So the suggestion now is that people need to be 'rewarded' for grinding through the cut scenes that were supposed to be the unique selling proposition of this game?
Yes. Consider that many players have seen/ will see all of them, and have to repeat them. Should they be forced to go through the VA? Well if they are going to be forced to do something against their will, than at least reward them something useful such as exp and money when is a universal reward for all player groups(RP/non RP,etc)
That is why the space bar can be used to skip the cut scenes - so people don't have to watch them if they don't want to. They aren't forced to do them.
problem, not all VA can be spacebarred.
Which would be a form of forcing it on players, even those that seen it before and are no interested in doing it again. That can be irritating to some people.
But... but... but... The storytelling via cutscenes is groundbreaking and will forever change what players expect from their games! It's what would set TOR apart from and above all other MMOs out there! It's what would redefine what a MMORPG is supposed to be about, so sayeth Bioware!
Watching them should be reward enough in itself!! It's revolutionary and groundbreaking and unprecedented in MMOs! It's what the genre has been missing!!!
I mean, that's what Bioware's PR has been shoving down our throats for months now, isn't it?
How could anyone possibly not want to sit and take in every voice-acted second of brilliance that BioWare has bestowed upon them?
Yes... I'm being extremely sarcastic.
Why? Because, along with several others, I saw this coming.
I said months and months ago (along with others) that Bioware was putting too much stock and were *way* too bold in the assertions they were making about "what MMORPG players are looking for in a game". In the face of more and more players asking for more player freedom and less linear gameplay, Bioware comes out and says, "No no no... We know what players really want. What players really want is more linear gameplay and storytelling".
I was told I was wrong and didn't know what I was talking about. Natch.
Several of the remarks in this thread are things that have been expressed/predicted by people for a long time now. In particular, the thing about people being kicked from groups for not skipping through cut-scenes is something I specifically predicted would happen.
Again, I was told I was wrong and didn't know what I was talking about.
Of course, hardcore fans rushed in "to protect" TOR from such remarks, shooing me away from their beloved, overhyped and yet unproven game...
And yet, here we are in a thread addressing some of those exact issues. Imagine that.
All sarcasm aside...
If it's to the point where it's being suggested that BioWare bribe people with xp or money to sit through what they have been hyping up as "what the genre needs and all players really want", well.. I think that speaks for itself.
Time will tell, though.
Now even fanboi's can't argue with that...
"It would be awesome if you could duel your companion. Then you could solo pvp".--Thanes
I was reading a thread about issues with people kicking others for not skipping VA. But maybe the isse is that the time wasted on doing a fulll va, could have been spent getting more exp and money. So I was thinking, maybe we should brainstorm ways to make VA more interesting to complete for all players and not just the RP part of the community. If you reward players for that time in cut scenes that's was a meaning full universal reward, maybe people wouldn't skip it so much, even those players that power level could feel rewarded doing cut scenes, if the time didn't spent like a waste.
Ïf most people skip the group cutscenes it tells us that they are too long, not that you need to reward people to suffer through them.
The long cut scenes should all be for single players instead where you yourself can decide if you want to spacebar them or not. Cut scenes never really worked in group play anyways, there are made for single player games originally and works best for soloplayers.
Feeling forced to reward players to read or listen to your quests really just say that you have invented a new kind of grind, a MMO should be as fun as possible.
An alternative would be if you could sign up for a minimized or no cut scene option when you start the party. Adding it wont be hard.
But... but... but... The storytelling via cutscenes is groundbreaking and will forever change what players expect from their games! It's what would set TOR apart from and above all other MMOs out there! It's what would redefine what a MMORPG is supposed to be about, so sayeth Bioware!
Watching them should be reward enough in itself!! It's revolutionary and groundbreaking and unprecedented in MMOs! It's what the genre has been missing!!!
I mean, that's what Bioware's PR has been shoving down our throats for months now, isn't it?
How could anyone possibly not want to sit and take in every voice-acted second of brilliance that BioWare has bestowed upon them?
Yes... I'm being extremely sarcastic.
Why? Because, along with several others, I saw this coming.
I said months and months ago (along with others) that Bioware was putting too much stock and were *way* too bold in the assertions they were making about "what MMORPG players are looking for in a game". In the face of more and more players asking for more player freedom and less linear gameplay, Bioware comes out and says, "No no no... We know what players really want. What players really want is more linear gameplay and storytelling".
I was told I was wrong and didn't know what I was talking about. Natch.
Several of the remarks in this thread are things that have been expressed/predicted by people for a long time now. In particular, the thing about people being kicked from groups for not skipping through cut-scenes is something I specifically predicted would happen.
Again, I was told I was wrong and didn't know what I was talking about.
Of course, hardcore fans rushed in "to protect" TOR from such remarks, shooing me away from their beloved, overhyped and yet unproven game...
And yet, here we are in a thread addressing some of those exact issues. Imagine that.
All sarcasm aside...
If it's to the point where it's being suggested that BioWare bribe people with xp or money to sit through what they have been hyping up as "what the genre needs and all players really want", well.. I think that speaks for itself.
Time will tell, though.
Does your hand hurt from patting yourself on the back? A lot of people do seem to enjoy the story/cut-scenes, but those that don't-why are they even playing this game? I don't think you can congratulate yourself for all your amazing predictions just yet. When the people who don't like this story driven style quit the game, and the population settles into paying subs, then you will know it's success and how many people like the game and style. And I think you over-estimate how many players want sandbox/freedom. If it was so many as you think, someone would make that game, as it would be profitable to do so. A lot of people must like themeparks, or they wouldn't keep making them. I don't play TOR and am disappointed by the themepark games I've tried recently-AoC, CO, etc-but it seems the popular choice for devs.
I think trying to enforce specific play styles is ultimately futile.
Self-pity imprisons us in the walls of our own self-absorption. The whole world shrinks down to the size of our problem, and the more we dwell on it, the smaller we are and the larger the problem seems to grow.
But... but... but... The storytelling via cutscenes is groundbreaking and will forever change what players expect from their games! It's what would set TOR apart from and above all other MMOs out there! It's what would redefine what a MMORPG is supposed to be about, so sayeth Bioware!
Watching them should be reward enough in itself!! It's revolutionary and groundbreaking and unprecedented in MMOs! It's what the genre has been missing!!!
I mean, that's what Bioware's PR has been shoving down our throats for months now, isn't it?
How could anyone possibly not want to sit and take in every voice-acted second of brilliance that BioWare has bestowed upon them?
Yes... I'm being extremely sarcastic.
Why? Because, along with several others, I saw this coming.
I said months and months ago (along with others) that Bioware was putting too much stock and were *way* too bold in the assertions they were making about "what MMORPG players are looking for in a game". In the face of more and more players asking for more player freedom and less linear gameplay, Bioware comes out and says, "No no no... We know what players really want. What players really want is more linear gameplay and storytelling".
I was told I was wrong and didn't know what I was talking about. Natch.
Several of the remarks in this thread are things that have been expressed/predicted by people for a long time now. In particular, the thing about people being kicked from groups for not skipping through cut-scenes is something I specifically predicted would happen.
Again, I was told I was wrong and didn't know what I was talking about.
Of course, hardcore fans rushed in "to protect" TOR from such remarks, shooing me away from their beloved, overhyped and yet unproven game...
And yet, here we are in a thread addressing some of those exact issues. Imagine that.
All sarcasm aside...
If it's to the point where it's being suggested that BioWare bribe people with xp or money to sit through what they have been hyping up as "what the genre needs and all players really want", well.. I think that speaks for itself.
Time will tell, though.
What? You saw someone posting on a forum that they HEARD that people(who are not posting on the forum themselves for some reason) are being kicked from groups because they aren't skipping VO? In a game where in Flashpoints(the most VO related group material in the game), you CAN'T swap people out midstream?
Wow... you are freaking Nastradamus. No, that's not a spelling error.
Just like me. I said a while back that monkeys made little urine rainbows when they pee, and sure enough, somebody posted somewhere that they thought somebody said that it happened. I want my Pulitzer, please.
Yes, some people want to zerg through an MMO. EVERY MMO. I remember it in DDO particularly, but I remember it in every MMO I have ever played. THEY WILL DO WHAT THEY WILL DO no matter what material you put in front of them. They're digital locusts.
Since we're playing futune teller... there will be max level toons in this next week or so. They will be few. They WILL thus get lonely, get bored, then quit, then come here and blame it on the game. This is the way of things... the way of the dumbass.
The rest, including us multi-month beta testers, will be enjoying the CONTENT. Those who TRULY care about the RPG in MMORPG, who want to choose for ourselves WHY we sliced into X computer, or brought back data disks from a crashed ship; who don't just see it all as some node we have to right click on to turn in a quest for some XP after we read a wall of text and followed an arrow...
You will NEVER create content that works for a zerger. Eve does it best in that they tell those people, "go get bent. You're only gonna advance THIS fast.".
In the end, zergomeisters are ruining their own fun. And I doubt it's so much that zergers are intolerant of the story lovers. I bet it's more the other way around.
I have a netter solution... Make a new server type outside of pvp,pve,Rppvp,rppve called dbag. Turn off all stories and just give them a checklist of 3000 quests to do and call it a day.
Everything I say is my opinion or personal preference. You may or may not find it useful to your cause but regardless I am entitled to it.
So the suggestion now is that people need to be 'rewarded' for grinding through the cut scenes that were supposed to be the unique selling proposition of this game?
Yes. Consider that many players have seen/ will see all of them, and have to repeat them. Should they be forced to go through the VA? Well if they are going to be forced to do something against their will, than at least reward them something useful such as exp and money when is a universal reward for all player groups(RP/non RP,etc)
And screw the players that are being kicked because of this other group that full well knew what was involved in this game?
Great solution there...
That Guild Wars 2 login screen knocked up my wife. Must be the second coming!
Think people are missing a pretty important point.
No matter how casual you are, no matter how much you're doing it for the story, putting the rpg in mmorpg, sticking it to wow fanboys, or whatever it is you people do these days....you're not going to want to watch the same thing repeatedly.
...So you won't. Then after that, how long until you get tired of waiting for others to watch through them? Every time?
Story is nice, the dialogue is good when not dealing with corney ass sayings. But it does get old real fast. Granted I've only done the 1st flashpoint but if each FP is on a set path and the same way of getting there every time with no variety then it will get stale... FAST.
One remedy possibly is allow dialogue actions/decisions to set a completely different path like GW2 does with their dungeons, that can allow a better longevity in a FP imo.
Think people are missing a pretty important point.
No matter how casual you are, no matter how much you're doing it for the story, putting the rpg in mmorpg, sticking it to wow fanboys, or whatever it is you people do these days....you're not going to want to watch the same thing repeatedly.
...So you won't. Then after that, how long until you get tired of waiting for others to watch through them? Every time?
Hence my earlier post. Group with people that feel the same way about the cut scenes you do. Problem solved. Do the devs have to hold your hand on everything? Figure some of these issues out yourself.
Story is nice, the dialogue is good when not dealing with corney ass sayings. But it does get old real fast. Granted I've only done the 1st flashpoint but if each FP is on a set path and the same way of getting there every time with no variety then it will get stale... FAST.
One remedy possibly is allow dialogue actions/decisions to set a completely different path like GW2 does with their dungeons, that can allow a better longevity in a FP imo.
But eventually you will do all the different paths in GW2 dungeons as well, then what? All games become repetitive. Until truly random generated content is implemented (when the tech/programming becomes advanced enough), this will always be the case.
Story is nice, the dialogue is good when not dealing with corney ass sayings. But it does get old real fast. Granted I've only done the 1st flashpoint but if each FP is on a set path and the same way of getting there every time with no variety then it will get stale... FAST.
One remedy possibly is allow dialogue actions/decisions to set a completely different path like GW2 does with their dungeons, that can allow a better longevity in a FP imo.
But eventually you will do all the different paths in GW2 dungeons as well, then what? All games become repetitive. Until truly random generated content is implemented (when the tech/programming becomes advanced enough), this will always be the case.
But by the time you do all those different paths in GW2, you'll probably have every piece of gear you wanted from that dungeon (everyone gets something everytime philosophy) - so you won't need to repeat it anymore
I am really surprised Anet is the first one to actually realize the issues with the standart dungeon formula and understands the mentality on a MMO gamer - and I think BW should take some lessons, it would certainly help them
I think I actually spent way more time reading and theorycrafting about MMOs than playing them
Comments
Now even fanboi's can't argue with that...
"It would be awesome if you could duel your companion. Then you could solo pvp".--Thanes
Ïf most people skip the group cutscenes it tells us that they are too long, not that you need to reward people to suffer through them.
The long cut scenes should all be for single players instead where you yourself can decide if you want to spacebar them or not. Cut scenes never really worked in group play anyways, there are made for single player games originally and works best for soloplayers.
Feeling forced to reward players to read or listen to your quests really just say that you have invented a new kind of grind, a MMO should be as fun as possible.
An alternative would be if you could sign up for a minimized or no cut scene option when you start the party. Adding it wont be hard.
Does your hand hurt from patting yourself on the back? A lot of people do seem to enjoy the story/cut-scenes, but those that don't-why are they even playing this game? I don't think you can congratulate yourself for all your amazing predictions just yet. When the people who don't like this story driven style quit the game, and the population settles into paying subs, then you will know it's success and how many people like the game and style. And I think you over-estimate how many players want sandbox/freedom. If it was so many as you think, someone would make that game, as it would be profitable to do so. A lot of people must like themeparks, or they wouldn't keep making them. I don't play TOR and am disappointed by the themepark games I've tried recently-AoC, CO, etc-but it seems the popular choice for devs.
I think trying to enforce specific play styles is ultimately futile.
Self-pity imprisons us in the walls of our own self-absorption. The whole world shrinks down to the size of our problem, and the more we dwell on it, the smaller we are and the larger the problem seems to grow.
What? You saw someone posting on a forum that they HEARD that people(who are not posting on the forum themselves for some reason) are being kicked from groups because they aren't skipping VO? In a game where in Flashpoints(the most VO related group material in the game), you CAN'T swap people out midstream?
Wow... you are freaking Nastradamus. No, that's not a spelling error.
Just like me. I said a while back that monkeys made little urine rainbows when they pee, and sure enough, somebody posted somewhere that they thought somebody said that it happened. I want my Pulitzer, please.
Yes, some people want to zerg through an MMO. EVERY MMO. I remember it in DDO particularly, but I remember it in every MMO I have ever played. THEY WILL DO WHAT THEY WILL DO no matter what material you put in front of them. They're digital locusts.
Since we're playing futune teller... there will be max level toons in this next week or so. They will be few. They WILL thus get lonely, get bored, then quit, then come here and blame it on the game. This is the way of things... the way of the dumbass.
The rest, including us multi-month beta testers, will be enjoying the CONTENT. Those who TRULY care about the RPG in MMORPG, who want to choose for ourselves WHY we sliced into X computer, or brought back data disks from a crashed ship; who don't just see it all as some node we have to right click on to turn in a quest for some XP after we read a wall of text and followed an arrow...
You will NEVER create content that works for a zerger. Eve does it best in that they tell those people, "go get bent. You're only gonna advance THIS fast.".
In the end, zergomeisters are ruining their own fun. And I doubt it's so much that zergers are intolerant of the story lovers. I bet it's more the other way around.
And this statement is exactly why Themepark games will be a thing of the past after SWTOR.
"It would be awesome if you could duel your companion. Then you could solo pvp".--Thanes
Could they make that into a commercial? So good...We pay your character to play the game right!
I think this will be one of the things that keeps this level of VO as a fad, not a norm., I also think it will be prohibitive to a lot of developers.
Everything I say is my opinion or personal preference. You may or may not find it useful to your cause but regardless I am entitled to it.
And screw the players that are being kicked because of this other group that full well knew what was involved in this game?
Great solution there...
That Guild Wars 2 login screen knocked up my wife. Must be the second coming!
Think people are missing a pretty important point.
No matter how casual you are, no matter how much you're doing it for the story, putting the rpg in mmorpg, sticking it to wow fanboys, or whatever it is you people do these days....you're not going to want to watch the same thing repeatedly.
...So you won't. Then after that, how long until you get tired of waiting for others to watch through them? Every time?
Story is nice, the dialogue is good when not dealing with corney ass sayings. But it does get old real fast. Granted I've only done the 1st flashpoint but if each FP is on a set path and the same way of getting there every time with no variety then it will get stale... FAST.
One remedy possibly is allow dialogue actions/decisions to set a completely different path like GW2 does with their dungeons, that can allow a better longevity in a FP imo.
Currently Playing: World of Warcraft
But eventually you will do all the different paths in GW2 dungeons as well, then what? All games become repetitive. Until truly random generated content is implemented (when the tech/programming becomes advanced enough), this will always be the case.
But by the time you do all those different paths in GW2, you'll probably have every piece of gear you wanted from that dungeon (everyone gets something everytime philosophy) - so you won't need to repeat it anymore
I am really surprised Anet is the first one to actually realize the issues with the standart dungeon formula and understands the mentality on a MMO gamer - and I think BW should take some lessons, it would certainly help them
I think I actually spent way more time reading and theorycrafting about MMOs than playing them