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The Bounty Hunter.. a saving grace in SWTOR
sanosukex
Member Posts: 1,836
For people who have been following posts here they know me and many others have been very critical on many aspects of the game.. For me I can look past all that and enjoy the game as long as combat is enjoyable since it's pretty much what you spend the largest chunk of your time in an MMO doing. Now the issue I have is to me melee combat in this game is awful. The animations while nice to look at on there own do not flow well when actually playing and in pvp its a lot worse.
I feel one issue is the lack of auto attack which keeps the attack animations continually happening and without it things feel off. Now for ranged it's really not as noticable or even noticable at all for that matter. Either way I have played every class now to at least level 15 and can say if it were not for the BH/trooper combat I probably would just stop playing all together. To me when playing these classes everything just feels right, the animations, the skills it all works so well together.
It bothers me a lot because obviously being star wars who doesn't wan't to jump in lightsabers flashing and slice some baddies but for me it just feels so awkward and clunky it takes away from the whole experience.
Anyway the real reason I'm writing this is anyone who finds the melee side of combat somewhat of a drag give the trooper or bounty hunter a shot and you might come to really enjoy the combat
Comments
Things change a lot beyond level 15 for many classes. To give an example: agent operative only has access to a few melee abilities at that time, only around 21 does it gain more as well as some crucial support skills so you won't be waiting on cd's to end so much. Imo most other themeparks have much shallower combat at lower levels and like in pretty much every other one, it gets more complex and fun along the way.
My brand new bloggity blog.
I agree with a BUT, the force-users get more and cooler animations the higher level they get.
It never quite looks like Jedi Academy (one of the game with the best lightsaber combat imo) but it gets a lot more attractive.
M
operative is actually my highest char at 25.. complexity isn't the issue its just the actual feel or flow of combat that I have a problem with and the melee side to me just does'nt feel right at all
http://www.mmorpg.com/discussion2.cfm/thread/339443/Video-FollowUp-Guide-For-Enhancing-Graphics-and-Performance-in-SWTORSorry-still-Nvidia-Only.html
granted I haven't actually played at 50 but i did watch lots of level 50 pvp fights from beta on youtube and it still looks just as bad as it feels playing melee at 15ish
http://www.mmorpg.com/discussion2.cfm/thread/339443/Video-FollowUp-Guide-For-Enhancing-Graphics-and-Performance-in-SWTORSorry-still-Nvidia-Only.html
I agree with the OP on this.
During headstart I got a Marauder to 35. It was awful. By far the worste class in the game. In PvE he was a beast, but in PvP he was god awful, and it's for the same reasons sanosuke states. The more you play the melee classes (the few of them that there are) you start to notice that they were basically designed for PvE (where you basically stand still and attack). They have channelled skills which you cannot use while moving, and they also have skills that have really long CDs and extremely short durations. Almost no realy anti-CC skills, and apart from the jugg / guardian class no real survivability skills either.
I immediately switched back to a Sniper (my main class in beta) and never looked back. It's not only a very fun class for both PvE and PvP, but It's a lot more versatile. This game most definitely favors ranged classes, and while it is fun to have a lightsaber, the melee combat just isn't that smooth. I stuck it out through 35, but it just doesn't get better at higher lvls, if anything it gets worse (and by 35 you have nearly all the skills you are ever going to get, there are only 3 more you get after that, which all have pretty long CDs.
From what I've played, the Trooper / BH are also very fun to play, hard to kill, and have enough range that they are hard to kite as well.
depends on what you're talking about.
Viable in PvP? - Pure melee classes (warrior/knight) seem to be somewhat underpowered without support, yes.
Concerning style? - At least the moves of the dual wielding classes and the dual saber classes look badass imo. They don't connect together too well in PvP, that's true, but they look allright considering what the game has to pull off with MMO PvP. In fact, SWGs lightsabers looked far worse in PvP. FAR worse.
Concerning general versatility? - I think its only the Knight/Warrior that tend to be a bit one dimensional hacky/slashy. Both sage and shadow (the classes i played to 20ish) are very viable and versatile in PvP. My buddy rolled a smuggler and loves it at lvl 25 atm. Bounty Hunter is probably the most coherent and well pulled off class concept in the whole game; At least thats what most people tell you. So to me, three of four classes look nice allright.
i really couldn't get into the cover aspect to enjoy the sniper.. to me I like the run and gun type play in pvp so BH/Trooper is what works for me:)
http://www.mmorpg.com/discussion2.cfm/thread/339443/Video-FollowUp-Guide-For-Enhancing-Graphics-and-Performance-in-SWTORSorry-still-Nvidia-Only.html
my issue isn't anything with how viable or how good a class is in pvp.. its the feel of combat itself its how the abilities flow together and how they look when you are attacking others.. like said earlier in pve its not as obvious since your enemy is generally just standing still but PVP it just feels like a mess and very akward.. bounty hunter to me just feels like everything fits into place better when fighting compared to the other classes... oh and I never played jedi in SWG but it didn't look to bad http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Fjzz_ZZN7sA&feature=related
http://www.mmorpg.com/discussion2.cfm/thread/339443/Video-FollowUp-Guide-For-Enhancing-Graphics-and-Performance-in-SWTORSorry-still-Nvidia-Only.html
The flame thrower attacks made beta tolerable.
Bounty Hunter had a lot of thought put in to it and it was fun feeling like something more than a glass cannon.
Bounty Hunter is up there with LotRO's Captain class to me. Just one of those odd mixes that there should be more of in themepark games.
I used to play MMOs like you, but then I took an arrow to the knee.
I am a fan of both IA and BH even though BH is my first love since beta. I actually leveled BH to lvl 50 and i am doing it all over agan at release. But IA is very close second and is a great class once you get into 20's. IA's gear is so muh more cooler than BH in looks department. Snipers are just too damn sexy.
How many servers SWTOR will launch with on release?
ShredderSE - Umm how many do they need? Maybe 6.
US, EU, Asian, France, German and Russian.
Subs will be so low there is no need for more
Snoocky-How many servers?
The first 3 months a lot...after that 2 i guess, one for PVE and 1 for PVP...
Thorbrand - SWTOR doesn't have longevity at all. Might be one of the shortest lived MMOs.
true IA does have some badass gear
http://www.mmorpg.com/discussion2.cfm/thread/339443/Video-FollowUp-Guide-For-Enhancing-Graphics-and-Performance-in-SWTORSorry-still-Nvidia-Only.html
That's a promotional video. This http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F2iqgWxRBRA&feature=related is more like it really looked. In PvP areas with skirmish fights left and right, it even looked more detached and downright weird at times.
Now I don't say there's nothing wrong with saber combat animation in TOR, but I think they did an ok job there.
Designing ranged combat to look awesome is always easy. Even in games where PvP melee combat looks utterly ridiculous, like Vanguard, ranged combat looks somewhat acceptable.
M
ha yea promo videos always do look nicer.. I guess its acceptable but to me it just takes away the fun of combat and since thats what I'm doing 80% of the time I might as well play a class that feels right.. I think the issue like said earlier is to many animations just don't work well or at all in PVP and yea it is sort of a MMO thing but looking at videos of blade & soul and TERA they have all those flashy combat animations but they all look very smooth and look like they work very well in melee and not so disconnected like it feels here. For example you see some where you can knock enemies into the air teleport up to them do a couple moves and drop them to the groud(blade & soul I beleive would have to look around youtube for it).. neat stuff
http://www.mmorpg.com/discussion2.cfm/thread/339443/Video-FollowUp-Guide-For-Enhancing-Graphics-and-Performance-in-SWTORSorry-still-Nvidia-Only.html
I guess I'm the odd one then. When I see the melee animations I get into it. The basic melee attack has VARIABLE animations. (not just swing from right side to left side). The sound effects are amazing with the singing and contact sounds, and the reaction of NPCs when struck, make it feel like your putting weight into your blow and it has a response.
What MMO melee combat are you comparing it too thats better? AOC maybee.
actually any I find better... not the animations per say but just how the skills flow with the differn't animation combos and how they effect the oppenent.. was doing a flashpoint with two jedi knights and two of us were shadows the animations were just all over the place it just didn't feel right at all.. I will agree sound effects are very nice though
http://www.mmorpg.com/discussion2.cfm/thread/339443/Video-FollowUp-Guide-For-Enhancing-Graphics-and-Performance-in-SWTORSorry-still-Nvidia-Only.html
yea comes down to how many flaws in combat animation you can accept until you lose interest . I play a Jedi Shadow so there's always ranged elements and force powers especially in PvP and not 100% melee. I don't know how I'd handle a knight. AND I was used to SWGs saberfights and they really did look worse than anything in TOR.
And yes, there are certainly games that did melee combat very well. Aion comes to mind, or Age of Conan. But honestly, besides Age of Conan I have a feeling that asian MMOs always focus a lot more on flashy combat animations than western MMOs. There are many western MMOs I've played where melee combat looks WAY worse than TOR's, LotRO for example, or Everquest 2, even Rift...
M
Agree with EQ2 and LOTRO melee is dreadful in those.. rift I enjoyed though rogue was my favorite class by far.. perhaps because it was a lot quicker and more twitch you don't really notice it much in rift.. very true about the asian MMOs and the flashy melee they have always been big on the flashy melee
http://www.mmorpg.com/discussion2.cfm/thread/339443/Video-FollowUp-Guide-For-Enhancing-Graphics-and-Performance-in-SWTORSorry-still-Nvidia-Only.html
Sano, Imo with this post you helped people and the game more than these "incredible and best ever" posts.
From what I read the stories and experiences vary in good or bad. Plus I often read the Dark Side is "cooler", human instinct I guess.
If this is the case, then some more people should write into ToRs suggestion forum to pimp Class+Story X a bit up.
I've always said I want this game to do well but for me I beleive In order for it to do well some changes really need to be made and I'm usually vocal about what i feel needs work but either way it's a fun game and with some changes I feel it could be an amazing game.
http://www.mmorpg.com/discussion2.cfm/thread/339443/Video-FollowUp-Guide-For-Enhancing-Graphics-and-Performance-in-SWTORSorry-still-Nvidia-Only.html
I have a sith assassin lvl 30 and I get what you are feeling OP, it is probably the fact that most animations are shorter than the overall GCD, personally a damage nerf in 50%, with force/whatever resource the class uses upped doubled they should just make GCD half of what it is atm.
Doing damage, and then waiting 0.5 sec with my character doing nothing just feels really off, GCD is an ancient mechanic overall and new games should not have it or start thinking about something else tbh
"I am not a robot. I am a unicorn."
yea this is a HUGE topic of debate over on the official forums.. people are really going crazy about it over there
http://www.mmorpg.com/discussion2.cfm/thread/339443/Video-FollowUp-Guide-For-Enhancing-Graphics-and-Performance-in-SWTORSorry-still-Nvidia-Only.html
Marauder is a late bloomer, they do get good with some heavy talent investment. Definitely the weakest melee until much later.
Assassins and melee specced IA do some nasty damage if they manage to get you from behind.
The tanks skills are amazing for group pvp, guard can stop people from focus firing a healer, taunt also lowers the damage done by an enemy to anyone on your team except yourself.
Melee classes are better at snares than ranged classes. Which is useful in games like Huttball or Voidstar.
The 'ranged is better than melee' arguement pops up with every MMO, but its usually far from the truth, its just players not using the existing tools properly.
I dont mind the melee animations, the lightsabres parry animations look good and the combat art animations flow well from what I have seen (Juggernaut and Assassin to 30, Marauder to 20). It does look silly when people jump around in circles in PvP, no idea why they do that... it doesnt make them any less easy to kill.
I actually do "get it" with regards to "flowing combat" but I myself think it's the restrictions of a hotbar & gcd's that are a large part of the problem, I'd rather SWTOR had gone further in the direction that Kingdoms of Amalur is taking in terms of control & flow (though a lot less Over the top with that game's 'juggle combo' animation system defying all the laws of physics to such a degree it ends up looking ridiculously arcade-game like - kept more realistic it would be amazing, as it is that looks a little too far fetched altogether).
agree its a combination with the gcd and animation times just don't make this work very well.. also the interaction with other players especially other melee just doesn't feel right at all.. blaster deflection is nice on lightsabers but besides that most others just dont work very well imho
http://www.mmorpg.com/discussion2.cfm/thread/339443/Video-FollowUp-Guide-For-Enhancing-Graphics-and-Performance-in-SWTORSorry-still-Nvidia-Only.html
Iam playing an operative around the same level, never had such a weak melee class in pvp.....its gimped if you compare to other classes around the same level.
I have 3 melee attacks:
* Backstab (9 sec cooldown)
* Shiv (6 sec cooldown)
* Laceration (needs tactical advantage)
The dmg output is that low in comparison to other classes in this lvl range, feels like a broken class if we talk about pure melee abilities. Other classes just spam their melee or have way higher attacks i.e. Assassin. Maybe this class is a late bloomer, but the pvp balance is horrible in close combat so far.