Wthey still persist in creating Dust, a console only ground version of the game
Dust is not a ground version of EVE, it is a console shooter and as such it has nothing in common with EVE... That pretty much answer your question.
In actuality, dust and eve are going to be heavily intertwined. The main part of dust will revolve around eve players paying the dust players to fight the ground battles for control of planets. It will affect the outcomes of the eve universe, and the dust players will benefit for interation with the eve players who will pay and thus get gear to the dust players. Dust will just be catering for the more action oriented console player market. Despite the pc purists, the ps3 is a very lucrative prospect. Console only games means less hacking and modders, less bugs and easier development since don't need to account for all the os and different hardware support.
I think what is sad is that I can agree that EvE isn't always that much fun, but still think its the best MMO around. My main problem with EvE is that the vast majority of players aren't in the game at all. When you play, its really clear that everyone is really a person at a keyboard somewhere. There's no immersion, despite the incredible potential for it. The meta-game is so huge that the game-game is lost in the shuffle I think. Especially deeper into the game, everyone is on corp/alliance TS/Vent and the identity of their characters is non-existent.
I think what is sad is that I can agree that EvE isn't always that much fun, but still think its the best MMO around. My main problem with EvE is that the vast majority of players aren't in the game at all. When you play, its really clear that everyone is really a person at a keyboard somewhere. There's no immersion, despite the incredible potential for it. The meta-game is so huge that the game-game is lost in the shuffle I think. Especially deeper into the game, everyone is on corp/alliance TS/Vent and the identity of their characters is non-existent.
There is still a small core of role players and faction warfare guys who try to play the character in game most of the time. But you are right its not really about the game lore when you play EVE. Individuals are usually identified by association (unless said individual has some personal EVE-fame) with a corp or alliance and judged by that corp or alliance's reputation. Like members of Pandemic Legion would usually be regarded as dangerous (like zomg run away) or a Goon would usually be regarded as untrustworthy (don't send him any isk or contract ships inexhange for promises). Other players don't see you as an individual, they see you as a member of an entity and assume entities are generally homogenous. But perhaps thats part of the immersion of EVE, a different kind of immersion but immersion nonetheless.
1) It rips off so much from Eve wholesale that I just thought that was plain rude of the developers to do
2) Even on a good computer at the lowest graphics settings the lag was so outrageously painful that it was almost unplayable outright. If you tried a 10 vs 10 PvP round on that thing your internet connection would probably explode. I know my internet connection and computer are at least decent since I can run Eve at moderate-to-high graphics settings and not have any real issues unless the number of ships in the area get into the triple digits.
i play perpetuum on my laptop and it runs just fine. don't lie about a game just to try to justify your reason for liking a similar one.
You dare accuse me of lying you asshat? I do not make false statements for the hell of it, and I do not falsly justify any reason for liking any game, period. I have a sense of honor, apparently unlike you, and when I comment on a game either positively or negatively, I truly believe and mean every word. When I tried Perpetuum, which was soon after the Eve riots started and people were talking about it, the lag was absolutely terrible. It single-handedly ruined the entire game for me, and given the other games that I play without lag issues I know that my computer and internet connection are not crap. That is not a lie.
Don't go blatantly insulting people for no valid reason f*cktard.
I think what is sad is that I can agree that EvE isn't always that much fun, but still think its the best MMO around. My main problem with EvE is that the vast majority of players aren't in the game at all. When you play, its really clear that everyone is really a person at a keyboard somewhere. There's no immersion, despite the incredible potential for it. The meta-game is so huge that the game-game is lost in the shuffle I think. Especially deeper into the game, everyone is on corp/alliance TS/Vent and the identity of their characters is non-existent.
There is still a small core of role players and faction warfare guys who try to play the character in game most of the time. But you are right its not really about the game lore when you play EVE. Individuals are usually identified by association (unless said individual has some personal EVE-fame) with a corp or alliance and judged by that corp or alliance's reputation. Like members of Pandemic Legion would usually be regarded as dangerous (like zomg run away) or a Goon would usually be regarded as untrustworthy (don't send him any isk or contract ships inexhange for promises). Other players don't see you as an individual, they see you as a member of an entity and assume entities are generally homogenous. But perhaps thats part of the immersion of EVE, a different kind of immersion but immersion nonetheless.
*nods* And if they ever do see you as an individual, its always as who you are as a player, never as your char in game. Which, given the lore, the environment, the gorgeous new avatars, is a shame since the potential for immersion is so huge.
Originally posted by Paradigm68 Originally posted by Calfis
Originally posted by Paradigm68
I think what is sad is that I can agree that EvE isn't always that much fun, but still think its the best MMO around. My main problem with EvE is that the vast majority of players aren't in the game at all. When you play, its really clear that everyone is really a person at a keyboard somewhere. There's no immersion, despite the incredible potential for it. The meta-game is so huge that the game-game is lost in the shuffle I think. Especially deeper into the game, everyone is on corp/alliance TS/Vent and the identity of their characters is non-existent.
There is still a small core of role players and faction warfare guys who try to play the character in game most of the time. But you are right its not really about the game lore when you play EVE. Individuals are usually identified by association (unless said individual has some personal EVE-fame) with a corp or alliance and judged by that corp or alliance's reputation. Like members of Pandemic Legion would usually be regarded as dangerous (like zomg run away) or a Goon would usually be regarded as untrustworthy (don't send him any isk or contract ships inexhange for promises). Other players don't see you as an individual, they see you as a member of an entity and assume entities are generally homogenous. But perhaps thats part of the immersion of EVE, a different kind of immersion but immersion nonetheless. *nods* And if they ever do see you as an individual, its always as who you are as a player, never as your char in game. Which, given the lore, the environment, the gorgeous new avatars, is a shame since the potential for immersion is so huge.
Perhaps another one of the hidden reasons why the game felt like work and i couldn't get immersed. I was very aware that my character and other peoples characters meant nothing to anyone, it was all just for the pew-pew. I would love to play the lone range going into the unknown, but instead i know that it's just full of players with a workbook of spreadsheets and their own personal alliance e-peen wars.
As stupid as it sounds, you are very aware you are playing a game and it feels what it would be like if i put a GUI on my work PC. I have Outlook, Excel and some contract management software open at the moment. I sometimes think i could download a windows theme and i would have EvE functionality. In other words, people are TOO serious about the game and as such, it becomes work.
But then, i'm doing it wrong, haven't played, left school at 5, or something,etc lol.
My problem with EVE is the combat isn't skill based like a Battlefront or something. You just target a ship and turn on your modules and that isn't really exciting, the only exciting combat happens in the Alliance Tournament where there are set amount of ships and rules. However in the real game all that happens is whoever has the most ships and money wins. From my experience you're fighting someone and then 20 more ships jump in and you have no chance, it's always the way. Lots of serious pvpers have lots of ALTs who jump in and because the combat is so easy you can control multiple ships at once.
The hard part in EVE comes getting the money because it is so mind numbly boring. People will say all these things you can do but in reality you cannot and being a new player a corp isn't going to fund you all these ships no matter what people say. So you have to join in doing the repetitive stuff with them like complexes, mining, missions etc. The only story stuff in the game is basically normal missions with some more text, it isn't fun...
It was ok back in 2003 because people didn't have much money, most people were solo and didn't have ALTS. So you could fly around solo making lots of money to fund your PVP habbit, this isn't the case now because it is all about ganking the other player with more players. Everyone says if you solo or only fly around with a friend or two then you're an idiot, you need to join a corp. The problem I have is joining the zerg isn't fun for me, that doesn't require any skill.
EVE has lots of great ideas I'd like to be applied to future MMOs, the boring repetitive actions to make money and the combat aren't part of them.
Originally posted by tixylix My problem with EVE is the combat isn't skill based like a Battlefront or something. You just target a ship and turn on your modules and that isn't really exciting, the only exciting combat happens in the Alliance Tournament where there are set amount of ships and rules. However in the real game all that happens is whoever has the most ships and money wins. From my experience you're fighting someone and then 20 more ships jump in and you have no chance, it's always the way. Lots of serious pvpers have lots of ALTs who jump in and because the combat is so easy you can control multiple ships at once. The hard part in EVE comes getting the money because it is so mind numbly boring. People will say all these things you can do but in reality you cannot and being a new player a corp isn't going to fund you all these ships no matter what people say. So you have to join in doing the repetitive stuff with them like complexes, mining, missions etc. The only story stuff in the game is basically normal missions with some more text, it isn't fun... It was ok back in 2003 because people didn't have much money, most people were solo and didn't have ALTS. So you could fly around solo making lots of money to fund your PVP habbit, this isn't the case now because it is all about ganking the other player with more players. Everyone says if you solo or only fly around with a friend or two then you're an idiot, you need to join a corp. The problem I have is joining the zerg isn't fun for me, that doesn't require any skill. EVE has lots of great ideas I'd like to be applied to future MMOs, the boring repetitive actions to make money and the combat aren't part of them.
Spot on really. But once you are at the top after playing several years, alot of the vets won't see these issues and just tell you that you aren't doing it right. Which is very frustrating.
I ended up buying gamecards and selling them for ISK, or the plex thing now. But then, i had all the ships i wanted that i set out to get, my skills were levelled up enough to fly them very well, so it's like...ok i'll look for someone to kill, then you get the above.
Does my head in, as i just can't put my finger on how to solve it all, or maybe i just can't.
I think what is sad is that I can agree that EvE isn't always that much fun, but still think its the best MMO around. My main problem with EvE is that the vast majority of players aren't in the game at all. When you play, its really clear that everyone is really a person at a keyboard somewhere. There's no immersion, despite the incredible potential for it. The meta-game is so huge that the game-game is lost in the shuffle I think. Especially deeper into the game, everyone is on corp/alliance TS/Vent and the identity of their characters is non-existent.
There is still a small core of role players and faction warfare guys who try to play the character in game most of the time. But you are right its not really about the game lore when you play EVE. Individuals are usually identified by association (unless said individual has some personal EVE-fame) with a corp or alliance and judged by that corp or alliance's reputation. Like members of Pandemic Legion would usually be regarded as dangerous (like zomg run away) or a Goon would usually be regarded as untrustworthy (don't send him any isk or contract ships inexhange for promises). Other players don't see you as an individual, they see you as a member of an entity and assume entities are generally homogenous. But perhaps thats part of the immersion of EVE, a different kind of immersion but immersion nonetheless.
*nods* And if they ever do see you as an individual, its always as who you are as a player, never as your char in game. Which, given the lore, the environment, the gorgeous new avatars, is a shame since the potential for immersion is so huge.
Perhaps another one of the hidden reasons why the game felt like work and i couldn't get immersed. I was very aware that my character and other peoples characters meant nothing to anyone, it was all just for the pew-pew. I would love to play the lone range going into the unknown, but instead i know that it's just full of players with a workbook of spreadsheets and their own personal alliance e-peen wars.
As stupid as it sounds, you are very aware you are playing a game and it feels what it would be like if i put a GUI on my work PC. I have Outlook, Excel and some contract management software open at the moment. I sometimes think i could download a windows theme and i would have EvE functionality. In other words, people are TOO serious about the game and as such, it becomes work.
But then, i'm doing it wrong, haven't played, left school at 5, or something,etc lol.
Arguably thats what immersion in EVE is, its the point where the game becomes serious or real for you, then you are immersed. The e-peen and e-vendettas are probably the most important things in keeping veteran players subbed and unwilling to leave. I can name two alliances that I personally hate for a number of reasons I accumulated over the past 2 years. The second alliance I probably could have forgiven if their members had not been so horridly smug in local chat. Instead I've come to the conclusion that I must see them burn (and will join any alliance willing to commit them to fire) all so I can see how terribly smug they will be after their empire lies in ashes. I admit that there would be a certain amount of pleasure in seeing that particular alliance's e-peen cut off.
But this is what immerses me in the game. How is this kind of immersion different from seriously pretending to be a Jedi in a star wars universe. I would argue that the more real the immersion the more it gets your juices following towards a specific goal in the game, i.e. the destruction of long time enemies. EVE is the only game that ever got my adrenaline pumping in a fight or flight response to things that happen in a game. Its the only game that has caused me to ever spontaneously utter "Shit! SHIT! SHIT!!!" If thats not immersion then really, what is? Where does it say you have to be in character to be immersed?
I am a long time MMO player and not too long ago I tried the 14 day trial of EvE and tried really hard to get into it but just couldn't. The whole space idea and the player run economy look so much fun and I think I would have a blast getting into but the actual gameplay just isn't fun. The mining is sitting in one spot for 5 minuites while you mine, that isn't exciting at all. Even the combat is just selecting a red dot, selecting attack and waiting untill they die. Maybe it is just that I am not patient enough for EvE but I keep trying to get into and it is so hard, mainly because the gameplay isn't fun.
Any EvE players have advice of when/if/how this gets less boring or do you just need extreme patience to enjoy this game?
I agree... I have tried desperate to like this game. I think I'll tried it about 10-15 times over the years...lol.
I'm not saying it's not a good game, I'm sure it is, but it's very niche. I'm a causual player due to my job, child, wife, etc. I noticed when I tried it the last time, I went about 4 days at about an hour every other night or so and didn't see one other player... Not one. Granted, I was coming into the game at the late stages and most others are no doubt past starting areas, but man... felt lonely. Also, it took 15-20 minutes to get anywhere. I mean, really 15-20 minutes. I just don't have that kinda time to spend jumping through warp gates. Sometimes I only have about a hour to play, more then half was spent traveling.
Like I said, I'm sure once you get into the groove and get set up with some good folks, the game is great. And they certainly don't apologize for the steep learning curve, nor should they... but for a new player of the casual variety, it just doesn't work.
Having fun in eve requires getting a little creative, having a goal, and playing with friends. If you are a creative person you can really have a blast here. Set a goal for yourself, think up something interesting - making a market scam, coming up with a high profit traderoute, becoming an influential diplomat, making an appealing trap for unwary pilots... and then recruit people to help you with it. Join a corporation that has interests and goals similar to yours. Whatever you do, avoid solo play for no purpose other than to be playing - eve is not that kind of game.
I do not find the combat to be fun, it feels like too much of the outcome is decided before the fighting begins - the better player is the one that makes the correct decision about when to engage or flee. I do not think mining is fun, I have not even begun to try it though now it seems like I may start. You may wonder wonder why I play then - for me, it is the scheming and the attempting to pull off said schemes that is best. You are not limited like you would be in other games. The game is not going to flash a big red "You cannot do that" at the top of your screen. You are not going to get a GM coming down on you and telling you that you are being mean or doing something unintended and suspending your account. Whatever you can come up with, you can try. You just might be able to pull it off.
People say EVE is a great game if you're a creative person or if you can make your own fun. To me, that's bad game design. The game itself should be fun without requiring me to work in order to make it so.
People say EVE is a great game if you're a creative person or if you can make your own fun. To me, that's bad game design. The game itself should be fun without requiring me to work in order to make it so.
If you feel that way EVE is perfectly functional as a pve mission grind followed by incursion grinding. That kind of gameplay is not interesting to me so I did not mention it. I do think that EVE is a bit subpar in those areas anyways, but then again it seems that most games these days are.
Also some websites that have helped me get more out of eve:
http://www.eveonline.com/background/potw/ - short stories in official EVE lore - I love reading these, they really help the world to come alive for me. I think they should be accessable directly from "show info" in game
I was going to hold off resubbing due to the approaching TSW release, but after shelling out for a holiday, i think i need to save money lol.
I'll resub tomorrow night, so that will give me the best chance to catch others online and get balls deep in the game again.
I'm hoping i didn't go on a suicide rampage and spend all my ISK and blow all my ships before i left last time :O
The new Tornado class battlecrusier is a gankers dream, With Lvl 5 skills in projectile guns and minmatar battleship it can do 13,000 damage a volley with large projectile turrets. It can do 2 volleys (before CONCORD pwns you) in a 0.5 or 0.6 security system provided that you are not right next to some CONCORD ships. Really good for ganking mining barges that might have shiny items on them. Additionally they kill industrial hauler ships scary easy (these ships sometimes carry items far far exceeding the value of said ship) you should have a cargo scanner handy to see if ships are worth welping a 60Mil battlecruiser. Note that you no longer get insurance after suicide ganking other players.
Crow (inty) Flycatcher (interdictor) Drake (tank) The Caracal HAC that had like 80km range with boosters or something daft. Raven (although rarely flew one as i didn't feel i had the support skills levelled enough for it)
My plan when i first started was to fly the fastest ships and i always wanted flycacther, as it looked amazing, fast as shit off a shovel and you could whack 5/6 missile launchers in it. I know it is or was crap, but i think thats my fave ship and i'll prob get it again - also cheapish to lose.
I am a long time MMO player and not too long ago I tried the 14 day trial of EvE and tried really hard to get into it but just couldn't. The whole space idea and the player run economy look so much fun and I think I would have a blast getting into but the actual gameplay just isn't fun. The mining is sitting in one spot for 5 minuites while you mine, that isn't exciting at all. Even the combat is just selecting a red dot, selecting attack and waiting untill they die. Maybe it is just that I am not patient enough for EvE but I keep trying to get into and it is so hard, mainly because the gameplay isn't fun.
Any EvE players have advice of when/if/how this gets less boring or do you just need extreme patience to enjoy this game?
This probably sums up why I can never get into Eve as well. I like FFA PvP and I like space sci-fi but the gameplay and specially combat with two icons taking turns firing at each other and activating shields/repairers is so mindnumbingly boring that I cant just get into it regardless of its other aspects.
This is why I like SQO. I am a person not a ship. I can board other players ships, beam or shuttle down to planets, and I can have other players doing all of this with me, adn mining still might be sitting around for 5 minutes but at least you have someone on the bridge with you to BS with.
"I am not in a server with Gankers...THEY ARE IN A SERVER WITH ME!!!"
People say EVE is a great game if you're a creative person or if you can make your own fun. To me, that's bad game design. The game itself should be fun without requiring me to work in order to make it so.
The people EVE is targeted for enjoy doing work as part of the gameplay. It's not bad design, just design not intended to appeal to a broad audience.
I wish more developers would take this approach and narrow the focus down of their games so that they make a small subset more or less happy instead of a large number of folks all wishing their games were something else.
Am I saying EVE players are totally happy with how things are, of course not. But they almost all agree the game is just what they are looking for and rarely stray from the field.
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
This is why I like SQO. I am a person not a ship. I can board other players ships, beam or shuttle down to planets, and I can have other players doing all of this with me, adn mining still might be sitting around for 5 minutes but at least you have someone on the bridge with you to BS with.
I am a long time MMO player and not too long ago I tried the 14 day trial of EvE and tried really hard to get into it but just couldn't. The whole space idea and the player run economy look so much fun and I think I would have a blast getting into but the actual gameplay just isn't fun. The mining is sitting in one spot for 5 minuites while you mine, that isn't exciting at all. Even the combat is just selecting a red dot, selecting attack and waiting untill they die. Maybe it is just that I am not patient enough for EvE but I keep trying to get into and it is so hard, mainly because the gameplay isn't fun.
Any EvE players have advice of when/if/how this gets less boring or do you just need extreme patience to enjoy this game?
Heh , there is the reason why most MMO's fail. The type of mentality that enrages any Dev.
EVE-Online is all about team work , now if you think your gonna have fun playing by yourself then leave EVE-Online immediately because you'll find nothing fun being by yourself. Unlike every other MMO where Devs set it on easy mode for anyone to solo max level inside of a week , CCP approach to EVE-Online is completely the reverse as in : You play by our rules or go play something else.
An example of your mining experience : The average miner / scientist in EVE-Online will mine to create modules / Ammo to then resale or keep for personal use , as their training in science keeps going up they are able to invent blueprints for stronger modules / ammo / ships that sale for alot of money. That's just a basic run down if you take the time to investigate what EVE-Online is all about , because if you think CCP will hand you everything on a silver plater , you better have a load of kleenex's by your side for your QQ because it won't happen anytime soon. I'm a proud EVE-Online CCP supporter / player since early 2006 and I enjoy every freaking day of it and so do my friends!
As far as PvE / PvP in EVE-Online your missing the whole picture. But I took the time to know what EVE was all about and it did take me a few months to fully grasp some concepts , and year after year they release new content to keep even the old timers busy. So take the time and know your game before playing it , if patience isn't you thing , then EVE-Online isn't your MMO so move on to something else.
I have a great many problems with EVE that would take far too much room and time to list...
But I'll simply say that I agree with the OP, I spent and paid for a total of I believe 4 months of EvE Online subscription, got into some 0.0 and wormhole stuff and up to a pretty well fit battlecruiser etc. Was in a corp, had some vets with all the jump stuff and capital ships etc.
And I just.. couldn't find the fun. Sure, there were some fun moments, but few and far between - and what occupied that space in between was grinding, boredom, tedium, and frustration.
I guess my "ideal" MMO is much more like UO was post-Trammel (especially during the Factions warfare)
EvE, for all its complexity, simply lacked the same sense of adventure and exploration and fun that UO had all those years ago.
I wouldn't classify EvE as a "good" game from a objective design stand point, but it's not bad and from a purely subjective viewpoint it is certainly not for me.
The Caracal HAC that had like 80km range with boosters or something daft.
Raven (although rarely flew one as i didn't feel i had the support skills levelled enough for it)
My plan when i first started was to fly the fastest ships and i always wanted flycacther, as it looked amazing, fast as shit off a shovel and you could whack 5/6 missile launchers in it. I know it is or was crap, but i think thats my fave ship and i'll prob get it again - also cheapish to lose.
Crow would probably be most useful in small scale pvp where it would act as tackle, not to viable in large fights because it pops easy.
Flycatcher I've seen in small, medium and big fights. You almost always need someone to drop a bubble somewhere, though its big brother the Onyx is probably preferred.
Drake, when all else is not an option bring a drake (pvp fit tho) its just as good as the more popular hurricane and it is more widely used in large fights at range.
Tech 2 Caracal only really viable in a small gang. It can't solo like its Minmatar counterpart the Vagabond. I haven't really seen it used much anywhere really, there are probably better heavy assault cruiser options such as the Vaga.
Raven... is a mission boat. Really the only thing its good for, which also makes it great for farming anomalies up to havens.
As a MMO game EVE forces interaction with other players in various ways and the more social you are in eve the more rewarding the game will be. Whether it be in gang warfare, market manipulation, or good old fashion griefing it's much more rewarding if you can tell another person your character's story; which brings me to the seocnd half of MMORPG.
As with any good RPG the game play in eve is the story you create for your character and how you make your character's story evolve. What you are calling gameplay is just a few of the tools you can use to achieve your toon's story.
What's that? A game that gets you to play with other gamers sometimes against your or their will and allows you to tell your character's unique and possibly compelling story to other people? All MMORPGs should be like that and not force your character thru the storyline cookie cutter that makes everyone's story is the exact same so nobody wants to hear about yours - if that's the case - why play a MMORPG at all? The entire point to a MMORPG is to express yourself to other players thru role play and EVE online does a great job of allowing that.
Perhaps you should focus more on the other people you share the game world with and less time on hanging out with boring old NPCs.
I promise you'll have more fun.
"Lectroids? Planet 10? Nuclear extortion? A girl named "John"?
Comments
Eve cannot be appropriately sampled in 14 days.
I think what is sad is that I can agree that EvE isn't always that much fun, but still think its the best MMO around. My main problem with EvE is that the vast majority of players aren't in the game at all. When you play, its really clear that everyone is really a person at a keyboard somewhere. There's no immersion, despite the incredible potential for it. The meta-game is so huge that the game-game is lost in the shuffle I think. Especially deeper into the game, everyone is on corp/alliance TS/Vent and the identity of their characters is non-existent.
There is still a small core of role players and faction warfare guys who try to play the character in game most of the time. But you are right its not really about the game lore when you play EVE. Individuals are usually identified by association (unless said individual has some personal EVE-fame) with a corp or alliance and judged by that corp or alliance's reputation. Like members of Pandemic Legion would usually be regarded as dangerous (like zomg run away) or a Goon would usually be regarded as untrustworthy (don't send him any isk or contract ships inexhange for promises). Other players don't see you as an individual, they see you as a member of an entity and assume entities are generally homogenous. But perhaps thats part of the immersion of EVE, a different kind of immersion but immersion nonetheless.
You dare accuse me of lying you asshat? I do not make false statements for the hell of it, and I do not falsly justify any reason for liking any game, period. I have a sense of honor, apparently unlike you, and when I comment on a game either positively or negatively, I truly believe and mean every word. When I tried Perpetuum, which was soon after the Eve riots started and people were talking about it, the lag was absolutely terrible. It single-handedly ruined the entire game for me, and given the other games that I play without lag issues I know that my computer and internet connection are not crap. That is not a lie.
Don't go blatantly insulting people for no valid reason f*cktard.
Where's the any key?
*nods* And if they ever do see you as an individual, its always as who you are as a player, never as your char in game. Which, given the lore, the environment, the gorgeous new avatars, is a shame since the potential for immersion is so huge.
*nods* And if they ever do see you as an individual, its always as who you are as a player, never as your char in game. Which, given the lore, the environment, the gorgeous new avatars, is a shame since the potential for immersion is so huge.
Perhaps another one of the hidden reasons why the game felt like work and i couldn't get immersed. I was very aware that my character and other peoples characters meant nothing to anyone, it was all just for the pew-pew. I would love to play the lone range going into the unknown, but instead i know that it's just full of players with a workbook of spreadsheets and their own personal alliance e-peen wars.
As stupid as it sounds, you are very aware you are playing a game and it feels what it would be like if i put a GUI on my work PC. I have Outlook, Excel and some contract management software open at the moment. I sometimes think i could download a windows theme and i would have EvE functionality. In other words, people are TOO serious about the game and as such, it becomes work.
But then, i'm doing it wrong, haven't played, left school at 5, or something,etc lol.
My problem with EVE is the combat isn't skill based like a Battlefront or something. You just target a ship and turn on your modules and that isn't really exciting, the only exciting combat happens in the Alliance Tournament where there are set amount of ships and rules. However in the real game all that happens is whoever has the most ships and money wins. From my experience you're fighting someone and then 20 more ships jump in and you have no chance, it's always the way. Lots of serious pvpers have lots of ALTs who jump in and because the combat is so easy you can control multiple ships at once.
The hard part in EVE comes getting the money because it is so mind numbly boring. People will say all these things you can do but in reality you cannot and being a new player a corp isn't going to fund you all these ships no matter what people say. So you have to join in doing the repetitive stuff with them like complexes, mining, missions etc. The only story stuff in the game is basically normal missions with some more text, it isn't fun...
It was ok back in 2003 because people didn't have much money, most people were solo and didn't have ALTS. So you could fly around solo making lots of money to fund your PVP habbit, this isn't the case now because it is all about ganking the other player with more players. Everyone says if you solo or only fly around with a friend or two then you're an idiot, you need to join a corp. The problem I have is joining the zerg isn't fun for me, that doesn't require any skill.
EVE has lots of great ideas I'd like to be applied to future MMOs, the boring repetitive actions to make money and the combat aren't part of them.
Spot on really. But once you are at the top after playing several years, alot of the vets won't see these issues and just tell you that you aren't doing it right. Which is very frustrating.
I ended up buying gamecards and selling them for ISK, or the plex thing now. But then, i had all the ships i wanted that i set out to get, my skills were levelled up enough to fly them very well, so it's like...ok i'll look for someone to kill, then you get the above.
Does my head in, as i just can't put my finger on how to solve it all, or maybe i just can't.
Arguably thats what immersion in EVE is, its the point where the game becomes serious or real for you, then you are immersed. The e-peen and e-vendettas are probably the most important things in keeping veteran players subbed and unwilling to leave. I can name two alliances that I personally hate for a number of reasons I accumulated over the past 2 years. The second alliance I probably could have forgiven if their members had not been so horridly smug in local chat. Instead I've come to the conclusion that I must see them burn (and will join any alliance willing to commit them to fire) all so I can see how terribly smug they will be after their empire lies in ashes. I admit that there would be a certain amount of pleasure in seeing that particular alliance's e-peen cut off.
But this is what immerses me in the game. How is this kind of immersion different from seriously pretending to be a Jedi in a star wars universe. I would argue that the more real the immersion the more it gets your juices following towards a specific goal in the game, i.e. the destruction of long time enemies. EVE is the only game that ever got my adrenaline pumping in a fight or flight response to things that happen in a game. Its the only game that has caused me to ever spontaneously utter "Shit! SHIT! SHIT!!!" If thats not immersion then really, what is? Where does it say you have to be in character to be immersed?
I agree... I have tried desperate to like this game. I think I'll tried it about 10-15 times over the years...lol.
I'm not saying it's not a good game, I'm sure it is, but it's very niche. I'm a causual player due to my job, child, wife, etc. I noticed when I tried it the last time, I went about 4 days at about an hour every other night or so and didn't see one other player... Not one. Granted, I was coming into the game at the late stages and most others are no doubt past starting areas, but man... felt lonely. Also, it took 15-20 minutes to get anywhere. I mean, really 15-20 minutes. I just don't have that kinda time to spend jumping through warp gates. Sometimes I only have about a hour to play, more then half was spent traveling.
Like I said, I'm sure once you get into the groove and get set up with some good folks, the game is great. And they certainly don't apologize for the steep learning curve, nor should they... but for a new player of the casual variety, it just doesn't work.
Having fun in eve requires getting a little creative, having a goal, and playing with friends. If you are a creative person you can really have a blast here. Set a goal for yourself, think up something interesting - making a market scam, coming up with a high profit traderoute, becoming an influential diplomat, making an appealing trap for unwary pilots... and then recruit people to help you with it. Join a corporation that has interests and goals similar to yours. Whatever you do, avoid solo play for no purpose other than to be playing - eve is not that kind of game.
I recommend getting Eve Fitting Tool - I have a lot of fun min/maxing my setups and trying to get my favorite ship to be as efficient as possible: http://www.eveonline.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadid=548883
I do not find the combat to be fun, it feels like too much of the outcome is decided before the fighting begins - the better player is the one that makes the correct decision about when to engage or flee. I do not think mining is fun, I have not even begun to try it though now it seems like I may start. You may wonder wonder why I play then - for me, it is the scheming and the attempting to pull off said schemes that is best. You are not limited like you would be in other games. The game is not going to flash a big red "You cannot do that" at the top of your screen. You are not going to get a GM coming down on you and telling you that you are being mean or doing something unintended and suspending your account. Whatever you can come up with, you can try. You just might be able to pull it off.
Fly safe
People say EVE is a great game if you're a creative person or if you can make your own fun. To me, that's bad game design. The game itself should be fun without requiring me to work in order to make it so.
If you feel that way EVE is perfectly functional as a pve mission grind followed by incursion grinding. That kind of gameplay is not interesting to me so I did not mention it. I do think that EVE is a bit subpar in those areas anyways, but then again it seems that most games these days are.
Also some websites that have helped me get more out of eve:
http://eve-survival.org/wikka.php?wakka=HomePage - Mission Guides
http://eve-radio.com/ - good community, always nice to see and hear what is going on elsewhere
http://www.mmorpg.com/gamelist.cfm/game/14/feature/6031 - mmorpg.com's own White Tree is my favorite source for EVE stories, as well as a very experienced and well known member of the community
http://wiki.eveonline.com - I love reading up on the history and past politics of EVE
http://www.eveonline.com/background/potw/ - short stories in official EVE lore - I love reading these, they really help the world to come alive for me. I think they should be accessable directly from "show info" in game
I was going to hold off resubbing due to the approaching TSW release, but after shelling out for a holiday, i think i need to save money lol.
I'll resub tomorrow night, so that will give me the best chance to catch others online and get balls deep in the game again.
I'm hoping i didn't go on a suicide rampage and spend all my ISK and blow all my ships before i left last time :O
The new Tornado class battlecrusier is a gankers dream, With Lvl 5 skills in projectile guns and minmatar battleship it can do 13,000 damage a volley with large projectile turrets. It can do 2 volleys (before CONCORD pwns you) in a 0.5 or 0.6 security system provided that you are not right next to some CONCORD ships. Really good for ganking mining barges that might have shiny items on them. Additionally they kill industrial hauler ships scary easy (these ships sometimes carry items far far exceeding the value of said ship) you should have a cargo scanner handy to see if ships are worth welping a 60Mil battlecruiser. Note that you no longer get insurance after suicide ganking other players.
I'm Caldari, so my ships of choice were:
Crow (inty)
Flycatcher (interdictor)
Drake (tank)
The Caracal HAC that had like 80km range with boosters or something daft.
Raven (although rarely flew one as i didn't feel i had the support skills levelled enough for it)
My plan when i first started was to fly the fastest ships and i always wanted flycacther, as it looked amazing, fast as shit off a shovel and you could whack 5/6 missile launchers in it. I know it is or was crap, but i think thats my fave ship and i'll prob get it again - also cheapish to lose.
This probably sums up why I can never get into Eve as well. I like FFA PvP and I like space sci-fi but the gameplay and specially combat with two icons taking turns firing at each other and activating shields/repairers is so mindnumbingly boring that I cant just get into it regardless of its other aspects.
Heck even STO has more fun combat than this.
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This is why I like SQO. I am a person not a ship. I can board other players ships, beam or shuttle down to planets, and I can have other players doing all of this with me, adn mining still might be sitting around for 5 minutes but at least you have someone on the bridge with you to BS with.
"I am not in a server with Gankers...THEY ARE IN A SERVER WITH ME!!!"
The people EVE is targeted for enjoy doing work as part of the gameplay. It's not bad design, just design not intended to appeal to a broad audience.
I wish more developers would take this approach and narrow the focus down of their games so that they make a small subset more or less happy instead of a large number of folks all wishing their games were something else.
Am I saying EVE players are totally happy with how things are, of course not. But they almost all agree the game is just what they are looking for and rarely stray from the field.
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Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
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"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
Can you light a beacon and have Massive Manhattan-sized ships and supercarriers jump thru said beacon and have a larger enemy fleet shit in their pants before going "United States" on their arses?
Heh , there is the reason why most MMO's fail. The type of mentality that enrages any Dev.
EVE-Online is all about team work , now if you think your gonna have fun playing by yourself then leave EVE-Online immediately because you'll find nothing fun being by yourself. Unlike every other MMO where Devs set it on easy mode for anyone to solo max level inside of a week , CCP approach to EVE-Online is completely the reverse as in : You play by our rules or go play something else.
An example of your mining experience : The average miner / scientist in EVE-Online will mine to create modules / Ammo to then resale or keep for personal use , as their training in science keeps going up they are able to invent blueprints for stronger modules / ammo / ships that sale for alot of money. That's just a basic run down if you take the time to investigate what EVE-Online is all about , because if you think CCP will hand you everything on a silver plater , you better have a load of kleenex's by your side for your QQ because it won't happen anytime soon. I'm a proud EVE-Online CCP supporter / player since early 2006 and I enjoy every freaking day of it and so do my friends!
As far as PvE / PvP in EVE-Online your missing the whole picture. But I took the time to know what EVE was all about and it did take me a few months to fully grasp some concepts , and year after year they release new content to keep even the old timers busy. So take the time and know your game before playing it , if patience isn't you thing , then EVE-Online isn't your MMO so move on to something else.
I have a great many problems with EVE that would take far too much room and time to list...
But I'll simply say that I agree with the OP, I spent and paid for a total of I believe 4 months of EvE Online subscription, got into some 0.0 and wormhole stuff and up to a pretty well fit battlecruiser etc. Was in a corp, had some vets with all the jump stuff and capital ships etc.
And I just.. couldn't find the fun. Sure, there were some fun moments, but few and far between - and what occupied that space in between was grinding, boredom, tedium, and frustration.
I guess my "ideal" MMO is much more like UO was post-Trammel (especially during the Factions warfare)
EvE, for all its complexity, simply lacked the same sense of adventure and exploration and fun that UO had all those years ago.
I wouldn't classify EvE as a "good" game from a objective design stand point, but it's not bad and from a purely subjective viewpoint it is certainly not for me.
Crow would probably be most useful in small scale pvp where it would act as tackle, not to viable in large fights because it pops easy.
Flycatcher I've seen in small, medium and big fights. You almost always need someone to drop a bubble somewhere, though its big brother the Onyx is probably preferred.
Drake, when all else is not an option bring a drake (pvp fit tho) its just as good as the more popular hurricane and it is more widely used in large fights at range.
Tech 2 Caracal only really viable in a small gang. It can't solo like its Minmatar counterpart the Vagabond. I haven't really seen it used much anywhere really, there are probably better heavy assault cruiser options such as the Vaga.
Raven... is a mission boat. Really the only thing its good for, which also makes it great for farming anomalies up to havens.
As a MMO game EVE forces interaction with other players in various ways and the more social you are in eve the more rewarding the game will be. Whether it be in gang warfare, market manipulation, or good old fashion griefing it's much more rewarding if you can tell another person your character's story; which brings me to the seocnd half of MMORPG.
As with any good RPG the game play in eve is the story you create for your character and how you make your character's story evolve. What you are calling gameplay is just a few of the tools you can use to achieve your toon's story.
What's that? A game that gets you to play with other gamers sometimes against your or their will and allows you to tell your character's unique and possibly compelling story to other people? All MMORPGs should be like that and not force your character thru the storyline cookie cutter that makes everyone's story is the exact same so nobody wants to hear about yours - if that's the case - why play a MMORPG at all? The entire point to a MMORPG is to express yourself to other players thru role play and EVE online does a great job of allowing that.
Perhaps you should focus more on the other people you share the game world with and less time on hanging out with boring old NPCs.
I promise you'll have more fun.
"Lectroids? Planet 10? Nuclear extortion? A girl named "John"?