Velika: City of Wheels: Among the mortal races, the humans were the only one that never built cities or great empires; a curse laid upon them by their creator, Gidd, forced them to wander as nomads for twenty centuries...
so i bought the game the other day (darn peer pressure) and i must say i have gone from hater to ... meh its not bad. now mind you i am only level 15 powertech ...
grouping has been pretty fun .... though i wish there was a bit more incentive to group up
the story is very well done ... though i wish my responses were a bit more impactful
I still wish they did not put so much effort into the voice overs and spent more time on other content options. like Rifts er rifts and invasions or Warhammers PQs.
It's one of the things that just baffle me. PQ in WAR and invasions in Rift were SO succesful, I thought they would become a new standard of "must have", at least in some form. Invasions really elevated Rift beyond anything I had seen before, same PQ in War.
This I cannot agree with. Rifts became extremely boring and well no one cared about them in time, and PQs became completeley non existant. The only time anyone cared to do either is if something new involved them, which didn t last too long. That dynamic becomes more stale then anything so called new to MMOs.
so i bought the game the other day (darn peer pressure) and i must say i have gone from hater to ... meh its not bad. now mind you i am only level 15 powertech ...
grouping has been pretty fun .... though i wish there was a bit more incentive to group up
the story is very well done ... though i wish my responses were a bit more impactful
I still wish they did not put so much effort into the voice overs and spent more time on other content options. like Rifts er rifts and invasions or Warhammers PQs.
It's one of the things that just baffle me. PQ in WAR and invasions in Rift were SO succesful, I thought they would become a new standard of "must have", at least in some form. Invasions really elevated Rift beyond anything I had seen before, same PQ in War.
PQ and Invasions were abandond shortly afterlaunch, Blizz removed world bosses from WoW too, either too many people complained or no-one was doing them any more... Today the one thing you have to have in a game is content on demand, just like i dont watch TV any more but use the VOD services from my cable company or a provider like hulu to get my shows. It's faster, easier, and much less annoying... oh and you don't have to "play" on their schedule.
Instanced content, and more important "Instant" content glued with flashy game mechanics that will keep people intrested while leveling and will stay fresh enough to enable them to level additional chars are more important than any other gimmic like rift's and PQ's. And yes i loved rifts, for the first 3 weeks chasing them in groups spwaning a raid boss, and what do you now? a month and a half after launch no one was doing them, if you started a new char you could only do the soloable rifts and nothing more... every thing else would be out of reach because even if there were players in the same zone they could not care less because they've seen them all before, they dont give enough rewards, and they take too long to complete.
I'm playing Rift now. Invasions and rift events are still a major part of the game and haven't been abandoned. I really have no idea where you are getting your "facts" from.
Also, GW2 is basically hanging its hat on a heavily modified and enhanced version of the PQ concept called dynamic events. This concept is far from abandoned.
if you like instanced content so much, then I think you may be interested in single player games. Everything is instanced in there.
so i bought the game the other day (darn peer pressure) and i must say i have gone from hater to ... meh its not bad. now mind you i am only level 15 powertech ...
grouping has been pretty fun .... though i wish there was a bit more incentive to group up
the story is very well done ... though i wish my responses were a bit more impactful
I still wish they did not put so much effort into the voice overs and spent more time on other content options. like Rifts er rifts and invasions or Warhammers PQs.
It's one of the things that just baffle me. PQ in WAR and invasions in Rift were SO succesful, I thought they would become a new standard of "must have", at least in some form. Invasions really elevated Rift beyond anything I had seen before, same PQ in War.
I agree.
My thoughts on PQ's and Rifts were that, while a bit repetitive and still flawed, actually brought a really good "MMO" feel to the game. When a big invasion happens in Rift, tons of players drop what they're doing and band together to fend off the bad guys. It really helped break the monotony of the quest grind. But like I said, they had flaws. Rift events and PQ's were both pretty "boilerplate" in that once you do one, the rest will seem very similar.
That said, I really think that this concept of the public quest could be something really great. Just imagine in SWTOR if you're just grinding away quests on Dromund Kass and all of a sudden you hear "A Republic raid has been detected at the lightning towers! All available assets are required to defend the towers!" Then you could try to defend the towers from republic soldiers. Heck, they could even let republic players of appropriate leveling participate in the raid and try to capture the towers for some good open-world PvP on PvP servers.
It would have just made the world feel so much more alive. Everything is just so static.
Great idea indeed! Agreed.
People don't ask questions to get answers - they ask questions to show how smart they are. - Dogbert
so i bought the game the other day (darn peer pressure) and i must say i have gone from hater to ... meh its not bad. now mind you i am only level 15 powertech ...
grouping has been pretty fun .... though i wish there was a bit more incentive to group up
the story is very well done ... though i wish my responses were a bit more impactful
I still wish they did not put so much effort into the voice overs and spent more time on other content options. like Rifts er rifts and invasions or Warhammers PQs.
It's one of the things that just baffle me. PQ in WAR and invasions in Rift were SO succesful, I thought they would become a new standard of "must have", at least in some form. Invasions really elevated Rift beyond anything I had seen before, same PQ in War.
PQ and Invasions were abandond shortly afterlaunch, Blizz removed world bosses from WoW too, either too many people complained or no-one was doing them any more... Today the one thing you have to have in a game is content on demand, just like i dont watch TV any more but use the VOD services from my cable company or a provider like hulu to get my shows. It's faster, easier, and much less annoying... oh and you don't have to "play" on their schedule.
Instanced content, and more important "Instant" content glued with flashy game mechanics that will keep people intrested while leveling and will stay fresh enough to enable them to level additional chars are more important than any other gimmic like rift's and PQ's. And yes i loved rifts, for the first 3 weeks chasing them in groups spwaning a raid boss, and what do you now? a month and a half after launch no one was doing them, if you started a new char you could only do the soloable rifts and nothing more... every thing else would be out of reach because even if there were players in the same zone they could not care less because they've seen them all before, they dont give enough rewards, and they take too long to complete.
I'm playing Rift now. Invasions and rift events are still a major part of the game and haven't been abandoned. I really have no idea where you are getting your "facts" from.
Also, GW2 is basically hanging its hat on a heavily modified and enhanced version of the PQ concept called dynamic events. This concept is far from abandoned.
if you like instanced content so much, then I think you may be interested in single player games. Everything is instanced in there.
I still have a sub going to Rift, not sure why, but they re not that active, rifts that is. Most people just pass by them now, and are more concerned with end game. The idea if done right , for example eq2 s PQs, not always up, and damn good rewards, would make them alot better.
You have to remember programmers design MMOs. They can create amazing thing's with the machines and codes they utilize but they suck at almost any type of basic understanding of socializng with real human beings. the ones i know who are helping me design my game right now, spend a great deal of time interfacing with machines and porn and ramen noodles if we have to pull an all-nighter and we are on vent or IRC I hear load's of strange math jokes and talk of dilbert and family guy.
These are grown men as well.
I can't expect them to help me figure out the social aspect's of my game because they don't get concepts like that.and if they do? they can be pretty harsh about it.
I can only imagine that many TOR Devs are not to dissimilar .. i in that way. dd in.
But you can see this disconect in many MMOs regardless if your in-game or on the forums. they treat people like machines and when you don't act like one you get the rule book thrown at you.
Something in TOR was not right. I can't really say what that is though. it's not that I wont say, it's that i can't put my finger on it. I chalk it up to me being a jaded player maybe.
But is was lacking something? maybe like a great meal you had many years ago, then decided to try again but something was missing this time, like a certain ingredient it's missing this time around. could be an SWG thing with me. maybe i need a shrink :P
UO had user generated content sure...but all you could do is place and decorate houses...that was it. UO was very much an RPG about killing mobs, getting treasure, and fighting other players. And really, if there was anything that made social hubs so important in UO, it was the lack of chat channels.
Nowadays, social hubs are just the zone where most people are so you reach a lot of people in general chat. Chat...hmmm...social right? In WoW, these were Ironforge and Orgrimmar.
Social hubs form over time, they don't just appear. C-net in SWG became a social hub, it didn't become one over-night though. Early on a lot of people hung out around Anchorhead and Bestine, later Naboo cities such as Theed.
Right now on Fatman the main "Social Hub" seems to be the fleet for the republic players, lot's of people hanging around chatting there. Again though it's really early for things such as Social Hubs to be known as Social hubs.
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson
Project rips a wall of text out of the ground, Upheaval procs Project rips another wall of text out of the ground
Project crits you for 15K damage.... GG
Long posts are good when there are lots of points to make.
1) ToR has more comic reliefs than most games out there including WoW and they dont end with npc names ala harris pilton... And no i dont want to see any jar jars out there i want to re-enact the kiss the pavement scene from america x every time i see a guild name like meesaaa pew pew or meessso jedi or jar jar blinks or any other dumb refernce to faux wars episode 1-3.
2) Hmm i dont remeber the last time i've seen a social hub in a game ever, heck EQ1 didnt had any social hubs, social hubs form on RP servers on their own pace and in their own location. Other than that there is no need for social hubs in an MMO today, this is not a "social" game this is a cooperative and or competetive game, some hubs will naturally emerge when they add mini games like pazzak and swoop racing to the game, but other than i had enough of naked Goldshiers to last me a life time.... I never got RP's even tho i made several chars on RP server mostly just to make fun of other RP's while RPing, me and my gf made 2 rogues name bonnie and clyde several times on diffrent RP servers and i've trolled the RP's while she yelled at me both in game and out of it to stop being an ass.
Other than that i never had "meet" and "greet" i've hated lagforge during vanilla and quite disliked SW after the AH unification patch. I usually log out in some remote inn to not be bothered by instant spam from gold famers and having to go trough 5000 naked levle 1 bankalts to get to my mail box. That said ToR has 1000 times more reasons to go to the "hub" AKA the fleet than WoW has had since the meeting stones were interduced.... not to mention since the instant LFG que system was added. ToR requires you to actually get back to the fleet if you want to group or allows you to group up on a planet and use the FP shuttle but that is usually much harder to accomplish than building a group on the fleet.
Social hubs ?
Eq2 - parts of each city, on my server qeynos harbor and willow wood were hangouts ( as well as the crafting areas ). In freeport the dark elf starting area was quite the place !
Swg - cantinas everywhere, especially mos eisely ( go figure hehe ) and player cities. Coming up on a player city and chatting up the locals when I was on a BH mission was good fun !
Vanguard - currently Veskels and tanvu are both big hangout for all levels crafting and the like although back in the day Leth Nure was my hub, or Khal.
DDO - Marketplace bank ( in front of ) is pretty happening aslo the harbor area ( between bank and AH ) easy access to ship there and there are many folks hanging out there daily
WoW - Org / undercity / stormwind / ironforge
That said, what i liked about the above games is a diversity of areas to "hang out in" these games were not "lobby games" akin to the old "Microsoft gaming zone" or FPS lobbies .... which it seems many an MMO are now nearly replicating
Again what is so "social" about these zone? Moonwalking at 3am in ironforge because there is nothing to do? jumping on the top of the fountain in SW? being the cow on top of the mailbox? what do you need from these places besides AH and a Mail Box? nothing.... You log on your friends are on you friend list and the guild, you talk to them in /w or /g or what ever. There are no more social than stairing at a wall. Again this is my opinion, it is my opinion that any normal person should think the way i do but thats what all insane people usually thing so i dont know
During Vanilla my HS was in SW in the pig and whistle inn(Dragon Lance ), after the AH patch i moved it to loch modan, where it stayed untill Dalaran sadly since you needed the protals way more than in TBC. in Cata i moved lochmodan again.
I logon no tradepsam chat, no loggin into a room in an inn looking at 7 naked gnomes "rping", no bank alts, nothing it is heaven
so i bought the game the other day (darn peer pressure) and i must say i have gone from hater to ... meh its not bad. now mind you i am only level 15 powertech ...
grouping has been pretty fun .... though i wish there was a bit more incentive to group up
the story is very well done ... though i wish my responses were a bit more impactful
I still wish they did not put so much effort into the voice overs and spent more time on other content options. like Rifts er rifts and invasions or Warhammers PQs.
It's one of the things that just baffle me. PQ in WAR and invasions in Rift were SO succesful, I thought they would become a new standard of "must have", at least in some form. Invasions really elevated Rift beyond anything I had seen before, same PQ in War.
PQ and Invasions were abandond shortly afterlaunch, Blizz removed world bosses from WoW too, either too many people complained or no-one was doing them any more... Today the one thing you have to have in a game is content on demand, just like i dont watch TV any more but use the VOD services from my cable company or a provider like hulu to get my shows. It's faster, easier, and much less annoying... oh and you don't have to "play" on their schedule.
Instanced content, and more important "Instant" content glued with flashy game mechanics that will keep people intrested while leveling and will stay fresh enough to enable them to level additional chars are more important than any other gimmic like rift's and PQ's. And yes i loved rifts, for the first 3 weeks chasing them in groups spwaning a raid boss, and what do you now? a month and a half after launch no one was doing them, if you started a new char you could only do the soloable rifts and nothing more... every thing else would be out of reach because even if there were players in the same zone they could not care less because they've seen them all before, they dont give enough rewards, and they take too long to complete.
I'm playing Rift now. Invasions and rift events are still a major part of the game and haven't been abandoned. I really have no idea where you are getting your "facts" from.
Also, GW2 is basically hanging its hat on a heavily modified and enhanced version of the PQ concept called dynamic events. This concept is far from abandoned.
if you like instanced content so much, then I think you may be interested in single player games. Everything is instanced in there.
I still have a sub going to Rift, not sure why, but they re not that active, rifts that is. Most people just pass by them now, and are more concerned with end game. The idea if done right , for example eq2 s PQs, not always up, and damn good rewards, would make them alot better.
Hmm...maybe it's the server you're on, they are pretty active on mine (Wolfsbane). But anyway, I agree with what you're saying. Despite my praise of rift events, I think they are flawed in that they are too generic and basically overdone. In other words, they get old fast.
But like you, I still think that this concept could be really great. I think with GW2 we will find if this concept can be the "mainstay" of a game or not.
All is heroic, all is like made of steel, but so devoid of feeling, of soul, of heart! Take the quest on Tython, where you save a baby animal. You don't see any cute scene of that baby animal, just a line "oh, it is safe now" end of story. This is so symptomatic of what this game lacks. Heart.
This is so true and I hate it, I hate playing in an MMO where I'm the designated 'hero' - along with all the other players who will also be the designated hero. It just doesn't fit. It's a war, we're either fighting Republic or Empire, we're all in this together, we're not heroes, we're well trained people on the same side. But thanks to all the voice overs there are no people on the same side, there is only your character, the hero, the savior of worlds, the bringer of justice, etc, etc.. ack! It's such a bad idea to put something like that in an MMO.
Also on the subject of heroes, I made a Smuggler specifically because I didn't want to be a hero, leave that to the Jedi with their hokey religion, I wanted to be busting into Imperial bases and stealing weapons, only to go on and sell them to the Republic later for some easy credits. But no, here too everyone calls me a damn hero and I'm stuck on some stupid treasure hunting quest. Argh! No! When did Han Solo ever pick up an ancient map and go treasure hunting? Yeesh..
For one: those cities are WAY too big. People are spread thin all over. I never have this feeling of "meet and greet", like on Stormwind marketplace or Goldshire. Or Qeynos Harbour! Or the old Mos Eisley in SWG. Those cities always were so alife! Stormwind was so animated. It felt llike a real, living place. With kids playing chase, a bread seller walking by, guards exchanged, and the design was small, so people felt like it was full of players. Here in SWTOR, in those huge houses and giant cities, player hurry from story NPC to story NPC. I never saw people talk in a place or gather or anything that remotely reminds me of a social life.
This is the problem with having a linear quest chain, people just go from point A to point Z with no deviation. They don't stop over in a city because they've done all the quests for that city, the next load of quests is on the other planet! Repeat this for all planets and you can see the problem. People are spread so thin and so busy following the carrot hovering in front of their nose that they don't have a choice to look up and around and consider doing something else. Not that there would be anything else to do, of course.
I must just repeat after a while, I see clearly how the TOTAL lack of ANY non-story more sandbox elements will break this game in the long run. In WOW & LOTRO and spent a considerable time just fishing. And it was fun! Did I get a new fish, or just seaweed, or a weird relic?? Sometimes I got a super fish in LOTRO and I could let it prepared and hung on my wall in my house! There was a fishing contest at spring holiday! Or at Christmas, my Halfelf Paladin was wearing a funny santa cap, and I made snowball battles with my guildmates!
I think this is the one thing I've been missing in game and I could never put my finger on what it was. Well done for pointing it out. It's the ability to go and do something else - anything else - except combat. Flashpoints, PvP, Questing, it's all the same. People will say, "Oh, but there's crafting!", but the problem is, you don't craft, you send one of your companions off to do the crafting while you continue with your combat. Hell, I'd crafted a dozen items while I was in the middle of the Esseles Flashpoint!
For just five minutes I'd like to stop and do something else, it doesn't all have to be whizz boom bang, I'd like to do something else with my time now and then besides chase the proverbial carrot from planet to planet. The social aspect of this game is severely lacking - but then, what do you expect, it plays so much like a single player game that it probably didn't even cross the developers minds that players might want to do something else with their time.
Again what is so "social" about these zone? Moonwalking at 3am in ironforge because there is nothing to do? jumping on the top of the fountain in SW? being the cow on top of the mailbox? what do you need from these places besides AH and a Mail Box? nothing.... You log on your friends are on you friend list and the guild, you talk to them in /w or /g or what ever. There are no more social than stairing at a wall. Again this is my opinion, it is my opinion that any normal person should think the way i do but thats what all insane people usually thing so i dont know
During Vanilla my HS was in SW in the pig and whistle inn(Dragon Lance ), after the AH patch i moved it to loch modan, where it stayed untill Dalaran sadly since you needed the protals way more than in TBC. in Cata i moved lochmodan again.
I logon no tradepsam chat, no loggin into a room in an inn looking at 7 naked gnomes "rping", no bank alts, nothing it is heaven
Ummm...isn't the text highlighted essentially players socializing. The 7 naked gnomes may look like "freaks" to you, but maybe they are friends that are socializing in...oh, I don't know, a social hub?
I don't think it's that social hubs don't exist...I think you just don't like them and try to deny their existence. You basically just said that you're happy to get away from "tradespam chat...naked gnomes rping." In other words, you're happy to get away from a social hub. You essentially just admitted their existence.
I still wish they did not put so much effort into the voice overs and spent more time on other content options. like Rifts er rifts and invasions or Warhammers PQs.
And then you would have complaints all over the forums about how rifts and PQ's are nothing new and how boring they are as we already did them to death.
The paradox is that the same people who are saying they want something new are then complaining again when a game doesn't play in the same way as they are used to.
Whatever the devs do, people will be complaining.
But I agree with you, these features would be nice.
so i bought the game the other day (darn peer pressure) and i must say i have gone from hater to ... meh its not bad. now mind you i am only level 15 powertech ...
grouping has been pretty fun .... though i wish there was a bit more incentive to group up
the story is very well done ... though i wish my responses were a bit more impactful
I still wish they did not put so much effort into the voice overs and spent more time on other content options. like Rifts er rifts and invasions or Warhammers PQs.
It's one of the things that just baffle me. PQ in WAR and invasions in Rift were SO succesful, I thought they would become a new standard of "must have", at least in some form. Invasions really elevated Rift beyond anything I had seen before, same PQ in War.
I agree.
My thoughts on PQ's and Rifts were that, while a bit repetitive and still flawed, actually brought a really good "MMO" feel to the game. When a big invasion happens in Rift, tons of players drop what they're doing and band together to fend off the bad guys. It really helped break the monotony of the quest grind. But like I said, they had flaws. Rift events and PQ's were both pretty "boilerplate" in that once you do one, the rest will seem very similar.
That said, I really think that this concept of the public quest could be something really great. Just imagine in SWTOR if you're just grinding away quests on Dromund Kass and all of a sudden you hear "A Republic raid has been detected at the lightning towers! All available assets are required to defend the towers!" Then you could try to defend the towers from republic soldiers. Heck, they could even let republic players of appropriate leveling participate in the raid and try to capture the towers for some good open-world PvP on PvP servers.
It would have just made the world feel so much more alive. Everything is just so static.
yes please!
something more dynamic than just jumping from quest to quest. I always liked how rift invasions could take over quest hubs and make players take them back. I thought Invasions added a lot to the game.
You are no hater Elikal. Passionate is what I would call it. You see the finer things in the surroundings, things that when omitted make the world feel contrived and sterile. When I canceled my sub yesterday, somewhere in the comment I used the word 'soulless'. At least I have until the 20th to get my money's worth out of it as much as possible.
I completely agree with your post but I think what is done is done. There is nothing that can be done to give the game whatever it is we feel is missing.
It either has it from the start or it doesn't. What I want to know is if it's by accident or certain talented people on board.
There seems to be a lot of discussion about social areas on this thread so I'll start there. In almost every other MMO out there the social areas evolved naturally through the players. EC wasn't designed to be a common area in EQ but that's where the players began to congregate and it took off from there. Complaining that the devs didn't make a socnal gathering spot is a little moot. The game isn't even a month old. Social areas will naturally develop as the game matures and people start hanging out in certain areas. As far as the PQs go, I agree, I think TOR could benefit greatly from some sort of "open content". I have faith in bioware and I would be surprised if the weren't working on something like that to go with a future content update. This game has been in development for a very long time and many things have changed in MMOs since it started. If they tried to add every new thing from other mmos it would never come out. All I'm saying is be patient and see what happens.
Even if you don't need Ewoks or Gungans, the game could use a bit more comic relief overall. The part about social hubs are spot on IMO. Very good post! Wall of text but worth the read.
My thoughts on PQ's and Rifts were that, while a bit repetitive and still flawed, actually brought a really good "MMO" feel to the game. When a big invasion happens in Rift, tons of players drop what they're doing and band together to fend off the bad guys. It really helped break the monotony of the quest grind. But like I said, they had flaws. Rift events and PQ's were both pretty "boilerplate" in that once you do one, the rest will seem very similar.
That said, I really think that this concept of the public quest could be something really great. Just imagine in SWTOR if you're just grinding away quests on Dromund Kass and all of a sudden you hear "A Republic raid has been detected at the lightning towers! All available assets are required to defend the towers!" Then you could try to defend the towers from republic soldiers. Heck, they could even let republic players of appropriate leveling participate in the raid and try to capture the towers for some good open-world PvP on PvP servers.
It would have just made the world feel so much more alive. Everything is just so static.
Nope. The future is the opposite. More small group content on demand.
WOW is immensely successful with DF and LFR features and all the new content will have those features.
WOW is putting in scenarios in the next expansion .. and that is essentially instanced group quests (probably closer to a TOR flashpoint than a WOW group quset). I predict that it will be very popular too because it is very convenient.
My thoughts on PQ's and Rifts were that, while a bit repetitive and still flawed, actually brought a really good "MMO" feel to the game. When a big invasion happens in Rift, tons of players drop what they're doing and band together to fend off the bad guys. It really helped break the monotony of the quest grind. But like I said, they had flaws. Rift events and PQ's were both pretty "boilerplate" in that once you do one, the rest will seem very similar.
That said, I really think that this concept of the public quest could be something really great. Just imagine in SWTOR if you're just grinding away quests on Dromund Kass and all of a sudden you hear "A Republic raid has been detected at the lightning towers! All available assets are required to defend the towers!" Then you could try to defend the towers from republic soldiers. Heck, they could even let republic players of appropriate leveling participate in the raid and try to capture the towers for some good open-world PvP on PvP servers.
It would have just made the world feel so much more alive. Everything is just so static.
Nope. The future is the opposite. More small group content on demand.
WOW is immensely successful with DF and LFR features and all the new content will have those features.
WOW is putting in scenarios in the next expansion .. and that is essentially instanced group quests (probably closer to a TOR flashpoint than a WOW group quset). I predict that it will be very popular too because it is very convenient.
Guild Wars 2 will decide whether you're right or not I think. We'll just have to see.
But I hope you're wrong.
Because really, what you're saying is that MMORPGs will essentially no longer exist. What you are describing is basically a CORPG.
Guild Wars 2 will decide whether you're right or not I think. We'll just have to see.
But I hope you're wrong.
Because really, what you're saying is that MMORPGs will essentially no longer exist. What you are describing is basically a CORPG.
Well considering people are starting to view features such as cross-server dungeon finders, and the instant action lobby systems they create as requirements. I have a feeling, CORPGs are what people really want.
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson
Guild Wars 2 will decide whether you're right or not I think. We'll just have to see.
But I hope you're wrong.
Because really, what you're saying is that MMORPGs will essentially no longer exist. What you are describing is basically a CORPG.
Well considering people are starting to view features such as cross-server dungeon finders, and the instant action lobby systems they create as requirements. I have a feeling, CORPGs are what people really want.
And if this is the case, then I wish these games would just drop the persistent world and not charge sub fees. It's not necessary to have one. If the multiplayer game is predicated on dungeon and PvP queues...then there really is no purpose in having a persistent world. I would be all for these games if they just did like GW did and not claim to be an MMORPG. But the fact that they do, just makes me think they are trying to justify a sub fee for a CORPG.
Note that I'm not saying you can't have these things in a persistent world...you just have to have major multiplayer content OTHER than them. Like PQ's or something. Just something to justify the persistent world.
And if this is the case, then I wish these games would just drop the persistent world and not charge sub fees. It's not necessary to have one. If the multiplayer game is predicated on dungeon and PvP queues...then there really is no purpose in having a persistent world. I would be all for these games if they just did like GW did and not claim to be an MMORPG. But the fact that they do, just makes me think they are trying to justify a sub fee for a CORPG.
Note that I'm not saying you can't have these things in a persistent world...you just have to have major multiplayer content OTHER than them. Like PQ's or something. Just something to justify the persistent world.
I agree on a basic level. I feel that the instant action mentality completely renders a world VOID, it no longer serves the purposes intended. I'm not a big stickler on the idea of artificial ambience, the birds chirping or not really has no effect on my senses. On the other hand though, I view the world as the gateway to friendships, rivalries etc.. the things that promote clan warfare in open world PVP, without a world that won't exist.
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson
Even if you don't need Ewoks or Gungans, the game could use a bit more comic relief overall. The part about social hubs are spot on IMO. Very good post! Wall of text but worth the read.
Another non fan of Ewoks / Gungans here as well. I have no desire to see those in a game ever. The social hub aspect I agree with the OP with as well. The station is incrediblely functional with easy access to everything, but feels limited for display purposes (ala my new purple lightsabre).
East Commonlands was pretty much the opposite of this. There were no support services there. Players told each other about the area and we went there. In Luclin, Sony added a prebuilt social hub. I did not like the design of that one either. ToR also deliberately built a social hub. The issue is the design of ToR's social hub. Is there a way to make / move the hub to increase the feeling of a persistant world?
so i bought the game the other day (darn peer pressure) and i must say i have gone from hater to ... meh its not bad. now mind you i am only level 15 powertech ...
grouping has been pretty fun .... though i wish there was a bit more incentive to group up
the story is very well done ... though i wish my responses were a bit more impactful
I still wish they did not put so much effort into the voice overs and spent more time on other content options. like Rifts er rifts and invasions or Warhammers PQs.
It's one of the things that just baffle me. PQ in WAR and invasions in Rift were SO succesful, I thought they would become a new standard of "must have", at least in some form. Invasions really elevated Rift beyond anything I had seen before, same PQ in War.
This is where I feel totally different Rifts & Invasions were fun for the first few times and then they became a hindrance to playing the game and that should never happen, thats why players started to ignore them or just log out in beta, you should never put a element in your game that stops players from contiuing to play how they want and I think Bioware have done this you don't have to do the main story past level 10 (i'm not sure if you need to finish the story prior to level 10 though) you can choose what you want to do to level, missions, repeatable heroics, PvP, flashpoints, space missions to me the Rifts and Invasions were the downfall of Rift and Bioware rightly ignored them.
As for PQ's on paper a great idea but they were static and became the same as with rifts very repetative but this idea could be improved on and maybe GW2's version might be the right way to do it, but thats really the core element GW2 like story is for SW:TOR a game company only has so much time, resources and money and they have to allocate that to where they think its best for them and thats why games have a few major elements and loads of minor ones you cannot be all things to all people, this is what Trion thought they could do and turned out a bland generic mish mash of other games.
This doom and gloom thread was brought to you by Chin Up the new ultra high caffeine soft drink for gamers who just need that boost of happiness after a long forum session.
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Velika: City of Wheels: Among the mortal races, the humans were the only one that never built cities or great empires; a curse laid upon them by their creator, Gidd, forced them to wander as nomads for twenty centuries...
This I cannot agree with. Rifts became extremely boring and well no one cared about them in time, and PQs became completeley non existant. The only time anyone cared to do either is if something new involved them, which didn t last too long. That dynamic becomes more stale then anything so called new to MMOs.
I'm playing Rift now. Invasions and rift events are still a major part of the game and haven't been abandoned. I really have no idea where you are getting your "facts" from.
Also, GW2 is basically hanging its hat on a heavily modified and enhanced version of the PQ concept called dynamic events. This concept is far from abandoned.
if you like instanced content so much, then I think you may be interested in single player games. Everything is instanced in there.
Are you team Azeroth, team Tyria, or team Jacob?
Great idea indeed! Agreed.
People don't ask questions to get answers - they ask questions to show how smart they are. - Dogbert
I still have a sub going to Rift, not sure why, but they re not that active, rifts that is. Most people just pass by them now, and are more concerned with end game. The idea if done right , for example eq2 s PQs, not always up, and damn good rewards, would make them alot better.
You have to remember programmers design MMOs. They can create amazing thing's with the machines and codes they utilize but they suck at almost any type of basic understanding of socializng with real human beings. the ones i know who are helping me design my game right now, spend a great deal of time interfacing with machines and porn and ramen noodles if we have to pull an all-nighter and we are on vent or IRC I hear load's of strange math jokes and talk of dilbert and family guy.
These are grown men as well.
I can't expect them to help me figure out the social aspect's of my game because they don't get concepts like that.and if they do? they can be pretty harsh about it.
I can only imagine that many TOR Devs are not to dissimilar .. i in that way. dd in.
But you can see this disconect in many MMOs regardless if your in-game or on the forums. they treat people like machines and when you don't act like one you get the rule book thrown at you.
Something in TOR was not right. I can't really say what that is though. it's not that I wont say, it's that i can't put my finger on it. I chalk it up to me being a jaded player maybe.
But is was lacking something? maybe like a great meal you had many years ago, then decided to try again but something was missing this time, like a certain ingredient it's missing this time around. could be an SWG thing with me. maybe i need a shrink :P
Social hubs form over time, they don't just appear. C-net in SWG became a social hub, it didn't become one over-night though. Early on a lot of people hung out around Anchorhead and Bestine, later Naboo cities such as Theed.
Right now on Fatman the main "Social Hub" seems to be the fleet for the republic players, lot's of people hanging around chatting there. Again though it's really early for things such as Social Hubs to be known as Social hubs.
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson
Again what is so "social" about these zone? Moonwalking at 3am in ironforge because there is nothing to do? jumping on the top of the fountain in SW? being the cow on top of the mailbox? what do you need from these places besides AH and a Mail Box? nothing.... You log on your friends are on you friend list and the guild, you talk to them in /w or /g or what ever. There are no more social than stairing at a wall. Again this is my opinion, it is my opinion that any normal person should think the way i do but thats what all insane people usually thing so i dont know
During Vanilla my HS was in SW in the pig and whistle inn(Dragon Lance
), after the AH patch i moved it to loch modan, where it stayed untill Dalaran sadly since you needed the protals way more than in TBC. in Cata i moved lochmodan again.
I logon no tradepsam chat, no loggin into a room in an inn looking at 7 naked gnomes "rping", no bank alts, nothing it is heaven
Hmm...maybe it's the server you're on, they are pretty active on mine (Wolfsbane). But anyway, I agree with what you're saying. Despite my praise of rift events, I think they are flawed in that they are too generic and basically overdone. In other words, they get old fast.
But like you, I still think that this concept could be really great. I think with GW2 we will find if this concept can be the "mainstay" of a game or not.
Are you team Azeroth, team Tyria, or team Jacob?
Ummm...isn't the text highlighted essentially players socializing. The 7 naked gnomes may look like "freaks" to you, but maybe they are friends that are socializing in...oh, I don't know, a social hub?
I don't think it's that social hubs don't exist...I think you just don't like them and try to deny their existence. You basically just said that you're happy to get away from "tradespam chat...naked gnomes rping." In other words, you're happy to get away from a social hub. You essentially just admitted their existence.
Are you team Azeroth, team Tyria, or team Jacob?
And then you would have complaints all over the forums about how rifts and PQ's are nothing new and how boring they are as we already did them to death.
The paradox is that the same people who are saying they want something new are then complaining again when a game doesn't play in the same way as they are used to.
Whatever the devs do, people will be complaining.
But I agree with you, these features would be nice.
yes please!
something more dynamic than just jumping from quest to quest. I always liked how rift invasions could take over quest hubs and make players take them back. I thought Invasions added a lot to the game.
When I canceled my sub yesterday, somewhere in the comment I used the word 'soulless'.
At least I have until the 20th to get my money's worth out of it as much as possible.
I completely agree with your post but I think what is done is done. There is nothing that can be done to give the game whatever it is we feel is missing.
It either has it from the start or it doesn't. What I want to know is if it's by accident or certain talented people on board.
There's no ghost in that shell.
There seems to be a lot of discussion about social areas on this thread so I'll start there. In almost every other MMO out there the social areas evolved naturally through the players. EC wasn't designed to be a common area in EQ but that's where the players began to congregate and it took off from there. Complaining that the devs didn't make a socnal gathering spot is a little moot. The game isn't even a month old. Social areas will naturally develop as the game matures and people start hanging out in certain areas. As far as the PQs go, I agree, I think TOR could benefit greatly from some sort of "open content". I have faith in bioware and I would be surprised if the weren't working on something like that to go with a future content update. This game has been in development for a very long time and many things have changed in MMOs since it started. If they tried to add every new thing from other mmos it would never come out. All I'm saying is be patient and see what happens.
Even if you don't need Ewoks or Gungans, the game could use a bit more comic relief overall. The part about social hubs are spot on IMO. Very good post! Wall of text but worth the read.
Nope. The future is the opposite. More small group content on demand.
WOW is immensely successful with DF and LFR features and all the new content will have those features.
WOW is putting in scenarios in the next expansion .. and that is essentially instanced group quests (probably closer to a TOR flashpoint than a WOW group quset). I predict that it will be very popular too because it is very convenient.
Guild Wars 2 will decide whether you're right or not I think. We'll just have to see.
But I hope you're wrong.
Because really, what you're saying is that MMORPGs will essentially no longer exist. What you are describing is basically a CORPG.
Are you team Azeroth, team Tyria, or team Jacob?
Well considering people are starting to view features such as cross-server dungeon finders, and the instant action lobby systems they create as requirements. I have a feeling, CORPGs are what people really want.
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson
And if this is the case, then I wish these games would just drop the persistent world and not charge sub fees. It's not necessary to have one. If the multiplayer game is predicated on dungeon and PvP queues...then there really is no purpose in having a persistent world. I would be all for these games if they just did like GW did and not claim to be an MMORPG. But the fact that they do, just makes me think they are trying to justify a sub fee for a CORPG.
Note that I'm not saying you can't have these things in a persistent world...you just have to have major multiplayer content OTHER than them. Like PQ's or something. Just something to justify the persistent world.
Are you team Azeroth, team Tyria, or team Jacob?
I agree on a basic level. I feel that the instant action mentality completely renders a world VOID, it no longer serves the purposes intended. I'm not a big stickler on the idea of artificial ambience, the birds chirping or not really has no effect on my senses. On the other hand though, I view the world as the gateway to friendships, rivalries etc.. the things that promote clan warfare in open world PVP, without a world that won't exist.
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson
Another non fan of Ewoks / Gungans here as well. I have no desire to see those in a game ever. The social hub aspect I agree with the OP with as well. The station is incrediblely functional with easy access to everything, but feels limited for display purposes (ala my new purple lightsabre).
East Commonlands was pretty much the opposite of this. There were no support services there. Players told each other about the area and we went there. In Luclin, Sony added a prebuilt social hub. I did not like the design of that one either. ToR also deliberately built a social hub. The issue is the design of ToR's social hub. Is there a way to make / move the hub to increase the feeling of a persistant world?
1 word sums up swtor: lifeless.
Great post, I agree with you almost 100%.
This is where I feel totally different Rifts & Invasions were fun for the first few times and then they became a hindrance to playing the game and that should never happen, thats why players started to ignore them or just log out in beta, you should never put a element in your game that stops players from contiuing to play how they want and I think Bioware have done this you don't have to do the main story past level 10 (i'm not sure if you need to finish the story prior to level 10 though) you can choose what you want to do to level, missions, repeatable heroics, PvP, flashpoints, space missions to me the Rifts and Invasions were the downfall of Rift and Bioware rightly ignored them.
As for PQ's on paper a great idea but they were static and became the same as with rifts very repetative but this idea could be improved on and maybe GW2's version might be the right way to do it, but thats really the core element GW2 like story is for SW:TOR a game company only has so much time, resources and money and they have to allocate that to where they think its best for them and thats why games have a few major elements and loads of minor ones you cannot be all things to all people, this is what Trion thought they could do and turned out a bland generic mish mash of other games.
This doom and gloom thread was brought to you by Chin Up the new ultra high caffeine soft drink for gamers who just need that boost of happiness after a long forum session.