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Upgrading, what first?
thebigghost
Member Posts: 65
I've slowly been upgrading bit and pieces of my computer for gaming. I'm just curious, what should I upgrade next? Like.. what's the weakest link?
Motherboard: 64 bit, AM3 pci-e 2.0, usb 2.0, DDR2, takes AM2, AM2+ or AM3 socket
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813128408
CPU: AMD Athlon 64bit Dual core @ 3.00Ghz (AM2 socket)
Ram: 4GB, DDR2/800 (Max of 8) - Corsair xms
GPU: GTX 460
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814130566
PSU: 600W (not worried about)
HD: 250G (not worried about)
I was thinking maybe maxing out the ram would be a good "bang for my buck," but really want to hear from someone that knows what they're talking about. I know a decent amount, but not a lot.
Comments
If you won't pay that much, get a AMD Phenom II 965 BE and...
are you running an 64bit OS? The GTX 460 can still handle games like Skyrim - at least on medium / med-high. Your RAM can still handle it well. But you can upgrade +2GB Ram DDR2.
Otherwise, I would recommend you to get a Asus P8H67-M Pro + AMD Phenom II X6 + 8GB DDR3 Value Ram + (maybe?) GF GTX 560 Ti.
Sprinty Sprintfox
probably the cheapest upgrade if you're running windows 7 is to get 6gb of ram, ram is extremely cheap. Last year I upgraded my desktop (now my son's) to 6gb from 2gb running vista 64bit, and it only cost $20. and it's simple to DIY. I'm no computer whiz like some people, but going from 2gb to 6gb made a big difference on gaming.
Ya I'm running windows 7 prof. 64bit. Ok, thanks for your reply!
I'll probably grab some more ram and swap this processor for now. The 460 gtx seem nice, but it's laggy on occasion, but the alternatives seem pretty expensive. I'm normally a year behind on gpu's.
I don't know if this is any good or not, but I'm half tempted to take my son's pc and get this for it lol. I mean it's only $35 for 8gb ram
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820178333
Wow!! It has gotten cheap.
How come you can't dind 1066 8gb ddr2 (2 sticks, 4gb each)? Doesn't exist?
You've got a cheap junk Socket AM2+ motherboard that can't take 125 W processors. But it could still take a 95 W Socket AM3 processor, which would be a considerable upgrade for you. Some games will struggle on the processor you have, but a faster processor will be a big improvement.
If you'd like to go that route, then this is by far the best processor to get:
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16819103995
$110, and no need to upgrade anything but the processor. That's a six core "Thuban" processor that has two cores disabled, but it still has Thuban's turbo core, so it will turbo up to 3.4 GHz in some situations. AMD's other Socket AM3 processors are disappearing from New Egg, so you probably won't be able to get it new much longer.
Your memory and video card are fine. 600 W is not a power supply, and if you think it is, then I'd worry some about what you've got. Your power supply might be fine or it might not, but it would be good to post the exact brand name and model to see.
A good SSD would also be a very nice upgrade for your system, if you want the computer to be faster and more responsive. It usually won't help much with frame rates in games, and won't help with Internet download speeds, but an SSD will make everything else you do much faster. SSDs with a decent amount of space are a lot cheaper than they used to be:
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820226152
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820147161
If you want something that will perform like new on the cheap, then a new Phenom II X4 960T, a new SSD, and depending on what youv'e got, possibly a new power supply, will get the job done.
Try googlin' 8gb DDR2 ram kit - you should find something :-)
At least from GEiL or Kingston. The GTX 560 Ti has also already a year. The one I've purchased for my second computer, last week, just costed me about € 150,- || A good price in my eyes, for a new GPU.
Sprinty Sprintfox
That's DDR3, so it won't fit his DDR2 motherboard.
Furthermore, for most home users, there's no real difference between 4 GB and 8 GB. You can make a good case for getting 8 GB in a new computer because it's so cheap. If you eventually do need 8 GB, it might be cheaper as 8 GB today than 4 GB today and 4 GB later. It's also better to have two 4 GB modules than four 2 GB modules. But there's not much of a case for upgrading from 4 GB to 8 GB today unless you have unusual needs.
Thanks a ton, but I though this board was suppose to be able to handle AM3 125w? That's the only reason I bought it a while back, so I could slowly upgrade. (Being a broke-ass student is getting old). Probably a dumb decision now, should have just said my money.
http://www.gigabyte.com/support-downloads/cpu-support-popup.aspx?pid=3373
Apparently only some of them?
You're almost in my boat. My system is seriously older, and changing anything would require upgrading everything. If you upgrade your motherboard, it is likely to require different memory and have a different processor slot. Additionally, a change in motherboards could result in the need to change from IDE to SATA hard drives. I'd definitely not recommend changing the motherboard unless you're willing to buy a new computer.
Like others have pointed out, your best upgrade option is probably the CPU. You might find some GPUs that will improve your situation a bit more, too. Some of the GTX 460s only came with 768 kb of memory, and some models used a 128 bit wide memory path. Check which specific version of the GTX 460 you have. Maybe a faster graphics card could get you as much, if not more, performance improvement, depending on what games/settings you're running. Check to Specifications tab at Nvidia to see what your specific model will do. If you've got the GTX 460 SE (the bottom end of the 460 family), I'd think your GPU might give you the best return on investment.
So, I'd vote either CPU or GPU.
Logic, my dear, merely enables one to be wrong with great authority.
Scroll down to the Socket AM3 processors. It says N/A on most of the 125 W ones. Even if it didn't, a 125 W processor is a bad idea in a motherboard with only four power phases.
Even so, the Zosma processor I linked would be a huge upgrade for you. That has four cores at 3 GHz, and will turbo core them up to 3.4 GHz if appropriate (basically guaranteed if you need the performance in one or two cores, likely not if you're running something that scales to four). For comarison, a 3 GHz Athlon 64 X2 is roughly equivalent to taking the Phenom II X4 960T, disabling two more cores, disabling turbo core, and downclocking the other two cores to 2.4 GHz.
If you ever want to upgrade the system, then I'd grab the Phenom II X4 960T now. It seems to be at a clearance price, and many of the other Thuban, Deneb, and Propus processors are gone completely, so that one probably won't be far behind.
Do find out exactly what power supply you have, and post the exact brand name and model. If it's decent quality, then 600 W is plenty of wattage for whatever upgrades you might get. If it's a piece of junk, then you should replace it just on general principle.
Check his link. That's a full, proper GeForce GTX 460 1 GB, not 768 MB, not OEM, not SE, not M, not any of the other crippled sutff.
A GeForce GTX 460 is still a plenty capable video card. It may not be able to deliver max settings in some games, but it should get you fairly high settings in nearly everything unless you're using an outlandish monitor resolution. There's also little sense in upgrading a video card so quickly, without at least waiting for a new generation of parts to bring prices down. The GeForce 500 series is just a respin of the GeForce 400 series. Nvidia gets better yields back from TSMC so they can clock the chips higher, and that's about it for the differences, except for that the runaway power consumption of GF100 was fixed by the respin.
I wasn't certain if the card in his system was the one he linked off newegg. If it is, then there's more bang for the buck to be had in a CPU upgrade. But there's a world of difference with NVidia products, even those with the same name, so as I suggested, a GPU upgrade only makes sense depending on which specific configuration card he actually has. I wish NVidia would use a different naming system for the different configurations, like a 460A, 460B, etc.
Their naming convention leaves a lot to be desired
Logic, my dear, merely enables one to be wrong with great authority.
But then they wouldn't be able to send the "good" card to review sites and use that to trick people into buying the "bad" cards, which is the whole point of the naming scheme. Sure, it would be nice if they didn't do that. But until it gets bad enough for people to start saying, don't buy Nvidia GPUs at all (about the same way that I say not to buy Kingston SSDs at all, even though some of them are good, because I find their naming convention incomprehensible), there's no reason for them to back off.
It's interesting to note that AMD, which once had clearer naming schemes, has taken to copying Intel's and Nvidia's more opaque naming schemes. Phenom II X2, X3, X4 was a lot clearer than Llano A4, A6, A8, as giving some of the specs as part of the model number helped to clarify things. AMD once ridiculed "G4saurus Rebrandus" (say it out loud if you don't get it), but the Radeon HD 7000 series will be the third consecutive one with rebranded mobile parts from old generations.
As far as any single upgrade, that's tricky.
The CPU is aging, but so is the motherboard. A Quad Core PhenomIIX4 would be the best you could hope for I think. You can snag one for pretty cheap - probably the best bang for the buck really.
4G of RAM - you won't see a whole lot going up any higher than that unless you are actually using all of that 4G and slamming the swap file now. I'd check on that before you go investing into any more RAM - especially DDR2 RAM that won't survive a motherboard upgrade.
If you really want to upgrade the RAM - go for a new motherboard and just go for DDR3. An AM3+ motherboard can use the same Phenom II that I recommend above, along with all the rest of your equipment, and you'll get bumped to DDR3 memory, SATA 3, USB 3, and all the other more recent goodies that will individually not add a lot of firepower, but cumulatively make a good bit of difference. Really, when you start to consider a new motherboard all together though, you may as well consider an Intel rather than AMD because there is a significant performance difference: the Phenom II can perform well enough such that it can keep games above 60FPS, and there isn't much difference between 82 and 134FPS, but a year old Core i5 (or waiting a couple of months of the Ivy Bridge update) will have a lot better lasting power than a Phenom II that's already 3+ years old will have.
And SSD - another great idea. You won't get more FPS, but it will make a significant difference in your computer.
Wow, thank you for all the help everyone. The GPU is the higher-end 460 gtx, exact same as the link.
I'll buy that processor first, along with a new power supply (I have an older junk computer that needs one so my Mom can use it anyway).
Hopefully after awhile I'll buy a new motherboard and ram, starting a new phase of upgrades.
Good choice ghost. Quizz's tips are very useful.
Good luck!
Sprinty Sprintfox
First, post what power supply you have. Maybe it's pretty nice and there's no sense in replacing it.
Second, don't just pick a power supply at random and assume that it will be an upgrade. Maybe you'd end up with a new power supply that is worse than your old one, and that doesn't help anything.
If you are going to get a new power supply, then here's one that's very nice, has ample power for your system, and isn't unduly expensive:
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16817182066
A week ago, I would not have guessed that we'd see Super Flower's gold platform at $62 including shipping. Though part of the reason why the high end quality power supplies have been expensive in the past is that vendors have mostly decided that high end power delivery should be fully modular, and modularity is cost++; But modularity matters a lot more on a 1000 W power supply with a zillion cables than a 450 W power supply with far fewer.
Hmm, not exactly sure on the power supply, but it wasn't a cheapo. The label is covered by how my psu sits in the case
. I spent around 100$ on it last year, so I'm pretty sure it's decent.
Anyway I ended up buying: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16819103921
I wanted to buy the one you suggested Quiz, but when I noticed this one onsale $50! I had to get it. Hopefully i'll have money soon and ill just buy an entirely new system.
That's really an Athlon II X4, in spite of the name, so it's not as good as the Phenom II X4 960T that I linked earlier. But it's not a big gap, and at worst, that will be maybe 15% slower. And that's at worst; sometimes the gap will be much smaller. For $50, that's a great deal on a processor.
The trouble with power supplies is that, while cheap is junk, expensive isn't necessarily nice. Some power supply vendors have figured out that some people think that if a power supply is expensive, it must be good. They'll stick a high price tag on a cheap junk power supply and hope to sell some that way. Thermaltake is probably the worst offender at this. There are also stores like Best Buy that might charge you $100 for something that you can get for $50 elsewhere.
You really should check on the power supply to see exactly what you've got. You may just need to remove a few screws to let the power supply slide to where you can read the label.