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"Challenge" ... this game can has it.
DarkPony
Member Posts: 5,566
One of my biggest fears before I got to play SWTOR (and I patiently waited with that until the pre-launch) was whether it would be too easy and not challenging enough and maybe catering for a crowd with less experience in playing mmorpgs.
This was also based on beta impressions from players who complained that the difficulty was turned down as well as the experiences from players at demo's (who played with toned down difficulty settings). Of course most of that was based on weekenders and the starter planet content should naturally be more forgiving than the stuff you'll be doing later on.
Now, at level 33 and playing the content intended for my level, I can confidently say that there is plenty of aspects in which the game is far, far from "easy mode"; I actually just died three times trying to defeat a key npc of my level in my class quest and eventually had to give up and postpone it (I really prefer having no outside help on those).
- Class storylines have key npc's to defeat which can be almost TOO hard for players of the same level. Doable but you need to have everything sorted.
- Some non-heroic quests idem dito.
- Instances as well as heroic quests aren't easy at all after the first one or two: expect to wipe if someone makes an obvious mistake or if your party isn't cooperating well. Two manning + 2 companions is only viable in the first few instances as far as I can tell. (Unless you out-leveled them, of course).
- I've seen multiple huge world bosses which require raids to defeat. (Touch the skull in the Dune Sea and see what happens *chuckles*).
- Each class has a very wide range of skills to its disposal; becoming a master at using them effectively is a challenge on its own accord, especially in pvp.
- Picking the right companion to use, using the right skills and stances and kitting it out properly is another required aspect for much solo content.
- Repair bills get pretty damn expensive. Yesterday I paid 7k to repair my gear, my total bankroll at the time was 100k; the better your gear, the higher the bill.
- The normal solo quest trash mobs aren't so hard, because you'll be pretty much fighting them in groups of 2 to 4 all the time yet there are plenty of elites to fight pretty much everywhere (also outside of elite areas) and those can be a lot harder. Normally I'm ok with soloing a single elite of my level but add another one and I am in trouble.
- Even the blasted space on rails game gets increasingly harder: right now there are a few missions which I simply can't complete due to my ship's upgrades not being up to par.
And I haven't even done hard mode flaspoints & operations yet ...
The above is from my personal experience with a 33 operative. Other classes might have an easier time but the game really urges me to get the most out of my (and my companion's) skills, gear, buffs and tactics. The game has a habbit of kicking you straight in the groin as soon as you get overly confident. Personally I like it that way and I am relieved it isn't so "easy mode" as I feared and I hope Bioware won't cave in to complaints about the difficulty.
Anyone else similar experiences?
Comments
Finding groups for heroics/flashpoints without a proper LFG tool is the only challenge in SWTOR!
I had to wait a level before I could finish my smuggler ship quest. I died 4 times before I finally gave up. I was fully buffed and used stims and consular buffs and still couldn't do it. After leveling one more level and training, It still took me 2 times to do it. I welcome challenges like this instead of the easy mode. It actually forces you to stop and think for a change.
Yes, some content can be quite challenging. Although, I mostly play in the Warzones. I find that helps me set up the best rotations, and helps me make quick decisions.
I am disappointed in the lack of an LFG tool.
Is the NPC you're having a hard time with at the end of Chapter 1? If so, I know who you're talking about and yeah, you really need to be on your game with interrupts to beat him. I died a few times but eventually got it. It's a very challenging fight, to say the least. If you change your mind about tips, just hit send me a PM and I'll tell you a few things that will make the fight a bit easier.
I agree with you on the rest of the game as well. Some of the heroic missions are just brutal, and elite mobs are certainly no joke either. I also can solo a single elite without too much hassle, but if another one aggros I'm pretty much dead if my cloaking screen is on CD. I also find myself using sleep dart/slice droid whenever possible to help even out the odds.
Despite what some folks who post on these forums would have people believe, this game is NOT easy. Not by a long shot.
Challenge, aye. I'm going to need another level or two to finish the current class story quest i'm on.
My wife and I are leveling together. She has an inquisitor healer and I have an inquisitor tank. Our companions dps. We've tackled some tough content but some of the +4 heroic quest areas are brutal and the respawn is without mercy. I like how BW made normal, silver, gold, and boss mobs. You have to check out the group you're approaching and see if they peppered in a beast with that harmless looking group of normals.
Its a real challenge and a lot of fun. I really like having not only multiple looks from different mob groups, but the toolset to change up the approach accordingly. We can go into a group full on aoe mode, or cc and take down one at a time or a combination of both which is usually the case on tougher areas.
We've died a few times and have had to ditch our companions and team up with other people in the area to finish some of this stuff off. Its a nice mixture of action and strategy.
I sit on a man's back, choking him and making him carry me, and yet assure myself and others that I am very sorry for him and wish to ease his lot by all possible means - except by getting off his back.
Is there anything that stops you from saying, I'm going to go at the same content a few levels higher to make everything easy? Because if not, then the game has no more notion of challenge than most other MMORPGs. If you were to take WoW and decrease the "intended" level of all content by 5 but change nothing about the content itself, would that suddenly make WoW a hard game?
Its a challenge because a group of mobs will have some that take cover and cannot be kited and some that CC you with a force choke or blind. You rarely get a single mob, so you kind of have to go in with a game plan. I'm speaking of challenge in the sense of unpredictable situations that force you to make adjustments. I'm not speaking of challenges that make you bash your head repeatedly against a wall.
My character has a variety of moves. I use them all depending on the situation. That is what I consider a fun challenge in the realm of mmo combat.
I sit on a man's back, choking him and making him carry me, and yet assure myself and others that I am very sorry for him and wish to ease his lot by all possible means - except by getting off his back.
yep, and lack of guild recruitment tool
Yeah, because talking to people is really hard. Stop with this nonsense.
Darkpony, I feel ya. I just hit 29 today and I'm finding myself needing to take multiple shots at many of my class quest end mobs to get them down. Seems to be getting tougher and tougher. In fact, I'm now sticking around for the bonus series quests in zones, PvP'ing, and doing my daily space combat missions just so I can enter a new zone a level or two ahead of the game because the content is very challenging. And that damn escort space combat mission I got at level 28 is the devil. I can't seem to finish it.
So yeah, this game has presented more challenge in the first 29 levels for me than WoW, Lotro, or Rift ever did, outside of dungeons and raids.
You're completely missing the point. Of course you can do that in this game, and any other MMO. But in most other MMOs, you wouldn't have to even CONSIDER doing that. In this one, you sometimes do. Every single class quest chain for every planet ends with you having to solo an elite boss once you are in the core worlds. It's doable, but you really have to be on your game after level 20 or so.
Would gaining a few levels and somewhat better gear be enough to make the fight pretty trivial? Or would you still have to constantly adjust your tactics to each particular battle?
A large fraction of the battles in most MMORPGs can be a decent challenge if your level and gear are tuned to just the right strength. The problem is that the window in which the fight is a decent challenge is usually pretty narrow, and that the game strongly encourages you to pick almost entirely battles that are pretty trivial. Is SWTOR different in that regard?
Does this mean that you get a challenge only every now and then? Or are a large fraction of the routine battles tuned to be challenging?
I completely agree theres actually a ton of challenging content, i was very worried that it would be too easy aswell like you.
I've had no problems finding groups, but it does require work.
SWTOR... Challanging. seriously, i was soloing heroic quests through the majority of it.
Because i can.
I'm Hopeful For Every Game, Until the Fan Boys Attack My Games. Then the Knives Come Out.
Logic every gamers worst enemy.
@Pony
yea i am 34 right now and have noticing the increasing difficultly. it was most apparent in the Taral V flashpoint(a republic only flashpoint) i was running today. the bonus boss and final boss were just plain nasty
Glad to read that some people have very similar experiences
My brand new bloggity blog.
My Jugg is 29 and my Merc is 30, both having reached Alderaan by now. I can tell the difficulty has increased as I finish fights with less health than previously, and I know that if I was just mashing buttons rather than being very deliberate about ability and enemy priorities there would have been situations in which I would have died.
The difficulty of the game seems to start very low and very slooowly ramp up. Though I was still able to solo several heroic missions on Tatooine with my Juggs despite him not having any CC or being too high level for the mobs.
OP hit that one right on the head. There is nothing "easy" about this game. My Assasin had to move up a couple of levels and spend money on top notch gear just to defeat Darth Skotia (Followers of this storyline know who this is.) My Mercenary had to do similiar with one of his bountys. You also have to be careful about sending all your companions away because you can get jumped by mobs while exploring.
By the way for those whining about it, you don't need a LFG function to do group missions. Learn to use chat and learn to socialize like normal people do. The genre did just fine for many years without it. Players need to learn how to do this again. I hope Biowarer NEVER listens to the whiners asking for this along with other easy mode features. Learn to play the game. Stop asking for "daddy" to make things easy.
Currently Playing: World of Warcraft
YEa, Leave 30 seems to be the game pusher when it comes to dificulty, Also on alderaan whit my shadow and also seeing that I end up whit more downtime for healing/rest then I used to have.
Dint keep me from beating a champion lvl 30 boss (egual level) but I needed to spread the fight using all my ability's and heal myself using my biochem medpack 3 times. I hate those sorcerers sith tho.. they tend to outdamage my Tank ability and heals fairly easy.
I agree with my little pony friend, The game is more challenging then any other recently released PvE based MMO. On top of that there is more grouping PvE content while leveling then in any other AAA MMO released since DAoC.
Best MMO experiences : EQ(PvE), DAoC(PvP), WoW(total package) LOTRO (worldfeel) GW2 (Artstyle and animations and worlddesign) SWTOR (Story immersion) TSW (story) ESO (character advancement)
Have to disagre OP. It's easy, easy, easy, tricky elite/champion, easy, easy, easy. repeat.
The thing is the tricky elite/champion you just res and go again with your 'A game'. Not that challenging really. The other thing is because the (predominant) trash is easy the main reason you fail when the odd tricky encounter comes along is you are still stuck in trash mob mode. Nothing like a medical drone to wake you from tat though!
My friend is complaining its way to easy. Though he is only level 25 the last I talked to him he is telling me he is soloing Heroic 4 quests (im assuming thats harder quests that want 4 people?) as a pure sith inquisitor healer. I dont know how true it is or if he just wants me to think he is a badass but if it is true I can hardly see the game being "hard".
Again, not my personal experience though since I never played past the starter worlds in the "everyone gets in" weekend. I also understand a good MMO tends to get harder the higher level you get. Only makes sense imo.
Your friend is lying. There are single mobs in the game world that give me a run for my money. Like a mob just before I quit for the patch - a single robot mob at the exit to a quest area (Taris - had to help a bunch of people through a crashed space craft). I was healing like mad trying to keep my companion up while throwing in damage in between heals. The companion finally dropped and I had to run for cover to be able to get back enough energy to stop myself from dying, while avoiding incoming shots as I was very low health. Finally managed to get the final shot in and I was on about 5% health remaining.
And that's just a mob out in the gameworld. Heroic 4's are full of those sorts of things.
Probably some of the hardest mobs I've faced much along the lines of Rifts elites. Some of those things will nuke levels 5 to 10 levels above them and I've seen level 50's die to 25 and 30 elites in Rift also.
I think SW: TOR took somewhat of the same path with their difficulty. Having to face multiple mobs in most every situation is a good change. Usually its pull that mob, murder him while his homie sits back and picks his toe boogers. Though with the mix and design of some of the classes. You get mobs that dropline from the rafters and jetpack in. Guys that come out from behind barrirers or call in droid assistance. Battles are varried and can be quite unsuspecting if you don't take time to read some titles.
I find it good, nothing like slaughtering through a region on your way to an important meeting with the Sith Overlord in Taris to suddenly walk into some Gold Goon with a bunch of silver packing Sith Slayers out to gank. Every fight is not a guarunteed win if you aren't sure what your facing.
Flashpoints and Heroics are the same. Just got done trying to finish Mandalorian Raiders with 2 others, we faced off against the 2 Jedi and Smugglers at the end dieing miserably while only dropping one of them. Note we were a good 4 levels above the level 25 mobs. The four of the Mandy's laid waste to us.
We went back got another Sith Sorcerer and took it to them and still had a good challenge in the fight. We sadly could not kill the last boss. We tried to beat the server out going into the fight with 5 minutes before downtime. We got him to around 25% helath before the pussy jetpacked off to safety burning out the last minute out server time....
BAH!
PM before you report at least or you could just block.