Nothing much wrong with Rift IMO great mmo . Nothing much wrong with ToR another great mmo .
I'll be the first to admit TOR has a GOOD CHANCE. Bioware does need to get off their ass and start patching and start patching at a fierce pace. Right now it seems like they released the game and then went on Christmas vacation.
There are some bugs and basic features they need to start adding or these fans will turn into haters something fast. I do like they atleast patch in the slicing thing that was inflating the ecnomy. There is some serious RNG when it comes to pvp and end game gear that will give you Aion flashbacks.
I might actually pick it up a little later, but I want to give it more time to be sure Bioware is serious.
Hardly. SWTOR is merely an adequate MMO with some excellent voice acted story quests. Once people burn through those they will be back at what they've done for the last several years, raiding, heroic dungeon pugging, and canned PVPing. Wow has long proven itself to be the addiction of choice in that department. I'm afraid SWTOR is destined to live out its life like Prince Charles. Watching its youthful exuberence vanish into the past, permanently eclipsed by the shadow of the Old Girl that while admittedly long in the tooth, just never seems to die.
Imitation may win a company a slice of the pie, sometimes even a quite large slice, but it will never deliver the crown and the ring.
That prince charles comment made me lmfao,it's so true as well.As for swtor you sum it up nicely but i wouldn't even call the VO great.The game is a bad hybrid that should never be called an mmo.As for the OP,how can you take anyone seriouly when they declare an mmo with a 10th of the player base of the leading mmo the new king lol.
Yes, really. A Korean grinder was not exactly the best example to try to prove me wrong.
I must have missed it when XLGames became a major player.
AA is definitely NOT going to be an so-called "Asia Grinder". First of all, because you don't have any kind of levels, which do obligate you to try to be better. The producer and creative director are Ultima Online veterans - and the main idea is, to re-establish the same feeling of freedom you got in Ultima Online, with a full new concept. So, will be this UO2? No!
But will it be a big, new, cool Sandbox? Yes! And it seems, SideTraKd, that you do not notice the difference between a Theme Park and a Sandbox.
Theme Park: Do everyday the same crap you've done one day ago. Follow a whole statical storylane. Do some PVP in "exclusive areas". And realize, that the crafting system in your theme park is that concipated, that a weapon created by a player will never have a greater influence into the game, than the given random-drops.
Sandbox: Do everyday what you like to do. Use your creativity and improve your abilities, skilling. Oh, you don't want to skill? Do something else, like going into PVP. It means, in a shortener version, that you can do whatever you want. There is no endgame given. And no, you don't need to be the over-pro at the end of the game. And that a korean has realized this, shows me, that the will do fine. They lay their focus on direct open world PVP. A place, where you can contribute that your folks will grow up by constructing / holding / taking / sabotaging forts, ships and other things. No way to "teleport" that fast from one point to another. Sometimes, people need to suffer a little bit, to learn appreciate what they get - also IN A GAME.
And about XLGame: It's the publisher. Wow. Has not much with that to do, what the producer and creative director wants to do with it. After GDC, I can clearly say, that you are wrong. And even if you say now to me, that I AM wrong - you'll see it yourself. But I'm pretty sure that those games, like ArcheAge, aren't suitable for you :-) Just guessing.
The game may end up being the best game ever made, and it still wouldn't have anything to do with what I said, which is that none of the major players are likely to sink a lot of money into a sandbox type game. SWG's failure was completely Sony's fault, but that is still going to make the majors shy away from sandbox, which is unfortunate. Perhaps AA will change that trend, but I doubt it.
No Star Wars: The Old Republic isnt even related to the king. It currently has around 1 million subscribers and you do not become king until at least 10 million subscribers.' It is more of a number of players thing vs how you believe the game is vs other games. 2 choices in many games love and utter disappointment can't say I'll play this game a month from now.
Well to be fair, you can't really count WoW as having 10-12 million subscribers when comparing it to SWTOR because a large percentage of them are in Asia. I think in NA WoW has more like 4.5 million.
Rubbish lol..of course you must count asian subs as well.Fact remains that swtor will have to beat WOW in subs whether from asia europe or na,it will never reach those numbers.No mmo except blizzards new mmo will even get close.
It is too soon to answer that question although to me SWtor beats Wow. But I don't consider that a great feat or for that matter consider WoW to be the game to beat. My heart goes to Star Wars Galaxies and DAoC for the best MMorpg games ever made, so this must beat those two in my books. So far I'm very happy with SWToR, but we must give it some time before dethroning the king.
No Star Wars: The Old Republic isnt even related to the king.
It currently has around 1 million subscribers and you do not become king until at least 10 million subscribers.'
It is more of a number of players thing vs how you believe the game is vs other games.
2 choices in many games love and utter disappointment can't say I'll play this game a month from now.
Well to be fair, you can't really count WoW as having 10-12 million subscribers when comparing it to SWTOR because a large percentage of them are in Asia. I think in NA WoW has more like 4.5 million.
Rubbish lol..of course you must count asian subs as well.Fact remains that swtor will have to beat WOW in subs whether from asia europe or na,it will never reach those numbers.No mmo except blizzards new mmo will even get close.
I don't think you can count an asian sub as being the same as an NA sub because the revenue is different for each...NA subs make a lot more revenue typically. Most Chinese folks are not going to be able to pay $15 USD a month for a game because of purchasing power parity.
Also...SWTOR isn't even available in China AFAIK, so it's kind of unfair to count that against it.
If SWTOR does manage to capture the NA market from WoW...then that would mean something, even though WoW would still technically have more subs because of its Asian market.
Hopefully new games will build on the immersion aspect and take us to a new level that SW:TOR laid the foundation for. It truly is a breath of fresh air.
You know, for (the very few) people like me who don't need pretty lights and sounds to be immersed, SWTOR offers nothing of value as a game.
Not saying it's a failure of a game. Just pointing out the fallacy in your logic. Breath of fresh air to you? Yes.
To me? No.
To the industry? Hell no.
"Never argue with a fool; onlookers may not be able to tell the difference."
Absolutely more than happy with my decision to cancel my pre-order. I took time off in beta to try to get a fresh perspective on the game. I took time off from MMORPGs completely in December to deal with holiday preperations and spend time with friends and family. Didn't change anything returning at the end of beta.
Even though I had pre-quit prior to pre-release I was able to participate in the release headstart from the very first day because I had entered a pre-order code so early. I still felt the same about the game - mind numbingly easy, static repeditive open world, while the story is good - the character voice acted dialog selections are meaningless quips that do not significantly impact the storyline or your character/companions, the MMORPG components of the game feel shallow and half hearted - there for the sake of saying they were included, itemization is still terrible, the only PvP instance I enjoy is Alderan and that too frequently devolves into one sided zergfesting...and on and on
TOR is going to follow the same path as all recent large MMOs - a million or so trying it out at release, falling to a couple hundred thousand within a year. Not a failure - but kingly status by no means.
-Myth- ___________________________________________________ Illusion masquerading as metaphor in the guise of legend
The truth may be puzzling. It may take some work to grapple with. It may be counterintuitive. It may contradict deeply held prejudices. It may not be consonant with what we desperately want to be true. But our preferences do not determine what's true.
I think when we see real creativity come back to the MMO industry... and I dont mean "taking any model we have seen before and adding a feature or to ( *cough* rift *cough* swtor ) we will see the next generation of MMOs come... and thus with a new leader or King.
But it likely will not happen for a while and it wont come from any AAA MMO that will be out in the next several years. It has to come from an independent developer...
Think minecraft ( i don't mean the game per se ) but something that comes out of nowhere and really shakes things up and really leverages the fact that thousands of players are playing at once.
It will introduce an experience you CANT have unless you are with thousands of players at once.
For several years i waited for Star Wars like a fat kid watching a cake baking.
When i tried the beta i walked away angry, dissapointed, and out-right concerned for the industry.
After my League of Legends account was PERMA-BANNED (WTF?) - and i lost 200 bucks i invested into that game, i was at an impass of boredom, so i decided to bite the bullet.
I'm glad i did -
No the game still didn't live up to -ALL- my expectations, but now that i've put in more time, started my own successful RP guild - i'm finding the features, and the enviroment much more enjoyable - and addictive.
I understand there is some strong quams as to the game's end game -- I'll deal with that when i get there --
But as it seem i was wrong, what about you? Twice.
How did the game actually go as far as your expectations? If you were dissapointed did you give it a 2nd chance?
The game -is- a themepark sure, and yes nothing exactily ground breaking is taking place, but i do feel like it will do a good job of filling in the role that World of Warcraft filled.
The question is - for how long?
As normal a poll with limited options. SWTOR is a great game and MMO is it the best who CARES !!!!!
I seem to be having fun in the game with friends; So yes the game has passed the test.
Now lets add a little:
Does the game provide any real challenge to me personally ? NO, (But for a bit of fun it is fine)
Would any MMO games provide any real challenge to me personally these days ? NO, the days of real challenge seem to have gone but these can be still be found in community based games with circa 100-200 conccurent users and yes they exist.
Will any MMOs in the Future buck the trend ? Maybe, if all the playboy/girl features are removed maybe the genre can become a challenge again. But that would involve forcing people to play games again. Sadly gameplay has been removed with the introduction of; Auto Travel ; Auto Mail ; Auto Sell ; Community Killers ; Guild & PvP (Anti - Immersive worlds and longevity - wini win win against the community is a nagative against a worlds development MMOs shoulc embrace vast untamed worlds and the untamed being the environment). someone will cotton onto this sometime soon I hope .
One thing is for sure that myself and friends can always revert to Tabletop , Roleplay because we have the ability to do so. Sadly the current Majority of the MMO crowd (Note: I missed out the RPG because developers don't bother these days. We can give SWTOR a pass on this one) are so dumb they need the above whack-a-mole features to even be able to contemplate playing an MMO these days.
________________________________________________________ Sorcery must persist, the future is the Citadel
Really isn't fair to have this discussion at this point one way or the other but least for me it is not worthy of the crown. I do not believe it is going to overtake WoW either.
We'll see though...
1. For god's sake mmo gamers, enough with the analogies. They're unnecessary and your comparisons are terrible, dissimilar, and illogical.
2. To posters feeling the need to state how f2p really isn't f2p: Players understand the concept. You aren't privy to some secret the rest are missing. You're embarrassing yourself.
3. Yes, Cpt. Obvious, we're not industry experts. Now run along and let the big people use the forums for their purpose.
No way is TOR a new king..i might be totally wrong but i am thinking Blizzards Mists of Pandaria expansion will outsell TOR
Feature for feature World of Warcraft outshines TOR...(of course it has several years advantage)
I think TOR is up there though for the co-op rpg throne..just not the mmorpg one.
Could you outline those features that outshine TOR, please?
Well I can name a couple right off the top of my head that TOR doesn't have that makes WoW a better game right now. Customizable UI and something as simple as a guild bank. TOR has neither of those and that is just two off the top of my head. Stop praising TOR as the bestest game "ever"! It isn't...it has a way to go before it can claim that crown. Maybe in a year...yeah...but right now it lacks even basic features gamers expect in their MMO's.
Well I can name a couple right off the top of my head that TOR doesn't have that makes WoW a better game right now. Customizable UI and something as simple as a guild bank. TOR has neither of those and that is just two off the top of my head. Stop praising TOR as the bestest game "ever"! It isn't...it has a way to go before it can claim that crown. Maybe in a year...yeah...but right now it lacks even basic features gamers expect in their MMO's.
Both of which they are working on at this very moment...
When an MMO comes out with absolutly no missing content come and tell me.
Well I can name a couple right off the top of my head that TOR doesn't have that makes WoW a better game right now. Customizable UI and something as simple as a guild bank. TOR has neither of those and that is just two off the top of my head. Stop praising TOR as the bestest game "ever"! It isn't...it has a way to go before it can claim that crown. Maybe in a year...yeah...but right now it lacks even basic features gamers expect in their MMO's.
Both of which they are working on at this very moment...
When an MMO comes out with absolutly no missing content come and tell me.
Good, glad they are working on it...the point still stands. When SWTOR adds the basic features we have come to expect of MMO's then maybe people will be able to praise it...as it is now, it is not even a finished game. Missing one feature is excusable...but SWTOR is missing quite a number of features. So to put it on a pedestal and say this is our new King of MMO's - that is just laughable.
Comments
I'll be the first to admit TOR has a GOOD CHANCE. Bioware does need to get off their ass and start patching and start patching at a fierce pace. Right now it seems like they released the game and then went on Christmas vacation.
There are some bugs and basic features they need to start adding or these fans will turn into haters something fast. I do like they atleast patch in the slicing thing that was inflating the ecnomy. There is some serious RNG when it comes to pvp and end game gear that will give you Aion flashbacks.
I might actually pick it up a little later, but I want to give it more time to be sure Bioware is serious.
Lol Swtor....really...haha
With just 1.5mil sub, i just hope they survive
I'll hail them king if they manage at least 5 mil of sub (not asking them to even match WoW)
That prince charles comment made me lmfao,it's so true as well.As for swtor you sum it up nicely but i wouldn't even call the VO great.The game is a bad hybrid that should never be called an mmo.As for the OP,how can you take anyone seriouly when they declare an mmo with a 10th of the player base of the leading mmo the new king lol.I dunno guys, the OP may be right. I woke up this morning and every MMO except for SWTOR has closed their doors.
The game may end up being the best game ever made, and it still wouldn't have anything to do with what I said, which is that none of the major players are likely to sink a lot of money into a sandbox type game. SWG's failure was completely Sony's fault, but that is still going to make the majors shy away from sandbox, which is unfortunate. Perhaps AA will change that trend, but I doubt it.
Well to be fair, you can't really count WoW as having 10-12 million subscribers when comparing it to SWTOR because a large percentage of them are in Asia. I think in NA WoW has more like 4.5 million.
Rubbish lol..of course you must count asian subs as well.Fact remains that swtor will have to beat WOW in subs whether from asia europe or na,it will never reach those numbers.No mmo except blizzards new mmo will even get close.It is too soon to answer that question although to me SWtor beats Wow. But I don't consider that a great feat or for that matter consider WoW to be the game to beat. My heart goes to Star Wars Galaxies and DAoC for the best MMorpg games ever made, so this must beat those two in my books. So far I'm very happy with SWToR, but we must give it some time before dethroning the king.
I don't think you can count an asian sub as being the same as an NA sub because the revenue is different for each...NA subs make a lot more revenue typically. Most Chinese folks are not going to be able to pay $15 USD a month for a game because of purchasing power parity.
Also...SWTOR isn't even available in China AFAIK, so it's kind of unfair to count that against it.
If SWTOR does manage to capture the NA market from WoW...then that would mean something, even though WoW would still technically have more subs because of its Asian market.
Are you team Azeroth, team Tyria, or team Jacob?
You know, for (the very few) people like me who don't need pretty lights and sounds to be immersed, SWTOR offers nothing of value as a game.
Not saying it's a failure of a game. Just pointing out the fallacy in your logic. Breath of fresh air to you? Yes.
To me? No.
To the industry? Hell no.
"Never argue with a fool; onlookers may not be able to tell the difference."
I need to take this advice more.
lol, this is great, also the *rolls eyes at thread title*
Right now I have great fun.
BUT: I will wait a month or two before I make anything like a final verdict over this game.
People don't ask questions to get answers - they ask questions to show how smart they are. - Dogbert
Didn't ArcheAge already come out and failed because it was another generic Asian Grind MMO?
Nope. It's still in Closed beta and has not been labeled as such by anyone that has played it.
My theme song.
Absolutely more than happy with my decision to cancel my pre-order. I took time off in beta to try to get a fresh perspective on the game. I took time off from MMORPGs completely in December to deal with holiday preperations and spend time with friends and family. Didn't change anything returning at the end of beta.
Even though I had pre-quit prior to pre-release I was able to participate in the release headstart from the very first day because I had entered a pre-order code so early. I still felt the same about the game - mind numbingly easy, static repeditive open world, while the story is good - the character voice acted dialog selections are meaningless quips that do not significantly impact the storyline or your character/companions, the MMORPG components of the game feel shallow and half hearted - there for the sake of saying they were included, itemization is still terrible, the only PvP instance I enjoy is Alderan and that too frequently devolves into one sided zergfesting...and on and on
TOR is going to follow the same path as all recent large MMOs - a million or so trying it out at release, falling to a couple hundred thousand within a year. Not a failure - but kingly status by no means.
-Myth-
___________________________________________________
Illusion masquerading as metaphor in the guise of legend
Crown Deeez ........ nvm
The truth may be puzzling. It may take some work to grapple with. It may be counterintuitive. It may contradict deeply held prejudices. It may not be consonant with what we desperately want to be true. But our preferences do not determine what's true.
Carl Sagan-
I think when we see real creativity come back to the MMO industry... and I dont mean "taking any model we have seen before and adding a feature or to ( *cough* rift *cough* swtor ) we will see the next generation of MMOs come... and thus with a new leader or King.
But it likely will not happen for a while and it wont come from any AAA MMO that will be out in the next several years. It has to come from an independent developer...
Think minecraft ( i don't mean the game per se ) but something that comes out of nowhere and really shakes things up and really leverages the fact that thousands of players are playing at once.
It will introduce an experience you CANT have unless you are with thousands of players at once.
No way is TOR a new king..i might be totally wrong but i am thinking Blizzards Mists of Pandaria expansion will outsell TOR
Feature for feature World of Warcraft outshines TOR...(of course it has several years advantage)
I think TOR is up there though for the co-op rpg throne..just not the mmorpg one.
Could you outline those features that outshine TOR, please?
"Everything the light touches is our kingdom" -- Mufasa
---
Like everything in WoW?
I mean right now, SWTOR is basically Classic WoW* with the bonus of BW's cinematic storytelling.
*which isn't at all a bad thing; loads of people are hankering for that Classic WoW experience.
"Never argue with a fool; onlookers may not be able to tell the difference."
I need to take this advice more.
crafting (although neither is super awsome really)
combat animations (such as parrying/dodging etc - tors are there just out of sync if you look closely at lightsabres parrying)
interaction with the game world
freedom of movement within said world
class diversity
ui/mod options (although this shouldn't count since Tor doesnt have them really)
things to do
**cinematics i guess TOR is better but thats like saying WoW has better dwarves or elves**
(not comparing graphics since they are 2 totally different art directions and both are good - not talking about character creation)
As normal a poll with limited options. SWTOR is a great game and MMO is it the best who CARES !!!!!
I seem to be having fun in the game with friends; So yes the game has passed the test.
Now lets add a little:
Does the game provide any real challenge to me personally ? NO, (But for a bit of fun it is fine)
Would any MMO games provide any real challenge to me personally these days ? NO, the days of real challenge seem to have gone but these can be still be found in community based games with circa 100-200 conccurent users and yes they exist.
Will any MMOs in the Future buck the trend ? Maybe, if all the playboy/girl features are removed maybe the genre can become a challenge again. But that would involve forcing people to play games again. Sadly gameplay has been removed with the introduction of; Auto Travel ; Auto Mail ; Auto Sell ; Community Killers ; Guild & PvP (Anti - Immersive worlds and longevity - wini win win against the community is a nagative against a worlds development MMOs shoulc embrace vast untamed worlds and the untamed being the environment). someone will cotton onto this sometime soon I hope .
One thing is for sure that myself and friends can always revert to Tabletop , Roleplay because we have the ability to do so. Sadly the current Majority of the MMO crowd (Note: I missed out the RPG because developers don't bother these days. We can give SWTOR a pass on this one) are so dumb they need the above whack-a-mole features to even be able to contemplate playing an MMO these days.
________________________________________________________
Sorcery must persist, the future is the Citadel
Really isn't fair to have this discussion at this point one way or the other but least for me it is not worthy of the crown. I do not believe it is going to overtake WoW either.
We'll see though...
1. For god's sake mmo gamers, enough with the analogies. They're unnecessary and your comparisons are terrible, dissimilar, and illogical.
2. To posters feeling the need to state how f2p really isn't f2p: Players understand the concept. You aren't privy to some secret the rest are missing. You're embarrassing yourself.
3. Yes, Cpt. Obvious, we're not industry experts. Now run along and let the big people use the forums for their purpose.
Well I can name a couple right off the top of my head that TOR doesn't have that makes WoW a better game right now. Customizable UI and something as simple as a guild bank. TOR has neither of those and that is just two off the top of my head. Stop praising TOR as the bestest game "ever"! It isn't...it has a way to go before it can claim that crown. Maybe in a year...yeah...but right now it lacks even basic features gamers expect in their MMO's.
Both of which they are working on at this very moment...
When an MMO comes out with absolutly no missing content come and tell me.
Good, glad they are working on it...the point still stands. When SWTOR adds the basic features we have come to expect of MMO's then maybe people will be able to praise it...as it is now, it is not even a finished game. Missing one feature is excusable...but SWTOR is missing quite a number of features. So to put it on a pedestal and say this is our new King of MMO's - that is just laughable.