Why do so many people waste their time bean counting and comparing numbers to other games when it's not even their job to give a crap? (yes you forum posters) Just play the games you like and stop this wacky BS. Hey guess what? I play TOR, and WoW, and I'm also gonna play GW2......woo0000
I know what you mean, I'm playing tor and will be playing GW2 as well but it seems on these forums the fanbots from each side of the tor and gw2 forums spend all their time involved in mortal combat to declare the "true" champion of mmo's of the universe. What happened to simply picking up a game and playing it because its fun. I never understood the mission some of these people are on to trash or overhype a game, just play what you want and move on when you are ready for something new.
Why do so many people waste their time bean counting and comparing numbers to other games when it's not even their job to give a crap? (yes you forum posters) Just play the games you like and stop this wacky BS. Hey guess what? I play TOR, and WoW, and I'm also gonna play GW2......woo0000
I know what you mean, I'm playing tor and will be playing GW2 as well but it seems on these forums the fanbots from each side of the tor and gw2 forums spend all their time involved in mortal combat to declare the "true" champion of mmo's of the universe. What happened to simply picking up a game and playing it because its fun. I never understood the mission some of these people are on to trash or overhype a game, just play what you want and move on when you are ready for something new.
Because playing the same game as "everyone else" is as close to cool as some of these folks will ever get.. Let them fight.. The rest of us will just play all the MMO's that interest us..
swtor is doing very good!lunch for lunch !swtor is better then wow was number wise and quality wise!
I don't think so, relative to the western mmo markets size when wow was released it was more succesful in numbers. Actually according some googling the original game sold 240k copies on it's first day and was at the time a record for the most copies sold on day 1 for a PC game (which subsequently was broken by its expansions..and I believe wotlk or cata still holds that title) and that was just a NA release.
"After only a couple weeks online, the news for The Old Republic has gone from good to bad. Following some drama over the weekend, news has come out that after one week on the UK charts the game dropped from #10 to #38. Now the analysts are stepping in and while they see a healthy MMO market, they don’t think that TOR is hurting WoW at all:
Baird Equity estimates that the game has peak concurrent users of roughly 350,000 players.
According to analysts at Cowen and Company the uptake of The Old Republic has had “minimal apparent impact” on Blizzard and Activision’s market-leading World of Warcraft.
Hopefully things pick up and the concurrent player base grows, otherwise the game will become like Warhammer Online in a few months."
edit:
Definition of CONCURRENT
1: operating or occurring at the same time
2a : running parallel b : convergent; specifically : meeting or intersecting in a point
3: acting in conjunction
4: exercised over the same matter or area by two different authorities
WHAT? 350K concurrent players is MORE than WOW... like 40% more.
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To put this into perspective, WOW averaged about 275K concurrent users at it's peak...
See, the thing of it is, "concurrent users" is an industry phrase that means "people logged in at the exact same time." Not subs, not boxes sold....
So all the "doom and gloom" about 350K concurrent players is way off base. It's a very high number... insanely high.
Where is that info from? Considering eve managed like 60k with 350k subscribers (about 20%, ccps own info) 275k seems very weak for 10 million (less then 3%)
To put this into perspective, WOW averaged about 275K concurrent users at it's peak...
See, the thing of it is, "concurrent users" is an industry phrase that means "people logged in at the exact same time." Not subs, not boxes sold....
So all the "doom and gloom" about 350K concurrent players is way off base. It's a very high number... insanely high.
Where is that info from? Considering eve managed like 60k with 350k subscribers (about 20%, ccps own info) 275k seems very weak for 10 million (less then 3%)
275K In the US it should have read... sorry. There was a huge thread about in on the official SWTOR site, and a pro gaming consultant showed up and presented a bunch of figures.
It seems a bit low I think, considering that WOW did have ~3million customers in the USA when it peaked. 350K times 5 would mean that SWTOR had roughly 1.75 million total customers when the news broke, provided that the 20% figure holds true.
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no one cares about WoW. i believe everyone has come to grips with reality and realised that it will take multiple games to bring WoW down. but even then the only ones bringing WoW down as of now is WoW itself.
350k online at the same time is pretty impressive.
Thats not total subscriber numbers btw, thats the amount of people all online at the same time. You can probably quadruple that or more for the amount of subscribers
Also this is just an estimation. There is no basis in fact whatsoever and no stats to back it up.
Quadruple huh?...lol
Meh not at all far fetched. With MMO's it's generally a safe bet that no more than 10-20% of your player base will be on at the same time. Which of course fits in with the 1.5mil-2mil players.
If the 10-20% was to far off the mark often then developers wouldn't use it as a generally guideline :P
When a game first launches people play it a lot; in some of their press releases EA have talked about people's average play time being 5 hours a day. Way more than 10-20%.
Post launch? There will be a percantage for sure but from what Blizzard have been saying lately people are more likely to sub, play new content, unsub then ever before. The days of UO/EQ/AC/DAoC have long gone. These days games that peak at launch and then decline is the norm; we can only speculate atm whether SWTOR will be an exception.
350k online at the same time is pretty impressive.
Thats not total subscriber numbers btw, thats the amount of people all online at the same time. You can probably quadruple that or more for the amount of subscribers
Also this is just an estimation. There is no basis in fact whatsoever and no stats to back it up.
Quadruple huh?...lol
Meh not at all far fetched. With MMO's it's generally a safe bet that no more than 10-20% of your player base will be on at the same time. Which of course fits in with the 1.5mil-2mil players.
If the 10-20% was to far off the mark often then developers wouldn't use it as a generally guideline :P
When a game first launches people play it a lot; in some of their press releases EA have talked about people's average play time being 5 hours a day. Way more than 10-20%.
Post launch? There will be a percantage for sure but from what Blizzard have been saying lately people are more likely to sub, play new content, unsub then ever before. The days of UO/EQ/AC/DAoC have long gone. These days games that peak at launch and then decline is the norm; we can only speculate atm whether SWTOR will be an exception.
No the 10-20% is there and a bit broad because it covers things like holidays, expansion releases, launch, etc.
10% is normal peak percentage, 20% is for launch, expac release, holidays, etc.
And yes......... peak at 20% seems to match up with the numbers we have pretty damn close.......... when the newness wears off it will go down to the standard 10%.........
If you wish to refute me fine, but since your opinion goes against everything we have to go by you really should back it up.
The estimated numbers right now are 1.5mil to 2mil players, concurrent player peak is 350kish, thats about 20% ..........
Do you have different numbers? A different way of doing the math?
Even AoC fell in line with the 20% at launch, then to about 10% after based on the numbers we had.
Im not sure it will ever be like Warhammer. Or be any kind of failed project.
Around here, if it isn't WOW numbers it's fail. Then again, if an MMO hit WoW numbers, the people here would say it was because it was dumbed down for the masses, therefore fail.
There isn't a "right" or "wrong" way to play, if you want to use a screwdriver to put nails into wood, have at it, simply don't complain when the guy next to you with the hammer is doing it much better and easier. - Allein "Graphics are often supplied by Engines that (some) MMORPG's are built in" - Spuffyre
Type it in google it's every where right now, hell just type concurrent MMO players and there are many articles on TOR's 350k.
Let me rephrase the question: official source. Just because a website has taken a guess that SWTOR has 350k concurrent subscribers doesn't make it true.
Best I can do is offer up where the info is coming from, the source is an independant research firm "seemingly"...
A guess Maybe even a reaonable guess. Here is how it might be done just to show the types of guesses that need to be made (unless they have access to EA server load data).
EA have said they have 1M+ registered players and based on the fact that there are c. 25% more US servers we can 'guess' that there are about 450k+ in the EU and 550k+ in the US.
EA have also posted an average play time of 5+ hours a gay - which is a high number but this is early days in the games launch/
Now when are people playing? Some will play in the afternoon, niddle of the night due to shifts etc. Lets say 20% (GUESS) are non-peak. For the peak players lets say 'younger folk' play early say 4pm to 9pm 'older folks' play later 7pm to 12pm? Now in reality play will be staggered and won't play 5 hours straight etc. but assume two core groups that split 50/50.
In the US that would be roughly 100k non-peak, 225k earliers and 225k lates.
Now the 2 hour overlap between earlies and lates in the US would bump up the concurrent number but the 4 hour time difference between east and west coast will spread out the numbers. Lets assume the spread cancels out the overlap and that 225k is the concurrent US number.
Doing the same in EU gives 90k non-peak and 180k earlies and 180k lates,
There is an overlap between the 'EU lates' of about 2 hours. 10-12 GMT is 2-4 EST, 4-6 CST and 6-8 PST. and at this point I will say that I have played on US servers whilst living in the EU and on EU servers whilst living in the US. And the lesson is: you don;t want to do it! You can stretch the 2 hours sometimes but it's a good average number to use - remember that 10-12 GMT is 11-01 GMT+1 as well.
2 hour overlap is 40% of the 5 hour average play time. 40% of 180k is 76k.
Add 225k to 76k and we have a concurrent guess of 301k+.
I could easily tweak the numbers to get an answer of 350k but these are the types of guesses you need to make because all we have are 1M+ and 5+ hour average play time and the number of servers in the US and EU.
Im not sure it will ever be like Warhammer. Or be any kind of failed project.
Around here, if it isn't WOW numbers it's fail. Then again, if an MMO hit WoW nombers, the people here would say it was because it was dumbed down for the masses, therefore fail.
Aye.. Lose , lose.. Not worth the argument.. I also lol'd at your sig..
You have to remember though, even if this game suddenly had 5-6 MILLION subscribers and players, people would STILL complain and hate and say its not putting a dent in WoW.
Originally posted by Dirkzen You have to remember though, even if this game suddenly had 5-6 MILLION subscribers and players, people would STILL complain and hate and say its not putting a dent in WoW. You can't win an argument with trolls.
Bioware wasn't foolish enough to say that they were going to dethrone WoW. I'm not sure why people expect this or want this. Going further along this path of thinking, the people who play SWToR may not be the people who play WoW. They could be former WoW players who stopped playing WoW years ago, or people who never played WoW at all. They may not be any correlation or causation involved when you look at WoW's sub numbers and SWToR's sub numbers.
A few people I know stopped playing WoW some time ago. A few have picked up SWToR and a couple haven't picked up anything in particular. A few people I know are still playing WoW, and they are all playing SWToR. I don't think those people are ever going to stop playing WoW. The third set of people I know playing SWToR did not ever play WoW. The final, and smallest set of people are the ones who are just playing WoW. Make of that what you will.
I can not remember winning or losing a single debate on the internet.
Comments
Let it grow, let it grow, let it grow.
I know what you mean, I'm playing tor and will be playing GW2 as well but it seems on these forums the fanbots from each side of the tor and gw2 forums spend all their time involved in mortal combat to declare the "true" champion of mmo's of the universe. What happened to simply picking up a game and playing it because its fun. I never understood the mission some of these people are on to trash or overhype a game, just play what you want and move on when you are ready for something new.
Because playing the same game as "everyone else" is as close to cool as some of these folks will ever get.. Let them fight.. The rest of us will just play all the MMO's that interest us..
I don't think so, relative to the western mmo markets size when wow was released it was more succesful in numbers. Actually according some googling the original game sold 240k copies on it's first day and was at the time a record for the most copies sold on day 1 for a PC game (which subsequently was broken by its expansions..and I believe wotlk or cata still holds that title) and that was just a NA release.
WHAT? 350K concurrent players is MORE than WOW... like 40% more.
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WHY DOES EVERYONE CARE SO MUCH.
Just play the games you enjoy!
To put this into perspective, WOW averaged about 275K concurrent users at it's peak...
See, the thing of it is, "concurrent users" is an industry phrase that means "people logged in at the exact same time." Not subs, not boxes sold....
So all the "doom and gloom" about 350K concurrent players is way off base. It's a very high number... insanely high.
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Because its Star Wars... the IP of all IPs ....
I even have a star wars tattoo
*hides*
Where is that info from? Considering eve managed like 60k with 350k subscribers (about 20%, ccps own info) 275k seems very weak for 10 million (less then 3%)
275K In the US it should have read... sorry. There was a huge thread about in on the official SWTOR site, and a pro gaming consultant showed up and presented a bunch of figures.
It seems a bit low I think, considering that WOW did have ~3million customers in the USA when it peaked. 350K times 5 would mean that SWTOR had roughly 1.75 million total customers when the news broke, provided that the 20% figure holds true.
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no one cares about WoW. i believe everyone has come to grips with reality and realised that it will take multiple games to bring WoW down. but even then the only ones bringing WoW down as of now is WoW itself.
So you're excited that SWToR is better quality wise than a game launched in 2004? It shouldn't be something to brag about it should be expected.
When a game first launches people play it a lot; in some of their press releases EA have talked about people's average play time being 5 hours a day. Way more than 10-20%.
Post launch? There will be a percantage for sure but from what Blizzard have been saying lately people are more likely to sub, play new content, unsub then ever before. The days of UO/EQ/AC/DAoC have long gone. These days games that peak at launch and then decline is the norm; we can only speculate atm whether SWTOR will be an exception.
No the 10-20% is there and a bit broad because it covers things like holidays, expansion releases, launch, etc.
10% is normal peak percentage, 20% is for launch, expac release, holidays, etc.
And yes......... peak at 20% seems to match up with the numbers we have pretty damn close.......... when the newness wears off it will go down to the standard 10%.........
If you wish to refute me fine, but since your opinion goes against everything we have to go by you really should back it up.
The estimated numbers right now are 1.5mil to 2mil players, concurrent player peak is 350kish, thats about 20% ..........
Do you have different numbers? A different way of doing the math?
Even AoC fell in line with the 20% at launch, then to about 10% after based on the numbers we had.
Lol the game is released only to like, NA and Europe, it hasn't even touched the Asian market yet.
How much WoW could a WoWhater hate, if a WoWhater could hate WoW?
As much WoW as a WoWhater would, if a WoWhater could hate WoW.
Around here, if it isn't WOW numbers it's fail. Then again, if an MMO hit WoW numbers, the people here would say it was because it was dumbed down for the masses, therefore fail.
There isn't a "right" or "wrong" way to play, if you want to use a screwdriver to put nails into wood, have at it, simply don't complain when the guy next to you with the hammer is doing it much better and easier. - Allein
"Graphics are often supplied by Engines that (some) MMORPG's are built in" - Spuffyre
A guess
Maybe even a reaonable guess. Here is how it might be done just to show the types of guesses that need to be made (unless they have access to EA server load data).
EA have said they have 1M+ registered players and based on the fact that there are c. 25% more US servers we can 'guess' that there are about 450k+ in the EU and 550k+ in the US.
EA have also posted an average play time of 5+ hours a gay - which is a high number but this is early days in the games launch/
Now when are people playing? Some will play in the afternoon, niddle of the night due to shifts etc. Lets say 20% (GUESS) are non-peak. For the peak players lets say 'younger folk' play early say 4pm to 9pm 'older folks' play later 7pm to 12pm? Now in reality play will be staggered and won't play 5 hours straight etc. but assume two core groups that split 50/50.
In the US that would be roughly 100k non-peak, 225k earliers and 225k lates.
Now the 2 hour overlap between earlies and lates in the US would bump up the concurrent number but the 4 hour time difference between east and west coast will spread out the numbers. Lets assume the spread cancels out the overlap and that 225k is the concurrent US number.
Doing the same in EU gives 90k non-peak and 180k earlies and 180k lates,
There is an overlap between the 'EU lates' of about 2 hours. 10-12 GMT is 2-4 EST, 4-6 CST and 6-8 PST. and at this point I will say that I have played on US servers whilst living in the EU and on EU servers whilst living in the US. And the lesson is: you don;t want to do it! You can stretch the 2 hours sometimes but it's a good average number to use - remember that 10-12 GMT is 11-01 GMT+1 as well.
2 hour overlap is 40% of the 5 hour average play time. 40% of 180k is 76k.
Add 225k to 76k and we have a concurrent guess of 301k+.
I could easily tweak the numbers to get an answer of 350k but these are the types of guesses you need to make because all we have are 1M+ and 5+ hour average play time and the number of servers in the US and EU.
Aye.. Lose , lose.. Not worth the argument.. I also lol'd at your sig..
You have to remember though, even if this game suddenly had 5-6 MILLION subscribers and players, people would STILL complain and hate and say its not putting a dent in WoW.
You can't win an argument with trolls.
Bioware wasn't foolish enough to say that they were going to dethrone WoW. I'm not sure why people expect this or want this. Going further along this path of thinking, the people who play SWToR may not be the people who play WoW. They could be former WoW players who stopped playing WoW years ago, or people who never played WoW at all. They may not be any correlation or causation involved when you look at WoW's sub numbers and SWToR's sub numbers.
A few people I know stopped playing WoW some time ago. A few have picked up SWToR and a couple haven't picked up anything in particular. A few people I know are still playing WoW, and they are all playing SWToR. I don't think those people are ever going to stop playing WoW. The third set of people I know playing SWToR did not ever play WoW. The final, and smallest set of people are the ones who are just playing WoW. Make of that what you will.
I can not remember winning or losing a single debate on the internet.