Howdy, Stranger!

It looks like you're new here. If you want to get involved, click one of these buttons!

General: The Lost Sense of Journey

2

Comments

  • fenistilfenistil Member Posts: 3,005

    Yeah I miss exploration too, but not only exploration. Many small things that made games feel like worlds and not like some small confined, artifical hmm separate "places".

     

    There were interdependancy, various microsystems working, sure they were flawed but they were there. Designers instread of fixing things, frequently cut off whole features both working and not working parts :(

     

    So exploration yes I miss it alot, but also player made economy, impact on game world (even if just by placing house or your own shopkeeper). That each server was totally separate world that could be totally diffrent from other one, etc

     

    I think that diffrences between for example Ultima Online or SWG and for example Rift - is so HUGE that it is totally diffrent kind of game. They both share "mmorpg" tag, but for me diffrence is so huge like between rts and turn based strategy like "Civilization".

    And I lost appeal for closed, confined world where only developers provide content and direction. Too small, too limited and too directed.

     

    Like for example : quest-tracker - Instead of fixing whole quest system by making LESSER amount of quests, but make them more complex, longer and interesting + providing better explanations, maybe some rough maps, etc - they sanctioned quest tracker - just changing mmorpg questing into "follow an arrow and kill 10 boars at the end" - blagh.

     

    Sure ppl will try to create add-ons even if quest would be interesting and unique. BUT there is a huge diffrence between miniority of players using add-on (besides game API can severely limit ability to use mods) and implementing it into game so ALL players use them, and thus giving another blow to socializing between players and using this as an excuse to making zillions of SHORT "bring 8 deer meat slabs" quests...



     

  • MindTriggerMindTrigger Member Posts: 2,596

    Originally posted by fenistil

    Yeah I miss exploration too, but not only exploration. Many small things that made games feel like worlds and not like some small confined, artifical hmm separate "places".

     

    There were interdependancy, various microsystems working, sure they were flawed but they were there. Designers instread of fixing things, frequently cut off whole features both working and not working parts :(

     

    So exploration yes I miss it alot, but also player made economy, impact on game world (even if just by placing house or your own shopkeeper). That each server was totally separate world that could be totally diffrent from other one, etc

     

    I think that diffrences between for example Ultima Online or SWG and for example Rift - is so HUGE that it is totally diffrent kind of game. They both share "mmorpg" tag, but for me diffrence is so huge like between rts and turn based strategy like "Civilization".

    And I lost appeal for closed, confined world where only developers provide content and direction. Too small, too limited and too directed.

    I agree that they are completely different kinds of games deserving of their own genre title.  The players themselves are so different that no one can even have a discussion about gameplay opinions without an all out war of words.  Even 'RPG' has been so watered down that it means virtually nothing now.

    A sure sign that you are in an old, dying paradigm/mindset, is when you are scared of new ideas and new technology. Don't feel bad. The world is moving on without you, and you are welcome to yell "Get Off My Lawn!" all you want while it happens. You cannot, however, stop an idea whose time has come.

  • PerfectBlendPerfectBlend Member Posts: 49

    Originally posted by MadnessRealm



    Originally posted by Lobotomist



    Lost sense of Journey was found...in Skyrim





    While it still have quest pointers on the map. And quick travel - but while travelling towards your goal, its enough to look left and right and ask yourself : "Oh look at that mountain peek, wonder whats there" or "Look , a dirt road leading to the forest...wonder whats there"





    And you are guaranteed to find another quest that will take few more hours.





    Actually, sometime I have to hold myself not to stray of the path..least i forget about my main quest.





    And since there is no QuestXP per se. You dont care about doing or finishing quests...





    You just do your thing, whatever you want :)





    Who knows, maybe one day we see this in MMOs ?





    Perhaps in Pathfinder MMO ?

    This!  That's mainly what drew me towards Skyrim so much.  Just roaming in the world, moving towards a quest only to be side-tracked by a group of bandits chasing a deer, which then leads me to a nearby cave that I end up exploring, completly forgetting about my initial goal. Playing Skyrim has given me bac that feeling of "Alright, off to chase that Drago-----Oooooh! What's this over there?" which has been completly forgotten in MMOs these days.

     

    Developers are not building Worlds anymore, they're just digging a tunnel and sometimes they end up digging 2 similar  tunnels only to meet each other again a bit further up. Exploration is dead, Risk and Consequences are dead, actions have little to no meaning and impact. It's all about going from Point A to Point B while killing or collecting 10 "x" constantly, and ends up with grinding gears for months at the same exact location. 




     

     

  • PerfectBlendPerfectBlend Member Posts: 49

    Those are my thoughts exactly when playin Skyrim! Just started but I havent felt this sense of living in a fully explorable world that feels at least semi real. 

    At first I wanted to take fast travel everywhere but eventually i just started movin around just to fight stuff and level my skills up... 

    Funny but quests just seem tired... I think I actually want an old school skill grind.

  • maplestonemaplestone Member UncommonPosts: 3,099

    The web is the enemy of mystery and exploration.  If spoilers/maps exist online, they might as well exist in-game.

  • ShadanwolfShadanwolf Member UncommonPosts: 2,392

    OP I agree with your pov. Now that type of travel (and dare I say immersion)is not for everyone. But for me...having distance actually meaning something....is great. I like the idea and feeling of "being way out there".Being truely alone.Fits my playstyle .Then I read there are 50 levels in SWTOR by December 20...and just bite my tongue.

  • MindTriggerMindTrigger Member Posts: 2,596

    Originally posted by maplestone

    The web is the enemy of mystery and exploration.  If spoilers/maps exist online, they might as well exist in-game.

    Interesting.  So when (if) you read a book, do you just skip to the last chapter?  How about movies?  Do you cheat in all games?

    I think cheat sites are indicative of the state of these themepark games.  People just want to rush to end-game and they will do so any way they can.  These games encourage this behavior by design.

    A sure sign that you are in an old, dying paradigm/mindset, is when you are scared of new ideas and new technology. Don't feel bad. The world is moving on without you, and you are welcome to yell "Get Off My Lawn!" all you want while it happens. You cannot, however, stop an idea whose time has come.

  • IsaneIsane Member UncommonPosts: 2,630

    Originally posted by BillMurphy

    If you read the article again, I lament the loss of expansive worlds while saying it's a good thing in other ways because there's more of a focus on true exploration and delving into a world.  In other words: long travel times is not exploration.  Getting side-tracked because you find yourself exhilerated by being off the beaten-path is.  ;)


     

    MMO's used to have worlds and story to play against; With the removal of the pure immenseness, need to travel , need to communicate , craft and sell, everything that made the original MMOs what they are has pretty much gone.

    Auto play and whack a mole is not what MMORPGs were ever really about ;

    The focus has been lost so I guess it is backj tpo small scale MUDs where at least you can find a community and people with IQs above 10.....

    I guess some of us just want to play a game sadly all the auto generating game content appears to have been removed and replaced with something that requires no effort and contains little gameplay.

    SAD but true.

    ________________________________________________________
    Sorcery must persist, the future is the Citadel 

  • PhoenixFhirePhoenixFhire Member Posts: 33

    Originally posted by WSIMike

    It seems to boil down to whether people are looking for a virtual world to immerse themself in, or are looking for a game to play and "win" at.

    Things are only "too slow" if you're in a hurry or have a pre-conceived idea of "how long it should take" or how long you want it to take. There is no all-ruling standard of "how long something should take to do" in a MMO, nor is there anyone to dictate such a rule.

    So, when those who are "anti time sink" insist that those who enjoyed those older, slower-paced MMOs "must have just enjoyed wasting their time"... they're basically losing the plot from the outset. That assertion serves only to illustrate how completely off they are in their perception of how others play and enjoy a MMO. Their entire point-of-view is based on the assumption that everyone shares the same approach to and expectations of MMOs as they do. And that's where they go completely wrong.

    It's not that those of us who prefer the slower pace of older MMOs "liked wasting our time on time sinks". It's that we didn't see them as time sinks to begin with. They were activities we could partake in, in a virtual world that we enjoyed being in to begin with.  Playing those old-school MMOs was about participating in a vast virtual world.. it wasn't about "getting to end-game as fast as possible". End-game was an abstract long-term thing that you'd get to.. eventually. It wasn't "the main reason to play an MMO to begin with". The "real game" started at level 1, not at level cap.

    To give specific personal examples...

    Leveing up a given job in FFXI was never "about grinding xp for hours" to me. It was about "hanging out and having fun with a group of players for hours"... killing mobs and getting xp is what we happened to be doing at the time. I might have been questing, I might have been doing a mission, I might have been sitting around in Lower Jeuno chatting. I might have been doing any number of things.

    I didn't see such things as a "waste of my time to slow me down" because I wasn't in a hurry to begin with.

    Leveling wasn't a "goal" to me. It was a given; something that happens automatically while you're playing the game. One of my sayings about that is "leveling is what happens while you're having fun doing other things." If I'm having fun and enjoying whatever it is I'm doing at the moment - even if it's sitting down somewhere talking to friends or guild-mates getting zero xp/hr - then I dont' care how long it takes me to level. There's no hurry. There's no finish line I'm racing toward. There's no reward for "getting there as fast as possible". End-game isn't some "holy grail" to me. It's part of the game that will be there, and I'll reach... when I get there. I'm far more interested in having fun with what I'm doing "right now". 

    For another, I find the whole mentality of "oh, those things are just time-sinks intended to drag the gameplay out so they can make more money" to be incredibly misplaced and unjustifiably cynical. I realize those making that statement think it's witty and  insightful.

    However, It isn't. 

    Among other reasons, those who make that argument (and many do), are missing - or outright ignoring - one very key detail that renders such an assertion moot:

    The only way a MMO developer is going to keep you playing longer is by keeping you entertained enough to keep playing in the first place.

    If you're not enjoying the game enough to keep playing it, then nothing beyond that matters, because you aren't going to be playing at all. What a developer may or may not do to "stretch out your game time" means fuck all if you're not playing their game at all.

    So, no... "implementing deliberate time sinks" is not how they keep people playing longer. Providing an entertaining experience that people want to continue playing is how they keep people playing longer. Everything after that is just content that players may choose to participate in or not.

    Complaining that MMOs are designed with long-term content is like complaining that motorcycles are designed with "only two wheels".  It's complaining about something being exactly what it's supposed to be. The motorcycle maker isn't at fault for making them with 2 wheels. The individual is at fault for expecting them to be something different.

    It's the same with MMOs.

    The developer isn't at fault because some random gamer only cares about getting to end-game more quickly. The random player is at fault for choosing to play a game that doesn't suit their preferences.






     




     

    I don't think I've seen anyone make this argument so cogently and well. I've been struggling to make this argument for a long time now, but you summed it up perfectly.

    I started with UO around 2000. No joke, I think it took me a year before I got my first GM in Magery. Why? It wasn't because a crappy player. I was just too busy trying out the various skills and just running or sailing around the world. This is how I still play games today.

    My younger brother is always on my case as to why I'm at least 10 levels behind him and not able "to pwn noobs." Too busy exploring. In WoW and EVE, there were days that all I did was run around. In EVE, I'm generally in Gal space. Instead of mining or running missions, I'll set course to some other random point in Empire. Thousands of systems, probably been to a couple hundred only.  In WoW, if I'm bored (of doing quests), I'll go to areas I've never been...and see if I can't set up a flight path for future use. I never said I wanted to run all the time.

    The last MMO I played was Aion. And my biggest problem with Aion was that, for such a beautiful world (the most beautiful game I've played so far), it was too small. On top of that, there area areas I can't go to because I'm above the level range or because it's a racial territory only. Blah.

    For those who think exploration is a waste of time, I wonder what you're real life is like. Are you always about getting fron Point A to Point B in the quickest way possible? Is the end all that matters for you? Fuck that. It might be worthwhile to get to Point B or C or D or even Z. But I'd rather spend my entire life seeing what's between each point and figuring out how I'm going to get there, not always using the path laid out before me.

  • eddieg50eddieg50 Member UncommonPosts: 1,809

    SWTOR really brings back the sense of Journey to me, the quests , the sense of story, it really makes me want to go out in the land and really role play, as a sith inquisitor you can back stab, play dirty politics (republicans- dems anyone) , kill your master or at least try, it immerses you into its world and we are so much the better for it

  • LeviathonlxLeviathonlx Member Posts: 135

    When playing ToR I thought to myself how the game is kinda neat with the actually forcing me to see a zone as I travel but then I also looked at the fact that I felt like I was in Aion again following a railroad with cliffs on both sides restricting me to a very small area I actually could explore. Skyrim for example wa a truely open area where I actually got the sense of journeying in a large open world (or just a country in that case).

  • toddzetoddze Member UncommonPosts: 2,150

    As with TOR and the other over simplified themeparks, I dont see a rollercoaster ride a journey. To me a journey is something I can controll, I can take detours go where I want do what I want. Being lead along like a puppet isnt a journey IMO. but to each his own on this one.

    Waiting for:EQ-Next, ArcheAge (not so much anymore)
    Now Playing: N/A
    Worst MMO: FFXIV
    Favorite MMO: FFXI

  • AmarantharAmaranthar Member EpicPosts: 5,852

    Originally posted by maplestone

    The web is the enemy of mystery and exploration.  If spoilers/maps exist online, they might as well exist in-game.

    Put that whole "web" thing to use. Make mysteries that the players can work on as a whole. Both Skyrim's series and the Ultima's did this, and I'm sure other games did too.

    I mean, in real life, lets take the mystery of Stonehenge. Or any of a thousand mysteries of the past. It's not a case of there being a level grind to the answer, and if you want to do it yourself you don't read what every Tom, Dick, and Harry has already done. Jeeze, where did these candies come from that have to have everything planned out and given to them? Why can't things be deeper, harder, worldly?

    There is no mystery if the answer is "this way".  And there is no meaning to solving the mysteries.

     

    Once upon a time....

  • NanfoodleNanfoodle Member LegendaryPosts: 10,922
    You play in a large open world 1-2 times and its fun but after that it gets old unless you can progress your char at a reasonable rate while doing it. Modern MMOs and the guild in them don't smell the roses. So to keep up any type of game play needs to reward you. How can you make exploration equal to questing? I have a real life and don't make a living gaming. I want to get in and so the things I love the most about MMOing and log off before my wife yells at me. I need to have a sense of accomplishment in 1-2 hours. So does most of us old school gamers. The new gamers only know one speed... fast and give it to me now. Life's to short to smell the roses in a video game. I want to do that in real life.
  • Stx11Stx11 Member Posts: 415

    Originally posted by Shadanwolf

    OP I agree with your pov. Now that type of travel (and dare I say immersion)is not for everyone. But for me...having distance actually meaning something....is great. I like the idea and feeling of "being way out there".Being truely alone.Fits my playstyle .Then I read there are 50 levels in SWTOR by December 20...and just bite my tongue.

    I've actually enjoyed "the journey" in SWTOR a lot more than any other game I've played for years (and much more than I expected). I was in Early Access. My highest level character hit 11 today. I liked wandering into all the nooks and corners of every place I can.

    It's not as expansive as SWG, and I think GW2's approach is going to be even better, but I don't find it nearly as bad as that early rant... er... poster felt.

    I think the best designs (and the future of the genre) can be found in games with "multiple paths" to appeal to different types of players. CoH and GW1 (and it looks like even moreso in GW2) are the best I've played at that so far. Tie in character power level to the region or content and not some arbitrary "character level" so characters can can experience a challenge no matter how many times they've been there, can go at their own pace but still viably group up with others at anytime - the games that do this will have loyal players for a long, long time.

  • maplestonemaplestone Member UncommonPosts: 3,099



    Originally posted by MindTrigger

    Interesting.  So when (if) you read a book, do you just skip to the last chapter?  How about movies?  Do you cheat in all games?

    Absolutely.  I prefer to get my lore from wikis rather than novels.  I'm honestly not a fan of reading prose for the sake of prose no matter how artfully it's written - I read to get the information contained in the prose.

    On the subject of cheating, it depends how you define "cheat".  I have a very low tolerance to wandering around searching for something/someone or deciphering what random sequence of levers to pull, so in old RPGs, I'd just download a walkthrough and play through it.   Well, this isn't entirely true - I happily completed many games without walkthroughs, but I found that walkthroughs didn't damage my enjoyment of a game, while getting hopelessly lost trying to remember names or directions sometimes did.

     

    Don't get me wrong - I love exploring the unknown.  I love just generating minecraft worlds.  I still play roguelike ascii games with their random dungeons.  I loved brainstorming the Inu arc of completely off-the-wall puzzle events in UO.   Aimless wandering is fun.  But once a goal is identified, I have a low tolerance for frustration and am quick to jump to the spoiler sites.  I research Eve missions online.  I'll search for the location of a drop in WoW rather than aimlessly stumbling around.

     

    Let me put it this way: I love searching haystacks when I don't know what's in them, but I hate searching for a needle in a haystack once the game tells me that's what I need to find.


     

  • BlackUhuruBlackUhuru Member Posts: 770

    Stripped down is a good way to put it... SWTOR is a perfect example of stripped down rpg and all your left with is killing mobs or instanced PvP.

     

    There is hope in the future and games like Archeage look promising. But for now it look's like the console games are the new mmorpg's.

    "It would be awesome if you could duel your companion. Then you could solo pvp".--Thanes

  • AlBQuirkyAlBQuirky Member EpicPosts: 7,432

    I agree 100%.

    I am an "explorer" type of player.  I enjoy the journey, not the destination.  There are plenty of times I am grateful for the auto-"ZIP!  I'm there" type of travel, but I usually travel to explore the world I am in.

    As for those saying this is a time-sink, all I can say is...  If you enjoy doing the activity, whatever it may be, who cares?  I think gear grinding is a time sink because I don't enjoy the activity.  I DO enjoy walking/running in the world to see what is "over there", so it is not a timne sink for me.

    Basically, I see 2 different play styles here.  One is focused on the journey and the other is focused on the destination.  Both types are viable and should be available.

    - Al

    Personally the only modern MMORPG trend that annoys me is the idea that MMOs need to be designed in a way to attract people who don't actually like MMOs. Which to me makes about as much sense as someone trying to figure out a way to get vegetarians to eat at their steakhouse.
    - FARGIN_WAR


  • AeolronAeolron Member Posts: 648
    If you want to get lost in a game and never hit that same location twice. One word play everquest , I guarantee you'll miss the flight paths. After spending over a decade in eq I can tell you that no other game in history is as big as eq in land mass.
  • umcorianumcorian Member UncommonPosts: 519

    Good write-up Bill.

    As an old veteran from Ultima Online, I can say some of the most fun I've ever had in a game was running from Britain, looking desperately for trees I could chop in order to make bows to sell for money. I'd often run half-way to Vesper (easily 20 minute run), just searching for these trees. All the while, you never knew what you'd encounter. A wolf I can fight and skin for my tailor friend? An evil player intent on murdering me to get my stuff. Or an air elemental I had to RUN from!

    I remember in the EQ days where seeing low-level Erudites in Felwithe was every bit as alluring as having a fancy title. That was a journey worthy of an achivement. I spent hours on my character exploring every inch of Velious and Kunark. I found mob spawns that *no one* seemed to know about on my server and would often take a few friends with me to them. Every few minutes, they would ask me nervously: "Are you sure about this?" as leaving the beaten track in EQ back in the day could result in days, if not weeks, of character work being undone.

    As much as I liked WoW, Rift and love SWTOR, these experiences in UO and EQ were what hooked me on the MMO genre. While the above stories could be seen as annoyances to some, It was immersive. You often forgot you weren't living in this world. I think all players want their games to be immersive, something that's become harder and harder as people get hooked on the easier ways of doing things.

  • someforumguysomeforumguy Member RarePosts: 4,088

    My problems with long journeys usually come from questdesign and not how large the world is.

    - When a quest in point A sends me to some spot in point B to kill mobs and then requires me to immediately go back again to point A for the reward AND then often sends me back AGAIN along the same road to the same area in point B, I feel the need to kick the developer that came up with that quest.

    - When I have to slaughter mobs to reach a npc with a quest and then that same npc asks me to slaughter those same mobs that I just killed and acts as if I never did that before even though I was doing that in his view, I want to kill the npc instead,

    - Fed Ex quests to other cities and then in some cases even having to travel back.

    These are just some typical examples that really can make travelling boooooooooring. It has nothing to do with exploring or the size of the world. Its about being forced to travel along the same road again and again which makes it so annoying.

    There are more reasons that add to the boredom of traveling. Making your inventory tiny and let it fill with useless crap from killing so you have to travel back too often for selling is another one.

    I like to explore new places and in some games I use(d) to do that (Vanguard, Fallen Earth, SWG, Anarchy Online), but I hate it if I'm forced to travel too often along the same downtrodden path.

  • JackyD30JackyD30 Member Posts: 20

    MMO's have lost far more than their sense of journey. In the beginning they were meant to be multiplayer fantasy world simulators, kind of like a social experiment. Alot of the features that today are seen as money milking time sinks were key features of the RPG genre and alot of us who played these games came to the genre for one purpose only, to expand their RPG experience beyond the weekly pen and paper session with half a dozen pals and to meet and socialise in these environments with people from around the world.

    Today they have degenerated to no more than shallow lobby games, as the "open world" gives the impression of being no more than a shallow lobby where you login in to team up with your guildmates to run some form of private instance, be it PvE or PvP. Their is hardly anymore incentive to to socialize outside of your guild and even then, need something crafted? log in to one of your crafting alts that you've leveled to max crafting in the span of 3 days. The only interaction outside of /g nowadays revolves mostly around trolling general chat and being a dick to everybody that's not part of ones guild.

    So after the rant, back on topic. EQ Imho did it rigth, you had fast travel options Druid/Wizard ports, then later the Nexus pillars and further down the line PoK but you could not reach every zone using fast travel and often you had to cross 2-3 more zones on foot until you got where you needed to be and most often these were crawling with mobs that would tear the unwary group to shreds. There was a real sense of exploration and danger, where is the danger in todays outdoor zones? Yes I thought so there is none.

    The things that once made the genre so great for me a lost forever in the bulk of AAA titles releasing mostly on a monthly basis nowadays and after jumpin' throu the loophole of playing alot of the major releases since 2003 and always getting more and more disappointed with where the genre is going. I'm more than happy to have finally taken up EVE in 2007, although I'd prefer to play in a fantasy setting, that still craves to the niche and in which I have a blast, where the journey and all the dangers that come with it are still present and where social interaction is the key to success.

    Don't mind me, I'm just an old Vet who wishes he had more options in his gaming library than 2 titles that are over a decade old and are fairly outdated (EQ & UO) and the only Fantasy MMO that came out in the past coupe of years that would've suited my needs havin been torn apart by macroers and eploiters (DF).

    Rant over, I've become bitter enough, time to go gather some space tears!

  • OzmodanOzmodan Member EpicPosts: 9,726

    Great Post Bill.  Could not have stated it better.

    I would also say there has been a huge lessening of the journey to end game too.  Only takes about two weeks for a moderately dedicated SWTOR player to reach it.  Then what are they going to do beside raid or create alts?

    The problem as I see it, these big companies are building these games for the "I want it now" group.  That is who they see as the focus for their games.  So they build these games where there is zero mystery, just someone holding your hand all the way.  Where is the fun in that?  No adventure for sure.

    Anyone trying to tell us there is a journey in SWTOR, just does not understand the meaning of the word.

  • BattlerockBattlerock Member CommonPosts: 1,393
    I have to agree with the timesink comments being less than desireable, I like exploration, I don't like being forced to travel though, traveling for exploration is one thing, traveling for the sake of time killing is exhausting, I have already canceled my swtor sub, way to much running, need to see my trainer I just lvled, fly to some other world after you ran ten miles and run another ten miles, here is your trainer. Pick up a quest run for 20 minutes begin questng, run for 20 more, running and traveling on a taxi is just downtime in my book, its a waste. On the bright side at least I can go back to exploring other games.
  • wahala99wahala99 Member UncommonPosts: 147

    MMMMMK.  In my mind, MMO's are not a world at all.  They are imiganary playgrounds that spring from the minds of the game developers.  The goal of those developers is for ME to have fun.  The more fun, the more likely I am to pay the cost .. thusly leading to the profit of the company who made the thimng in the first place.  If they can make running for an hour fun, wih eastereggs and explorable landscape with some sort of reward .. then cool.  If you have to run for an hour just because they did not have time or immagination enough to create some sort of faster travel mechanism ... and you are just running and it is not fun ... then ... well I am not gonna stay as long (unless of course the things I am running between are enough fun to offset the boredom).  I do not think there is any MMO "feature" that is put there as a time sink.  Hell, the whole game is a time sink.

    I really enjoy seeing all the ideas that the devs come up with to make fun things for me to see and do.  I am the type who wants to make a char of each kind and play it through (as long as it is fun) to see the different ideas used.  I do not care if the game is not a "real" MMO (according to the everquest lovers ... or nostalgists ... hmmm I wonder why they are not all playing everquest anymore), all I care about is that the game is fun, intriguiging, surprising, moving, and deep enough to be interesting (to ME).  If there are a few thousand other players to play with, watch, and occasionally group up with ... so much the better.

    I (a die hard WoW fanboy) have to say that SWTOR has a lot of stuff that has these qualities that make it fun for me (at least for now).  Heh, I had my Sith Warrior dancing wih a "groupie" in a canteena last night, and it looked like they were really dancing .. together .. cool .. in the mean time I was sending my companions on Missions and making a little money.  And sort of resting from questing (hey a rhyme).

    FUN is the final weight that makes an MMO or breaks it.  Not whether it is a sandbox, or you can get lost or you have to walk 10 miles uphill in the snow (unless of course those things are fun for you).  I do not think MMO's can be Lumped together or that there is one MMO that will be the be all end all, or that just because MMO "A" does not have some (or all) ot the things of MMO "B". that it is "bad for the genre".   If its fun ... Bring it on!!!!

    Just my Opinion  :)

     

     

    If Ya Ain't Dyin, Ya Ain't Tryin

Sign In or Register to comment.