The trend is moving from Massive to "Moderately Populated Channels", Multiplayer to "Small Group/Solo Instances", Online to "Undergoing Unscheduled Maintenance", and then dropping the "RPG" part altogether.
I'm not the biggest fan of this trend.
Yeah I feel it's all a matter of convenience for the host now, to split up the game and section people off for the least hassle on the servers (in some cases, different servers and instanced content), yet they still want to call them MMORPGS.
By the way, your avatar hit me like a freight train of nostalgia.
As in all RPGs, players assume the role of a character (often in a fantasy world) and take control over many of that character's actions. MMORPGs are distinguished from single-player or small multi-player RPGs by the number of players, and by the game's persistent world (usually hosted by the game's publisher), which continues to exist and evolve while the player is offline and away from the game.
Originally posted by Calerxes ,,, there are plentry of other things to fill your time rather than bemoaning the demise of the genre.
yada yada yada
You know there was a time when MASSIVE meant something more than 10 people in a group or 20 v 20 instanced PVP.
In games like Ultima and Shadowbane there'd be literally hundreds upwards to a thousand or so actual players in each other's territory or even player made cities playing the game together.
Sure this caused people with lower end computers, crappy connections, this or that to have a less than stellar experience.
I don't even thing most games allow more than 40 people in the same instance of a zone together any more, and really it came about to take some stress off of the technology. That's understandable.
But it has truly taken the term massive out of the "MMO".
Just because 10,000 people are on the same server you'll probably see about 4% of that population in any given game session.
We're 8 years removed from when these "fixes" became the norm.
Technology has grown.
There's a good section of us who have been patient with the developers in this genre. Except they don't take advantage of the new technology. They keep it simple because they know the majority of MMO players now are noobs who don't know what the word "massive" means.
Hell seeing people describe large scale pvp as having more than 6 people on either side is just mind numbingly stupid to me.
I used to play MMOs like you, but then I took an arrow to the knee.
WoW is not an MMO anymore. SWTOR never was. Guild Wars admits its not an MMO, mad props for the truth.
As for forced grouping, since WoW brought in all these casuals and people who never played an MMO before and aside from SWTOR never played one aside from WoW you have to force grouping, because people refuse to do it. Which is fine, but why not play srpg or corpg and stop shoving the mmo genre slowly towards corpg? GW was corpg in 2005 and WoW is slowly pushing instancing and phasing over to the GW model. SWTOR is doing it too and they are even doing the story and voice acting thing. And heros and henchman diablo type crap is in GW and apparently to some degree in SW.
Why would people group when they can just have henchman and shit doing it?
Luckily we are getting people who want to push the genre back to what it was meant to be about. Soon enough diablo 3 or diablo 4 will merge with GW and SWTOR and WoW as a new genre and we can get back to the goal of MMOs.
I guess we could just give up to the tyranny of the masses and make a name specifically for real MMOs and then just leave this debate behind. Once 99% of the population never even played a real MMO its probably not reasonable to get them to understand what MMO was supposed to mean.
,,, there are plentry of other things to fill your time rather than bemoaning the demise of the genre.
yada yada yada
You know there was a time when MASSIVE meant something more than 10 people in a group or 20 v 20 instanced PVP.
In games like Ultima and Shadowbane there'd be literally hundreds upwards to a thousand or so actual players in each other's territory or even player made cities playing the game together.
Sure this caused people with lower end computers, crappy connections, this or that to have a less than stellar experience.
I don't even thing most games allow more than 40 people in the same instance of a zone together any more, and really it came about to take some stress off of the technology. That's understandable.
But it has truly taken the term massive out of the "MMO".
Just because 10,000 people are on the same server you'll probably see about 4% of that population in any given game session.
We're 8 years removed from when these "fixes" became the norm.
Technology has grown.
There's a good section of us who have been patient with the developers in this genre. Except they don't take advantage of the new technology. They keep it simple because they know the majority of MMO players now are noobs who don't know what the word "massive" means.
Hell seeing people describe large scale pvp as having more than 6 people on either side is just mind numbingly stupid to me.
There's always a desire to just throw a ton of people in the same area in an MMORPG and just say "have at it." After all, it's a MASSIVELY multiplayer game right?
But I think you really have to question whether or not this is a good idea. Is it fun for the individual to participate in a truly massive event? Personally, I don't think it is...at least not for me. WAR and Darkfall had massive fights that would happen in the open world, but I actually found them quite dull. They mostly consist of two sides staring at each other and being afraid to commit, both side trying to "skirmish" to get an advantage. Then eventually the fight will happen, will be fairly short, and then will be over.
it's fun maybe once or twice, but it gets old fast. After a while you're just thinking "okay get on with it..."
To me, massive doesn't necessarily mean that you have to have a ton of players in one area at once. I look at it more along the lines that all the players in the world share something that feels tangible, they all have a sense of community and culture. Just like how a real country works.
In EQ for example, you really didn't do much on a "massive" scale. Most of the time you would just be in fairly small groups. But the game still felt massive. You really depended on other players for certain things all the time like ports and stuff, and your reputation was VERY important. If you got a bad rep, it would be hard to find a group. The game felt massive because, even though you never shared the same space with a bunch of folks at once, it required players to act as a society to succeed.
Nowadays though, the only massive thing I can find in modern themeparks is the auction house. There is no sense of society in WoW...you can be a complete prick and never be punished for it. And with things like phasing and excessive zone sharding, you never feel like you're part of a world with tons of other people in it.
WoW is still an MMOrpg ,but almost everything Blizz did with this game since Vanilla - like prioritizing instance gameplay, making Arenas , making cross-server LFG tools with auto-teleportation, phasing , redesinging game so players spent 90% in instances ,etc - all of this imho is pushing WoW outside of MMOrpg sphere.
It is more like WOW is redefining what MMORPG means. Put it this way, do you really think at some point, if WOW goes down this road further (and it is, they just put in LFR, and they will have instance group quest called scenarios in the next expansion), the industry, and the market will refer to it as something else?
All this discussion is just moot. No one is going to change language use just because of some discussions on forums.
yes, if the abuse of the term MMO keeps going the way its going, there definitely will be new terminology made. MMO will just become totally meaningless (like it pretty much already is) and there will be a NEW set of words or acronyms that actually MEAN something. anybody using the old terms will get drawn into needless verbiage (like is happening now) that centers around trying to find out what the hell the other person is talking about.
thats the way language works. the whole point of language is to clearly get across ideas, so when a word gets too confusing, other words are created and migrated to.
yes languages change. especially ones that refer to very dynamic subjects. such as the game industry.
things in the real world don't necessarily have much overlap with things in nariusworld.
Originally posted by Creslin321 Originally posted by PukeBucket
Originally posted by Calerxes ,,, there are plentry of other things to fill your time rather than bemoaning the demise of the genre.
yada yada yada You know there was a time when MASSIVE meant something more than 10 people in a group or 20 v 20 instanced PVP. In games like Ultima and Shadowbane there'd be literally hundreds upwards to a thousand or so actual players in each other's territory or even player made cities playing the game together. Sure this caused people with lower end computers, crappy connections, this or that to have a less than stellar experience. I don't even thing most games allow more than 40 people in the same instance of a zone together any more, and really it came about to take some stress off of the technology. That's understandable. But it has truly taken the term massive out of the "MMO". Just because 10,000 people are on the same server you'll probably see about 4% of that population in any given game session. We're 8 years removed from when these "fixes" became the norm. Technology has grown. There's a good section of us who have been patient with the developers in this genre. Except they don't take advantage of the new technology. They keep it simple because they know the majority of MMO players now are noobs who don't know what the word "massive" means. Hell seeing people describe large scale pvp as having more than 6 people on either side is just mind numbingly stupid to me. There's always a desire to just throw a ton of people in the same area in an MMORPG and just say "have at it." After all, it's a MASSIVELY multiplayer game right? But I think you really have to question whether or not this is a good idea. Is it fun for the individual to participate in a truly massive event? Personally, I don't think it is...at least not for me. WAR and Darkfall had massive fights that would happen in the open world, but I actually found them quite dull. They mostly consist of two sides staring at each other and being afraid to commit, both side trying to "skirmish" to get an advantage. Then eventually the fight will happen, will be fairly short, and then will be over. it's fun maybe once or twice, but it gets old fast. After a while you're just thinking "okay get on with it..." To me, massive doesn't necessarily mean that you have to have a ton of players in one area at once. I look at it more along the lines that all the players in the world share something that feels tangible, they all have a sense of community and culture. Just like how a real country works. In EQ for example, you really didn't do much on a "massive" scale. Most of the time you would just be in fairly small groups. But the game still felt massive. You really depended on other players for certain things all the time like ports and stuff, and your reputation was VERY important. If you got a bad rep, it would be hard to find a group. The game felt massive because, even though you never shared the same space with a bunch of folks at once, it required players to act as a society to succeed. Nowadays though, the only massive thing I can find in modern themeparks is the auction house. There is no sense of society in WoW...you can be a complete prick and never be punished for it. And with things like phasing and excessive zone sharding, you never feel like you're part of a world with tons of other people in it.
That's a really shallow and pedantic way to look at it at first, but thanks for saying what I said and douching it up towards the end.
And you obviously never tried to wake the Sleeper in EQ.
So yeah, massive multiplayer online role playing games should have a massive amount of players doing things together.
I used to play MMOs like you, but then I took an arrow to the knee.
,,, there are plentry of other things to fill your time rather than bemoaning the demise of the genre.
yada yada yada
You know there was a time when MASSIVE meant something more than 10 people in a group or 20 v 20 instanced PVP.
In games like Ultima and Shadowbane there'd be literally hundreds upwards to a thousand or so actual players in each other's territory or even player made cities playing the game together.
Sure this caused people with lower end computers, crappy connections, this or that to have a less than stellar experience.
I don't even thing most games allow more than 40 people in the same instance of a zone together any more, and really it came about to take some stress off of the technology. That's understandable.
But it has truly taken the term massive out of the "MMO".
Just because 10,000 people are on the same server you'll probably see about 4% of that population in any given game session.
We're 8 years removed from when these "fixes" became the norm.
Technology has grown.
There's a good section of us who have been patient with the developers in this genre. Except they don't take advantage of the new technology. They keep it simple because they know the majority of MMO players now are noobs who don't know what the word "massive" means.
Hell seeing people describe large scale pvp as having more than 6 people on either side is just mind numbingly stupid to me.
There's always a desire to just throw a ton of people in the same area in an MMORPG and just say "have at it." After all, it's a MASSIVELY multiplayer game right?
But I think you really have to question whether or not this is a good idea. Is it fun for the individual to participate in a truly massive event? Personally, I don't think it is...at least not for me. WAR and Darkfall had massive fights that would happen in the open world, but I actually found them quite dull. They mostly consist of two sides staring at each other and being afraid to commit, both side trying to "skirmish" to get an advantage. Then eventually the fight will happen, will be fairly short, and then will be over.
it's fun maybe once or twice, but it gets old fast. After a while you're just thinking "okay get on with it..."
To me, massive doesn't necessarily mean that you have to have a ton of players in one area at once. I look at it more along the lines that all the players in the world share something that feels tangible, they all have a sense of community and culture. Just like how a real country works.
In EQ for example, you really didn't do much on a "massive" scale. Most of the time you would just be in fairly small groups. But the game still felt massive. You really depended on other players for certain things all the time like ports and stuff, and your reputation was VERY important. If you got a bad rep, it would be hard to find a group. The game felt massive because, even though you never shared the same space with a bunch of folks at once, it required players to act as a society to succeed.
Nowadays though, the only massive thing I can find in modern themeparks is the auction house. There is no sense of society in WoW...you can be a complete prick and never be punished for it. And with things like phasing and excessive zone sharding, you never feel like you're part of a world with tons of other people in it.
That's a really shallow and pedantic way to look at it at first, but thanks for saying what I said and douching it up towards the end.
And you obviously never tried to wake the Sleeper in EQ.
So yeah, massive multiplayer online role playing games should have a massive amount of players doing things together.
LOL "douching it up?" I have no clue what you're talking about.
The only thing I can gather from this is that I disagreed with your ideal of an MMORPG and you got mad about it .
The trend is moving from Massive to "Moderately Populated Channels", Multiplayer to "Small Group/Solo Instances", Online to "Undergoing Unscheduled Maintenance", and then dropping the "RPG" part altogether.
I'm not the biggest fan of this trend.
Yeah I feel it's all a matter of convenience for the host now, to split up the game and section people off for the least hassle on the servers (in some cases, different servers and instanced content), yet they still want to call them MMORPGS.
By the way, your avatar hit me like a freight train of nostalgia.
Final Fantasy. My very first addiction.
"Enter a whole new realm of challenge and adventure."
Enter a whole new realm of challenge and adventure.
In Dark Age of Camelot we used to have raids the size of our entire server to kill the dragon. THAT is how us real men who played real MMOs played.
Casuals vs. Hardcores problems? Raid lockout timers? Best In Slot Elitist Jerks? Raiding taken as a job? Balance raid bosses for X amount of players? There was no such thing and was completely unheard of in Dark Age of Camelot. Furthermore, no one even CARED about those things. That is because everyone raided together on a massive scale and had FUN. Thank God for World of Warcraft, right? The WoW Santa brought us so many MMO innovations such as these, and more.
RvR had its problems in DAoC like for me I thought RvR was being TOO massive and portal keeps kept each realm completely out of each other's realms when I completely thought realms could invade each other to begin with. But given how great the game was as one of the first MMORPGs this is a major accomplishment that didn't use instancing. DAoC should be looked at as a game who got first dibs on what an MMORPG should be, as should EverQuest and Meridian 59 be games that should be looked to for what an MMORPG is.
I hate EVE and I don't even find Dark Age of Camelot perfect and that's my favorite MMORPG of all time (in its original 1.0 version form) but they deserve respect for actually having no instancing. You may look down upon that as backwards technology because they were older games but I'm sorry you're just a WoW fanboy just like I'm a DAoC fanboy and we're going to agree to disagree now. However, those games and others not mentioned are treated with great disrespect by the WoW community. I think anyone arguing against this deserve the same disrespect for their disregard for MMO history and can go stuff yourself with chocolates and sulk about that if you want to. Especially when all you know about is Warhammer Online and then make light of it like massive RvR is really nothing at all. You're just asking for RvR fanboys to get upset. So you got it. You happy?
This all just amounts to a Call of Duty vs. Duke Nukem/id software shooters/Serious Sam/other old school shooters fanboy fight but we all know that in the end the old school shooters win for being what created Call of Duty anyway. Neither is better than the other but respect where it's deserved for all our sakes. Thanks.
Its kind of like pornography - you know it when you see it. There are lots of lines to be drawn, lots of grey areas etc but the basics for me start with a very simple concept.
Thousands of players that interact with each other in a single world. Without this you can not have an MMO. Just because you have this does not guarentee that it is an MMO.
The 2nd item on the list for me is that in said world you have a chance to randomly meet up with anyone of the thousands of players at any given time. If there is "locked" content - that content only makes up a small portion of the game and only involves a small percentage of the advancement process. Locked content are instances in which only a select few people can enter and they have that instance all to themselves without any outside interference.
The 3rd item which is an outgrowth of the 2nd item on the list is that the actions of the other players in the world can have an impact on your game experience and you can have an impact on their experience and this impact is not restricted to locked instances.
Under these guidelines games like GW1, starcraft and Diablo are not MMO's even though there are thousands of people with the potential to interact with each other. I have never played DDO but from what I gather DDO would also not be an MMO.
This does not mean they are not good games and they dont cross the line from a simple multiplayer game to something that lies between standard multiplayer and MMO.
I think where this site screws up is that they treat too many games exactly the same and mix and mash them all together. Everyone has their own set of tastes and many people have tastes that cross various boundaries. It would still be better to define some boundaries and let those whose taste crosses those boundaries to go to each section.
For instance free to play should be seperate from sub based. Web based should be seperate from standard client/server based. Games that fall into that grey area should be seperate from games which are solidly one thing or another. Simplify the lists, seperate the content and the site becomes usefull again.
Skyrim and then in mmo sandbox setting totally open freeroaming world to explore no restrictions.
Thats a mmorpg to me time sink items should not be importend. Play the game immerse yourself in a gameworld where time has no meaning you plan a group of players to go on adventure if this take days who cares its an ADVENTURE afterwards you can tell the storys you've experienced.
Nowadays people rush through game dont bother with others it must all be easy and fast and get all your precious gear easy if not free or just buy in shop lol.
I want a real mmorpg not some goddamn speedtrip themepark rush:P
Hope to build full AMD system RYZEN/VEGA/AM4!!!
MB:Asus V De Luxe z77 CPU:Intell Icore7 3770k GPU: AMD Fury X(waiting for BIG VEGA 10 or 11 HBM2?(bit unclear now)) MEMORY:Corsair PLAT.DDR3 1866MHZ 16GB PSU:Corsair AX1200i OS:Windows 10 64bit
A real MMORPG is a game developed by an enthusiast who has the notion to see that the game is true. Not a shade of a fake mmo, built by some CEO for his company profile.
Ie: Warhammer was built because EA's ceo wanted to make WoW bucks. Not develope an immursive world.
"No they are not charity. That is where the whales come in. (I play for free. Whales pays.) Devs get a business. That is how it works."
That red part is not true at all. Because that would mean that Skyrim isn't a rpg
Victory is predominantly gained through character attributes (stats/gear/perks) in Skyrim.
Just like how we call Planetside a MMOFPS because victory is predominantly gained through twitch skill.
I disagree. I completed most of my dungeons as a low level. I had to maintain my magic of course, but my combat aiming was very important part of my success.
I disagree. I completed most of my dungeons as a low level. I had to maintain my magic of course, but my combat aiming was very important part of my success.
Dungeons were scaled to your level.
So you're calling Skyrim a FPS? Again, nobody does that because the core gameplay is predominantly RPG.
"What is truly revealing is his implication that believing something to be true is the same as it being true. [continue]" -John Oliver
Comments
Yeah I feel it's all a matter of convenience for the host now, to split up the game and section people off for the least hassle on the servers (in some cases, different servers and instanced content), yet they still want to call them MMORPGS.
By the way, your avatar hit me like a freight train of nostalgia.
Massively multiplayer online role-playing game (MMORPG) is a genre of role-playing video games in which a very large number of players interact with one another within a virtual game world.
As in all RPGs, players assume the role of a character (often in a fantasy world) and take control over many of that character's actions. MMORPGs are distinguished from single-player or small multi-player RPGs by the number of players, and by the game's persistent world (usually hosted by the game's publisher), which continues to exist and evolve while the player is offline and away from the game.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mmorpg
yada yada yada
You know there was a time when MASSIVE meant something more than 10 people in a group or 20 v 20 instanced PVP.
In games like Ultima and Shadowbane there'd be literally hundreds upwards to a thousand or so actual players in each other's territory or even player made cities playing the game together.
Sure this caused people with lower end computers, crappy connections, this or that to have a less than stellar experience.
I don't even thing most games allow more than 40 people in the same instance of a zone together any more, and really it came about to take some stress off of the technology. That's understandable.
But it has truly taken the term massive out of the "MMO".
Just because 10,000 people are on the same server you'll probably see about 4% of that population in any given game session.
We're 8 years removed from when these "fixes" became the norm.
Technology has grown.
There's a good section of us who have been patient with the developers in this genre. Except they don't take advantage of the new technology. They keep it simple because they know the majority of MMO players now are noobs who don't know what the word "massive" means.
Hell seeing people describe large scale pvp as having more than 6 people on either side is just mind numbingly stupid to me.
I used to play MMOs like you, but then I took an arrow to the knee.
WoW is not an MMO anymore. SWTOR never was. Guild Wars admits its not an MMO, mad props for the truth.
As for forced grouping, since WoW brought in all these casuals and people who never played an MMO before and aside from SWTOR never played one aside from WoW you have to force grouping, because people refuse to do it. Which is fine, but why not play srpg or corpg and stop shoving the mmo genre slowly towards corpg? GW was corpg in 2005 and WoW is slowly pushing instancing and phasing over to the GW model. SWTOR is doing it too and they are even doing the story and voice acting thing. And heros and henchman diablo type crap is in GW and apparently to some degree in SW.
Why would people group when they can just have henchman and shit doing it?
Luckily we are getting people who want to push the genre back to what it was meant to be about. Soon enough diablo 3 or diablo 4 will merge with GW and SWTOR and WoW as a new genre and we can get back to the goal of MMOs.
I guess we could just give up to the tyranny of the masses and make a name specifically for real MMOs and then just leave this debate behind. Once 99% of the population never even played a real MMO its probably not reasonable to get them to understand what MMO was supposed to mean.
There's always a desire to just throw a ton of people in the same area in an MMORPG and just say "have at it." After all, it's a MASSIVELY multiplayer game right?
But I think you really have to question whether or not this is a good idea. Is it fun for the individual to participate in a truly massive event? Personally, I don't think it is...at least not for me. WAR and Darkfall had massive fights that would happen in the open world, but I actually found them quite dull. They mostly consist of two sides staring at each other and being afraid to commit, both side trying to "skirmish" to get an advantage. Then eventually the fight will happen, will be fairly short, and then will be over.
it's fun maybe once or twice, but it gets old fast. After a while you're just thinking "okay get on with it..."
To me, massive doesn't necessarily mean that you have to have a ton of players in one area at once. I look at it more along the lines that all the players in the world share something that feels tangible, they all have a sense of community and culture. Just like how a real country works.
In EQ for example, you really didn't do much on a "massive" scale. Most of the time you would just be in fairly small groups. But the game still felt massive. You really depended on other players for certain things all the time like ports and stuff, and your reputation was VERY important. If you got a bad rep, it would be hard to find a group. The game felt massive because, even though you never shared the same space with a bunch of folks at once, it required players to act as a society to succeed.
Nowadays though, the only massive thing I can find in modern themeparks is the auction house. There is no sense of society in WoW...you can be a complete prick and never be punished for it. And with things like phasing and excessive zone sharding, you never feel like you're part of a world with tons of other people in it.
Are you team Azeroth, team Tyria, or team Jacob?
yes, if the abuse of the term MMO keeps going the way its going, there definitely will be new terminology made. MMO will just become totally meaningless (like it pretty much already is) and there will be a NEW set of words or acronyms that actually MEAN something. anybody using the old terms will get drawn into needless verbiage (like is happening now) that centers around trying to find out what the hell the other person is talking about.
thats the way language works. the whole point of language is to clearly get across ideas, so when a word gets too confusing, other words are created and migrated to.
yes languages change. especially ones that refer to very dynamic subjects. such as the game industry.
things in the real world don't necessarily have much overlap with things in nariusworld.
---------------------------
Corpus Callosum
---------------------------
yada yada yada
You know there was a time when MASSIVE meant something more than 10 people in a group or 20 v 20 instanced PVP.
In games like Ultima and Shadowbane there'd be literally hundreds upwards to a thousand or so actual players in each other's territory or even player made cities playing the game together.
Sure this caused people with lower end computers, crappy connections, this or that to have a less than stellar experience.
I don't even thing most games allow more than 40 people in the same instance of a zone together any more, and really it came about to take some stress off of the technology. That's understandable.
But it has truly taken the term massive out of the "MMO".
Just because 10,000 people are on the same server you'll probably see about 4% of that population in any given game session.
We're 8 years removed from when these "fixes" became the norm.
Technology has grown.
There's a good section of us who have been patient with the developers in this genre. Except they don't take advantage of the new technology. They keep it simple because they know the majority of MMO players now are noobs who don't know what the word "massive" means.
Hell seeing people describe large scale pvp as having more than 6 people on either side is just mind numbingly stupid to me.
There's always a desire to just throw a ton of people in the same area in an MMORPG and just say "have at it." After all, it's a MASSIVELY multiplayer game right?
But I think you really have to question whether or not this is a good idea. Is it fun for the individual to participate in a truly massive event? Personally, I don't think it is...at least not for me. WAR and Darkfall had massive fights that would happen in the open world, but I actually found them quite dull. They mostly consist of two sides staring at each other and being afraid to commit, both side trying to "skirmish" to get an advantage. Then eventually the fight will happen, will be fairly short, and then will be over.
it's fun maybe once or twice, but it gets old fast. After a while you're just thinking "okay get on with it..."
To me, massive doesn't necessarily mean that you have to have a ton of players in one area at once. I look at it more along the lines that all the players in the world share something that feels tangible, they all have a sense of community and culture. Just like how a real country works.
In EQ for example, you really didn't do much on a "massive" scale. Most of the time you would just be in fairly small groups. But the game still felt massive. You really depended on other players for certain things all the time like ports and stuff, and your reputation was VERY important. If you got a bad rep, it would be hard to find a group. The game felt massive because, even though you never shared the same space with a bunch of folks at once, it required players to act as a society to succeed.
Nowadays though, the only massive thing I can find in modern themeparks is the auction house. There is no sense of society in WoW...you can be a complete prick and never be punished for it. And with things like phasing and excessive zone sharding, you never feel like you're part of a world with tons of other people in it.
That's a really shallow and pedantic way to look at it at first, but thanks for saying what I said and douching it up towards the end.
And you obviously never tried to wake the Sleeper in EQ.
So yeah, massive multiplayer online role playing games should have a massive amount of players doing things together.
I used to play MMOs like you, but then I took an arrow to the knee.
LOL "douching it up?" I have no clue what you're talking about.
The only thing I can gather from this is that I disagreed with your ideal of an MMORPG and you got mad about it
.
Are you team Azeroth, team Tyria, or team Jacob?
Final Fantasy. My very first addiction.
"Enter a whole new realm of challenge and adventure."
Enter a whole new realm of challenge and adventure.
In Dark Age of Camelot we used to have raids the size of our entire server to kill the dragon. THAT is how us real men who played real MMOs played.
Casuals vs. Hardcores problems? Raid lockout timers? Best In Slot Elitist Jerks? Raiding taken as a job? Balance raid bosses for X amount of players? There was no such thing and was completely unheard of in Dark Age of Camelot. Furthermore, no one even CARED about those things. That is because everyone raided together on a massive scale and had FUN. Thank God for World of Warcraft, right? The WoW Santa brought us so many MMO innovations such as these, and more.
RvR had its problems in DAoC like for me I thought RvR was being TOO massive and portal keeps kept each realm completely out of each other's realms when I completely thought realms could invade each other to begin with. But given how great the game was as one of the first MMORPGs this is a major accomplishment that didn't use instancing. DAoC should be looked at as a game who got first dibs on what an MMORPG should be, as should EverQuest and Meridian 59 be games that should be looked to for what an MMORPG is.
I hate EVE and I don't even find Dark Age of Camelot perfect and that's my favorite MMORPG of all time (in its original 1.0 version form) but they deserve respect for actually having no instancing. You may look down upon that as backwards technology because they were older games but I'm sorry you're just a WoW fanboy just like I'm a DAoC fanboy and we're going to agree to disagree now. However, those games and others not mentioned are treated with great disrespect by the WoW community. I think anyone arguing against this deserve the same disrespect for their disregard for MMO history and can go stuff yourself with chocolates and sulk about that if you want to. Especially when all you know about is Warhammer Online and then make light of it like massive RvR is really nothing at all. You're just asking for RvR fanboys to get upset. So you got it. You happy?
This all just amounts to a Call of Duty vs. Duke Nukem/id software shooters/Serious Sam/other old school shooters fanboy fight but we all know that in the end the old school shooters win for being what created Call of Duty anyway. Neither is better than the other but respect where it's deserved for all our sakes. Thanks.
Its kind of like pornography - you know it when you see it. There are lots of lines to be drawn, lots of grey areas etc but the basics for me start with a very simple concept.
Thousands of players that interact with each other in a single world. Without this you can not have an MMO. Just because you have this does not guarentee that it is an MMO.
The 2nd item on the list for me is that in said world you have a chance to randomly meet up with anyone of the thousands of players at any given time. If there is "locked" content - that content only makes up a small portion of the game and only involves a small percentage of the advancement process. Locked content are instances in which only a select few people can enter and they have that instance all to themselves without any outside interference.
The 3rd item which is an outgrowth of the 2nd item on the list is that the actions of the other players in the world can have an impact on your game experience and you can have an impact on their experience and this impact is not restricted to locked instances.
Under these guidelines games like GW1, starcraft and Diablo are not MMO's even though there are thousands of people with the potential to interact with each other. I have never played DDO but from what I gather DDO would also not be an MMO.
This does not mean they are not good games and they dont cross the line from a simple multiplayer game to something that lies between standard multiplayer and MMO.
I think where this site screws up is that they treat too many games exactly the same and mix and mash them all together. Everyone has their own set of tastes and many people have tastes that cross various boundaries. It would still be better to define some boundaries and let those whose taste crosses those boundaries to go to each section.
For instance free to play should be seperate from sub based. Web based should be seperate from standard client/server based. Games that fall into that grey area should be seperate from games which are solidly one thing or another. Simplify the lists, seperate the content and the site becomes usefull again.
Skyrim and then in mmo sandbox setting totally open freeroaming world to explore no restrictions.
Thats a mmorpg to me time sink items should not be importend. Play the game immerse yourself in a gameworld where time has no meaning you plan a group of players to go on adventure if this take days who cares its an ADVENTURE afterwards you can tell the storys you've experienced.
Nowadays people rush through game dont bother with others it must all be easy and fast and get all your precious gear easy if not free or just buy in shop lol.
I want a real mmorpg not some goddamn speedtrip themepark rush:P
Hope to build full AMD system RYZEN/VEGA/AM4!!!
MB:Asus V De Luxe z77
CPU:Intell Icore7 3770k
GPU: AMD Fury X(waiting for BIG VEGA 10 or 11 HBM2?(bit unclear now))
MEMORY:Corsair PLAT.DDR3 1866MHZ 16GB
PSU:Corsair AX1200i
OS:Windows 10 64bit
Ie: Warhammer was built because EA's ceo wanted to make WoW bucks. Not develope an immursive world.
"No they are not charity. That is where the whales come in. (I play for free. Whales pays.) Devs get a business. That is how it works."
-Nariusseldon
Victory is predominantly gained through character attributes (stats/gear/perks) in Skyrim.
Just like how we call Planetside a MMOFPS because victory is predominantly gained through twitch skill.
"What is truly revealing is his implication that believing something to be true is the same as it being true. [continue]" -John Oliver
Victory is predominantly gained through character attributes (stats/gear/perks) in Skyrim.
Just like how we call Planetside a MMOFPS because victory is predominantly gained through twitch skill.
I disagree. I completed most of my dungeons as a low level. I had to maintain my magic of course, but my combat aiming was very important part of my success.Philosophy of MMO Game Design
Dungeons were scaled to your level.
So you're calling Skyrim a FPS? Again, nobody does that because the core gameplay is predominantly RPG.
"What is truly revealing is his implication that believing something to be true is the same as it being true. [continue]" -John Oliver
Skyrim is not a FPS.
Its not first person. You can play in first and third person perspective.
Its not a shooter. Character values massively influence the performance of the player character.
It might be called an Action RPG, but not a pure Action Game (like Tomb Raider) and certainly not a Shooter.