If you don't like some randomness / RNG , then a game will be filled with long obnoxious tokens / medallions grind.
Just look at Lotro ,almost all RNG got removed from this game (some players were very vocal about it) and what happened?
Game currently is one of grindest mmorpg's out there...
Overboard RNG is bad ,but imo there is NOTHING wrong with some RNG ,after all luck is part of world as well and if not made in overboard way it can spicy things a bit.
OP: Why is there a problem with this? Do you NEED to have every piece of PvP gear? The rest of the players are playing with the same rules you are... and must make the same choices about where to spend their tokens.
If you're just mad because other players will play more and have better gear than you... then this isn't the right type of game. PvE or PvP... people that play the most are going to have the best stuff. It's a gear treadmill, either way. There is no quick way to get the best stuff.
I will agree that actually getting the best PvP gear is utter boredom right now... unless you figure a way to exploit the system... and then that's not really playing the game, either.
Launching with 3 buggy warzones and an unfinished PvP planet is pretty shoddy work by Bioware.
Originally posted by Kabaal Originally posted by Vegetto The fact that the VAST majority i saw last night in all the zones i travelled in, are already level 50, dozens upon dozens of them, filling out every warzone, in full purple/Orange PvP gear i would say this; Either the grind is only 10% as hard as it should be, or people are going to get physically ill for the amount of time they are playing. So GOOD that gear is this hard to get. I have played from 15th December, at a rate of maybe a few hours every other night, last night played from 8pm-1am, which on a worknight isn't something i would want to do regularly. And i'm level 29. I would say i play a good average amount of time...as a WORKING adult who likes gaming, lets say 20-25 hours a week. It's fair to say the people moaning about this gear grind at endgame now have put in 200+ hours in a space of less than 3 weeks. Therefore, i can only assume that you have fuck all to do with your lives anyway and have the spare 20 hours a day to grind gear, if you didn't, you wouldn't be running around with a maxed char anyway. And no, you can't hit 50 in a day, so don't come that shit, as they removed those exploits. Morning rant for me done, thats better
There is no "PvP" orange gear other than the low level stuff which is no different than PvE gear and most fresh 50's just chuck on crafted purples which are pretty good. But yes, it is quite easy to get gear for some, for many it is utter hell with the lucky dip bags. It's nothing to do with putting a lot of time in but rather how lucky people get which is why so many complaints, the system doesn't reward time nor effort.
Hopefully all that is about to change with the PvP updates Bioware announced last night.
Got no issue with that argument at all, although i see most in full Battlemaster gear.
My point was it shouldn't be an issue for most people anyway, as people shouldn't have 20hrs a day to plough into a game in the first place to complain about the gear.
I think they should give out all the gear upon first log-in, hell no one wants to work for anything anymore, this is why this MMO generation is a bunch of lazy ass %^$&#ers.
Not wanting to do 50 hours of nothing but warzones for a set of gear isn't laziness. I think I might do 5 accumulated hours of them before my sub runs out or my brain melts.
gear treadmills are just stupid anyways. PvP should be for pvp sake, and not a place of gear supremacy.
An MMO without a gear grind is just a PvP game with a mediocre combat system. The gear grind progessiom is the only reason MMO PvP is appealing.
Actually things are a bit worse than that. Set gear don't show their set bonuses before you put them in your inventory, which means that you may end up with a piece of gear that the set don't match your intented way of playing the game.
Now see, right there this is the kind of stuff that happens when you lvl a new game to 50 so fast that you don't even allow the devs to fix things BEFORE you go and ruin your own experience by lvling like that in a brand new MMO. Not to mention missing most of the content that makes the game fun in the first place. People like this should not even be playing an MMO, period!
I wish I could literely travel across the earth seeking everyone who has already reached lvl 50 in this game and walk right up to them and kick them in the nuts as hard as I possibly can with steel toed army boots and run like hell away squeeling with delight!. This would give me great pleasure indeed!
Then to top that off they go to the game forums and bitch and moan and complain how bad said game sucks when it is actually themselves that do all the sucking...
This shit just really pisses me off to the extreme!
I'm about to the point that I don't even care if I get banned from here or not as the only reason I'm even here right now is cause they shut the servers down for maintennance. I will be playing this game and having great fun indeed for a very long time.
In six months time I seriously doubt I will have a character lvl 50 and I guarantee I will still be having a blast! While people like this will still be bitching and moaning and crying about how bad the game sucked...Hopefully they will be doing it in another game ...maybe guildwars 2 or something and stop giving SWToR such bad image because SWToR is the best and most enjoyable game I have played in a very long time. ANd to me the game is nothing like WOW either. I really don't see how one could even begin to compare SWToR to Warcraft other than similar game mechanics that pretty much ALL MMO's must use to allow thier game to even function.
I'm shutting up now so bring on the banhammers as I will be in a galaxy once upon a time far far away....and loving it
Wrender if you think that reaching level 50 in this game requires any kind of effort, you're deluding yourself.
The only effort required is to announce that you're willing to start a heroic 4man group, since people still are reluctant (or lazy) to start their own teams.
Originally posted by Wrender Now see, right there this is the kind of stuff that happens when you lvl a new game to 50 so fast that you don't even allow the devs to fix things BEFORE you go and ruin your own experience by lvling like that in a brand new MMO. Not to mention missing most of the content that makes the game fun in the first place. People like this should not even be playing an MMO, period! I wish I could literely travel across the earth seeking everyone who has already reached lvl 50 in this game and walk right up to them and kick them in the nuts as hard as I possibly can with steel toed army boots and run like hell away squeeling with delight!. This would give me great pleasure indeed! Then to top that off they go to the game forums and bitch and moan and complain how bad said game sucks when it is actually themselves that do all the sucking... This shit just really pisses me off to the extreme! I'm about to the point that I don't even care if I get banned from here or not as the only reason I'm even here right now is cause they shut the servers down for maintennance. I will be playing this game and having great fun indeed for a very long time. In six months time I seriously doubt I will have a character lvl 50 and I guarantee I will still be having a blast! While people like this will still be bitching and moaning and crying about how bad the game sucked...Hopefully they will be doing it in another game ...maybe guildwars 2 or something and stop giving SWToR such bad image because SWToR is the best and most enjoyable game I have played in a very long time. ANd to me the game is nothing like WOW either. I really don't see how one could even begin to compare SWToR to Warcraft other than similar game mechanics that pretty much ALL MMO's must use to allow thier game to even function. I'm shutting up now so bring on the banhammers as I will be in a galaxy once upon a time far far away....and loving it
See my previous post i edited out, but it's been quoted.
In summary, i agree 100%, and it pisses me off even more that my taxes go to pay these people to play 20 hours a day, whilst i'm here at work. (yes im alt-tabbing between work and forums lol)
What the heck is the problem. It is hard to get good gear, GOOD! That is the way it is supposed to be... I would for make it even harder.
I swear WoW and its easy street gameplay has spoiled people.
The problem is not the effort required, it's that your effort towards reaching a goal is totally random. You may need 800 warfront commendations to get an item and another guy 8000 just because he was unlucky.
Originally posted by Xasapis Wrender if you think that reaching level 50 in this game requires any kind of effort, you're deluding yourself.
The only effort required is to announce that you're willing to start a heroic 4man group, since people still are reluctant (or lazy) to start their own teams.
How many /play hours would you estimate though?
Besides the exploits that have now been fixed that the majority used btw. Over 100 hours of play at least? And thats going balls-to-the-wall skipping crap.
What the heck is the problem. It is hard to get good gear, GOOD! That is the way it is supposed to be... I would for make it even harder.
I swear WoW and its easy street gameplay has spoiled people.
There's nothing hard about it, unless you consider Time & RNG as being hard?
Velika: City of Wheels: Among the mortal races, the humans were the only one that never built cities or great empires; a curse laid upon them by their creator, Gidd, forced them to wander as nomads for twenty centuries...
I didnt say there was anything hard about it. It's just foolish to desire to want to is all. The game is brand new so why would you want to lvl like that and ruin your own experience and get burned out on one of the best games to hit the planet in the near future? I have been socializing with people in my guild. grouping up with people just to talk with them about how much they love the game so far. Lvling every class in the game to lvl 10 including both advanced classes on each side across different servers for each one(to get a feel for the different communities and different servers ) and I got to say the community is definetly pretty various on many servers. I thing Rubat Crystal had the best community of all of them as far as helpful, nice, mature and social.
And when I get that done then it will be time to explore every crafting and gathering skill in the game on all my 16 characters.
After that playing the auction house game and learning the economy game. As i attempt to start lvling my characters on the way through thier adventures. By this time there will be no telling what wonders Bioward will have added to the game and I see no end in sight for me playing like this for many many years to come and I Still may n ot have a lvl 50 char by then and hopefully will still be having a blast!
I remember it took me 6 months to level a char to 60 in WoW from the day it released, playing 10 ours a day whilst at Uni, i left soon after.
Then people figured out ways to exploit and grind to 60 in 4 days a few years later, although i believe Blizz boosted XP at early levels by a gigantic amount.
Seems people in SWTOR found the exploits and XP boosts from day one, shame.
Now they sit in Warzones and in the Fleet Station, bored shitless, funny
Wrender if you think that reaching level 50 in this game requires any kind of effort, you're deluding yourself.
The only effort required is to announce that you're willing to start a heroic 4man group, since people still are reluctant (or lazy) to start their own teams.
How many /play hours would you estimate though?
Besides the exploits that have now been fixed that the majority used btw. Over 100 hours of play at least? And thats going balls-to-the-wall skipping crap.
I skipped nothing and I was 50 before even setting foot to Corelia. I obviously used no bug (implying that the people who reached 50 cheated at this point in time is a bit naive, you should consider that we had quite a head start with the pre-order). I will need to get back from work to check on my /played, but regardless, it won't be an accurate representation since I was/am afking for a considerable amount of time.
I was not the first level 50 in my guild either mind you. The thing is, those who focused on one avatar in my guild are 50 by now or close and only those who dabbled in alts are lagging behind in their 30+.
I remember it took me 6 months to level a char to 60 in WoW from the day it released, playing 10 ours a day whilst at Uni, i left soon after.
Then people figured out ways to exploit and grind to 60 in 4 days a few years later, although i believe Blizz boosted XP at early levels by a gigantic amount.
Seems people in SWTOR found the exploits and XP boosts from day one, shame.
Now they sit in Warzones and in the Fleet Station, bored shitless, funny
This is not 2006. There are two variables that are considerably different than the early days of MMO (well, even WoW was fast levelling for its time but still ...)
Levelling today is multiple times faster.
People today know more about MMOs than they used to, thus they can speed up their levelling process.
This is not 2006. There are two variables that are considerably different than the early days of MMO (well, even WoW was fast levelling for its time but still ...)
Levelling today is multiple times faster.
People today know more about MMOs than they used to, thus they can speed up their levelling process.
Nah, I think it is more that there are guides all over the net today than that people know how to level.
Heck, when I got Meridian 59 I had a paper map I got in the box and nothing more. When I started with Lineage in the Western beta I was able to download a partial map and there were a few shortg tips for some common situation but nothing more.
Today you can get coordinates, maps and apps that tells you exactly what to do and where to go for everything. They give you stats and tells you how to kill all the bosses.
Leveling is of course also a lot easier and faster than it was just a few years back as you said.
I would say i have played casually by my standards and not at all over xmas, i unsurprisingly went on a week long drinking bender, i remember i checked my /play at around level 20ish and it was a day. Then again, there would be time learning the ropes and finding out where things are.
But considering each level increases in xp required, it's gotta be over 100 hours play for first character to get to 50.
Now consider most (according to another thread have 4+ alts with that in there 20's and you break 200 hours.
I think people underestimate how much time they have played the game, i played 5hrs last night to gain just under 2 levels, and i got a lot of big quest XP with that....fully rested too.
This is not 2006. There are two variables that are considerably different than the early days of MMO (well, even WoW was fast levelling for its time but still ...)
Levelling today is multiple times faster.
People today know more about MMOs than they used to, thus they can speed up their levelling process.
Nah, I think it is more that there are guides all over the net today than that people know how to level.
Heck, when I got Meridian 59 I had a paper map I got in the box and nothing more. When I started with Lineage in the Western beta I was able to download a partial map and there were a few shortg tips for some common situation but nothing more.
Today you can get coordinates, maps and apps that tells you exactly what to do and where to go for everything. They give you stats and tells you how to kill all the bosses.
Leveling is of course also a lot easier and faster than it was just a few years back as you said.
Ultima Underworld's map design where it would fill in as you go and you could write notes on it as well
~the good old days...
Velika: City of Wheels: Among the mortal races, the humans were the only one that never built cities or great empires; a curse laid upon them by their creator, Gidd, forced them to wander as nomads for twenty centuries...
Lol, are you trying to act cool? It's not working.
This is not working for ones gear, this is working your ass of like a 6-18 job lol.
It's fine to make people work for their gear, especially the best gear, but RNG is not the way to do it.
1. Guy opens 5 bags and get 3 unassembled marks, and 6 centurion commendations.
2. Guy who opens his 5 get 15 centurion commendations.
Is the 1. guy a better player, have he earned it more than the 2. guy??
Has the 1. guy worked harder?
Not really, no.. If the PvP gear had a set price, it would be equal work to all, it could still be expensive and hard to get, but isn't it more fair for everyone?
I think so.
It is not really so strange, you can do 50 raids in Wow or EQ2 and get no gear whatsoever if you are unlucky.
MMOs aren't fair, GW2 is actually trying to be that and we will have to wait and see how that work, but spending many hours for gear have been a standard MMO thing at least since Everquest.
MMOs can't be fair as long as you have random loot and almost every single one of them have that, for the same reason gambling is fun.
How great would it be if all players of a new MMO were maxed out will the best gear in the game after a few weeks? And what would they do after that, the endgame in most MMOs is getting gear.
Originally posted by stayontarget Originally posted by Loke666
Originally posted by Xasapis This is not 2006. There are two variables that are considerably different than the early days of MMO (well, even WoW was fast levelling for its time but still ...)
[*] Levelling today is multiple times faster.
People today know more about MMOs than they used to, thus they can speed up their levelling process.
Nah, I think it is more that there are guides all over the net today than that people know how to level. Heck, when I got Meridian 59 I had a paper map I got in the box and nothing more. When I started with Lineage in the Western beta I was able to download a partial map and there were a few shortg tips for some common situation but nothing more. Today you can get coordinates, maps and apps that tells you exactly what to do and where to go for everything. They give you stats and tells you how to kill all the bosses. Leveling is of course also a lot easier and faster than it was just a few years back as you said.
Ultima Underworld's map design where it would fill in as you go and you could write notes on it as well
~the good old days...
Watching my dad when i was 3 years old, with the floor covered in A4 sheets of paper, each one representing a screen for Treasure Island on the Commodore 64, creating a full map.
What the heck is the problem. It is hard to get good gear, GOOD! That is the way it is supposed to be... I would for make it even harder.
I swear WoW and its easy street gameplay has spoiled people.
The problem is not the effort required, it's that your effort towards reaching a goal is totally random. You may need 800 warfront commendations to get an item and another guy 8000 just because he was unlucky.
Having to choose between:
- something can take me 1 try (if lucky) or 20 tries (if unlucky) or same thing take all people 10 "tries" (rng replaced with token grind) - I choose betting on my luck.
All mmorpg's don't matter business model (f2p , freemium or p2p) will have some things based on luck or on tokens / medallions / etc grind.
Simple as that. Latest trend in mmorpg's in last few years was cutting off all things based on % in favor of increased grind.
To be honest , SOME randomness is ok , if there is nothing luck based - game change into "I need to run isntance A x 40 times , then instance B x 30 times and Instance C x 60 times then I will have enough medallions for my armor set" <--- that's boring and awful...
Comments
If you don't like some randomness / RNG , then a game will be filled with long obnoxious tokens / medallions grind.
Just look at Lotro ,almost all RNG got removed from this game (some players were very vocal about it) and what happened?
Game currently is one of grindest mmorpg's out there...
Overboard RNG is bad ,but imo there is NOTHING wrong with some RNG ,after all luck is part of world as well and if not made in overboard way it can spicy things a bit.
OP: Why is there a problem with this? Do you NEED to have every piece of PvP gear? The rest of the players are playing with the same rules you are... and must make the same choices about where to spend their tokens.
If you're just mad because other players will play more and have better gear than you... then this isn't the right type of game. PvE or PvP... people that play the most are going to have the best stuff. It's a gear treadmill, either way. There is no quick way to get the best stuff.
I will agree that actually getting the best PvP gear is utter boredom right now... unless you figure a way to exploit the system... and then that's not really playing the game, either.
Launching with 3 buggy warzones and an unfinished PvP planet is pretty shoddy work by Bioware.
Hopefully all that is about to change with the PvP updates Bioware announced last night.
Got no issue with that argument at all, although i see most in full Battlemaster gear.
My point was it shouldn't be an issue for most people anyway, as people shouldn't have 20hrs a day to plough into a game in the first place to complain about the gear.
Not wanting to do 50 hours of nothing but warzones for a set of gear isn't laziness. I think I might do 5 accumulated hours of them before my sub runs out or my brain melts.
gear treadmills are just stupid anyways. PvP should be for pvp sake, and not a place of gear supremacy.
An MMO without a gear grind is just a PvP game with a mediocre combat system. The gear grind progessiom is the only reason MMO PvP is appealing.Actually things are a bit worse than that. Set gear don't show their set bonuses before you put them in your inventory, which means that you may end up with a piece of gear that the set don't match your intented way of playing the game.
Now see, right there this is the kind of stuff that happens when you lvl a new game to 50 so fast that you don't even allow the devs to fix things BEFORE you go and ruin your own experience by lvling like that in a brand new MMO. Not to mention missing most of the content that makes the game fun in the first place. People like this should not even be playing an MMO, period!
I wish I could literely travel across the earth seeking everyone who has already reached lvl 50 in this game and walk right up to them and kick them in the nuts as hard as I possibly can with steel toed army boots and run like hell away squeeling with delight!. This would give me great pleasure indeed!
Then to top that off they go to the game forums and bitch and moan and complain how bad said game sucks when it is actually themselves that do all the sucking...
This shit just really pisses me off to the extreme!
I'm about to the point that I don't even care if I get banned from here or not as the only reason I'm even here right now is cause they shut the servers down for maintennance. I will be playing this game and having great fun indeed for a very long time.
In six months time I seriously doubt I will have a character lvl 50 and I guarantee I will still be having a blast! While people like this will still be bitching and moaning and crying about how bad the game sucked...Hopefully they will be doing it in another game ...maybe guildwars 2 or something and stop giving SWToR such bad image because SWToR is the best and most enjoyable game I have played in a very long time. ANd to me the game is nothing like WOW either. I really don't see how one could even begin to compare SWToR to Warcraft other than similar game mechanics that pretty much ALL MMO's must use to allow thier game to even function.
I'm shutting up now so bring on the banhammers as I will be in a galaxy once upon a time far far away....and loving it
What the heck is the problem. It is hard to get good gear, GOOD! That is the way it is supposed to be... I would for make it even harder.
I swear WoW and its easy street gameplay has spoiled people.
My gaming blog
Wrender if you think that reaching level 50 in this game requires any kind of effort, you're deluding yourself.
The only effort required is to announce that you're willing to start a heroic 4man group, since people still are reluctant (or lazy) to start their own teams.
See my previous post i edited out, but it's been quoted.
In summary, i agree 100%, and it pisses me off even more that my taxes go to pay these people to play 20 hours a day, whilst i'm here at work. (yes im alt-tabbing between work and forums lol)
The problem is not the effort required, it's that your effort towards reaching a goal is totally random. You may need 800 warfront commendations to get an item and another guy 8000 just because he was unlucky.
How many /play hours would you estimate though?
Besides the exploits that have now been fixed that the majority used btw. Over 100 hours of play at least? And thats going balls-to-the-wall skipping crap.
There's nothing hard about it, unless you consider Time & RNG as being hard?
Velika: City of Wheels: Among the mortal races, the humans were the only one that never built cities or great empires; a curse laid upon them by their creator, Gidd, forced them to wander as nomads for twenty centuries...
I didnt say there was anything hard about it. It's just foolish to desire to want to is all. The game is brand new so why would you want to lvl like that and ruin your own experience and get burned out on one of the best games to hit the planet in the near future? I have been socializing with people in my guild. grouping up with people just to talk with them about how much they love the game so far. Lvling every class in the game to lvl 10 including both advanced classes on each side across different servers for each one(to get a feel for the different communities and different servers ) and I got to say the community is definetly pretty various on many servers. I thing Rubat Crystal had the best community of all of them as far as helpful, nice, mature and social.
And when I get that done then it will be time to explore every crafting and gathering skill in the game on all my 16 characters.
After that playing the auction house game and learning the economy game. As i attempt to start lvling my characters on the way through thier adventures. By this time there will be no telling what wonders Bioward will have added to the game and I see no end in sight for me playing like this for many many years to come and I Still may n ot have a lvl 50 char by then and hopefully will still be having a blast!
I remember it took me 6 months to level a char to 60 in WoW from the day it released, playing 10 ours a day whilst at Uni, i left soon after.
Then people figured out ways to exploit and grind to 60 in 4 days a few years later, although i believe Blizz boosted XP at early levels by a gigantic amount.
Seems people in SWTOR found the exploits and XP boosts from day one, shame.
Now they sit in Warzones and in the Fleet Station, bored shitless, funny
I skipped nothing and I was 50 before even setting foot to Corelia. I obviously used no bug (implying that the people who reached 50 cheated at this point in time is a bit naive, you should consider that we had quite a head start with the pre-order). I will need to get back from work to check on my /played, but regardless, it won't be an accurate representation since I was/am afking for a considerable amount of time.
I was not the first level 50 in my guild either mind you. The thing is, those who focused on one avatar in my guild are 50 by now or close and only those who dabbled in alts are lagging behind in their 30+.
This is not 2006. There are two variables that are considerably different than the early days of MMO (well, even WoW was fast levelling for its time but still ...)
Levelling today is multiple times faster.
People today know more about MMOs than they used to, thus they can speed up their levelling process.
Nah, I think it is more that there are guides all over the net today than that people know how to level.
Heck, when I got Meridian 59 I had a paper map I got in the box and nothing more. When I started with Lineage in the Western beta I was able to download a partial map and there were a few shortg tips for some common situation but nothing more.
Today you can get coordinates, maps and apps that tells you exactly what to do and where to go for everything. They give you stats and tells you how to kill all the bosses.
Leveling is of course also a lot easier and faster than it was just a few years back as you said.
I would say i have played casually by my standards and not at all over xmas, i unsurprisingly went on a week long drinking bender, i remember i checked my /play at around level 20ish and it was a day. Then again, there would be time learning the ropes and finding out where things are.
But considering each level increases in xp required, it's gotta be over 100 hours play for first character to get to 50.
Now consider most (according to another thread have 4+ alts with that in there 20's and you break 200 hours.
I think people underestimate how much time they have played the game, i played 5hrs last night to gain just under 2 levels, and i got a lot of big quest XP with that....fully rested too.
Miss-post
Ultima Underworld's map design where it would fill in as you go and you could write notes on it as well
~the good old days...
Velika: City of Wheels: Among the mortal races, the humans were the only one that never built cities or great empires; a curse laid upon them by their creator, Gidd, forced them to wander as nomads for twenty centuries...
It is not really so strange, you can do 50 raids in Wow or EQ2 and get no gear whatsoever if you are unlucky.
MMOs aren't fair, GW2 is actually trying to be that and we will have to wait and see how that work, but spending many hours for gear have been a standard MMO thing at least since Everquest.
MMOs can't be fair as long as you have random loot and almost every single one of them have that, for the same reason gambling is fun.
How great would it be if all players of a new MMO were maxed out will the best gear in the game after a few weeks? And what would they do after that, the endgame in most MMOs is getting gear.
Heck, when I got Meridian 59 I had a paper map I got in the box and nothing more. When I started with Lineage in the Western beta I was able to download a partial map and there were a few shortg tips for some common situation but nothing more.
Today you can get coordinates, maps and apps that tells you exactly what to do and where to go for everything. They give you stats and tells you how to kill all the bosses.
Leveling is of course also a lot easier and faster than it was just a few years back as you said.
Ultima Underworld's map design where it would fill in as you go and you could write notes on it as well
~the good old days...
Watching my dad when i was 3 years old, with the floor covered in A4 sheets of paper, each one representing a screen for Treasure Island on the Commodore 64, creating a full map.
Now almost 30 years on, he's playing BF3 heh.
Having to choose between:
- something can take me 1 try (if lucky) or 20 tries (if unlucky) or same thing take all people 10 "tries" (rng replaced with token grind) - I choose betting on my luck.
All mmorpg's don't matter business model (f2p , freemium or p2p) will have some things based on luck or on tokens / medallions / etc grind.
Simple as that. Latest trend in mmorpg's in last few years was cutting off all things based on % in favor of increased grind.
To be honest , SOME randomness is ok , if there is nothing luck based - game change into "I need to run isntance A x 40 times , then instance B x 30 times and Instance C x 60 times then I will have enough medallions for my armor set" <--- that's boring and awful...
Lol, we didn't had that fancy stuff in M59, you were drawing the mapos as you played instead.
The map in the box did cover most of the initial game but had just a few larger villiges on it, and a little terrain.
It was actually really fun but also sometimes annoying, you could be lost for hours.
True. Still I am sick of having in-game GPS pointing EXACTLY where you are, where you need to go and then what to pick ,etc
Seriously I am just waiting when there'll be an option to push a button for "auto-questing".
I think genre need serious change.
LESS quests but make them more complex , interesting ,etc instead and then THROW OUT GPS out of game completly.
imho
There HAS to be something between exact GPS and hand-holding and pointing you in "right" direction arrows and no maps, hints, nothing.