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  • maxiime223maxiime223 Member Posts: 94

    Originally posted by Ubermeh

    Originally posted by Zecktorin


    Originally posted by DexterMMO

    Gw2 will be superior to gw1... Its a real mmo, not a quest hub co-op.

    Dosen't mean it will do any better.... 

    I wouldn't say GW1 was a failure, would you?

    GW2 will have Tons of players but I don't think it will be the SWTOR killer.

    Actually, SWTOR will kill itself...

  • cali59cali59 Member Posts: 1,634

    Originally posted by SuperXero89

    I don't think there's anything wrong with expecting a game to have a hook to keep me playing.  In many ways, playing an MMORPG is representative of living a virtual life.  They're not like single player games where you can play for a month, see all the content and then wait for the next DLC to be released.  MMORPGs are seen as games that you can play exclusively for years without ever needing to purchase anything else. That said, people continue to play because of character progression.  "Gear grinding" is only one way to entice people to play.  Sandbox games such as UO, SWG, and EVE don't/didn't have raiding in a traditional sense, yet players had other motivations to log in every day once they had reached the sandbox equivalent of endgame.  I see a lot of talk from GW2 fans and Anet about how sick they are of the soul sucking gear grinding treadmill that plagues themepark MMORPGs, but unlike sandbox developers, I see no system in place to make up for the lack of a gear grind.  Rather, they seem as if they'd rather you treat playing GW2 like you play a single player game--pick it up for awhile then quit playing until the next content update.

    You sound like you have realistic expectations for GW2.  GW2 may appeal to me if it releases while I'm enduring a full course load at school, but otherwise I'm not sure if it's 100% of what I want out of an MMORPG.  The people that need to be concerned are those that fully intend to play Guild Wars 2 as their only MMORPG for the foreseeable future.  The game won't have serious longevity for those people unless there is some kind of hook involved to keep people playing.  I haven't seen a lot from Anet that dispells my worries that GW2 will be light on the PvE end of the spectrum.

     This might sound funny coming from someone who listed all of GW2's innovations individually (on a dare), but GW2 is really a game which is more than the sum of its parts.  It's a game that's not just random features, it's a philosophically different game than traditional MMOs.

    The only things that GW2 is missing from a traditional MMO are instanced raiding and gear progression.  Why?  It's not because they just didn't feel like it or couldn't do it with this combat system.  It's because they don't want the game to be about the carrot.  Some people enjoy raiding, but for the most part it's just that it's the only way to get gear.  You have to show up for 12-16 hours a week and spend even more time preparing for that.  It's like a 2nd job.

    GW2 is saying that you NEVER have to be on anybody else's schedule.  Instead of raiding because you have to, pick anything about GW2 that you think is fun and do that instead.  There will be ways to better your character if you want.  You can get different types of gear or vanity skins, titles, achievements, collect all the traits and skills.  GW1 had some absolutely ridiculous optional grinds for titles.  I'm sure there will be more of the same in GW2.

    It's all about having fun.  If you want to PVE in the open world, hang out in town, make friends, do dungeons, craft, do minigames, collect traits, explore, look for easter eggs, make new toons to see new personal stories, grind achievements, world PVP, structured PVP, help lowbies, you totally can, whatever it is.  If you're not finding it fun, don't log in because you need to be somewhere.  Just do something else instead.

    It's almost like any other feature of a game.  If you like sandboxes, you don't play a themepark.  If you NEED to have gear progression and raiding to make you enjoy the game, then this isn't the game for you.  But I think you really have to step back and see what they're trying to accomplish with this game and think that it's ok to have an extra 12-16 hours a week to do whatever you feel like doing.

    "Gamers will no longer buy the argument that every MMO requires a subscription fee to offset server and bandwidth costs. It's not true – you know it, and they know it." -Jeff Strain, co-founder of ArenaNet, 2007

  • tank017tank017 Member Posts: 2,192

    Originally posted by Ubermeh

    Originally posted by Zecktorin


    Originally posted by DexterMMO

    Gw2 will be superior to gw1... Its a real mmo, not a quest hub co-op.

    Dosen't mean it will do any better.... 

    I wouldn't say GW1 was a failure, would you?

    GW2 will have Tons of players but I don't think it will be the SWTOR killer.

    Now were talking about SWTOR killers?!?!

     

    *rolls eyes so hard they roll out of his head*

  • DannyGloverDannyGlover Member Posts: 1,277


    It's all about having fun. If you want to PVE in the open world, hang out in town, make friends, do dungeons, craft, do minigames, collect traits, explore, look for easter eggs, make new toons to see new personal stories, grind achievements, world PVP, structured PVP, help lowbies, you totally can, whatever it is. If you're not finding it fun, don't log in because you need to be somewhere. Just do something else instead.
    This is how I play all my mmos (add roleplay to the list). I'm glad there are games like GW2 and SWTOR coming out that help people get back to the fundamentals of playing games. Have fun. Do what you like. Enjoy yourself.

    I sit on a man's back, choking him and making him carry me, and yet assure myself and others that I am very sorry for him and wish to ease his lot by all possible means - except by getting off his back.

  • AzmodaiAzmodai Member UncommonPosts: 154

    Originally posted by megera23

    Hmm, as someone who has already played GW2, SWTOR and Tera (3 of the big upcoming MMOs) I know I'll stick with GW2 as my main game.

    Could you possibly tell me How TERA compares to the other 2 and the rest of the MMOS? I really like the art style and how the game looks in TERA but some info from you would really be appreciated ;).

     

    In my openion Guildwars 2 will be a Huge sucess, It offers something different that most MMOS dont have just like TSW which i also think will be a very great game.

    image

  • AzariaAzaria Member Posts: 318

    This looks like another cleverly disguised Play The Old Republic instead thread. 

    No Offense.

  • farmerfredfarmerfred Member Posts: 46

    Originally posted by Azaria

    This looks like another cleverly disguised Play The Old Republic instead thread. 

    No Offense.

    Well, I think we should all play TOR....

  • SuperXero89SuperXero89 Member UncommonPosts: 2,551

    Originally posted by AKASlaphappy

    Originally posted by SuperXero89


    The people that need to be concerned are those that fully intend to play Guild Wars 2 as their only MMORPG for the foreseeable future.  The game will have serious longevity for those people unless there is some kind of hook involved to keep people playing. 

     


    Tell that to the 1500 hours I have logged into GW1 and to the thousands of other people that have logged even more hours into GW1. The funny part of this is the fact that you people keep assuming everyone is like you and that they need a gear grind or something in order to keep playing a game. By god who would ever think that some people out there might just play because they are having fun. That is a shocker! According to the vast majority on this site a game cannot be a MMO without it being a soul sucking life killing grindfest that keeps you playing for that next carrot. Although I do not remember anyone electing the people on here the God of MMOs and made it so they know what is best for the thousands of gamers out there not like them!


     


     


    From ANet’s Manifesto if you do not like MMOs you should check out GW2 if you like MMOs you should check out GW2. It seems like you guys just like ignoring the first part “if you do not like MMOs” and keep crying that GW2 is not like everyone other MMO.

     

    Do people still play Guild Wars?  Of course they do.  My acknowledgement of that fact is enough to show that I'm not saying there won't be people who find GW2 to have enough content to keep them playing.  By and large; however, most people are going to tell you that Guild Wars lacks the same amount of PvE content as a game like World of Warcraft or LotRO.  Seeing as I'm typing these words, I shouldn't have to preface everything I say with "in my opinion."  If I'm saying it, it's obviously my opinion.  My opinion stands as it is.  Purely from a PvE standpoint, unless there is a hook to keep people playing, I don't see  what will keep people playing GW2 exclusively. 

  • fiontarfiontar Member UncommonPosts: 3,682

    Guild Wars 2 is a very different game than Guild Wars 1. It also looks to be the first MMO since WoW to actually catch the genre back up to where it should have been by now, if everyone else hadn't been so stuck on emulating WoW all these years.

    We've been waiting six years for a true "next generation" MMORPG and GW2 not only looks to be it, but it may skip ahead an addition half or full generation beyond what other titles are offering up. I know that sounds like just hype, but I think it has a stronger foundation than the concerns put forth by the OP.

    Want to know more about GW2 and why there is so much buzz? Start here: Guild Wars 2 Mass Info for the Uninitiated
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  • AzariaAzaria Member Posts: 318

    Originally posted by SuperXero89

    Do people still play Guild Wars?  Of course they do.  My acknowledgement of that fact is enough to show that I'm not saying there won't be people who find GW2 to have enough content to keep them playing.  By and large; however, most people are going to tell you that Guild Wars lacks the same amount of PvE content as a game like World of Warcraft or LotRO.  Seeing as I'm typing these words, I shouldn't have to preface everything I say with "in my opinion."  If I'm saying it, it's obviously my opinion.  My opinion stands as it is.  Purely from a PvE standpoint, unless there is a hook to keep people playing, I don't see  what will keep people playing GW2 exclusively. 

    Of course it wont niether GW or GW2 are PVE centric games, they have environmental pve, but its not a gear grind game, thiers simply no demand for it in GW. Plenty of people play only GW1 and other non PVE games, plently of people still play UO and theres no monster killer dungeions in that game. LOTS of people Play EVE online which also has no 50 foot raid bosses. I think  some people lose sleep at night knowing someone is enjoying an mmorpg and not raiding. Case in point there are more people playing UO today than there are playing AOC, there are more playing EVE than that are playing LOTR and more people are playing GW1 right now, than there are playing LOTR. Not everyone that plays an mmorpg is looking for a constant carrot on a stick.

  • megera23megera23 Member UncommonPosts: 239

    Originally posted by Azmodai

    Originally posted by megera23

    Hmm, as someone who has already played GW2, SWTOR and Tera (3 of the big upcoming MMOs) I know I'll stick with GW2 as my main game.

    Could you possibly tell me How TERA compares to the other 2 and the rest of the MMOS? I really like the art style and how the game looks in TERA but some info from you would really be appreciated ;).

     

    In my openion Guildwars 2 will be a Huge sucess, It offers something different that most MMOS dont have just like TSW which i also think will be a very great game.

    Mmm, my main gripe with Tera was the general atmosphere of the starting zone (too bright colors that practically scream "look at me, you're in a fantasy world") and the questing, with the long distances to run between. It reminded me way too much of Aion, which I'm not very fond of. Other parts of the gameplay/world might be entirely different, but I couldn't get very far. Things like atmosphere in MMOs play a big role in whether I enjoy a game or not.

    The combat was a nice change, the animations were well done and the controls were responsive, but I got bored of the questing pretty fast.

    I suggest you give it a shot and see if these things bother you or not, whenever the beta for NA/EU starts. :)

     

    The concept of TSW does seem interesting, but I'll admit, I haven't been paying that much attention to it.

  • eye_meye_m Member UncommonPosts: 3,317

    I like the way that GW2 is heading. I think it's a step in the right direction.

    All of my posts are either intelligent, thought provoking, funny, satirical, sarcastic or intentionally disrespectful. Take your pick.

    I get banned in the forums for games I love, so lets see if I do better in the forums for games I hate.

    I enjoy the serenity of not caring what your opinion is.

    I don't hate much, but I hate Apple© with a passion. If Steve Jobs was alive, I would punch him in the face.

  • UtukuMoonUtukuMoon Member Posts: 1,066
    Originally posted by Zecktorin

    The fact that people have very unrealistic expectations for this game.... People think this is going to be the next king of MMOs when in reality its probably not going to be. Not syaing its going to do bad tho.

     

    So now we get to the real reason of your post lol.Start off saying that you really like GW and you think GW2 will do well.After that little intro your next line is " people think its going to be the next king of mmo" so you were not concerned with people playing it along side a PTP mmo you just wanted to tell us the above line. Check my post history and you will see that i have major concerns with that other mmo starting its early release today but i don't hide behind a miss leading excuse,i just say it how it is no matter what the diehards think.Its better to be honest and show your true feeling than start a steath thread.

  • onthestickonthestick Member Posts: 600

    Originally posted by Zecktorin

    The fact that people have very unrealistic expectations for this game.... People think this is going to be the next king of MMOs when in reality its probably not going to be. Not syaing its going to do bad tho.

    If you go by these forums yes. Tell me one MMO where fans do not make statements like that? so yeah such statements and reactions are not limited to GW2.  Hype is always good though and no gaming company will complaint against it. But if players get disappointed later because they hyped themselves to extent where the game didn't meet their expectations they can only blame themselves.

    How many servers SWTOR will launch with on release?

    ShredderSE - Umm how many do they need? Maybe 6.
    US, EU, Asian, France, German and Russian.
    Subs will be so low there is no need for more
    Snoocky-How many servers?
    The first 3 months a lot...after that 2 i guess, one for PVE and 1 for PVP...

    Thorbrand - SWTOR doesn't have longevity at all. Might be one of the shortest lived MMOs.

  • UtukuMoonUtukuMoon Member Posts: 1,066
    Originally posted by Azaria


    Originally posted by SuperXero89
    Do people still play Guild Wars?  Of course they do.  My acknowledgement of that fact is enough to show that I'm not saying there won't be people who find GW2 to have enough content to keep them playing.  By and large; however, most people are going to tell you that Guild Wars lacks the same amount of PvE content as a game like World of Warcraft or LotRO.  Seeing as I'm typing these words, I shouldn't have to preface everything I say with "in my opinion."  If I'm saying it, it's obviously my opinion.  My opinion stands as it is.  Purely from a PvE standpoint, unless there is a hook to keep people playing, I don't see  what will keep people playing GW2 exclusively. 

    Of course it wont niether GW or GW2 are PVE centric games, they have environmental pve, but its not a gear grind game, thiers simply no demand for it in GW. Plenty of people play only GW1 and other non PVE games, plently of people still play UO and theres no monster killer dungeions in that game. LOTS of people Play EVE online which also has no 50 foot raid bosses. I think  some people lose sleep at night knowing someone is enjoying an mmorpg and not raiding. Case in point there are more people playing UO today than there are playing AOC, there are more playing EVE than that are playing LOTR and more people are playing GW1 right now, than there are playing LOTR. Not everyone that plays an mmorpg is looking for a constant carrot on a stick.

     

    Gw was not a PVE game but it had plenty of PVE content. Now, GW2 is a whole different kettle of fish,it's a PVE MMO with an abundance of PVP but as it stand right now with the information we have,GW2 has more PVE content that it has PVE,that could change.Five race home starter areas each with their own storys and quest lines.Each race has a choice of story modes on creation,then we have over 1500+ dynamic events and instance dungeons that change depending.We also have a netrual city that has its own story and quest lines.Now we move onto the underwater content that is vast and nearly covers the landmass of Tyria,i mean that should tell anyone that GW2 is as much PVE if not more than a lot of MMOs today. Would you consider RIFT to be a PVE game because GW2 has more PVE content than that game released with and has now.Dont get me wrong,i love PVP but you view of GW2 as a PVP centric game is way off.

  • Master10KMaster10K Member Posts: 3,065

    Originally posted by Sylvarii

    *snip*

     

    Gw was not a PVE game but it had plenty of PVE content. Now, GW2 is a whole different kettle of fish,it's a PVE MMO with an abundance of PVP but as it stand right now with the information we have,GW2 has more PVE content that it has PVE,that could change.Five race home starter areas each with their own storys and quest lines.Each race has a choice of story modes on creation,then we have over 1500+ dynamic events and instance dungeons that change depending.We also have a netrual city that has its own story and quest lines.Now we move onto the underwater content that is vast and nearly covers the landmass of Tyria,i mean that should tell anyone that GW2 is as much PVE if not more than a lot of MMOs today. Would you consider RIFT to be a PVE game because GW2 has more PVE content than that game released with and has now.Dont get me wrong,i love PVP but you view of GW2 as a PVP centric game is way off.

    This is don't get. Why do people view GW2 as a PvE or PvP centric game, when it's obviously niether. ANet have spent a large amount of time on both parts of the and balancing them seperately to the point that GW2 is both a PvE and PvP game. ANet have gone of record of saying that "when people think of MMO e-sports PvP, they want them to think of GW2." So does this make GW2 a PvP game? No, because like you've pointed out there's a huge amount of PvE content to go along with it.

     

    So play GW2 the way you want to play (primarily for PvE or PvP), but let's not stick pointless labels on it please.

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  • Master10KMaster10K Member Posts: 3,065

    Originally posted by SuperXero89

    *snip*

    Do people still play Guild Wars?  Of course they do.  My acknowledgement of that fact is enough to show that I'm not saying there won't be people who find GW2 to have enough content to keep them playing.  By and large; however, most people are going to tell you that Guild Wars lacks the same amount of PvE content as a game like World of Warcraft or LotRO.  Seeing as I'm typing these words, I shouldn't have to preface everything I say with "in my opinion."  If I'm saying it, it's obviously my opinion.  My opinion stands as it is.  Purely from a PvE standpoint, unless there is a hook to keep people playing, I don't see  what will keep people playing GW2 exclusively. 

    When has ANet every claimed to want to lock people to their game. The game is just not designed that way and probably never will be. They have said a number of times that they want their players to feel like they can enjoy any other game (not just other MMOs) and GW2 will always be there for them to return to. What's wrong with that? Why shouldn't I be able to put down GW2 for a month, when a game like Skyrim comes a long, without feeling that I'm not getting my money's worth. An MMORPG is a game, 1st and foremost, not a second life. Stop feeling the need to treat it like one.

     

    I will treat GW2 as a game that will not consume my life, or the entirely of my gaming time, because that is how it designed. It just isn't designed to be a person's only game.

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  • Creslin321Creslin321 Member Posts: 5,359

    The OP's argument is literally:

    "GW2 will not be good because people think it will be really good."

    And this has gone on for almost 8 pages?  There's nothing to argue here...the OP has no argument.

    Are you team Azeroth, team Tyria, or team Jacob?

  • FrostWyrmFrostWyrm Member Posts: 1,036

    Originally posted by Master10K

    But I wonder why people like you feel that an MMO must keep people playing by some arbitary game mechanic (like gear progression), rather than just being fun for people to come back to, as they please. Today I'm supposed to play Rift and join my guildies in a Raid but I'm ill and don't feel up to and I feel pretty bad, like I'm letting them down. Feeling like I'm forced to play a game in such a fashion is what a lot of people are sick off and why they are gravitating towards GW2.

     

    For me it's mostly the PvP and the lack of a fee.

    A lot of people (maybe not everyone, but a lot) like to feel like there's more for them to accomplish. Obviously I cant speak for everyone, but I, for one, don't want to "win the game" with an MMO. The longer I feel like there's more for me to do; whether its aquiring new skills, stats, crafting levels, exploring new areas, or what have you, and a reason for me to care enough to do it;  the longer my interest is held.

    A lot of people just like to feel as though they're at least one step ahead of where they were the day before. In my opinion, gear grinding is not necessarily the best way to accomplish this, though. I did like Everquest's old AA system from back in the day. Unlockable skills/abilities would be much cooler than equipment I think, but equipment is just the "easy" road from a developer's point of view. Much less difficult just reving up the numbers on an existing item than actually...you know...THINKING of new ways a character can act/react to a situation. So it's what we see most often.

  • JoeyMMOJoeyMMO Member UncommonPosts: 1,326

    Originally posted by DannyGlover

     




    Originally posted by eycel





    Originally posted by Zecktorin

    The fact that people have very unrealistic expectations for this game.... People think this is going to be the next king of MMOs when in reality its probably not going to be. Not syaing its going to do bad tho.






    I think along the oppisite end of this complealy, if there was one game I was to only be able to buy in the next 10 years, it would be GW2.





    That's kinda sad. A decade of games... you'd really sacrifice that? I wouldn't. Even if GW2 was the best game ever made I'd still want to play other games.

     

     He typed buy, not play. He'd only buy GW2, doesn't mean he can't play anything else. There are F2P gear- and other grinders out there you know...

    imageimage
  • JoeyMMOJoeyMMO Member UncommonPosts: 1,326

    Originally posted by SuperXero89

    *snip*

    Do people still play Guild Wars?  Of course they do.  My acknowledgement of that fact is enough to show that I'm not saying there won't be people who find GW2 to have enough content to keep them playing.  By and large; however, most people are going to tell you that Guild Wars lacks the same amount of PvE content as a game like World of Warcraft or LotRO.  Seeing as I'm typing these words, I shouldn't have to preface everything I say with "in my opinion."  If I'm saying it, it's obviously my opinion.  My opinion stands as it is.  Purely from a PvE standpoint, unless there is a hook to keep people playing, I don't see  what will keep people playing GW2 exclusively. 

    To me, raiding quickly grew into this boring routine (second job) you get to repeat over and over in hopes of getting another piece of gear. When you're geared enough, then you get to go for the next tier and the next and then when you're finally fully geared, there comes an expansion and you get to do that crap all over again. I find it quite strange that people find it enjoyable, and are willing to pay a monthly fee for that to boot. Actually I think people are more addicted to the shinies than really enjoying the game. If there is one thing I won't miss it's raiding.

    If you need another carrot on a stick, other than simply having fun, then don't cancel your sub game. You should know by now that sub games are time sinks to designed keep you p(l)aying. GW2 is designed to be fun, not to be a second job. If that's not to your liking, then that's your loss.

    imageimage
  • marinridermarinrider Member UncommonPosts: 1,556

    Originally posted by JoeyMMO

    Originally posted by DannyGlover

     




    Originally posted by eycel






    Originally posted by Zecktorin

    The fact that people have very unrealistic expectations for this game.... People think this is going to be the next king of MMOs when in reality its probably not going to be. Not syaing its going to do bad tho.







    I think along the oppisite end of this complealy, if there was one game I was to only be able to buy in the next 10 years, it would be GW2.






    That's kinda sad. A decade of games... you'd really sacrifice that? I wouldn't. Even if GW2 was the best game ever made I'd still want to play other games.

     

     He typed buy, not play. He'd only buy GW2, doesn't mean he can't play anything else. There are F2P gear- and other grinders out there you know...

    He also said if he was only able to buy one game ,meaning the sacrificing every other game that needs to be purchased is already done. So now Danny did a double-misinterpretation!

  • FreeBooteRFreeBooteR Member Posts: 333

    I love how threatened fans of a certain other game which is soon to be released, is by little news bits concerning GW2. Gives me a chuckle.  This thread for instance. What a desperate and poorly concealed attack. Well i hope your game isn't completely destroyed by GW2's release when it comes, plenty of room for everybody.

    Archlinux ftw

  • sammyelisammyeli Member Posts: 765

    Its just people from SWTOR raging that they didnt get in the early access. 

     

    Its ok let them blow off the steam for having paid for early access and not getting it, I would be pissed too. O_O

    image

    “The truth may be puzzling. It may take some work to grapple with. It may be counterintuitive. It may contradict deeply held prejudices. It may not be consonant with what we desperately want to be true. But our preferences do not determine what's true.”

    Carl Sagan-

  • clbembryclbembry Member Posts: 94

    Originally posted by Ubermeh

    Originally posted by Zecktorin


    Originally posted by DexterMMO

    Gw2 will be superior to gw1... Its a real mmo, not a quest hub co-op.

    Dosen't mean it will do any better.... 

    I wouldn't say GW1 was a failure, would you?

    GW2 will have Tons of players but I don't think it will be the SWTOR killer.

    Did you honestly just use the term "SWTOR killer"? The things I want to say in response to that but can't...

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