Originally posted by moonlightchz Originally posted by Dekoth Ok then Kindly explain to me on what my incentive is to play the game more then a couple hours a week, if in the end we accomplish the same. What is my incentive to keep paying $15+ a month for a game that I get a max of a few hours enjoyment out of? I would dearly love to hear your explaination.
I'm not saying you shouldn't get just as much enjoyment as I do. I'm saying that leveling isn't based on real skill. Beefing up a warrior class char in a game takes little effort and after several days of straight gameplay (involving nothing more than pointing and clicking at enemies in many cases) you're much stronger than someone who puts 2 hours a day into their char. This is an unfair system to me, not because one has invested more time in the game than I have, but because the 'leveling' system itself isn't a good measure of fighting skill (what you call "twitching").
Ninja Gaiden (both the Xbox and Nintendo versions) is a great example of a system that does not invole leveling to go further into the game. The better you get with that blade, the better your enemies get and the further you progress. The only noticable leveling you do is increase HP, which isn't really necessary if you're good.
I'm not saying that all games should change to incorporate my way of thinking. You may, and probably do, disagree with me. What I'm saying is that there is no game that caters to fighter skills to gain ground in the game. All games are level-based or "skill-based". Skill-based being another word for leveling. It's really just a bunch of numbers that means "I've played longer than you so I'm obviously better" which isn't necessarily the case. Just because you've played for countless hours doesn't mean you can beat me in a real match.
People who think like I do don't have game that we can call our own... I'd much like to see one. As to how it would actually be implemented would take some serious planning since most 3D fighters suck but if it could be pulled off I'd be blissfully happy as I'm sure plenty of other gamers would.
But isn't this a different gaming market? I mean there is, after all, Ninja Gaiden or, if you want PvP type with other players, Halo and Halo 2. I guess what I'm saying is that you may be looking for an online, competitive version of Ninja Gaiden where your out of game abilities (reflexes, coordination, etc.) are the key to succeeding in the game. That's an interesting idea -- but it's not an MMORPG, but more of an online action/adventure game, sort of like an MMO version of Ninja Gaiden.
Originally posted by Novaseeker But isn't this a different gaming market? I mean there is, after all, Ninja Gaiden or, if you want PvP type with other players, Halo and Halo 2. I guess what I'm saying is that you may be looking for an online, competitive version of Ninja Gaiden where your out of game abilities (reflexes, coordination, etc.) are the key to succeeding in the game. That's an interesting idea -- but it's not an MMORPG, but more of an online action/adventure game, sort of like an MMO version of Ninja Gaiden.
That's more along the idea I'm talking about. This isn't an MMORPG because no one has taken it that far. To add all of the quests, items, gear, lifestyles, sense of community, area of gameplay, classes etc... to a game like this would be perfect. You're right in saying that it's more of an action game but it could become an RPG by adding the value you get from an RPG to the already perfect battle system.
However, for many players an RPG is leveling. This is exactly the kind of thing I'd like to move away from: the idea that you have to spend hours and hours in a game to get to a point where you can play every aspect of the game. Level should not dictate the places you can explore on a map.
To me, these types of games get old quick. The only thing that keeps me going is the storyline (or quests in the case of MMORPGs). Without that, I'm completely turned off. To see a game with the battle system of Ninja Gaiden, the sense of community that we're all hoping to see from Dark and Light, and a high level of character customization and a variety of gear would make the ultimate MMORPG.
To me, these types of games get old quick. The only thing that keeps me going is the storyline (or quests in the case of MMORPGs). Without that, I'm completely turned off. To see a game with the battle system of Ninja Gaiden, the sense of community that we're all hoping to see from Dark and Light, and a high level of character customization and a variety of gear would make the ultimate MMORPG.
It's an interesting idea. I think it's a different game from an MMORPG, however. For me, at least, one of the things I like about MMOs is that they generally are not a test of my finger coordination, reflexes or that kind of out-of-game skill (probably because Im not that skilled in these areas!), so I would not like that kind of game. But I'm sure there would be a market for it, as there would be a market for the other kind of free-flowing level-free game that has been advocated elsewhere on these boards.
Just the thought of that kind of battle system in an MMO makes me happy. To see tons of players whipping out combos (real fighter style combos) on a group of enemies in unison would be incredible.
I dont meant to be the devils advocate, but all these ideas are well and good, but try convincing the PUBLISHERS of these games to intiate these new ideas. Most companies wont stray from the norm, because it takes millions of dollars to create a game, and you can't just 'guess and check' with MMO's. They have to be SURE the idea will take off. With these new ideas, they arn't Thats why we see the same things over and over.
Originally posted by Sicarim I dont meant ot be the devils advocate, but all these ideas are will and good, but try convincing the PUBLISHERS of these games to intiate these new ideas. Most companies wont stray from the norm, because it takes millions of dollars to create a game, and you can't just 'guess and check' with MMO's. They have to be SURE the idea will take off. With these new ideas, they arn't Thats why we see the same things over and over.
What do you suggest? I'd do just about anything to see a game like this... hopefully others would as well.
I think what we as a community can do is voice our concerns and ideas to devlopers who are starting new projects, (very new ones, not things like MXO or anything deep into devlopment) and have them perhaps try new ideas into games one by one, rather than just go all at once. Many of us, including me, beta test games regularly, so we can suggest these ideas and fully explain them, trying to convince the devs to try these out. I think we can have an influence, because, obviosuly we are the consumer, and the customer is alwyas right!
Comments
I'm not saying you shouldn't get just as much enjoyment as I do. I'm saying that leveling isn't based on real skill. Beefing up a warrior class char in a game takes little effort and after several days of straight gameplay (involving nothing more than pointing and clicking at enemies in many cases) you're much stronger than someone who puts 2 hours a day into their char. This is an unfair system to me, not because one has invested more time in the game than I have, but because the 'leveling' system itself isn't a good measure of fighting skill (what you call "twitching").
Ninja Gaiden (both the Xbox and Nintendo versions) is a great example of a system that does not invole leveling to go further into the game. The better you get with that blade, the better your enemies get and the further you progress. The only noticable leveling you do is increase HP, which isn't really necessary if you're good.
I'm not saying that all games should change to incorporate my way of thinking. You may, and probably do, disagree with me. What I'm saying is that there is no game that caters to fighter skills to gain ground in the game. All games are level-based or "skill-based". Skill-based being another word for leveling. It's really just a bunch of numbers that means "I've played longer than you so I'm obviously better" which isn't necessarily the case. Just because you've played for countless hours doesn't mean you can beat me in a real match.
People who think like I do don't have game that we can call our own... I'd much like to see one. As to how it would actually be implemented would take some serious planning since most 3D fighters suck but if it could be pulled off I'd be blissfully happy as I'm sure plenty of other gamers would.
But isn't this a different gaming market? I mean there is, after all, Ninja Gaiden or, if you want PvP type with other players, Halo and Halo 2. I guess what I'm saying is that you may be looking for an online, competitive version of Ninja Gaiden where your out of game abilities (reflexes, coordination, etc.) are the key to succeeding in the game. That's an interesting idea -- but it's not an MMORPG, but more of an online action/adventure game, sort of like an MMO version of Ninja Gaiden.
That's more along the idea I'm talking about. This isn't an MMORPG because no one has taken it that far. To add all of the quests, items, gear, lifestyles, sense of community, area of gameplay, classes etc... to a game like this would be perfect. You're right in saying that it's more of an action game but it could become an RPG by adding the value you get from an RPG to the already perfect battle system.
However, for many players an RPG is leveling. This is exactly the kind of thing I'd like to move away from: the idea that you have to spend hours and hours in a game to get to a point where you can play every aspect of the game. Level should not dictate the places you can explore on a map.
To me, these types of games get old quick. The only thing that keeps me going is the storyline (or quests in the case of MMORPGs). Without that, I'm completely turned off. To see a game with the battle system of Ninja Gaiden, the sense of community that we're all hoping to see from Dark and Light, and a high level of character customization and a variety of gear would make the ultimate MMORPG.
:::: officially boycotting capital letters ::::
It's an interesting idea. I think it's a different game from an MMORPG, however. For me, at least, one of the things I like about MMOs is that they generally are not a test of my finger coordination, reflexes or that kind of out-of-game skill (probably because Im not that skilled in these areas!), so I would not like that kind of game. But I'm sure there would be a market for it, as there would be a market for the other kind of free-flowing level-free game that has been advocated elsewhere on these boards.
Just the thought of that kind of battle system in an MMO makes me happy. To see tons of players whipping out combos (real fighter style combos) on a group of enemies in unison would be incredible.
I'd pay to play that one. Easy.
:::: officially boycotting capital letters ::::
What do you suggest? I'd do just about anything to see a game like this... hopefully others would as well.
:::: officially boycotting capital letters ::::