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Looking to build PC. Need help!

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  • QuizzicalQuizzical Member LegendaryPosts: 25,501

    Originally posted by simonwest80

    Lol Mr Quiz maybe you better go tell AMD that.

    I am giving the OP a choice, not necessarilly saving money.  Reason i picked the 1055t is that it benchmarks pretty closely with the i5 but £50 cheaper, and the bulldozer for being similarly priced.  The i5 was there as a bench mark based on as i have said before it is generally known for being the best bang for buck cpu.  

    Maybe they're close in performance in programs that scale well to six cores.  But games don't, so a Phenom II X6 is no better for games than a cheaper Phenom II X4.  Four faster cores (from the Core i5 2500) beat six slower cores in programs that don't scale past four cores.

  • simonwest80simonwest80 Member Posts: 173

    Originally posted by Quizzical

    Originally posted by simonwest80

    Lol Mr Quiz maybe you better go tell AMD that.

    I am giving the OP a choice, not necessarilly saving money.  Reason i picked the 1055t is that it benchmarks pretty closely with the i5 but £50 cheaper, and the bulldozer for being similarly priced.  The i5 was there as a bench mark based on as i have said before it is generally known for being the best bang for buck cpu.  

    Maybe they're close in performance in programs that scale well to six cores.  But games don't, so a Phenom II X6 is no better for games than a cheaper Phenom II X4.  Four faster cores (from the Core i5 2500) beat six slower cores in programs that don't scale past four cores.

    Thats fair enough my friend and was never doubting that - however this entire conversation is pretty mute as the OP has already stated he wants intel.........................

  • HellsMajestyHellsMajesty Member UncommonPosts: 204

    i do indeed want intel! i have not heard brilliant things about the AMD processors and the i5 seems to be the benchmark for other processors.

    Quizz thank you for going to the effort of doing that! i have compiled a rough list myself, however id like to know your opinion on the baracudda HDD as i have heard they are unreliable and the only other one i could find that performed at a similar speed was a 500GB.


    Product Name

    Qty

    Price

    Line Total

    HIS ATI Radeon HD 6950 IceQ X PLUS Edition 2048MB GDDR5 PCI-Express Graphics Card

    HIS ATI Radeon HD 6950 IceQ X PLUS Edition 2048MB GDDR5 PCI-Express Graphics Card


    £239.99

    (£199.99)

    £239.99

    (£199.99)

    OcUK ATI Radeon 6950 2048MB GDDR5 PCI-Express Graphics Card

    OcUK ATI Radeon 6950 2048MB GDDR5 PCI-Express Graphics Card


    £209.99

    (£174.99)

    £209.99

    (£174.99)

    Intel Core i5-2500K 3.30GHz (Sandybridge) Socket LGA1155 Processor - OEM

    Intel Core i5-2500K 3.30GHz (Sandybridge) Socket LGA1155 Processor - OEM


    £167.99

    (£139.99)

    £167.99

    (£139.99)

    Gigabyte Z68XP-UD3 Intel Z68 (Socket 1155) DDR3 Motherboard

    Gigabyte Z68XP-UD3 Intel Z68 (Socket 1155) DDR3 Motherboard


    £99.98

    (£83.32)

    £99.98

    (£83.32)

    Antec TruePower New Modular 650W '80 Plus Bronze' Power Supply

    Antec TruePower New Modular 650W '80 Plus Bronze' Power Supply


    £89.99

    (£74.99)

    £89.99

    (£74.99)

    Microsoft Windows 7 Home Premium SP1 64-Bit - OEM (GFC-02050)

    Microsoft Windows 7 Home Premium SP1 64-Bit - OEM (GFC-02050)


    £79.98

    (£66.65)

    £79.98

    (£66.65)

    Western Digital Caviar Blue 500GB SATA 6Gb/s 16MB Cache - OEM (WD5000AAKX)

    Western Digital Caviar Blue 500GB SATA 6Gb/s 16MB Cache - OEM (WD5000AAKX)


    £72.98

    (£60.82)

    £72.98

    (£60.82)

    BitFenix Shinobi Gaming Case - Black

    BitFenix Shinobi Gaming Case - Black


    £48.98

    (£40.82)

    £48.98

    (£40.82)

    Kingston HyperX Genesis Grey 8GB (2x4GB) DDR3 PC3-12800C9 1600MHz Dual Channel Kit (KHX1600C9D3X2K2/8GX)

    Kingston HyperX Genesis Grey 8GB (2x4GB) DDR3 PC3-12800C9 1600MHz Dual Channel Kit (KHX1600C9D3X2K2/8GX)


    £43.99

    (£36.66)

    £43.99

    (£36.66)

    Gelid Tranquillo CPU Cooler (Socket 754/939/940/AM2/AM2+/AM3/LGA775/LGA1155/LGA1156/LGA1366)

    Gelid Tranquillo CPU Cooler (Socket 754/939/940/AM2/AM2+/AM3/LGA775/LGA1155/LGA1156/LGA1366)


    £25.99

    (£21.66)

    £25.99

    (£21.66)

    the 2 graphics cards is just because i am unsure which would be a better option as the HIS version has a better cooler from the 9570 but is the fan and the brand worth £30 more. Also you can see the HDD i mentioned earlier. Finally would it be worth investing in 16GB RAM while it is currently so cheap or am i better off sticking with 8GB.

    but yer feel free to poke holes in the build, and i apologise for getting carried away and going over the budget i gave you :P

    image
  • QuizzicalQuizzical Member LegendaryPosts: 25,501

    The glaring problem with your build is that the price tag of £840 is way over your stated budget.  But if you've decided that you're willing to pay that, then that's fine.

    You're also missing an optical drive.  Presumably you're planning on salvaging it from the old computer.  If that's the only component you're going to salvage, then you might want to try just buying a new optical drive for £12 or so and selling the old computer intact.  It's probably not worth very much, but it's surely worth more than £12 unless it's completely dead, and would work for someone who really only wants a nettop.

    The HIS video card has an external exhaust cooler, which is nice if that's what you need, but if you're buying a case that can't handle an internal exhaust cooler on the video card, then the solution is to get a better case.  The case you're looking at should be fine as it is, and you could add a couple more fans to it if you wanted to be safe.

    With the power supply, do realize that you're paying for it to be semi-modular.  If that's what you want to do, then go ahead, but you can get something about as good for cheaper if you're willing to give up modularity.

    http://www.overclockers.co.uk/showproduct.php?prodid=CA-037-CS&groupid=701&catid=123&subcat=1084

    I think that's too much to pay for memory.  Some alternatives:

    http://www.overclockers.co.uk/showproduct.php?prodid=MY-132-CR&groupid=701&catid=8&subcat=1517

    http://www.overclockers.co.uk/showproduct.php?prodid=MY-300-CS&groupid=701&catid=8&subcat=1517

    http://www.overclockers.co.uk/showproduct.php?prodid=MY-060-GS&groupid=701&catid=8&subcat=1517

    The first one would probably be about as good as what you picked, and the last two offer clearly better specs.

    If you want to give the processor a moderate overclock (e.g., 4.2 GHz), you'll be able to do it on that hardware.  If you want to aim for 5 GHz, that's a bad idea.

  • simonwest80simonwest80 Member Posts: 173

    Just wondering what the reasoning was behind the mobo - have you a huge amount of USB devices?  As the main benefit over the board i put forward seems to be loads of USB and full SLI/Crossfire support.  If you havent got loads of USB and planning on SLI/Crossfire then that seems to be £20 down the drain (or as Quiz pointed out your optical drive).

    Are you going to be overclocking?  As if not you can straight away just pick up the 2500 rather than the 2500k which again is a saving.

    Also do as Quiz says re the memory and the if possible look for a slightly better HDD - the blue is WD midrange so one for playing games/os really would be worth spending a little extra on in this case the black edition.  But this really is knit picking.

    Are you based around Manchester/Bolton at all? As Scan has a drive in there where you can pick the pieces up.

  • QuizzicalQuizzical Member LegendaryPosts: 25,501

    Originally posted by simonwest80

    if possible look for a slightly better HDD - the blue is WD midrange so one for playing games/os really would be worth spending a little extra on in this case the black edition.

    The problem is that the WD Caviar Black seems to have a much larger price premium than normal due to the flooding in Thailand.  Back when it was $60 versus $50, the small price premium was easy to recommend.  When it's $150 versus $80, that's a much harder sell, especially since $150 gets you a good SSD.

    As for the Seagate Barracuda reliability, that's hard to gauge.  Even if it is less reliable than a WD Caviar Black (which it may or may not be), it wouldn't immediately follow that it's less reliable than a WD Caviar Blue.  Any of those hard drives will be more reliable than continuing to use a five year old hard drive.

  • Loke666Loke666 Member EpicPosts: 21,441

    Originally posted by Quizzical

    The problem is that the WD Caviar Black seems to have a much larger price premium than normal due to the flooding in Thailand.  Back when it was $60 versus $50, the small price premium was easy to recommend.  When it's $150 versus $80, that's a much harder sell, especially since $150 gets you a good SSD.

    As for the Seagate Barracuda reliability, that's hard to gauge.  Even if it is less reliable than a WD Caviar Black (which it may or may not be), it wouldn't immediately follow that it's less reliable than a WD Caviar Blue.  Any of those hard drives will be more reliable than continuing to use a five year old hard drive.

    I had plenty of drives (I have 6 SATA drives and 4 SSDs jacked in right now) and I actually believe that Seagate usually is slightly better than WD. Both have had issues with certain models a short time and both make excellent drives besides those times.

    4 of my current drives are Seagate, the other 2WDs. 

    I dunno if Maxtor still makes drives, but those were always the worst a few years back, noisy, hot and unreliable.

    I recommend Seagate all the way, most computer I build for my friends have them and there have been little problem for themas well. 

  • RidelynnRidelynn Member EpicPosts: 7,383

    For just general guidelines

    AMD/nVidia are typically this for that with regard to graphics cards- neither one has a huge lead of the other in terms of performance or bang for the buck. Both produce very respectable cards and drivers. At the end of the day it boils down to any preference you may have, and whatever sales may be going on when you happen to place your order, as to what is the better card/deal. Right now I lean toward AMD just because of PowerTune and their power efficiency, but that has very little impact on their relative performance in games. I would not consider anything under the 550GTS (nVidia) or 6770 (AMD) - those are as budget as I would go with either brand - anything lower and your losing a lot of performance while not really saving any money. Brand names are largely immaterial, most cards are reference design, your mainly paying for warranty and any aftermarket options.

    For CPUs: there really are only two things to consider: Do you have enough money to go with Intel Core i5 2500, or not? If you do, there is very little reason to pay for more CPU than that particular model (except possibly the 2500k, which allows for overclocking). If you don't have enough money, drop to an AMD Socket AM3+ Phenom II X4 or FX 4100. Any other budget CPU will start to really restrict your gaming, so you don't want to cut any farther that that. Really those are the only two options. A lot of people like to go for the Core i7 2600/2700 - and they are technically faster CPU's than the Core i5 2500, but you won't see any of that additional performance in video games. The Core i3 isn't a very good option, the Phenom II tends to outperform it for gaming for roughly the same price (although they are comparable).

    Once you have your CPU picked out, then you get a motherboard that works: either Socket 1155 (for Intel) or AM3+ (for AMD) - I go with Asus, although I've used MSI and Gigabyte successfully as well. Other brands; your mileage may vary. You don't need the super wham-o-dyne model (unless you plan on competition overclocking) - just get one with features you will use, and don't pay extra for features you don't need.

    Case is largely a matter of aesthetics. Any mid-large tower size will have enough ventilation and be fine

    Power supply: get a good high quality one. This is the hardest part of buying a computer, is picking out a good power supply. It's hard to fine adequate reviews, most of them are "It turns on, it looks pretty, so it must be a good power supply" - which couldn't be farther from the truth. You don't need high wattage, you need high quality. 650W will run pretty much any single CPU and video card put together with enough room left over for years of upgrades, and most computers can get by with 450W and be fine, so long as the power supply is a decent build. Corsair doesn't make any bad power supplies (yet), but most of their units are rebranded, and the exact same models can be found for cheaper elsewhere if you know what you are looking for.

    Memory- like video cards, your mostly just paying for brand name and warranty. Get at least 4G, 8G is nice. Anything more is overkill. 96% of computer users can't even use all of 4G, but it's cheap. Make sure you get a return policy/warranty - memory is fragile, and is a high DOA component. I like Kingston, a lot of people get G.Skill or Crucial. You don't need to pay a lot for super fast memory - standard DDR3 PC1333 (or higher) 1.5V (or less) CAS 9 (or lower) is good enough, if you can get faster for the same price great, if not then don't sweat it and don't pay for it. A lot of memory people try to sell "over clock" RAM, where it's advertised at 1866 or 2133 or some other really high speed, but at a voltage of 1.85 or 1.9V, which isn't good.

    And you need an operating system, and some sort of optical drive to install it. A new motherboard almost always needs a new OS license. Any SATA DVD-RW will do fine, they are pretty cheap and fairly standard such that you basically just need to pick one.

  • RidelynnRidelynn Member EpicPosts: 7,383


    Originally posted by Loke666

    Originally posted by Quizzical
    The problem is that the WD Caviar Black seems to have a much larger price premium than normal due to the flooding in Thailand.  Back when it was $60 versus $50, the small price premium was easy to recommend.  When it's $150 versus $80, that's a much harder sell, especially since $150 gets you a good SSD.
    As for the Seagate Barracuda reliability, that's hard to gauge.  Even if it is less reliable than a WD Caviar Black (which it may or may not be), it wouldn't immediately follow that it's less reliable than a WD Caviar Blue.  Any of those hard drives will be more reliable than continuing to use a five year old hard drive.
    I had plenty of drives (I have 6 SATA drives and 4 SSDs jacked in right now) and I actually believe that Seagate usually is slightly better than WD. Both have had issues with certain models a short time and both make excellent drives besides those times.
    4 of my current drives are Seagate, the other 2WDs. 
    I dunno if Maxtor still makes drives, but those were always the worst a few years back, noisy, hot and unreliable.
    I recommend Seagate all the way, most computer I build for my friends have them and there have been little problem for themas well. 

    Seagate actually bought out Maxtor, and sells the units under the Seagate name.

    http://www.maxtor.com/

  • Loke666Loke666 Member EpicPosts: 21,441

    Originally posted by Ridelynn

    Seagate actually bought out Maxtor, and sells the units under the Seagate name.

    http://www.maxtor.com

    I didn't know that but it seems like they replaced the engine with their own then. Maxtors engine overheated all the time and sounded like a Messerschmitt.

    Probably just as well.

  • RidelynnRidelynn Member EpicPosts: 7,383


    Originally posted by Loke666

    Originally posted by Ridelynn
    Seagate actually bought out Maxtor, and sells the units under the Seagate name.
    http://www.maxtor.com
    I didn't know that but it seems like they replaced the engine with their own then. Maxtors engine overheated all the time and sounded like a Messerschmitt.
    Probably just as well.

    Entirely likely. I didn't really care for Maxtors myself either.

  • HellsMajestyHellsMajesty Member UncommonPosts: 204
    Quizzical thank you for all your help so far. I won't bother with the external exhaust cooler then as £30 is a lot for something I don't need. I was considering purchasing a few case fans just for good measure anyway.
    I did not realise that about the PSU either i will most likely go for the one you suggested as I have seen that recommended elsewhere aswell. I will also go for one of the memory options you suggested.
    Simon I would like crossfire support so I can have the option of doubling up on the graphics card if I ever feel the need. And I would like To have a go at overclocking the CPU which is why I chose the 2500k.
    My main decision now is with the HDD, unfortunately I'm I'm London so getting to Manchester is a bit of a journey. I may just choose the WD caviar black as it seems to be a good compromise for what I want. I may invest in an SSD in the future for speed but right now I'm more concerned with getting all my media sorted and I think the current spec should be fast enough on its ow without one.

    image
  • RidelynnRidelynn Member EpicPosts: 7,383


    Originally posted by HellsMajesty
    Simon I would like crossfire support so I can have the option of doubling up on the graphics card if I ever feel the need. And I would like To have a go at overclocking the CPU which is why I chose the 2500k.

    A bit of warning about relying on Crossfire as an upgrade path.

    Crossfire does work, but there are some hidden concerns.

    When you decide to go Crossfire, unless you build your system around it initially, it won't work nearly as well as you expect (and even then it still may not work as well as you expect).

    ~Most~ motherboards with Crossfire/SLI support are x16/x4 - sure, it will work, but not well, because the second video card only gets 1/4 the bandwidth of the first. You really need to plan for your motherboard to have at least x8/x8 (so they are balanced), or ideally x16/x16 (although the difference between x8/x8 and x16/x16 isn't a whole lot). That often adds expense to the motherboard, because most of them are just x16/x4, or sometimes even worse.

    You will often need a bigger power supply. If you plan on overclocking, often a much bigger power supply. If you don't get this upfront, you'll end up needing to buy a second larger one later one.

    Two video cards means twice the heat, which means you need a bigger case with better ventilation. You also have to be very careful about internal versus external exhaust on the video card heat sink.

    Twice the video cards also means twice the noise. And twice the electric bill.

    And, lastly, Crossfire/SLI are very software dependent. The game has to have driver support. Drivers and profiles often don't come out until after the game has shipped - sometimes weeks, sometimes months. Smaller developers often times won't even bother, and if a generic profile doesn't work, may never work with Crossfire/SLI at all.

    If you are trying to upgrade to Crossfire as an upgrade path, in 2-3 years your current model of video card very likely won't be in production any more. You may have a very hard time finding one that will be compatible to Crossfire with, and even if you do, it often makes more sense to just upgrade to a single faster card (that has all the new software/DirectX/technology support and better power efficiency and new toys) rather than try to twin a second older card in Crossfire.

    So there are a lot of hidden concerns with Crossfire/SLI - and generally, if you are going to do it, do it up front and design your system around it. If you aren't going to do it now, don't plan on doing it later on. Crossfire/SLI are really a niche area: for people who need performance that no single video card can give them, and that's generally only people who are gaming at ultra-high resolutions across multiple monitors. For all the rest of us gaming at 1080p on single monitors, really, the disadvantages of Crossfire/SLI really make it not nearly as worth while, and in almost every case it ends up being more economical (when you consider all the factors) to just go with a single card.

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