Originally posted by tank017 I think ToR will go the way of Rift.So nothing will change pretty much,people will play through it once or twice and move on to something else.
When most have seen the dialogue ones they quit, becouse they thought they would actually play the game, but no they constantly watching a screen where story is told hehe:P
Hope to build full AMD system RYZEN/VEGA/AM4!!!
MB:Asus V De Luxe z77 CPU:Intell Icore7 3770k GPU: AMD Fury X(waiting for BIG VEGA 10 or 11 HBM2?(bit unclear now)) MEMORY:Corsair PLAT.DDR3 1866MHZ 16GB PSU:Corsair AX1200i OS:Windows 10 64bit
Nothing really the industry will just continue going down this same boring path when making an MMO. Do I want SWTOR to fail? Yes! Why do I want it to fail? Because I'm sick and tired of the same crap being put out every year. I just want something new and something that doesn't only cater to the casuals because let's face it only new MMO's are casual only.
Strangely, i think SWTOR and ArenaNet upcoming GW2 will end up by defining the path of the MMORPG industry. Maybe it will happen, maybe not. The troubled times we live, both financially and socially, will no doubt help to freeze this industry a bit. With low revenues and high profit breakdowns, we are currently seing many mmorpg games going F2P, many developers laying down employees, clearly indicating that things are not easy atm.
So, with all eyes set in both these games, with two different approaches for their revenue inflows, the success or failure of one of these games will probably help to dictate how future developers may present any new title in the market. SWTOR is a big IP, and people should not doubt that this game had a big pre-launch sale because of its name. Should it had been "another" mmorpg, exactly the same, but called err..."fantasy planets" or whatever, with nothing to do with Star Wars, i dont even know if it could endure more than 3 months with a steady sub player base. Most veteran players are a bit fed up of doing the same stuff they have done in other titles of the genre, and new players may not have the money to pay for a monthly sub....or they would only do so if te game is truly appealing. This may sound "out of this world" but its a ever groing reality.
So im guessing 3 scenarios will soon present to this industry and its community:
- SWTOR is succesful and we may see the revitalization of this industry;
- SWTOR fails, GW2 is successful, and we may see the fall of the concept of "monthly fee" and subsequent break in mmorpgs launches;
- Both games fail, and people will all go play EvE online;
On a more general note, disregarding the success or failure of SWTOR, the trend in MMO development clearly indicates a move to more accessible, casual and entertaining gameplay.
As I said in another post earlier today, I expect that a big developer will soon make an attempt to produce an "MMO" with strong Facebook links and quite possibly browser-based. I'm quite sure the designs are already on the table, it just needs a year or two for the hardware to mature and the HTML5 standards to be finalised.
Anyone that can crack the "crossover" market will have player numbers that will make WoW's heyday of 12 million subs be remembered as a "fairly good effort from the early days of online gaming"
I wouldn't be the least bit surprised if Blizzard actually makes the first "crossover" attempt. How much do we REALLY know about Project Titan ?
This is not a thread about whether SWTOR is fail or the awesome sauce.
This is about what happens after it happens. I see one of 3 things happening here.
SWTOR succeeds and replaces WoWs 500 pound gorilla with a 500 pound Wookie in every corner. Thus a year from now we are complaining about Korean SWTOR clones.
SWTOR fails thus any one who was thinking about spending money on making an MMO looks at corpse and decide to make a Skyrim clone instead.
Both of these options are bad for the industry, bad for gamers.
The 3rd option is nothing happens. Nothing changes.
Some people play SWTOR others play other things. WoW loses (proper spelling) people but keeps plodding along. Devs make more failed MMOs.
So what do you all think.
What?!
You might have not noticed but there are quite a few very viable contenders for the next super-mmo king in the works.
GW2 - everybody knows about it (except you apparently), it's trying to challenge almost all mmo cliches except fantasy setting (no elves or dwarves or orcs though) and leveling (but with such all-pervasive sidekicking that it could almost not be there)
TSW - a "modern realistic" setting, 3-factions, emphasis on puzzles and exploration etc etc
Planetside 2 - F2P 3-faction persistent world online shooter, jeez!
Archeage - blending both themepark and hardcore sandbox into one
... and I'm sure there are a few more others definitely worth a look.
Unless SW:TOR wipes the floor with everybody else and gathers even more subs than WoW (which I SERIOUSLY doubt from all that I've seen) your question is totally moot.
At least one of the games listed above is going to be a moderate to huge success and it might well redefine what is the next thing AAA industry will want to clone. Frankly there is nothing to be "cloned" from SWTOR except the bloated VO/cutscene budget and I really don't think very many AAA devs would want to go into that... because its a matter of budget and not concept. You can copy concepts but not budgets lol.
On a more general note, disregarding the success or failure of SWTOR, the trend in MMO development clearly indicates a move to more accessible, casual and entertaining gameplay.
As I said in another post earlier today, I expect that a big developer will soon make an attempt to produce an "MMO" with strong Facebook links and quite possibly browser-based. I'm quite sure the designs are already on the table, it just needs a year or two for the hardware to mature and the HTML5 standards to be finalised.
Anyone that can crack the "crossover" market will have player numbers that will make WoW's heyday of 12 million subs be remembered as a "fairly good effort from the early days of online gaming"
I wouldn't be the least bit surprised if Blizzard actually makes the first "crossover" attempt. How much do we REALLY know about Project Titan ?
What you describe, and fairly well, is in fact the end of this industry as we know it. The end of pure gaming flow, and the begining of that "heavy-marketing-bulshit" games. Make no mistake, when games stop being made for the "gamers" and start being made for "players" we will never see a "game" again...
I think nothing happens nothing changes to any great degree. A few months(IE 6 or so) from now GW2 will be out. They have a different model which I think will be equally successfull. Other devs will try other things some will succeed others will fail. The one part of the equation most people on these forums fail to take into account is the true measure of sucess for an MMO. The first measure is did the game recoup all of the expenses incurred in creating the game. On top of that because the industry is so volatile most investers would want at least a 50% return. I think any game that meets that basic goal is a success.
Some games though have a lot of gravity based solely on how much money has been invested into them. They require a huge fanbase to recoup their expenses and as a result succeed or fail they will shape the industry to one extent or another. Blizzard at the time spent approximately 10 times what the normal investment was into a typical MMO into WoW. They took a big risk and succeeded. SWTOR spent about 5 times what is currently the norm and as such took a big risk. It appears the risk is paying off at the moment but its still early. As such they will have an influence on the genre no matter what happens.
And no matter what happens good or bad at some point down the road another company or individual with deep pockets will come along and spend 5 to 10 times the norm to make a mega game. The only negative thing about mega games is they tend to be watered down to the lowest common denominator in order to draw as large a crowd as they can.
On a more general note, disregarding the success or failure of SWTOR, the trend in MMO development clearly indicates a move to more accessible, casual and entertaining gameplay.
As I said in another post earlier today, I expect that a big developer will soon make an attempt to produce an "MMO" with strong Facebook links and quite possibly browser-based. I'm quite sure the designs are already on the table, it just needs a year or two for the hardware to mature and the HTML5 standards to be finalised.
Anyone that can crack the "crossover" market will have player numbers that will make WoW's heyday of 12 million subs be remembered as a "fairly good effort from the early days of online gaming"
I wouldn't be the least bit surprised if Blizzard actually makes the first "crossover" attempt. How much do we REALLY know about Project Titan ?
What you describe, and fairly well, is in fact the end of this industry as we know it. The end of pure gaming flow, and the begining of that "heavy-marketing-bulshit" games. Make no mistake, when games stop being made for the "gamers" and start being made for "players" we will never see a "game" again...
Indeed, from a "gamer's" point of view, my scenario may look like the Apocalypse...
But if the "supersized, marketing-driven, product-linked, Facebook-liked, play-it-on-your-smartphone" MMO's become a reality, a sizeable chunk of "gamers" (I won't even TRY to define that label will be left behind. Perhaps a big enough niche group to attract the attention of a smaller but still capable development outfit who actually want to build a GAME ?
I think nothing happens nothing changes to any great degree. A few months(IE 6 or so) from now GW2 will be out. They have a different model which I think will be equally successfull. Other devs will try other things some will succeed others will fail. The one part of the equation most people on these forums fail to take into account is the true measure of sucess for an MMO. The first measure is did the game recoup all of the expenses incurred in creating the game. On top of that because the industry is so volatile most investers would want at least a 50% return. I think any game that meets that basic goal is a success.
Some games though have a lot of gravity based solely on how much money has been invested into them. They require a huge fanbase to recoup their expenses and as a result succeed or fail they will shape the industry to one extent or another. Blizzard at the time spent approximately 10 times what the normal investment was into a typical MMO into WoW. They took a big risk and succeeded. SWTOR spent about 5 times what is currently the norm and as such took a big risk. It appears the risk is paying off at the moment but its still early. As such they will have an influence on the genre no matter what happens.
And no matter what happens good or bad at some point down the road another company or individual with deep pockets will come along and spend 5 to 10 times the norm to make a mega game. The only negative thing about mega games is they tend to be watered down to the lowest common denominator in order to draw as large a crowd as they can.
You're spot on.
It's all about return investment. It is the same in film industry. There was a period of super-bloated studio productions which tried to appeal to everybody and their dog in order to recoup their costs and get some profit. The whole scheme grew bigger, riskier and less profitable on average until a "new" model emerged - that of instead of betting everything on one huge production you can make 10 smaller films with the same budget and spread the risk.... And who knows? Maybe one of these 10 turns out to be a sleeper hit and then you'll have the return investment of your dreams.
I'm purposefully not giving out the time this happened because this is a well known cycle in the movie industry, ever since it begun calling itself such in the 1910's lol.
What do I consider some of the "best mmos" in the past 7-8 years, besides WoW? GW and EVE, although I didn't find them personally very appealing. While some may scoff at GW's no subscription model, corpg model or EVE's "measly" 300k subs, just consider how low the initial investment was for these two games. THAT is the bottom line and not the raw amount of $$ you get to rake in at the end.
Comments
When most have seen the dialogue ones they quit, becouse they thought they would actually play the game, but no they constantly watching a screen where story is told hehe:P
Hope to build full AMD system RYZEN/VEGA/AM4!!!
MB:Asus V De Luxe z77
CPU:Intell Icore7 3770k
GPU: AMD Fury X(waiting for BIG VEGA 10 or 11 HBM2?(bit unclear now))
MEMORY:Corsair PLAT.DDR3 1866MHZ 16GB
PSU:Corsair AX1200i
OS:Windows 10 64bit
OP's 3rd option is the winner.
My theme song.
Nothing really the industry will just continue going down this same boring path when making an MMO. Do I want SWTOR to fail? Yes! Why do I want it to fail? Because I'm sick and tired of the same crap being put out every year. I just want something new and something that doesn't only cater to the casuals because let's face it only new MMO's are casual only.
Strangely, i think SWTOR and ArenaNet upcoming GW2 will end up by defining the path of the MMORPG industry. Maybe it will happen, maybe not. The troubled times we live, both financially and socially, will no doubt help to freeze this industry a bit. With low revenues and high profit breakdowns, we are currently seing many mmorpg games going F2P, many developers laying down employees, clearly indicating that things are not easy atm.
So, with all eyes set in both these games, with two different approaches for their revenue inflows, the success or failure of one of these games will probably help to dictate how future developers may present any new title in the market. SWTOR is a big IP, and people should not doubt that this game had a big pre-launch sale because of its name. Should it had been "another" mmorpg, exactly the same, but called err..."fantasy planets" or whatever, with nothing to do with Star Wars, i dont even know if it could endure more than 3 months with a steady sub player base. Most veteran players are a bit fed up of doing the same stuff they have done in other titles of the genre, and new players may not have the money to pay for a monthly sub....or they would only do so if te game is truly appealing. This may sound "out of this world" but its a ever groing reality.
So im guessing 3 scenarios will soon present to this industry and its community:
- SWTOR is succesful and we may see the revitalization of this industry;
- SWTOR fails, GW2 is successful, and we may see the fall of the concept of "monthly fee" and subsequent break in mmorpgs launches;
- Both games fail, and people will all go play EvE online;
On a more general note, disregarding the success or failure of SWTOR, the trend in MMO development clearly indicates a move to more accessible, casual and entertaining gameplay.
As I said in another post earlier today, I expect that a big developer will soon make an attempt to produce an "MMO" with strong Facebook links and quite possibly browser-based. I'm quite sure the designs are already on the table, it just needs a year or two for the hardware to mature and the HTML5 standards to be finalised.
Anyone that can crack the "crossover" market will have player numbers that will make WoW's heyday of 12 million subs be remembered as a "fairly good effort from the early days of online gaming"
I wouldn't be the least bit surprised if Blizzard actually makes the first "crossover" attempt. How much do we REALLY know about Project Titan ?
What?!
You might have not noticed but there are quite a few very viable contenders for the next super-mmo king in the works.
GW2 - everybody knows about it (except you apparently), it's trying to challenge almost all mmo cliches except fantasy setting (no elves or dwarves or orcs though) and leveling (but with such all-pervasive sidekicking that it could almost not be there)
TSW - a "modern realistic" setting, 3-factions, emphasis on puzzles and exploration etc etc
Planetside 2 - F2P 3-faction persistent world online shooter, jeez!
Archeage - blending both themepark and hardcore sandbox into one
... and I'm sure there are a few more others definitely worth a look.
Unless SW:TOR wipes the floor with everybody else and gathers even more subs than WoW (which I SERIOUSLY doubt from all that I've seen) your question is totally moot.
At least one of the games listed above is going to be a moderate to huge success and it might well redefine what is the next thing AAA industry will want to clone. Frankly there is nothing to be "cloned" from SWTOR except the bloated VO/cutscene budget and I really don't think very many AAA devs would want to go into that... because its a matter of budget and not concept. You can copy concepts but not budgets lol.
What you describe, and fairly well, is in fact the end of this industry as we know it. The end of pure gaming flow, and the begining of that "heavy-marketing-bulshit" games. Make no mistake, when games stop being made for the "gamers" and start being made for "players" we will never see a "game" again...
I agree with Warmaker.
Whether TOR succeeds or not. There will clones of this game anyhow.
I predict the market will continue the way it has been.
Newer games will come and go.
It's not about fighting, it's about balance. It's not about enlightenment, it's about balance. It's not about balance.
I think nothing happens nothing changes to any great degree. A few months(IE 6 or so) from now GW2 will be out. They have a different model which I think will be equally successfull. Other devs will try other things some will succeed others will fail. The one part of the equation most people on these forums fail to take into account is the true measure of sucess for an MMO. The first measure is did the game recoup all of the expenses incurred in creating the game. On top of that because the industry is so volatile most investers would want at least a 50% return. I think any game that meets that basic goal is a success.
Some games though have a lot of gravity based solely on how much money has been invested into them. They require a huge fanbase to recoup their expenses and as a result succeed or fail they will shape the industry to one extent or another. Blizzard at the time spent approximately 10 times what the normal investment was into a typical MMO into WoW. They took a big risk and succeeded. SWTOR spent about 5 times what is currently the norm and as such took a big risk. It appears the risk is paying off at the moment but its still early. As such they will have an influence on the genre no matter what happens.
And no matter what happens good or bad at some point down the road another company or individual with deep pockets will come along and spend 5 to 10 times the norm to make a mega game. The only negative thing about mega games is they tend to be watered down to the lowest common denominator in order to draw as large a crowd as they can.
Indeed, from a "gamer's" point of view, my scenario may look like the Apocalypse...
But if the "supersized, marketing-driven, product-linked, Facebook-liked, play-it-on-your-smartphone" MMO's become a reality, a sizeable chunk of "gamers" (I won't even TRY to define that label
will be left behind. Perhaps a big enough niche group to attract the attention of a smaller but still capable development outfit who actually want to build a GAME ?
You're spot on.
It's all about return investment. It is the same in film industry. There was a period of super-bloated studio productions which tried to appeal to everybody and their dog in order to recoup their costs and get some profit. The whole scheme grew bigger, riskier and less profitable on average until a "new" model emerged - that of instead of betting everything on one huge production you can make 10 smaller films with the same budget and spread the risk.... And who knows? Maybe one of these 10 turns out to be a sleeper hit and then you'll have the return investment of your dreams.
I'm purposefully not giving out the time this happened because this is a well known cycle in the movie industry, ever since it begun calling itself such in the 1910's lol.
What do I consider some of the "best mmos" in the past 7-8 years, besides WoW? GW and EVE, although I didn't find them personally very appealing. While some may scoff at GW's no subscription model, corpg model or EVE's "measly" 300k subs, just consider how low the initial investment was for these two games. THAT is the bottom line and not the raw amount of $$ you get to rake in at the end.