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How come pvp servers are jammed full?
RudedawgCDN
Member UncommonPosts: 507
Whenever there is a post on this site about pvp servers - the majority of people complain about getting "ganked"/"griefed", how it's "dying" and no one likes to do it.
None of the major AAA titles have given what players want - which is wide open world pvp with destructible assets. (DF and Mo don't count)
Now someone will post how pvp is dying, and all the other crap they post.
But try logging into a SWTOR pvp server.
Their full.
While the pve servers are "light".
Comments
SWTOR does not have non restricted FFA FL PVP. There are all sorts of limitations on it.
I find a large percentage of people like PvP. A smaller subset likes FFA PvP, which turns a large number of people off, but basic PvP seems an enjoyable area for most.
I self identify as a monkey.
People like pvp, the majority hates having to endure penalties for it though. SWTOR PvP has no repercussions for dying, so it's quite popular. I wish there was some item loss or something to make fights more significant, like in AC Darktide
Is the number of pvp servers equal to or greater than the number of pve servers? If so, your point is valid. If not, you should not respond to this post and pray this thread dies quickly.
I am convinced there is only one way to eliminate these grave evils, namely through the establishment of a socialist economy, accompanied by an educational system which would be oriented toward social goals.
~Albert Einstein
People like beating ten shades of crap out of each other.
SWTOR right now:
17 full PVE servers (13 very heavy)
15 full PVP servers (15 very heavy)
So exactly a 50/50 split. (With the overall server split being about 60/40 in favor of PVE servers.)
Nobody claims PVP is dying. We only point out that players overwhelmingly seek PVP in skill-centric meaningful competitions (FPSes, MOBAs, etc) while a minority of casual players wants the zerg2win and outgear2win (world PVP is casual PVP.)
"What is truly revealing is his implication that believing something to be true is the same as it being true. [continue]" -John Oliver
People seek e-sport pvp in e-sport games*, they often also look for larger combat potential in (amazingly enough) games that are meant to be open worlds offering open world combat. Incredible I know.
World pvp is casual pvp in the sense of a micromanagement e-sport. E-sport pvp is casual in the context of warfare level macromanagement. Or wait, are you suggesting that there are not hardcore dedicated pvp corps in EVE?
To try and presume that only "casual players" take part in world pvp and that it is totally "casual" is rather amusing, but also rather expected coming from you.
Oddly enough some people find the notion of larger scale conflicts and an open world environment in which to do them rather compelling and it is far from limited to zergs.
* And for the majority of the time, most are casual players in unranked/non competitive matches just "having a blast", i.e. casual pvp. It just happens to general: not cost a monthly sub, look better and be more accessible.
@OP: The simple fact of the matter is a lot of people like pvp servers. A great deal of the complaining about them and "ganking" comes from people on forums like this who don't actually play on pvp servers or in pvp mmos in the first place.
"Come and have a look at what you could have won."
Themeparks. They have become more about endgame than anything else. While a fun and entertaining trip there is never complained about, most gamers take the quickest route to level cap as possible, content be damned.
How does this relate? Well open world pvp is an added endgame option. Since most people run through years of content in weeks and are at endgame for extended periods of time, pvp is king. PvP is one of the few themepark aspects that usually has variety despite being somewhat of a hampsterwheel,especially instanced BG's. Adding the option to go roam and pvp just adds another dimension.
While getting ganked while leveling can be annoying, in a themepark its nothing more than getting sent back to the spawn point, mabey some repairs, and a min or two regen wait. Thats it. You trade that for a completely diffrent PVP "attraction". The pve servers trade open world saftey for this added attractions, and a lot of people do miss the oppertunity to hunt down an obnoxious chat spammer or enemy player in the open world and well...send him back to his bind.
Playing FFA full loot games, and getting over pixle loss (especially in games like DF where loot is so easily aquired and is short lived regardless of pvp) adds such a valuable risk factor in even mundane activites that you really appreciate when back in themepark world. Im not sure i could ever go back to the fields of mobs standing around again without at least having to check my surroundings for enemy gankers.
Also, for some its a matter of hardcore-gamer-cred...its like "im on the pvp server and more hardcore than the pve players"
Bottom line, unless you detest pvp, suffer emotional duress from getting sent back to your bind, or just like to afk in peace wherever you want...choosing a pvp server simply adds one extra dimension to gameplay, especially at endgame where most will be camped out a majority of their time playing.
Hardcore PVP corps are hardcores in a casual game. Sorta like the most avid FarmVille or Bejeweled fanatics. Combat in these games is determined more by massing players or out-progressing or out-producing the opponent, so when it comes to the fighting itself everything is completely one-sided and casual.
I love larger scale conflicts. Give me more Planetsides. And specifically copy Planetside's population limits and lateral progression, which cause large scale conflicts to be won by the more skilled, coordinated team (not simply the team which massed more players or grinded more progression.) Currently I'm playing a moderate amount of Battlefield 3, wihch comes close to the same type of play.
The majority of e-sports PVP being fought by casual players doesn't really matter -- the point is the majority of players (casual and hardcore) seek PVP which is about PVP. Whereas in world PVP, the entire game is about what happens before PVP. The fights themselves are really uninteresting because they're completely decided by pre-battle factors. So world PVP games aren't really about PVP, they're about pre-PVP. Which makes for dull combat, which makes for less popular games (despite the mechanics actually being very casual-tilted.)
"What is truly revealing is his implication that believing something to be true is the same as it being true. [continue]" -John Oliver
Pvp servers always fill up when the game starts then die out as the game ages. Look at Wow, most of the pvp servers are very light now. Same will happen with SWTOR, but sooner as it does not have the staying power of Wow.
The playstyle preferences of people who will play a game on launch day do not match the playstyle preferences of people who will play a game a year after launch day. If a game has open-world PVP, then PVPers may want to get in at the start, so that they can level up while there aren't high levels around to gank them. PVE players have no need to get in early, as if anything, having a lot of high level players around makes things easier, not harder.
I'm surprised there are so many pvp servers, it's obvious there is a demand for them. And just because the demand may decrease as the game ages doesn't mean players don't want pvp. It might just mean the game in question doesn't provide good pvp, so players give up and either quit the game or move to pve servers.
Just for the record, I hate zerg pvp, I hate high level gankers who have nothing better to do than kill lowbies all day. And the vast majority of the open world pvp I experienced in WoW was win by the numbers or level 80 griefers. Not fun. Made me sorry I rolled on a pvp server.
And it wasn't just WoW. Most of the pvp I experienced in AoC and other MMOs was either win by numbers or bored high levels ganking low levels. Ridiculous. If that is all open world can provide, it's no wonder pvp servers empty out. There should be more. A reason to pvp and penalties for constantly being an asshat. Like whichever game was it that turned high levels into a chicken when they attacked low levels.
I am convinced there is only one way to eliminate these grave evils, namely through the establishment of a socialist economy, accompanied by an educational system which would be oriented toward social goals.
~Albert Einstein
Warhammer one of the better pvp games out there, just had terrible end game content lol.
EVE is no more casual than BF3 or LoL. That you are under the impression that it is just shows how wrong you are. Unless a game enforces explicitly hardcore mechanics within it's own genre, then it is the players and not the game which are, or are not "hardcore".
Sorry but as someone who actually does pvp in e-sport games I find your assumption that everyone (which is what your posts are implying) in them is taking part in hardcore pvp within a purely hardcore game really rather laughable.
Out progressing you opponent is an important part of war simulation and larger scale conflict and it is more (or at least is when done well) then being about having super armour +1 or another level. Eitherway you are slipping into your usual mistake of trying to use a standard progression mechanic within the mmorpg genre as a stick to try and beat a form of pvp with. World pvp can occur and can be done with or without traditional character level/skill mechanics. As such that argument has no merit at all.
Your mention of planetside is interesting. Ganks and zergs occur in games which place and arftifical limit on numbers on a larger map and the ganking and zerging occurs in pockets within the map. But guess what it is still a gank or a zerg all the same. Furthermore you again are trying to distil the combat down purely to smaller team combat within a larger area or zone. Which fails to realise that warfare simulation is and can be far more than that and it is these extra mechanics which are all part of the "pvp" which some people are interested in.
And no, spending time and effort planning out attacks, cutting supply lines, logistics, formig alliances and generally out maneuvering any and all put against you is not any more intrinsically "casual" then running about in a 5 man group /assit training everyone in front of you. It is also not "pre pvp", you are doing it in order to defeat your enemy and dominat e the game world, not just whoop his ass in one battle. PVP is the long game in world simluators, unless you fail to look past the one session log in zerg. Which is what you seem to be doing, as ever.
PvP does not equal small team e-sport. That is one version of pvp, nothing more, nothing less. Hence any notion of a form of pvp being more hardcore or casual than another or having any less or more merit is an utterly retarded point of view to take. Different forms of pvp offer different aspects and they can be considered "hardcore" or not when taken against other games trying to provide the same pvp experience.
Plenty of people seem to desire larger scale pvp in mmos and pvp servers. Plenty of developers are working on world pvp in one form or another or creating games with pvp servers. Within the genre more open pvp is obviously in enough demand to matter, so I am unsure as to the relevance of your popularity argument (that old chestnut) in this one.
"Come and have a look at what you could have won."