains to be seen.
so sure, they might have went the STO route but it just doesn't fit into the scope of what they want to do. You would have essentially had maps where players dog fight it out and I wonder if it would have been shooter style over tab target. Which would have felt very weird.
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Well, I said robust. Not claiming you did, that was my word.
as far as your last statement "no" I can't. Can you?
I cannot, as I do not know for sure, which I have admitted a few times already.
The difference is that I am offering unbaised evidence to support my opinion.
I am just not seeing a resaon why someone should just accept the excuse that BW could not do more due to limited resources, when there is evidence that questions the credbility of that excuse, and no evidence to back up the excuse.
Originally posted by Sovrath
Had they implemented what STO has it just wouldn't feel like star wars. What they have now is closer to what star wars space combat would feel like.
Why would it not feel like Star Wars?
Again, I am pointing out that you are foisting your opinion here, without any unbiased evidence to back up the statement. What examples do you have that shows that it could not feel like Star Wars?
Imo, they could have, following the what STO was able to do:
Remove the Rails (allow ships to fly like STO)
or Free up the Rails to be more like Rogue Squadron (ie Horizontal Free movement)
Create more 3D ships and objects (like STO)
Create 3D instance zone (like STO)
Add 3D Enemy NPCs (like STO)
Doing such with the same design theme for the current Space Instances (basically turning it from a 2D-ish tube shooter, into a more 3D expereince -- but not on the level of Xwing) would retain the same level of 'Star Wars' feeling - imo.
Can you present non-opinion reasons of why it would feel 'less like Star Wars'?
IGN: I was also curious about space combat and how that might evolve. How are the later game missions different from the early game ones and will they ever become sort of a multiplayer experience?
James Ohlen: We're going to continue to add missions. That's another thing that actually surprised us. While we knew that because we weren't doing a freeform X-wing versus Tie Fighter-style space game that we were going to get backlash, that didn't surprise us and obviously we got that feedback a long time ago. We've been working really hard to continue to improve the space game that we have and it's definitely become more popular with our fans with each [beta] iteration. The very last test we had it scored higher than it's ever scored before. I don't think it's going to win over people who want X-wing versus Tie Fighter but I do think people are going to find that it's very evocative of Star Wars and it's a fun activity when you want to take a break from questing. You can go to your own starship and involve yourself in some very awesome Rogue Squadron-y space combat. I can say that we do have a special project going on right now in regards to the space game that will expand the space game in a significant way, but that's not something that's coming right away.
So, they knew they were going to get backlash, and yet they did it anyway.
/facepalm
Who are these people?
Smart people who designed something everyone can enjoy and not just hardcore space sim jockeys who have a joystick sitting around
As much as I love SWTOR, the space combat aspect is a goddamn JOKE.
That negative feedback they were talking about?? I was probably one of the loudest, and that is not going to change any time soon, unless by some miracle we suddenly get a space system worthy of the game.
'Cause this Star Fox simulator does NOT cut it.
Yeah I remember when SWG launched with its awesome space combat....
Honestly, I would prefer that Bioware go the same route, and launch with NO space, and then add a GOOD system after launch.
I would rather have an entertaining mini game and then a good system afterwords that builds on the mini game.
Also I found a large portion of the wants from the space combat folks in this game to be rather unreasonable in the narritive that Bioware is trying to set up. If I were them I would just set up a Star Fox style arena PvP/PvE thing. The people who leave after that must never have been interested in the game itself and just what could have been.
Makes me kinda sick to think there is in any shape or form of substance to build off of whats there currently.
I was here when the massive thread yelling thank god that there was going to be space combat when they announced there would be but the space combat they got doesnt deserve a thank god, I dont think it deserves that at all.
Ill be waiting patienty though in the hopes that Bioware will spend some time and release a cutting edge space sim that will revolutionize space sims as we know it in mmos. They got the money to do it!
At some point you have to say, there is only so much that can be done. Id rather see some more nice stuff added into the steller core content that we have and know as SWTOR currently then they waste a ton of man hours on something great in space then to have it not do as well as they had hoped, its tight rope only Bioware can cross.
I think people are missing the point. It appears they have pretty much admitted that they will never take the space combat off rails. Not good news. Everyone keeps saying be patient...well he already said they bypassed xwing/tie fighter combat on purpose, no need to hold out any hope for the space combat in this game.
I think people are missing the point. It appears they have pretty much admitted that they will never take the space combat off rails. Not good news. Everyone keeps saying be patient...well he already said they bypassed xwing/tie fighter combat on purpose, no need to hold out any hope for the space combat in this game.
I think people are missing the point. It appears they have pretty much admitted that they will never take the space combat off rails. Not good news. Everyone keeps saying be patient...well he already said they bypassed xwing/tie fighter combat on purpose, no need to hold out any hope for the space combat in this game.
What the hell, why people keep saying otherwise?
I think because of the interpretation of the below part of the interview:
"I can say that we do have a special project going on right now in regards to the space game that will expand the space game in a significant way, but that's not something that's coming right away".
A special project implies it is something different to what they have already done or it wouldnt be special. Expand the space game in a significant way = a bigger space game that is significant.
They may not be changing the rail shooter thats in but that doesnt mean they can't add in other sim like elements. Time will tell.
I think people are missing the point. It appears they have pretty much admitted that they will never take the space combat off rails. Not good news. Everyone keeps saying be patient...well he already said they bypassed xwing/tie fighter combat on purpose, no need to hold out any hope for the space combat in this game.
Well they might take it off the rails to the point of being more like Rogue Squadron, but I agree we are not going to see Xwing full freedom -- unless the retail feedback mandates a change (and even then BW would have to agree).
I suspect it will simply just remain a rail shooter that some people like, and a lot of people just ignore.
Originally posted by brindleburn
They may not be changing the rail shooter thats in but that doesnt mean they can't add in other sim like elements. Time will tell.
I suspect he is refering to things like:
Customization of Ships (ie Color)
Co-Op Player Missions (think-split screen Mario Carts)
Bigger rewards for Space Missions or making Storylines that force you into space content (hope not)
Space game ranks and leader board type system (high score)
Using the Space Game framework to introduce Pod Racing, and Speeder Combat in the same rail style
Evolving the Rail Shooter into something closer and freer like Rogue Squadron
I am pretty sure we wont see another space system, and I think 'player house' on the Space ship would be considered seperate to the space game.
I think people are missing the point. It appears they have pretty much admitted that they will never take the space combat off rails. Not good news. Everyone keeps saying be patient...well he already said they bypassed xwing/tie fighter combat on purpose, no need to hold out any hope for the space combat in this game.
Why is that even bad thing? Whole open space PvP is stupid thing. It's a concept full of problems in itself not to mention those problems that happen when you try to stick it to game which major point is typical MMORPG group playing.
Stuff we likely to see as someone said before in this thread:
1) Group missions, instead of flying alone you have 3 other people shooting same targets. Easy to implement.
2) Planet missions, I'm not sure but I haven't seen flying in planet surface. Again easy to implement.
3) More stuff. We have now basic cannon and missiles? Add more stuff.
And when people ask why didn't they bring this and that from SWG, I like to remind them: BECAUSE SWG WAS F***ING FAILURE!1! It's like putting your hand on pile of shit and wish it's full of gold when you it out, it never is.
I cannot, as I do not know for sure, which I have admitted a few times already.
The difference is that I am offering unbaised evidence to support my opinion.
I am just not seeing a resaon why someone should just accept the excuse that BW could not do more due to limited resources, when there is evidence that questions the credbility of that excuse, and no evidence to back up the excuse.
You aren't providing unbiased evidence of anything. You have no idea what resources were required to make them. You also seem to be focusing on games that had space combat as a primary focus. If SWTOR were to move to a primarily Space focused game, then they would likely have the resources, but I don't see that happening.
Why is that even bad thing? Whole open space PvP is stupid thing. It's a concept full of problems in itself not to mention those problems that happen when you try to stick it to game which major point is typical MMORPG group playing.
Stuff we likely to see as someone said before in this thread:
1) Group missions, instead of flying alone you have 3 other people shooting same targets. Easy to implement.
2) Planet missions, I'm not sure but I haven't seen flying in planet surface. Again easy to implement.
3) More stuff. We have now basic cannon and missiles? Add more stuff.
Imo, I do not see why they cannot simply follow the way things generally work in the ground game, but replace the ground content with Space content:
Replace your 'Toon' (and group members' Toons), with yours (and their) Ships
Instead of 'running' around the zone, you fly around the zone
Instead of fighting 'guards', you fight Defensive Fighters/ships/turrets/bases
Instead of attacking a Big Boss Robot, you are attacking a Big Boss Star Destroyer
I am not looking for an X-wing flight sim at this point, but rather something that feels more like a Star Wars MMO (imo) --- and less like a cheesy arcade game that really feels out of place for an MMO.
I think that if they move more towards the direction Rogue Squadron - , it would be an improvement -- simply because there is a little more control given to the player (replace rails with horizontal free move), and would allow for Multiplayer and PvP.
Comments
Pretty much.
I have not seen any indication of otherwise, nor some solid reasons this could not and is not the case.
Well no.
there is absolutely no evidence that they could have made a fully robust space game at the same time as a full land game in the style that they wanted.
No game has done this. No game. And not your STO. EVE has yet to implement it and I would say it's the front runner for the game to implement both.
This is essentially gamers thinking that becasue bioware and ea along with lucas arts are huge companies that their pockets are deep enough to make the sun shine on command.
Godfred's Tomb Trailer: https://youtu.be/-nsXGddj_4w
Original Skyrim: https://www.nexusmods.com/skyrim/mods/109547
Serph toze kindly has started a walk-through. https://youtu.be/UIelCK-lldo
I have not seen any indication of otherwise, nor some solid reasons this could not and is not the case.
Well no.
there is absolutely no evidence that they could have made a fully robust space game at the same time as a full land game in the style that they wanted.
No game has done this. No game. And not your STO. EVE has yet to implement it and I would say it's the front runner for the game to implement both.
This is essentially gamers thinking that becasue bioware and ea along with lucas arts are huge companies that their pockets are deep enough to make the sun shine on command.
I don't think Loekii is listening to us ;p He sees what he wants to see. Can't force someone to think differently. In the end, its all just opinions. Choose your battles n whatnot heh.
I sit on a man's back, choking him and making him carry me, and yet assure myself and others that I am very sorry for him and wish to ease his lot by all possible means - except by getting off his back.
I am certainly not saying STO was a great game by any means. I was even more critical of STO that I am of TOR -- and I was in testing from F&F.
The point is that as poor as an Space Misison Instance was in STO, it had more freedom of movement, had more active NPCs and objects, and even more 'abilities' than an instance of the TOR rail shooter.
Compmaring the 2 side by side:
Movement:
STO: 'Submarine Movement' with in Zone. Can move in most directions freely, and free to go in multiple directions if desired.
TOR: sliding through a pre-laid tube trail through Zone. Can slide up/down/right/left, but unable to change direction and must follow 'rail' path.
Enemy Ships:
STO: NPC Ships with AI and ability to attack from most directions
TOR: Ships that simply fly in and out along the tube
Ship Customization:
STO: Players can use multiple ships, change the look, and colors
TOR: 1 ship per class
Objects:
STO: Able to circumnavigate objects like asteroids, ships, bases, etc (ie 3D objects)
TOR: Most elements are painted on scolling back matt (ie 2D objects)
Mouse Look:
STO: 360' Mouse Look w/ zoom capabilities
TOR: Camera locked behind Ship in chase cam mod (might have zoom feature?)
Again, not saying STO is a good game, but it is pretty clear which system offers more features and abilities.
Claiming that just because STO sucked as a game, says nothing about amount of elements that their system contained compared to what TOR has.
Where did I say Robust? I did not.
I said something along the lines of some of the features STO was able to accomplish.
Can you just simply present evidence of why BW could not have done that?
As much as I love SWTOR, the space combat aspect is a goddamn JOKE.
That negative feedback they were talking about?? I was probably one of the loudest, and that is not going to change any time soon, unless by some miracle we suddenly get a space system worthy of the game.
'Cause this Star Fox simulator does NOT cut it.
Yeah I remember when SWG launched with its awesome space combat....
Honestly, I would prefer that Bioware go the same route, and launch with NO space, and then add a GOOD system after launch.
When you are launching a game, do you release a game that complete with 95% of everything working as intended and properly for launch OR do you release a game that's 60% complete of everything working as intended for launch.. one of the broken/incomplete things the very thing you are mentioning... space combat?
Sorry but I'd rather have a game that launches with space combat as a minigame that can be improved later than to have a game that launches with their chief mechanic horribly scarred that runs people off, no matter what is listed "on paper" as in-game.
It's like that old BMW commercial used to say "Power without control is nothing." In this case, control of movement is nothing without quality content.
Plus, Cryptic didn't actually have to do much work really. The auction house (which any company will tell you is not easy to make/develop) is the EXACT SAME ONE as in Champion' Online, their other game. So there's dev time not used. Same with character models and such.
Bioware made everything from scratch, STO didn't.
"TO MICHAEL!"
I'm with you on this.
Well not quite as passionate as you though as I don't mind the rail shooter as a nice distraction but overall would prefer a more open system. I can see the rail shooter getting old very very quick.
I would rather have an entertaining mini game and then a good system afterwords that builds on the mini game.
Also I found a large portion of the wants from the space combat folks in this game to be rather unreasonable in the narritive that Bioware is trying to set up. If I were them I would just set up a Star Fox style arena PvP/PvE thing. The people who leave after that must never have been interested in the game itself and just what could have been.
Well I love the game EXCEPT for the space combat, I was uber excited when I got my ship. Couldnt wait to take it for a spin! You can prob see my reaction as I was unable to speed up, slow down, turn where I wanted to turn. It was the worst part of the game in my opinion. Ok I can understand if they wanted to keep it simple, but come on really?! Unless they take off the traing wheels and let me manuever the ship where I want, chase down the ships that I want to chase down. Instead all the ships just fly away from me if I dont shoot them in time.... Very disappointing.
So I will just skip that part of the game unless the fix it all together, which I doubt they will.
Don't worry, that happens to lots of people when they make their own expectations. When I read I could be romatically involved with my companion, imagine my surprise when I didn't actually get to see the scenes of "getting busy" and later that we couldn't have kids.
I know my droid was upset because it really wanted to be the mother of my children.
"TO MICHAEL!"
Well, I said robust. Not claiming you did, that was my word.
as far as your last statement "no" I can't. Can you?
None of us have access to all the expenditures of either cryptic, (what they actually created as opposed to what the original developer created) and bioware.
The only thing we can do is say "ok, who else in the mmo space as done something similiar".
We have STO, EVE, that other space game that is supposed to be similiar to EVE but has more shooter mechanics, SWG, planetside.
I'm sure there are others but those are the only games that come to mind.
of all those games, only EVE has put in time and effort to create a space game and then try to put in some semblance of a land game. As it stands they are creating a console game to do it (at the moment).
I don't think anyone is saying that because STO had issues then it's not possible.
but if you look at what STO did do, it doesn't feel like star wars. If anything it feels more like star trek. Which is a good thing.
Bioware basically said "here are our resources and we want to create space combat that feels like star wars but that has to fit into our budget.
Had they implemented what STO has it just wouldn't feel like star wars. What they have now is closer to what star wars space combat would feel like.
the issue is that it's a rail shooter. For the record I would have preferred a more dogfighter type of space game but their thrust is cinematic story telling. The examples I've seen sure fit in what the movies presented.
So that's what they created.
My sense is that they will add to this going forward. How much closer to a dog fighting space game they get remains to be seen.
so sure, they might have went the STO route but it just doesn't fit into the scope of what they want to do. You would have essentially had maps where players dog fight it out and I wonder if it would have been shooter style over tab target. Which would have felt very weird.
Godfred's Tomb Trailer: https://youtu.be/-nsXGddj_4w
Original Skyrim: https://www.nexusmods.com/skyrim/mods/109547
Serph toze kindly has started a walk-through. https://youtu.be/UIelCK-lldo
I think most people that dislike it, will do the same.
I cannot, as I do not know for sure, which I have admitted a few times already.
The difference is that I am offering unbaised evidence to support my opinion.
I am just not seeing a resaon why someone should just accept the excuse that BW could not do more due to limited resources, when there is evidence that questions the credbility of that excuse, and no evidence to back up the excuse.
Why would it not feel like Star Wars?
Again, I am pointing out that you are foisting your opinion here, without any unbiased evidence to back up the statement. What examples do you have that shows that it could not feel like Star Wars?
Imo, they could have, following the what STO was able to do:
Remove the Rails (allow ships to fly like STO)
or Free up the Rails to be more like Rogue Squadron (ie Horizontal Free movement)
Create more 3D ships and objects (like STO)
Create 3D instance zone (like STO)
Add 3D Enemy NPCs (like STO)
Doing such with the same design theme for the current Space Instances (basically turning it from a 2D-ish tube shooter, into a more 3D expereince -- but not on the level of Xwing) would retain the same level of 'Star Wars' feeling - imo.
Can you present non-opinion reasons of why it would feel 'less like Star Wars'?
Smart people who designed something everyone can enjoy and not just hardcore space sim jockeys who have a joystick sitting around
Makes me kinda sick to think there is in any shape or form of substance to build off of whats there currently.
I was here when the massive thread yelling thank god that there was going to be space combat when they announced there would be but the space combat they got doesnt deserve a thank god, I dont think it deserves that at all.
Ill be waiting patienty though in the hopes that Bioware will spend some time and release a cutting edge space sim that will revolutionize space sims as we know it in mmos. They got the money to do it!
At some point you have to say, there is only so much that can be done. Id rather see some more nice stuff added into the steller core content that we have and know as SWTOR currently then they waste a ton of man hours on something great in space then to have it not do as well as they had hoped, its tight rope only Bioware can cross.
What the hell, why people keep saying otherwise?
I think because of the interpretation of the below part of the interview:
"I can say that we do have a special project going on right now in regards to the space game that will expand the space game in a significant way, but that's not something that's coming right away".
A special project implies it is something different to what they have already done or it wouldnt be special. Expand the space game in a significant way = a bigger space game that is significant.
They may not be changing the rail shooter thats in but that doesnt mean they can't add in other sim like elements. Time will tell.
Well they might take it off the rails to the point of being more like Rogue Squadron, but I agree we are not going to see Xwing full freedom -- unless the retail feedback mandates a change (and even then BW would have to agree).
I suspect it will simply just remain a rail shooter that some people like, and a lot of people just ignore.
I suspect he is refering to things like:
Customization of Ships (ie Color)
Co-Op Player Missions (think-split screen Mario Carts)
Bigger rewards for Space Missions or making Storylines that force you into space content (hope not)
Space game ranks and leader board type system (high score)
Using the Space Game framework to introduce Pod Racing, and Speeder Combat in the same rail style
Evolving the Rail Shooter into something closer and freer like Rogue Squadron
I am pretty sure we wont see another space system, and I think 'player house' on the Space ship would be considered seperate to the space game.
Why is that even bad thing? Whole open space PvP is stupid thing. It's a concept full of problems in itself not to mention those problems that happen when you try to stick it to game which major point is typical MMORPG group playing.
Stuff we likely to see as someone said before in this thread:
1) Group missions, instead of flying alone you have 3 other people shooting same targets. Easy to implement.
2) Planet missions, I'm not sure but I haven't seen flying in planet surface. Again easy to implement.
3) More stuff. We have now basic cannon and missiles? Add more stuff.
And when people ask why didn't they bring this and that from SWG, I like to remind them: BECAUSE SWG WAS F***ING FAILURE!1! It's like putting your hand on pile of shit and wish it's full of gold when you it out, it never is.
You aren't providing unbiased evidence of anything. You have no idea what resources were required to make them. You also seem to be focusing on games that had space combat as a primary focus. If SWTOR were to move to a primarily Space focused game, then they would likely have the resources, but I don't see that happening.
Imo, I do not see why they cannot simply follow the way things generally work in the ground game, but replace the ground content with Space content:
Replace your 'Toon' (and group members' Toons), with yours (and their) Ships
Instead of 'running' around the zone, you fly around the zone
Instead of fighting 'guards', you fight Defensive Fighters/ships/turrets/bases
Instead of attacking a Big Boss Robot, you are attacking a Big Boss Star Destroyer
I am not looking for an X-wing flight sim at this point, but rather something that feels more like a Star Wars MMO (imo) --- and less like a cheesy arcade game that really feels out of place for an MMO.
I think that if they move more towards the direction Rogue Squadron -
, it would be an improvement -- simply because there is a little more control given to the player (replace rails with horizontal free move), and would allow for Multiplayer and PvP.