As for claiming that sandbox games are dead, and that there's no point in continuing their development, I would say that's an extremely short sighted projection, and doesn't take into account that some of the most popular single player games that have released in the last two years have been sandbox related titles (Minecraft, Red Dead Redemption, Skyrim to some extent). Are sandboxes suffering in the MMO platform? Absolutely, and as much as I would like to place the blame upon a bunch of morons who don't know any better, the fact of the matter is that themeparks are easier to enjoy, and easier to create. There's really no surprise to me, as much as I dislike it, that themeparks are overrunning the market, but to outwardly condemn sandboxes as being a thing of the past, I would like to point everyone to the various threads and news related articles regarding the death of PC gaming. According to several individuals, it would appear that PC gaming has been dead for years, and will never make a come back.
no option for 'NEITHER'? (in caps that looks like i spelt it wrong - did i?)
although i would probably play Reborn Galaxies just because for me it had way more varity and freedom.
King Lucas is fickle and maybe in a few years he will execute EAbioware lP license and Sir Sony will be recalled back to the kingdom of franchise marketing.
Wish Bioware would overthrow their EA overlords and make a Mass Effect Universe Online and then i would play that over both.
SWG was a horrid mess from day 1. running around looking fro holocrons (when you didnt even know how many you needed in the first place), endless killing of bulls and girraffs... ugh. the graphics were horrible. we were just young and less jaded.
swg is idealized by many who are still hanging on to their youth and remember the "good times' and overlooking the HORRID ones... oh.. perma death? yea. that was fun to waste a character because of some twitchy kid who was faster on the wasd keys than you were.
swg is dead. leave it where its best left... a fond memory. if you miss it that much, go youtube it. the graphics were laughable, and the grind was monotonous and boring.
www.insomniacsbar.com (my little bar that i own in florida)
I love SWotR but it could never be as much fun to me as pre cu SWG was .Such a pity they didnt redo the graphics and get rid of the bugs it is still the best sandbox type game i have ever played and i have played allmost everything out there.
Still SWotR is by far the best theampark MMO i have played since EQ
I find it funny that people think that it was this fantastic games that was ruined by the NGE. The NGE was installed because the game was failing. All the NGE did was kick a games that was already down.
For all of the sandbox gamers out there, you may support the game because of the format but I bet you've never really played it.
I played it, and believe it or not, I liked it. One of the best MMOs ever, pre-NGE. I don't know why you find it so hard to believe people have a different opinion than you, but the game wasn't even failing. It just wasn't doing as well as LA/SOE thought it could, if it were more of a themepark - and they turned out to be so very wrong.
If they wanted to fight the loss of subs, maybe they should've fixed the issues it had, and continued building on the game that it was, instead of destroying it with the NGE.
With WoW entering the picture, of course they were going to lose subs. Every MMO did. In the longrun though, they'd have done so much better, if they'd just kept expanding on the original. As the only sandbox MMO other than EVE, I bet it'd still be popular enough nowadays, that they wouldn't even have considered shutting it down.
When I want a single-player story, I'll play a single-player game. When I play an MMO, I want a massively multiplayer world.
I could really give a shit about the SWG vs. TOR debate. I never played SWG before the NGE, and when I did play it, it was a terrible, buggy, half-baked experience.
As for claiming that sandbox games are dead, and that there's no point in continuing their development, I would say that's an extremely short sighted projection, and doesn't take into account that some of the most popular single player games that have released in the last two years have been sandbox related titles (Minecraft, Red Dead Redemption, Skyrim to some extent). Are sandboxes suffering in the MMO platform? Absolutely, and as much as I would like to place the blame upon a bunch of morons who don't know any better, the fact of the matter is that themeparks are easier to enjoy, and easier to create. There's really no surprise to me, as much as I dislike it, that themeparks are overrunning the market, but to outwardly condemn sandboxes as being a thing of the past, I would like to point everyone to the various threads and news related articles regarding the death of PC gaming. According to several individuals, it would appear that PC gaming has been dead for years, and will never make a come back.
"Derrr look at sandbox games like Red Dead, GTA, Elder Scrolls, and Fallout. Sandboxes are so ruling!!!!!!!"
Yeah look at them, they play pretty much like a WoW or EQ. You do not alter the world, nor create content. The world is not a empty slate, just waiting to become a ghost town. You do not spend the entirety of game playing non combat professions.
SWG was a flaming POS. Rather than providing a good PVE gaming experience, Koster put the focus on non combat classes. Which is why he now no longer works in the MMO field. He wouldnt understand "fun" if it was a dog, and someone tied the proverbial pork chop around his neck. Farming money to buy the same items ad nauseum isnt the general persons idea of a good time.
Selling folks on a game which is simply about work isnt going to net ya a ton of subs. Sure it will pull in some of the diehards around here. For every Owen though, there are dozens that prefer the adventure role.
In the grand scheme of things, the parrots trumpting "sandbox sandbox" mean jack & shit to the population count of the MMO genre. Their numbers are puny, and thats why all they will ever have is memories....no one wants to donate the money to make them a game these days.
Asking Devs to make AAA sandbox titles is like trying to get fine dining on a McDonalds dollar menu budget.
I could really give a shit about the SWG vs. TOR debate. I never played SWG before the NGE, and when I did play it, it was a terrible, buggy, half-baked experience.
As for claiming that sandbox games are dead, and that there's no point in continuing their development, I would say that's an extremely short sighted projection, and doesn't take into account that some of the most popular single player games that have released in the last two years have been sandbox related titles (Minecraft, Red Dead Redemption, Skyrim to some extent). Are sandboxes suffering in the MMO platform? Absolutely, and as much as I would like to place the blame upon a bunch of morons who don't know any better, the fact of the matter is that themeparks are easier to enjoy, and easier to create. There's really no surprise to me, as much as I dislike it, that themeparks are overrunning the market, but to outwardly condemn sandboxes as being a thing of the past, I would like to point everyone to the various threads and news related articles regarding the death of PC gaming. According to several individuals, it would appear that PC gaming has been dead for years, and will never make a come back.
"Derrr look at sandbox games like Red Dead, GTA, Elder Scrolls, and Fallout. Sandboxes are so ruling!!!!!!!"
Yeah look at them, they play pretty much like a WoW or EQ. You do not alter the world, nor create content. The world is not a empty slate, just waiting to become a ghost town. You do not spend the entirety of game playing non combat professions.
SWG was a flaming POS. Rather than providing a good PVE gaming experience, Koster put the focus on non combat classes. Which is why he now no longer works in the MMO field. He wouldnt understand "fun" if it was a dog, and someone tied the proverbial pork chop around his neck. Farming money to buy the same items ad nauseum isnt the general persons idea of a good time.
Selling folks on a game which is simply about work isnt going to net ya a ton of subs. Sure it will pull in some of the diehards around here. For every Owen though, there are dozens that prefer the adventure role.
In the grand scheme of things, the parrots trumpting "sandbox sandbox" mean jack & shit to the population count of the MMO genre. Their numbers are puny, and thats why all they will ever have is memories....no one wants to donate the money to make them a game these days.
There are hundreds if not thousands of players playing sandboxes. ATITD is a great example. If I didn't have to write my own game I would still be putting in 8 hour days. They have 600 people in Egypt or maybe just River Plains so far. Sure its not huge but it is sandbox and making money.
FYI there are literally millions of players playing games that revolve entirely around the economy, they just aren't MMOs. Hell the Sims is a game about making your peeps pee and take a shower and take out the trash and its got a massive following. Its just no one has successfully combined it into an MMO at that level.
I could really give a shit about the SWG vs. TOR debate. I never played SWG before the NGE, and when I did play it, it was a terrible, buggy, half-baked experience.
As for claiming that sandbox games are dead, and that there's no point in continuing their development, I would say that's an extremely short sighted projection, and doesn't take into account that some of the most popular single player games that have released in the last two years have been sandbox related titles (Minecraft, Red Dead Redemption, Skyrim to some extent). Are sandboxes suffering in the MMO platform? Absolutely, and as much as I would like to place the blame upon a bunch of morons who don't know any better, the fact of the matter is that themeparks are easier to enjoy, and easier to create. There's really no surprise to me, as much as I dislike it, that themeparks are overrunning the market, but to outwardly condemn sandboxes as being a thing of the past, I would like to point everyone to the various threads and news related articles regarding the death of PC gaming. According to several individuals, it would appear that PC gaming has been dead for years, and will never make a come back.
"Derrr look at sandbox games like Red Dead, GTA, Elder Scrolls, and Fallout. Sandboxes are so ruling!!!!!!!"
Yeah look at them, they play pretty much like a WoW or EQ. You do not alter the world, nor create content. The world is not a empty slate, just waiting to become a ghost town. You do not spend the entirety of game playing non combat professions.
SWG was a flaming POS. Rather than providing a good PVE gaming experience, Koster put the focus on non combat classes. Which is why he now no longer works in the MMO field. He wouldnt understand "fun" if it was a dog, and someone tied the proverbial pork chop around his neck. Farming money to buy the same items ad nauseum isnt the general persons idea of a good time.
Selling folks on a game which is simply about work isnt going to net ya a ton of subs. Sure it will pull in some of the diehards around here. For every Owen though, there are dozens that prefer the adventure role.
In the grand scheme of things, the parrots trumpting "sandbox sandbox" mean jack & shit to the population count of the MMO genre. Their numbers are puny, and thats why all they will ever have is memories....no one wants to donate the money to make them a game these days.
Comedy of horror.
"This is life! We suffer and slave and expire. That's it!" -Bernard Black (Dylan Moran)
I could really give a shit about the SWG vs. TOR debate. I never played SWG before the NGE, and when I did play it, it was a terrible, buggy, half-baked experience.
As for claiming that sandbox games are dead, and that there's no point in continuing their development, I would say that's an extremely short sighted projection, and doesn't take into account that some of the most popular single player games that have released in the last two years have been sandbox related titles (Minecraft, Red Dead Redemption, Skyrim to some extent). Are sandboxes suffering in the MMO platform? Absolutely, and as much as I would like to place the blame upon a bunch of morons who don't know any better, the fact of the matter is that themeparks are easier to enjoy, and easier to create. There's really no surprise to me, as much as I dislike it, that themeparks are overrunning the market, but to outwardly condemn sandboxes as being a thing of the past, I would like to point everyone to the various threads and news related articles regarding the death of PC gaming. According to several individuals, it would appear that PC gaming has been dead for years, and will never make a come back.
"Derrr look at sandbox games like Red Dead, GTA, Elder Scrolls, and Fallout. Sandboxes are so ruling!!!!!!!"
Yeah look at them, they play pretty much like a WoW or EQ. You do not alter the world, nor create content. The world is not a empty slate, just waiting to become a ghost town. You do not spend the entirety of game playing non combat professions.
SWG was a flaming POS. Rather than providing a good PVE gaming experience, Koster put the focus on non combat classes. Which is why he now no longer works in the MMO field. He wouldnt understand "fun" if it was a dog, and someone tied the proverbial pork chop around his neck. Farming money to buy the same items ad nauseum isnt the general persons idea of a good time.
Selling folks on a game which is simply about work isnt going to net ya a ton of subs. Sure it will pull in some of the diehards around here. For every Owen though, there are dozens that prefer the adventure role.
In the grand scheme of things, the parrots trumpting "sandbox sandbox" mean jack & shit to the population count of the MMO genre. Their numbers are puny, and thats why all they will ever have is memories....no one wants to donate the money to make them a game these days.
There are hundreds if not thousands of players playing sandboxes. ATITD is a great example. If I didn't have to write my own game I would still be putting in 8 hour days. They have 600 people in Egypt or maybe just River Plains so far. Sure its not huge but it is sandbox and making money.
FYI there are literally millions of players playing games that revolve entirely around the economy, they just aren't MMOs. Hell the Sims is a game about making your peeps pee and take a shower and take out the trash and its got a massive following. Its just no one has successfully combined it into an MMO at that level.
Then make a game, and capitolize on this vast untapped market eh?
Like you said....hundreds....maybe even thousands of folks want sandboxes. Hundred of thousands, and for some games millions, play themeparks.
It isnt even close what total sub numbers are for the two genres here in NA. Rather than accept that, you sandboxers keep flapping the yap about how wonderful your prefered genre is, and how there is no doubt "soon it will be number 1".
No it wont. A new SWG, launching at the same time as TOR, would fold just as fast as it did originally. Owen doesnt sell boxes in the MMO realm. Sims, Minecraft, and a plethora of other titles await you in a different genre. They just dont work in this one.
Asking Devs to make AAA sandbox titles is like trying to get fine dining on a McDonalds dollar menu budget.
I could really give a shit about the SWG vs. TOR debate. I never played SWG before the NGE, and when I did play it, it was a terrible, buggy, half-baked experience.
As for claiming that sandbox games are dead, and that there's no point in continuing their development, I would say that's an extremely short sighted projection, and doesn't take into account that some of the most popular single player games that have released in the last two years have been sandbox related titles (Minecraft, Red Dead Redemption, Skyrim to some extent). Are sandboxes suffering in the MMO platform? Absolutely, and as much as I would like to place the blame upon a bunch of morons who don't know any better, the fact of the matter is that themeparks are easier to enjoy, and easier to create. There's really no surprise to me, as much as I dislike it, that themeparks are overrunning the market, but to outwardly condemn sandboxes as being a thing of the past, I would like to point everyone to the various threads and news related articles regarding the death of PC gaming. According to several individuals, it would appear that PC gaming has been dead for years, and will never make a come back.
"Derrr look at sandbox games like Red Dead, GTA, Elder Scrolls, and Fallout. Sandboxes are so ruling!!!!!!!"
Yeah look at them, they play pretty much like a WoW or EQ. You do not alter the world, nor create content. The world is not a empty slate, just waiting to become a ghost town. You do not spend the entirety of game playing non combat professions.
SWG was a flaming POS. Rather than providing a good PVE gaming experience, Koster put the focus on non combat classes. Which is why he now no longer works in the MMO field. He wouldnt understand "fun" if it was a dog, and someone tied the proverbial pork chop around his neck. Farming money to buy the same items ad nauseum isnt the general persons idea of a good time.
Selling folks on a game which is simply about work isnt going to net ya a ton of subs. Sure it will pull in some of the diehards around here. For every Owen though, there are dozens that prefer the adventure role.
In the grand scheme of things, the parrots trumpting "sandbox sandbox" mean jack & shit to the population count of the MMO genre. Their numbers are puny, and thats why all they will ever have is memories....no one wants to donate the money to make them a game these days.
Comedy of horror.
The comedy of horror is listening to folks whine that AAA devs should put out money to cater to a pathetically small fan base.
Asking Devs to make AAA sandbox titles is like trying to get fine dining on a McDonalds dollar menu budget.
I could really give a shit about the SWG vs. TOR debate. I never played SWG before the NGE, and when I did play it, it was a terrible, buggy, half-baked experience.
As for claiming that sandbox games are dead, and that there's no point in continuing their development, I would say that's an extremely short sighted projection, and doesn't take into account that some of the most popular single player games that have released in the last two years have been sandbox related titles (Minecraft, Red Dead Redemption, Skyrim to some extent). Are sandboxes suffering in the MMO platform? Absolutely, and as much as I would like to place the blame upon a bunch of morons who don't know any better, the fact of the matter is that themeparks are easier to enjoy, and easier to create. There's really no surprise to me, as much as I dislike it, that themeparks are overrunning the market, but to outwardly condemn sandboxes as being a thing of the past, I would like to point everyone to the various threads and news related articles regarding the death of PC gaming. According to several individuals, it would appear that PC gaming has been dead for years, and will never make a come back.
"Derrr look at sandbox games like Red Dead, GTA, Elder Scrolls, and Fallout. Sandboxes are so ruling!!!!!!!"
Yeah look at them, they play pretty much like a WoW or EQ. You do not alter the world, nor create content. The world is not a empty slate, just waiting to become a ghost town. You do not spend the entirety of game playing non combat professions.
SWG was a flaming POS. Rather than providing a good PVE gaming experience, Koster put the focus on non combat classes. Which is why he now no longer works in the MMO field. He wouldnt understand "fun" if it was a dog, and someone tied the proverbial pork chop around his neck. Farming money to buy the same items ad nauseum isnt the general persons idea of a good time.
Selling folks on a game which is simply about work isnt going to net ya a ton of subs. Sure it will pull in some of the diehards around here. For every Owen though, there are dozens that prefer the adventure role.
In the grand scheme of things, the parrots trumpting "sandbox sandbox" mean jack & shit to the population count of the MMO genre. Their numbers are puny, and thats why all they will ever have is memories....no one wants to donate the money to make them a game these days.
Comedy of horror.
The comedy of horror is listening to folks whine that AAA devs should put out money to cater to a pathetically small fan base.
It's really not as small as you're trying to make it seem, and it's difficult to take someone seriously who posts in the manner that you do. Whining? How about sharing an opinion on a public message board, most of which you're not even directly responding to. No, what you're responding to is the general argument for sandboxes, and dislike it all you may, it doesn't make bad information correct.
"This is life! We suffer and slave and expire. That's it!" -Bernard Black (Dylan Moran)
I loved SWG, pre NGE, tolerated the CU. But I chose SWTOR the way it is now. Bioware did an awesome job in my opinion. Its exactly what they wanted. They have said for years that they were focusing on the story. Not the Sandbox, Im sorry but SWG is DEAD. Its not coming back {mod edit}. So all this comparing the 2 needs to stop. There not the same game get over it. If you dont like story then move on this isnt the game for you.
I think there's no genre or style of game that's "never going to be popular". It's implementation that matters most, style and features really take a backseat to implementation when you're talking about the success of a game, or even how fun it is.
Many say this, and I agree: If a company like Blizzard, Bioware or Bethesda with the financial and designer chops to do it made a high quality sandbox game, it'd most probably be popular. Not WOW-popular or maybe not even as popular as SWTOR is going to be, but I'm willing to bet it can break something like 500K players.
I guess the resentment from a lot of players has to do with this. SOE dropped the ball with SWG on many levels, but did succeed quite well in others, and those act like an eternal teaser for things to come that never have. Now nobody with any amount of money that matters is going near the concept.
I think there's no genre or style of game that's "never going to be popular". It's implementation that matters most, style and features really take a backseat to implementation when you're talking about the success of a game, or even how fun it is.
Many say this, and I agree: If a company like Blizzard, Bioware or Bethesda with the financial and designer chops to do it made a high quality sandbox game, it'd most probably be popular. Not WOW-popular or maybe not even as popular as SWTOR is going to be, but I'm willing to bet it can break something like 500K players.
I guess the resentment from a lot of players has to do with this. SOE dropped the ball with SWG on many levels, but did succeed quite well in others, and those act like an eternal teaser for things to come that never have. Now nobody with any amount of money that matters is going near the concept.
OK you say they are bummed....
It matters to the rest of us for what reason exactly? A poll on MMORPG isnt exactly a scientific breakdown. It is simply another way to cry "we wanted the PRECioUs". They had their game, it failed, end of story.
Themepark gamers, nor BW, had anything to do with SWG. Yet we get drawn into these folks rants, cause they cant let go, and simply let those wishing for TOR/any other themepark enjoy their game. This shit has been going on since Nov 05.
To give the OP credit, at least this thread is in the general forums. Typically we see this clusterfuck stuff in the TOR area.
Sandboxers werent owed a new SWG. Sandboxers didnt get a new SWG. Lastly, sandboxers need to STFU about SWG2 as it isnt happening.
Asking Devs to make AAA sandbox titles is like trying to get fine dining on a McDonalds dollar menu budget.
You act as if SWG..or any other game has been truly innovative.
Hmm I'm pretty sure that pre-NGE SWG's class system was pretty "trully innovative" - never has seen a flexible tree system like that, still haven't seen it since.
SWG's manufacturing, crafting, mat quality and experiementation system was pretty innovative. SWG's pet system was pretty innovative.
There was more than a few things that SWG has brought innovation on. The only systems that was NOT innovative was the combat, the missions and quests - those were mundane to the core.
That's said, there were innovations in swtor as well imo - the more in depth companion system than any other game was pretty innovative. The flashpoints idea was pretty decent.
There are innovations in both games. It is just that people are obsessed in ripping on them that they only see the "same-old" aspects and didn't see the rest, most likely they DON'T try to see the rest anyways because they try to play every god-damn game like WoW
TL:DR version - User error more than the developers'.
SWG 1.5 with better graphics, preNGE and please not from SOE could have been a truly amazing game.
We need a MMORPG Cataclysm asap, finish the dark age of MMORPGS now!
"Everything you're bitching about is wrong. People don't have the time to invest in corpse runs, impossible zones, or long winded quests. Sometimes, they just want to pop on and play." "Then maybe MMORPGs aren't for you."
No matter how many polls are made, SWG will never come back face it. Its over, it never had any legs the first time at launch. If a Japanese MMORPG, FFXI which was out before it can kick the pants off SWG, there is not much else to say. FFXI has 500k subscriptions to this day. While SWG in its highest peak was 300k if that at all.
No regular MMO gamer really wanted SWG, the numbers speak for itself.
SWTOR will have 600k - 1.5 mil subscription base which SWG could only dream of as a MMO.
SWTOR is actually closer to sticking to Star Wars lore and thats a good thing.
Well, I would still be playing Pre-CU/NGE SWG if it was still around. Ever since my departure from SWG, or to be more exact, SOE screwing the game over, I haven't been able to find an MMORPG "home" ever since. The game mechanics I liked, but another unrecoverable loss was the truly great community we once had.
"I have only two out of my company and 20 out of some other company. We need support, but it is almost suicide to try to get it here as we are swept by machine gun fire and a constant barrage is on us. I have no one on my left and only a few on my right. I will hold." (First Lieutenant Clifton B. Cates, US Marine Corps, Soissons, 19 July 1918)
No matter how many polls are made, SWG will never come back face it. Its over, it never had any legs the first time at launch. If a Japanese MMORPG, FFXI which was out before it can kick the pants off SWG, there is not much else to say. FFXI has 500k subscriptions to this day. While SWG in its highest peak was 300k if that at all.
No regular MMO gamer really wanted SWG, the numbers speak for itself.
SWTOR will have 600k - 1.5 mil subscription base which SWG could only dream of as a MMO.
SWTOR is actually closer to sticking to Star Wars lore and thats a good thing.
"I have only two out of my company and 20 out of some other company. We need support, but it is almost suicide to try to get it here as we are swept by machine gun fire and a constant barrage is on us. I have no one on my left and only a few on my right. I will hold." (First Lieutenant Clifton B. Cates, US Marine Corps, Soissons, 19 July 1918)
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Play as your fav retro characters: cnd-online.net. My site: www.lysle.net. Blog: creatingaworld.blogspot.com.
swg pre cu all the way.
This is the part where cameron goes berserk!
no option for 'NEITHER'? (in caps that looks like i spelt it wrong - did i?)
although i would probably play Reborn Galaxies just because for me it had way more varity and freedom.
King Lucas is fickle and maybe in a few years he will execute EAbioware lP license and Sir Sony will be recalled back to the kingdom of franchise marketing.
Wish Bioware would overthrow their EA overlords and make a Mass Effect Universe Online and then i would play that over both.
SWG was a horrid mess from day 1. running around looking fro holocrons (when you didnt even know how many you needed in the first place), endless killing of bulls and girraffs... ugh. the graphics were horrible. we were just young and less jaded.
swg is idealized by many who are still hanging on to their youth and remember the "good times' and overlooking the HORRID ones... oh.. perma death? yea. that was fun to waste a character because of some twitchy kid who was faster on the wasd keys than you were.
swg is dead. leave it where its best left... a fond memory. if you miss it that much, go youtube it. the graphics were laughable, and the grind was monotonous and boring.
www.insomniacsbar.com (my little bar that i own in florida)
I love SWotR but it could never be as much fun to me as pre cu SWG was .Such a pity they didnt redo the graphics and get rid of the bugs it is still the best sandbox type game i have ever played and i have played allmost everything out there.
Still SWotR is by far the best theampark MMO i have played since EQ
I played it, and believe it or not, I liked it. One of the best MMOs ever, pre-NGE. I don't know why you find it so hard to believe people have a different opinion than you, but the game wasn't even failing. It just wasn't doing as well as LA/SOE thought it could, if it were more of a themepark - and they turned out to be so very wrong.
If they wanted to fight the loss of subs, maybe they should've fixed the issues it had, and continued building on the game that it was, instead of destroying it with the NGE.
With WoW entering the picture, of course they were going to lose subs. Every MMO did. In the longrun though, they'd have done so much better, if they'd just kept expanding on the original. As the only sandbox MMO other than EVE, I bet it'd still be popular enough nowadays, that they wouldn't even have considered shutting it down.
When I want a single-player story, I'll play a single-player game. When I play an MMO, I want a massively multiplayer world.
"Derrr look at sandbox games like Red Dead, GTA, Elder Scrolls, and Fallout. Sandboxes are so ruling!!!!!!!"
Yeah look at them, they play pretty much like a WoW or EQ. You do not alter the world, nor create content. The world is not a empty slate, just waiting to become a ghost town. You do not spend the entirety of game playing non combat professions.
SWG was a flaming POS. Rather than providing a good PVE gaming experience, Koster put the focus on non combat classes. Which is why he now no longer works in the MMO field. He wouldnt understand "fun" if it was a dog, and someone tied the proverbial pork chop around his neck. Farming money to buy the same items ad nauseum isnt the general persons idea of a good time.
Selling folks on a game which is simply about work isnt going to net ya a ton of subs. Sure it will pull in some of the diehards around here. For every Owen though, there are dozens that prefer the adventure role.
In the grand scheme of things, the parrots trumpting "sandbox sandbox" mean jack & shit to the population count of the MMO genre. Their numbers are puny, and thats why all they will ever have is memories....no one wants to donate the money to make them a game these days.
Asking Devs to make AAA sandbox titles is like trying to get fine dining on a McDonalds dollar menu budget.
There are hundreds if not thousands of players playing sandboxes. ATITD is a great example. If I didn't have to write my own game I would still be putting in 8 hour days. They have 600 people in Egypt or maybe just River Plains so far. Sure its not huge but it is sandbox and making money.
FYI there are literally millions of players playing games that revolve entirely around the economy, they just aren't MMOs. Hell the Sims is a game about making your peeps pee and take a shower and take out the trash and its got a massive following. Its just no one has successfully combined it into an MMO at that level.
Comedy of horror.
"This is life! We suffer and slave and expire. That's it!" -Bernard Black (Dylan Moran)
Then make a game, and capitolize on this vast untapped market eh?
Like you said....hundreds....maybe even thousands of folks want sandboxes. Hundred of thousands, and for some games millions, play themeparks.
It isnt even close what total sub numbers are for the two genres here in NA. Rather than accept that, you sandboxers keep flapping the yap about how wonderful your prefered genre is, and how there is no doubt "soon it will be number 1".
No it wont. A new SWG, launching at the same time as TOR, would fold just as fast as it did originally. Owen doesnt sell boxes in the MMO realm. Sims, Minecraft, and a plethora of other titles await you in a different genre. They just dont work in this one.
Asking Devs to make AAA sandbox titles is like trying to get fine dining on a McDonalds dollar menu budget.
The comedy of horror is listening to folks whine that AAA devs should put out money to cater to a pathetically small fan base.
Asking Devs to make AAA sandbox titles is like trying to get fine dining on a McDonalds dollar menu budget.
It's really not as small as you're trying to make it seem, and it's difficult to take someone seriously who posts in the manner that you do. Whining? How about sharing an opinion on a public message board, most of which you're not even directly responding to. No, what you're responding to is the general argument for sandboxes, and dislike it all you may, it doesn't make bad information correct.
"This is life! We suffer and slave and expire. That's it!" -Bernard Black (Dylan Moran)
I loved SWG, pre NGE, tolerated the CU. But I chose SWTOR the way it is now. Bioware did an awesome job in my opinion. Its exactly what they wanted. They have said for years that they were focusing on the story. Not the Sandbox, Im sorry but SWG is DEAD. Its not coming back {mod edit}. So all this comparing the 2 needs to stop. There not the same game get over it. If you dont like story then move on this isnt the game for you.
I think there's no genre or style of game that's "never going to be popular". It's implementation that matters most, style and features really take a backseat to implementation when you're talking about the success of a game, or even how fun it is.
Many say this, and I agree: If a company like Blizzard, Bioware or Bethesda with the financial and designer chops to do it made a high quality sandbox game, it'd most probably be popular. Not WOW-popular or maybe not even as popular as SWTOR is going to be, but I'm willing to bet it can break something like 500K players.
I guess the resentment from a lot of players has to do with this. SOE dropped the ball with SWG on many levels, but did succeed quite well in others, and those act like an eternal teaser for things to come that never have. Now nobody with any amount of money that matters is going near the concept.
I'll take the original SWG as it was, no tinkering needed. I played from day 1 and there was still so much I didn't get to do before it was ruined.
OK you say they are bummed....
It matters to the rest of us for what reason exactly? A poll on MMORPG isnt exactly a scientific breakdown. It is simply another way to cry "we wanted the PRECioUs". They had their game, it failed, end of story.
Themepark gamers, nor BW, had anything to do with SWG. Yet we get drawn into these folks rants, cause they cant let go, and simply let those wishing for TOR/any other themepark enjoy their game. This shit has been going on since Nov 05.
To give the OP credit, at least this thread is in the general forums. Typically we see this clusterfuck stuff in the TOR area.
Sandboxers werent owed a new SWG. Sandboxers didnt get a new SWG. Lastly, sandboxers need to STFU about SWG2 as it isnt happening.
Asking Devs to make AAA sandbox titles is like trying to get fine dining on a McDonalds dollar menu budget.
Looks like SWG2 is winning this pole.
I just want to play my TKM medic again. Is that too much to ask??
The Brave Do Not Fear The Grave
Hmm I'm pretty sure that pre-NGE SWG's class system was pretty "trully innovative" - never has seen a flexible tree system like that, still haven't seen it since.
SWG's manufacturing, crafting, mat quality and experiementation system was pretty innovative. SWG's pet system was pretty innovative.
There was more than a few things that SWG has brought innovation on. The only systems that was NOT innovative was the combat, the missions and quests - those were mundane to the core.
That's said, there were innovations in swtor as well imo - the more in depth companion system than any other game was pretty innovative. The flashpoints idea was pretty decent.
There are innovations in both games. It is just that people are obsessed in ripping on them that they only see the "same-old" aspects and didn't see the rest, most likely they DON'T try to see the rest anyways because they try to play every god-damn game like WoW
TL:DR version - User error more than the developers'.
SWG 1.5 with better graphics, preNGE and please not from SOE could have been a truly amazing game.
We need a MMORPG Cataclysm asap, finish the dark age of MMORPGS now!
"Everything you're bitching about is wrong. People don't have the time to invest in corpse runs, impossible zones, or long winded quests. Sometimes, they just want to pop on and play."
"Then maybe MMORPGs aren't for you."
SWG was like having a second job while SWTOR is all about having fun. SWTOR anyday SWG was a huge waste of my damn time!
No matter how many polls are made, SWG will never come back face it. Its over, it never had any legs the first time at launch. If a Japanese MMORPG, FFXI which was out before it can kick the pants off SWG, there is not much else to say. FFXI has 500k subscriptions to this day. While SWG in its highest peak was 300k if that at all.
No regular MMO gamer really wanted SWG, the numbers speak for itself.
SWTOR will have 600k - 1.5 mil subscription base which SWG could only dream of as a MMO.
SWTOR is actually closer to sticking to Star Wars lore and thats a good thing.
Playing at this time: DCUO
Waiting for: SWTOR
Well, I would still be playing Pre-CU/NGE SWG if it was still around. Ever since my departure from SWG, or to be more exact, SOE screwing the game over, I haven't been able to find an MMORPG "home" ever since. The game mechanics I liked, but another unrecoverable loss was the truly great community we once had.
"I have only two out of my company and 20 out of some other company. We need support, but it is almost suicide to try to get it here as we are swept by machine gun fire and a constant barrage is on us. I have no one on my left and only a few on my right. I will hold." (First Lieutenant Clifton B. Cates, US Marine Corps, Soissons, 19 July 1918)
"I have only two out of my company and 20 out of some other company. We need support, but it is almost suicide to try to get it here as we are swept by machine gun fire and a constant barrage is on us. I have no one on my left and only a few on my right. I will hold." (First Lieutenant Clifton B. Cates, US Marine Corps, Soissons, 19 July 1918)
swg reborn ofcourse but that's in a different life.