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The Tao of Arenanet
Meowhead
Member UncommonPosts: 3,716
The Tao of Arenanet - The Design Philosophy of Guild Wars 2
or
Where Exactly Is All This Innovation?
or
Why Are Some People Looking Forward To GW2, But I'm Not?
An essay in many parts, but mostly pertaining to the design philosophies driving Guild Wars 2, how and why they are innovative, the game features they affect, and why this means that Meowhead is totally hyped for this game while some people just don't see why.
First off, a warning. This is going to be a wall of text. This is going to be SEVERAL walls of text. I've tried to highlight things like topic headings, so you can skim through a bit, but if you don't want a giant wall of text, you should probably go visit another topic. There is no real TL;DR for this. The closest I can give you is 'I like Arenanet's philosophies but because you're not going to read all this, I can't tell you why in this single sentence'. This is all in no particular order, but I'll try to organize it as best I can. Good luck! (Apologies for formatting. I couldn't get the increase indent/center buttons to work without applying it to the WHOLE post. Not sure why)
1. You can deliver an AAA MMO with a B2P model.
How are they planning on doing this?
This one is pretty obvious. They're going to spend a lot of money and time developing an MMO, then price it B2P style.
Why is this innovative?
Because it's never been done before. (That was easy!)
Why do I believe Arenanet can deliver?
Well, they can definitely price the game any way they want, and they've already expended AAA level resources making the game. The only question is whether or not it'll be profitable for them. They seem to think so, and NCSoft seems to think so, so the only remaining test is the test of how it works out in reality. If enough people buy the game, don't see any reason why it wouldn't work, though.
Why your mileage may vary.
Some people dislike the idea of B2P. Some people think that paying a sub guarantees more quality, because more money is going into the game. Some people think that paying a sub guarantees you'll pay less, because cash shops take all your money. (I'm assuming these two groups of people aren't the same group. Though I would once like to hear somebody arguing that Arenanet will deliver THE definitive MMO quality experience, because it'll be the most expensive to play). Arenanet's cash shop for GW1 suggests they have a pretty good handle on how not to make a P2W cash shop though.
Why I think you should give it a chance anyway.
The nice thing about a cash shop, is you only have to buy what you want. Even if you pay nothing, you can still play the game (Subscription games don't work like this at all). If the cash shop works anything like they say they will, you won't even need to spend any money to enjoy the game fully. If you feel uncomfortable about not paying a monthly fee, buy 15 dollars worth of cash shop stuff a month. That should keep you rolling in fancy costumery and extra character slots.
2. Remove the fight over resources in the PvE world.
How are they planning on doing this?
Everybody has their own, seperate loot drop from monsters, so no rolling over loot. Resource nodes can be used by everybody independently, one person harvesting it doesn't stop other people from doing so. All people who participate in a fight or event are rewarded for doing so, without lowering the rewards of others. Because characters are automatically deleveled in lower level areas, high level characters can't come through and steamroll/trivialize content for others. There's no quest objectives in the world that can be done by another person so you have to wait your turn in line.
Why is this innovative?
MMORPGs have a long, proud tradition of letting people take stuff from other people, even in supposedly PvE zones. Ninjaing crafting nodes, kill stealing... mob tagging, boss drop tables... all these different things mean that each and every resource in an MMORPG world is being competed over with other people. Arenanet is just removing that whole thing.
Why do I believe Arenanet can deliver?
This doesn't actually require any sort of programming wizardry (Other than perhaps the part where they replaced quests with dynamic events, which is more sharing-friendly). It's simply a change in design philosophy. It's not HARD to program this sort of thing. They've already shown it off to an extent in demos. It's not a question of 'can a company do this', but 'will they do this'. ... and Arenanet says they will, and have made it one of the core parts of their philosophy.
Why your mileage may vary.
Some people really like competing over everything, whether it be loot, grabbing a mob first, or whatever.
Why I think you should give it a chance anyway.
There's still competition in GW2, they've just put it all into the PvP areas. Look at this as your chance to socialize and do things with other people, without unintentionally annoying them. (... and where about the only avenue left to intentionally annoy people is chat. Which is why programmers invented 'turn off general chat' and 'ignore', your two best friends in an MMORPG)
3. Play with who you want, when you want, how you want.
How are they planning on doing this?
With two apparent exceptions (Dungeons, because there's a minimum level needed to do them, and joining WvWvW on an opposing server), you can access any of the content and join in on it. There's a variety of systems in place to facilitate this. First off, you have sidekicking up, which means you can join a friend (Or an obliging stranger), and be the level needed to do higher content. WvWvW apparently has sidekicking to max level (Though you won't be as powerful as a real level 80, you'll at least be somewhat competitive), which means anybody whose played the game for 5 minutes (Long enough to beat the tutorial) can hop on in and start participating. There's automatic deleveling in areas with lower level content, so you can still play lower level things, either to see new things, or to join your friends. With the fast travel system, you can show up at any teleport point you've unlocked, and with the Asura gates, you can travel freely between the 5 starter cities, meaning that even if you're a different race, you can still hop in and join your friends.
Server transfers are supposed to be convenient and free, so you can even hop on over and play with friends who aren't on the same server as you. Structured PvP has everybody at max level with max equipment and all skills, you can join in on that at any time, with anybody you want to play with. Basically, there's nothing to stop you from playing almost any type of content you want, with almost anybody you choose to do so, with almost no downtime in getting it started. (Putting a team together is assisted by point 7). Less waiting to have fun, and finding people you're allowed to have fun with, more having fun without whoever you want.
Why is this innovative?
Other games have done parts of this, but never everything put together, to be so pervasively friendly towards the model of just hopping into the game, and playing with your friends, no waiting.
Why do I believe Arenanet can deliver?
Sidekicking isn't a new concept (Though some of their usage of it is new), and fast travel is trivially easy to add. There's nothing really super complex in this, once again this is just a company taking certain philisophical guidelines, and designing core concepts one way, rather than another.
Why your mileage may vary.
Some people don't like this sort of thing. Some people want to wait a while, they like slow travel times. They feel the journey is an integral part of a proper game world experience. Some people dislike the idea of being deleveled in lower level areas, because they want to just go through and kick the crap out of things. Some people feel that people shouldn't be able to reach content unless they've earned it, the slow, hard way, and that PvP is best done between people who've spent a lot of time playing (More on the last point later)
Why I think you should give it a chance anyway.
People can always do what I'll do. Walk when you have the spare time, enjoy the scenery. Teleport when you absolutely have to get somewhere, immediately (Like to join with friends, when somebody is on a limited time budget). Or teleport not at all. Also, you have to realize that one of the main reasons to delevel people in lower areas is so you can't ruin OTHER people's enjoyment (See point 2). You'll still be badass (Just not trivializing things), just look at it as now you have more of the world you can actually play in a meaningful fashion.
4. Mass PvP is better when it's bigger.
How are they planning on doing this?
Most MMORPGs divide their server's PvP up into lots of little chunks. By level, by area... Arenanet went the other way around. Everybody, regardless of level, is in the same playing field in WvWvW. ... and rather than having multiple areas (Broken up by level), 3 different servers all share the same battlefield, which means that there's effectively 3 times as many people that can possibly fight together. Not only that, WvWvW is designed so you can level up from level 2 (YOu have to go through tutorial first) to max level, including getting skills and weapons, all in here. It has rewards, and rewards the server as a whole, which will assure people have the motivation (Beyond the sheer fun of mass battles) to populate it.
Why is this innovative?
Mostly, just the particular solution they picked to do this. Multiple servers going head to head has never been done before.
Why do I believe Arenanet can deliver?
Because they're basing the type of three-way fight over DAoC, which proved that it's a viable model, and a lot of fun to boot. My only real reservation is how well they can handle the lag of hundreds of players coming at each other.
Why your mileage may vary.
Some people don't like the idea that PvP is in a seperate area, that resets every 2 weeks.
Why I think you should give it a chance anyway.
Because this has been done so there can be amazingly epic battles, and so they won't get stuck where one side wins and it never really changes because the advantage is too overwhelming. Maybe it's not to your taste, but try it out and see? There's so many different systems in GW2, that I'd be pretty impressed if you can't get your box price worth out of the game.
5. Have a relatively low power ceiling, then go for horizontal expansion.
How are they planning on doing this?
Max level is supposed to be reached relatively quickly... the time they're approximating between levels (Even at max level) is 90 minutes. That's about 100 hours or so of leveling. Max equipment is supposed to be gained in a variety of ways (Not just one), such as WvWvW, crafting, dungeons, drops, and just buying it with gold/karma. So far as the horizontal expansion, that would be in the variety of equipment (With different, rather than higher, numbers) and unlocking skills and traits. Not to mention the ever important 'learning how to play better'.
Why is this innovative?
Because MMORPGs tend to be a lot slower for reaching max level AND have relentless power creep. P2P tends to be slow (and give lots of carrots) because it draws out subscriptions to maximize money. F2P tends to be slow (and offer lots of carrots in cash shop) so they can sell leveling potions.
Why do I believe Arenanet can deliver?
This is exactly what they did in GW1. So it can be done, obviously.
Why your mileage may vary.
Some people are unhappy unless they're constantly getting more powerful.
Why I think you should give it a chance anyway.
Don't underestimate horizontal progression. The ability to slap together new builds, and become good in new areas can be considerably more interesting, because it's not just your numbers getting higher, it's your flexibility improving.
6. MMO PvP can be done as an E-Sport.
How are they planning on doing this?
Structured PvP has everybody at max level, with access to max level equipment and all skills/traits. This means it's a completely equal playing ground, with complete freedom to experiment with builds, and it becomes all about the player, and how well they can play what they've picked, not about how much time they've accumulated in the game. Because even casual PvPers will have access to this, and be able to learn it, it'll broaden the pool of potential players, create a bigger pool for the tiered PvP.
The game is designed to be quick, visceral, and relatively easy to understand, so it'll be easy to comment on, and fun to watch.
How is this innovative?
MMORPG PvP just isn't like this. It's too imbalanced, not just classes, but in the fact that it's more important that you've played a long time to get a big character, rather than playing a long time to get good skills.
Why do I believe Arenanet can deliver?
They did it for GW1. Hey, experience counts, right?
Why your mileage may vary.
Some people don't like MMORPG PvP E-sport.
Why I think you should give it a chance anyway.
Hey, you can hop in at max level and try it. It's not like you're going to be wasting more than a few minutes trying it out. ... and you can always try WvWvW instead. It's also a fast way to hone skills and familiarize yourself with high end skills/abilities, which can help you in picking a class that'll suit you in the long run.
7. It's not what you play with, it's who you play with.
How are they planning on doing this?
All classes are extremely flexible, and can be changed around without monetary cost. They've gotten rid of the holy trinity type setup, so specific classes performing specific roles aren't neccessary. This means that you can play with the players you want to play with, rather than people just because they're the class you happen to need.
How is this innovative?
Actually, other MMORPGs sometimes do this (Though Arenanet's specific take is a blend of their own various systems), but it's not common. Anyway, not every single philisophical guiding point has to be completely unique.
Why do I believe Arenanet can deliver?
The holy trinity isn't magical and invoilable . It's merely a style of game design. Picking another type of game design and setup creates different group dynamics.
Why your mileage may vary.
Some people really, really love the Holy trinity. Hey. Uh, more power to you! Plenty of games to play that have the holy trinity in them still.
Why I think you should give it a chance anyway.
A change of pace isn't a bad thing. Why not try it out, and see how it works? Maybe you'll find out you're not as attached to the holy trinity as you thought. Remember, it's just one of many possible methods of designing a game.
8. The controls of an MMO with the abilities of a MOBA and the physical interactions of an FPS. With a pinch of Magic the Gathering.
How are they planning on doing this?
It uses an MMO style control system (Mouse and hotkeys), they've designed the abilities as tools that you can use in diverse ways to adapt to changing situations, and it has physical interactions like allowing you to dodge projectiles, attack from out of range, and attack freely (Ie, using all abilities without a target). (With apologies to Eric Flannum for basically paraphrasing him with point 8 and this answer). Also, like MtG, you have a diverse arsenal of abilities, from which you pick a limited selection that you can use at the current time.
How is this innovative?
It's just a different way of putting together a combat system. There may be other games that bear similarities in some ways, but there's nothing that puts everything together with this particular configuration and feel.
Why do I believe Arenanet can deliver?
Guild Wars 1 is proof of concept for the MtG + MMO style thing, and the demos shown at many conventions are proof of concept for GW2s particular spin on combat.
Why your mileage may vary.
Some people just won't feel as comfortable with this system as they might some other kind.
Why I think you should give it a chance anyway.
How many people really only play just ONE type of game? Guild Wars 2 looks like they've made the combat system pretty intuitive and quick to pick up, with lots of depth to master, so maybe it'll grow on you...
9. Try and have the best soundtrack ever in an MMORPG
How are they planning on doing this?
This is a two step process. First, get one of the best video game music composers out there to do the soundtrack. Jeremy Soule serves this purpose nicely. The man has credentials a mile long. Then, realize that some people won't like his music, and eventually most people will get bored of ANYTHING if you hear it long enough. So, Arenanet is not only making it easy for you to have a custom soundtrack and song list... but making it context sensitive. That's right. Not just 'pile in a lot of music and hope it all works out', but actually pick out things like battle music and town music. What soundtrack for a game could possibly be better than one you personally pick out? That's right. I just complimented your taste in music. I'm shameless.
How is this innovative?
Context sensitive custom playlist? Yes please.
Why do I believe Arenanet can deliver?
Well, they've obviously gotten the Jeremy Soule soundtrack all set up. The rest of it is just programming. Not even fancy programming. Hopefully more MMORPGs follow in these footsteps... not just custom soundtracks, but context sensitive ones.
Why your mileage may vary.
You could have horrible taste in music.
Why I think you should give it a chance anyway.
... but I'm sure you don't know that, so don't worry about it.
Comments
(apologies to Cali59 for taking so long. Holidays and all. Also, more to come, but I got REALLY tired of writing, but I didn't want people to think I died, so I just posted up what I wrote this morning, will add more later)
Well worth the wait. Great job. I look forward to the rest.
"Gamers will no longer buy the argument that every MMO requires a subscription fee to offset server and bandwidth costs. It's not true you know it, and they know it." -Jeff Strain, co-founder of ArenaNet, 2007
Are we allowed to nit-pick yet?
Sure, go ahead!
I can either clarify, correct myself, or argue with you. Depending.
I'm easy.
One major nitpick: Replace each instance of "Innovation" with "Improvement" or "Iteration". You know there will be a post claiming "game x did it! It's not innovation" before we even reach page 2, followed by a long useless discussion that makes the great initial post forgotten.
Besides, it's such a useless buzzword. When somene started using both sides of toilet paper, that was an innovation too. Doesn't mean it was a good idea
Nah, part of the point to this post was to show that there IS innovation, if not in the small ways, in big, overarching, IMPORTANT ways. Whole philisophical shifts in MMORPG design.
Also 'improvement' suggests bettter (It's only better for some people), and 'iteration' is completely meaningless. 'How is this an iteration' is a ridiculous statement.
/slowclap
Great way to explain the design changes that are gonig to make GW2 such an unique game.
This ludicrous religion that's grown up around Anet and GW2 is getting downright scary.
Wait until someone has actually played the game and has clue one how it will really be -- rather than what Devs say, which has been shown over and over and over to be 99.99% BS? Whatever for? We have nerdvana right here, and here's why -- even though I've never played the game and have no real idea what will turn out to be "innovation" (whatever idiotic definition one cares to apply) and what will turn out to be just another babble mouthed piece of marketing hype.
Ah, but they're Anet, the most holy of holy! Believe, or be cast out for your sins!
Tao my arse.
When you start describing a video game you've never even played -- or, for that matter, any video game at all, but especially one you've never even played -- in religious terms, it's seriously time to re-evaluate your life.
See, I predicted there would be an argument about Innovation on the first page. I didn't expect it to be between you and me though when I made that post
The point is, the shift in design is important because of how it improves on concepts that are known and tried, but not fully developed. Whether it is innovation or not is completely irrelevant, but a favorite target of haters and trolls to pick apart. You know how things work around here.
Iteration is anything but meaningless, especially in game design. Some of the best games out there come from developers picking up something another developer tried before, but didn't get quite right, and iterating on it until it becomes truly great. I'm not a fan of posting dictionary entries to make an argument, I trust you know where to find one should you need it.
"How is this an iteration" is indeed ridiculous, but you've proven to be capable of good writing before, so I fully trust in your ability to come up with a better statement
TL;DR: When making a great post, avoid stuffing it with troll food.
People have played the game and can testify that ArenaNet has not lied about even a single feature that was shown, and ArenaNet only describes in detail the features that are ready to show. That is why people are so trusting. ArenaNet actually shows off all of their boasts.
"Be who you are and say what you feel because those who mind don't matter and those who matter don't mind." -Dr. Seuss
Myria I'm sorry but I've played the game and unfortunately for you, what he is evaluating is correct so far, I can't say he's getting his hopes up on false content and lies, now some of the things he listed aren't new but they are pb&j sandwiches.
Now I'm sure you just like many others are used to developers lying and what not so if after reading this you still believe Anet is lying then that's all you, I won't continue arguing I'll just be remain happy at what i've experienced and let Open Beta do the rest of the talking for me
(You know someone brought that up an I want to give credit to the guy that brought it up it was about innovations.)
I might get banned for this. - Rizel Star.
I'm not afraid to tell trolls what they [need] to hear, even if that means for me to have an forced absence afterwards.
P2P LOGIC = If it's P2P it means longevity, overall better game, and THE BEST SUPPORT EVER!!!!!(Which has been rinsed and repeated about a thousand times)
Common Sense Logic = P2P logic is no better than F2P Logic.
I did play both PvE and PvP at gamescom, and it was just plain awesome.
On top of that its not a religion, its blind fate.
Best MMO experiences : EQ(PvE), DAoC(PvP), WoW(total package) LOTRO (worldfeel) GW2 (Artstyle and animations and worlddesign) SWTOR (Story immersion) TSW (story) ESO (character advancement)
psst .... faith!
<whispers> that was on purpose, just think about it.
Best MMO experiences : EQ(PvE), DAoC(PvP), WoW(total package) LOTRO (worldfeel) GW2 (Artstyle and animations and worlddesign) SWTOR (Story immersion) TSW (story) ESO (character advancement)
I'm honestly thinking about not buying Guild Wars 2... Priapism can be very painful.
Haha, +1
I second that,great write up Meo.It explains what ArenaNet are working hard to bring us.
Okay, I added a 9th point, before I go to bed, because... why not? Plus, it was fun to write.
I think after the 10th point, I'll start putting them in the SECOND post, so at least there's a break and people can read =two= giant posts, instead of just one mega-one. Also, there was one comment so beautiful I just HAD to respond to it. So here we go.
Okay, first of all, plenty of people have played the game, and seen that the features I've listed are in there. Secondly, there's a whole running comment on 'why I believe Arenanet can deliver', which apparently you didn't read. You're thinking about games where the MMORPG people promise things like '... and it'll be MAGICAL, and the BEST GAME EVER BECAUSE WE SAID SO', and a lot of wacky, crazy features like 'Trees will grow in real time, and can be dug up! Then replanted!' or whatever.
A lot of the features Arenanet are promising (And have shown to some extent in demos) would be like if a company said 'Also, we're going to have a lot of blue trees'.
It's... not actually hard to do. Any halfway competent programmers could put in blue trees. Just nobody DID yet, because they didn't think blue trees were important. Or a good idea. I'm excited about Arenanet's blue trees. Not about their trees that grow in real time and each house a living family of squirrels that will interact with the ecosystem and grow individual rings for every day of gametime.
It's the simple things in life that can be most important.
The things =I'm= excited about are the shifts in design philosophy. Things like 'Oh hey, no mob tagging/killstealing', and 'No fighting over resource nodes' or 'hey, no end game grind for next tier equipment' or 'hey, how about you just buy the game from us, instead of renting it?' These aren't things that somebody promises and you worry '... but what if they can't deliver it because difficult?'. It's something that they promise, and then people get to decide if they personally want that feature or not, because it's trivial to put in.
Hence 'Your mileage may vary'. Really, did you get past the title of my post?
Also, the very fact I called it 'The Tao of Arenanet' suggests that not only do I not take Arenanet seriously as a religion, but I'm poking a little gentle fun. It's like you've never even heard of 'The Tao of Pooh' (An actual book) or 'The Tao of Motorcycles' or any of the 1001 silly books that start with 'Tao'. You should probably lighten up a little! Smiling never hurt anybody. 
I've gotta say... Amazing thread. Not just because of the points you brought up Meowhead in your OP, but because of the kinds of post this thread will generate
. Also it's good to see not only Cali59 can plaster together huge walls of text.
Oh and I'm also excited for ArenaNet's blue trees and I cannot wait for the blog on how players can genetically modify the trees to come in different shades of blue. ^_^
Cynical much?
Very nice write up friend. You did a good job of trying to remain as neutral as possible.
I for one am very excited about this game... I will miss being able to gang newbz.... its shameless fun. But it's a small sacrifice if the PvP is anywhere near as good and competitive as it was in GW1
"Don't mistake a fun game for a good game... Checkers is fun to play but its not exactly the highest point of gaming design... and definatly not worth $60 plus $15 a month"
WvWvW is an alternative but I beleive it's scaled to were you still can't 1 shot someon 20 levels than and what not.
I might get banned for this. - Rizel Star.
I'm not afraid to tell trolls what they [need] to hear, even if that means for me to have an forced absence afterwards.
P2P LOGIC = If it's P2P it means longevity, overall better game, and THE BEST SUPPORT EVER!!!!!(Which has been rinsed and repeated about a thousand times)
Common Sense Logic = P2P logic is no better than F2P Logic.
Yeah im stoked for it... i mean they came right out and said that there would not be world pvp so its not like I was expecting it. Ill just save that nosatlgia for the good ol days of camping southshore with my best friend lol.
DAoC style battles rock my socks though so yeah... bring it on
"Don't mistake a fun game for a good game... Checkers is fun to play but its not exactly the highest point of gaming design... and definatly not worth $60 plus $15 a month"
Oh my word, Meowhead, you are awesome. I think anytime I'm moved to post on these forums in the future, I will simply link to and quote this post's relevant bits instead.
I think you and I share the same basic belief that it's the broad philisophical strokes that Arenanet paints with that really makes GW2 worth looking at.
I think it's one of the reason that GW2 has such... exceedingly zealous fans at time. It's because it specifically has design philosophies that other MMORPGs tend not to. Sort of like why Darkfall had such enthusiastic fans... it catered to a specific design some people wanted in their MMORPG.
I also think that's why some people don't understand the point to GW2 at =all=, because those design features are non-issues to them. It's like a one armed person wondering what's the big deal about this new 'buy two gloves at once' fad going on. 
I like your posts though! They're more personal. You explain specifically why features appeal to YOU. Mine is sort of a vague fuzzy overview.
I tried to be reasonable, by pointing out that not everybody will like the sorts of things that I (and may others) do, but maybe I was a bit TOO reasonable. If I had replaced 'your mileage may vary' with 'and this applies to you too and you just don't know it', probably could have gotten a whole lot more (angry) responses, and flooded this thread with hundreds of posts by now.