Welcome to episode 233 of 'Let's scratch at the floorboards and search desperately to find something else that's bad about SWTOR'!
But seriously, I don't understand how people can say this.
For years now it's been a constant complaint that MMOs offer us a wall of text and quest after endless quest.
Bioware dare to do something different. They bring the story in to the MMO complete with interesting cutscenes that let you develop a personality for your character. Your character has come to life before your eyes. he speaks. He gestures. He replies, sarcastically.
A complaint resurfaces. People are now annoyed that they have to sit and listn to their characters talking to them. It ruins immersion.
MMO developers across the land throw their arms to the skies and cry God for mercy!
Now a little thing about immersion. For me immersion is hugely complimented by imagination. If you don't have, or are unwilling to use your imagination then you will never feel like you are in these worlds. So many people appear to lack this human characteristic because they complain time after time about immersion.
Of course it could just be because people are so desperate to complain about this game. A point that brings me fully back to my first line. I'm in shock and awe that this thread exists.
Welcome to episode 233 of 'Let's scratch at the floorboards and search desperately to find something else that's bad about SWTOR'!
But seriously, I don't understand how people can say this.
For years now it's been a constant complaint that MMOs offer us a wall of text and quest after endless quest.
Bioware dare to do something different. They bring the story in to the MMO complete with interesting cutscenes that let you develop a personality for your character. Your character has come to life before your eyes. he speaks. He gestures. He replies, sarcastically.
A complaint resurfaces. People are now annoyed that they have to sit and listn to their characters talking to them. It ruins immersion.
MMO developers across the land throw their arms to the skies and cry God for mercy!
Now a little thing about immersion. For me immersion is hugely complimented by imagination. If you don't have, or are unwilling to use your imagination then you will never feel like you are in this worlds. So many people appear to lack this human characteristic because they complaint ime after time about immersion.
Of course it could just be because people are so desperate to complain about this game. A point that brings me fully back to my first line. I'm in shock and awe that this thread exists.
As mentioned before it's not about the issues being brought up. It's about SWTOR hurting peoples feelings for not being the game they wanted. Complaining is just a means to convey it.
In every previous MMO I've played I felt that my character was basically my avatar in the game world. He represented me. He spoke when I typed something in and he said the things I wanted him to say.
Oddly enough the cut-scenes in this game make me feel far less connected to my character. It's more like watching TV. I don't feel like the character on the TV screen is me, nor do I really feel like the character in the SWTOR cartoons is me.
Here's an example. On some random quest my Sith might be sent out to kill some Rebels. I click on the conversation wheel to say "OK, I'll do it". Then my character says something completely lame and over the top like "I'll hunt down and kill every last Republic scum on this planet until the streets run red with blood." Stupid and childish! I would never say something so dopey and cliche. I say to myself "my guy is an idiot."
This is not good for the immersion. And I guess this is why I'm getting very tired of the cut-scenes. Once the novelty wears off I find that they don't draw me into the game as much as they push me away.
+1
Dialogues good.
Cutscenes & HOW dialogues are done = bad.
More dialogue options, choosing EXACTLY what will be said. <-- that would be immersive.
Fallout 2 & Baldur's Gate 2 style.
Current DA2 / ME2 Swtor style is anti-immersive for me.
I crashed a huge ship into a moon last night as a dark side choice. Got a follow up email an hour later with a news blip mentioning the crash and how in 6 months time the tides on the planet below were going to rise and wipe out all life and cities up to a certain elevation and that the planet was now in a state of emergency and would start evacuation those areas.
Pretty immersive to me. Can't wait to play a second character and go with the light side choice and see how that pans out. Quite compelling.
I believe the complaint the OP has is about cutscene though and not Voice Overs. VO's i think would have been generally more accepted if streamlined but as the OP and myself point out taking all control away from you until you listen to someone and making a choice breaks up whatever rhythm you had going. The other thing that people who like swtor say alot is "you dont like it then gtfo" but i think if this happened too much then they would find themselves in a niche game with a low population just like alot of games before it.
Welcome to episode 233 of 'Let's scratch at the floorboards and search desperately to find something else that's bad about SWTOR'!
But seriously, I don't understand how people can say this.
For years now it's been a constant complaint that MMOs offer us a wall of text and quest after endless quest.
Bioware dare to do something different. They bring the story in to the MMO complete with interesting cutscenes that let you develop a personality for your character. Your character has come to life before your eyes. he speaks. He gestures. He replies, sarcastically.
A complaint resurfaces. People are now annoyed that they have to sit and listn to their characters talking to them. It ruins immersion.
MMO developers across the land throw their arms to the skies and cry God for mercy!
Now a little thing about immersion. For me immersion is hugely complimented by imagination. If you don't have, or are unwilling to use your imagination then you will never feel like you are in this worlds. So many people appear to lack this human characteristic because they complaint ime after time about immersion.
Of course it could just be because people are so desperate to complain about this game. A point that brings me fully back to my first line. I'm in shock and awe that this thread exists.
As mentioned before it's not about the issues being brought up. It's about SWTOR hurting peoples feelings for not being the game they wanted. Complaining is just a means to convey it.
If you really think about it, what are the chances of an MMO being everything you want in a game? Every single MMO will have some things people like and some things people don't like.
The problem at heart is people getting too attached to what appears to be part of the game in development. I followed Vanguard heavily throughout its development and was shocked that it was so different from what Brad McQuaid had been saying.
I only had myself to blame.
Why? Because there is a common sentence that comes out of the mouths of developers time after time during the development cycle of an MMO.
'Subject to change'
Or it may be 'work in progress', even if that's slightly different.
Because MMos are subject to change or a work in progress. They take years to develop. Ideas are thought of. Ideas don't work. New ideas have to implemented. The game changes and progresses.
Read and digest, young padawan. Sit back and you'll be less disappointed when 'possibility A' and 'maybe B' don't make it in to the full game. Or if you want to follow a game's development then understand the one overriding sentence that should be etched into your synapses...
I believe the complaint the OP has is about cutscene though and not Voice Overs. VO's i think would have been generally more accepted if streamlined but as the OP and myself point out taking all control away from you until you listen to someone and making a choice breaks up whatever rhythm you had going. The other thing that people who like swtor say alot is "you dont like it then gtfo" but i think if this happened too much then they would find themselves in a niche game with a low population just like alot of games before it.
You must have hated Mass Effect, Dragon Age, and the KOTOR series. singleplayer games but the exact same issue you complain about.
I believe the complaint the OP has is about cutscene though and not Voice Overs. VO's i think would have been generally more accepted if streamlined but as the OP and myself point out taking all control away from you until you listen to someone and making a choice breaks up whatever rhythm you had going. The other thing that people who like swtor say alot is "you dont like it then gtfo" but i think if this happened too much then they would find themselves in a niche game with a low population just like alot of games before it.
You must have hated Mass Effect, Dragon Age, and the KOTOR series. singleplayer games but the exact same issue you complain about.
I think in single-player games, its not nearly as important to feel connected to our character. That's why you see less customization, and some don't even have any at all. It's much more acceptable to play as someone else's character, in someone else's story, because that's more what single-player games tend to be all about.
When I want a single-player story, I'll play a single-player game. When I play an MMO, I want a massively multiplayer world.
I believe the complaint the OP has is about cutscene though and not Voice Overs. VO's i think would have been generally more accepted if streamlined but as the OP and myself point out taking all control away from you until you listen to someone and making a choice breaks up whatever rhythm you had going. The other thing that people who like swtor say alot is "you dont like it then gtfo" but i think if this happened too much then they would find themselves in a niche game with a low population just like alot of games before it.
You must have hated Mass Effect, Dragon Age, and the KOTOR series. singleplayer games but the exact same issue you complain about.
I think in single-player games, its not nearly as important to feel connected to our character. That's why you see less customization, and some don't even have any at all. It's much more acceptable to play as someone else's character, in someone else's story, because that's more what single-player games tend to be all about.
I can understand that but take a look at the OP's complaint. I'll just quote it. This happens in all Bioware games. Immersion is about suspend disbelief. If you can't be immersed in SWTOR I seriously doubt you can be in games such as Mass Effect. It's pretty much the same deal you are getting. You have less choices to define yourself in Bioware games. This is true for all of them MMOs or Singleplayer games alike. If that's a problem might as well avoid them all
"Here's an example. On some random quest my Sith might be sent out to kill some Rebels. I click on the conversation wheel to say "OK, I'll do it". Then my character says something completely lame and over the top like "I'll hunt down and kill every last Republic scum on this planet until the streets run red with blood." Stupid and childish! I would never say something so dopey and cliche. I say to myself "my guy is an idiot."
This is not good for the immersion. And I guess this is why I'm getting very tired of the cut-scenes. Once the novelty wears off I find that they don't draw me into the game as much as they push me away "
No the issue here is the OP being tired of a whole slew of issues about MMOs in general and this is just another rant in that same direction.
Anyone who thinks cut scenes are more immersive than text simply lacks imagination. If you require "immersion" to be spoon-fed to you through a pre-recorded cuscene, then you have no clue what "immersion" really is in the first place. Next you'll be saying books aren't "immersive" enough without pictures.
Anyone who thinks cut scenes are more immersive than text simply lacks imagination. If you require "immersion" to be spoon-fed to you through a pre-recorded cuscene, then you have no clue what "immersion" really is in the first place. Next you'll be saying books aren't "immersive" enough without pictures.
The class cut scenes in TOR are more immersive than the typical text you find in any MMO. Let's be honest here, 90% of text in MMO's is unimaginative dribble. Context is key to the point you're trying to make.
Second video-game RPG's have a different form of "immersion" than books. Books are about imagination, completely about imagination, writers write in the manner they do to give a mental image. You don't need this device in a video-game.
Third how in the same paragraph, can you say "cut-scenes are not immersive" and in turn say books are? If cut scenes are not immersive due to being "spoon-fed" to you, and "pre-recorded", what does that say about books? Are they not "spoon-fed" to you and pre-written?
To take this point a little deeper aren't the cut-scenes in TOR or other Bioware games supposed to simulate a person talking to you? How is that less immersive than some guy spitting text at you?
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson
Anyone who thinks cut scenes are more immersive than text simply lacks imagination. If you require "immersion" to be spoon-fed to you through a pre-recorded cuscene, then you have no clue what "immersion" really is in the first place. Next you'll be saying books aren't "immersive" enough without pictures.
I take it you dislike all visual media.
Oh, absolutely. I browse the internet via telnet and parse the markup from memory.
I think the OP was closer to RP than a scripted chose 1 of 3 choices type situation. Believing from a first person view that your avatar is an extension of you or whatever he/she is an extension is RPing.
Just playing as yourself is pretty much the opposite of Role Playing.
I seem to remember Aion having very well done cut scenes (shame the game was a bit crappy after half way).
You would get the cut scene at the start of a big quest, when you finished a large group quest, or went into a new area, other than that it was just the normal text quests.
Here's an example. On some random quest my Sith might be sent out to kill some Rebels. I click on the conversation wheel to say "OK, I'll do it". Then my character says something completely lame and over the top like "I'll hunt down and kill every last Republic scum on this planet until the streets run red with blood." Stupid and childish! I would never say something so dopey and cliche. I say to myself "my guy is an idiot."
Haven't played swtor, but that did bug the hell out of me in ME so I get where you're coming from
Comments
Welcome to episode 233 of 'Let's scratch at the floorboards and search desperately to find something else that's bad about SWTOR'!
But seriously, I don't understand how people can say this.
For years now it's been a constant complaint that MMOs offer us a wall of text and quest after endless quest.
Bioware dare to do something different. They bring the story in to the MMO complete with interesting cutscenes that let you develop a personality for your character. Your character has come to life before your eyes. he speaks. He gestures. He replies, sarcastically.
A complaint resurfaces. People are now annoyed that they have to sit and listn to their characters talking to them. It ruins immersion.
MMO developers across the land throw their arms to the skies and cry God for mercy!
Now a little thing about immersion. For me immersion is hugely complimented by imagination. If you don't have, or are unwilling to use your imagination then you will never feel like you are in these worlds. So many people appear to lack this human characteristic because they complain time after time about immersion.
Of course it could just be because people are so desperate to complain about this game. A point that brings me fully back to my first line. I'm in shock and awe that this thread exists.
.
As mentioned before it's not about the issues being brought up. It's about SWTOR hurting peoples feelings for not being the game they wanted. Complaining is just a means to convey it.
+1
Dialogues good.
Cutscenes & HOW dialogues are done = bad.
More dialogue options, choosing EXACTLY what will be said. <-- that would be immersive.
Fallout 2 & Baldur's Gate 2 style.
Current DA2 / ME2 Swtor style is anti-immersive for me.
I crashed a huge ship into a moon last night as a dark side choice. Got a follow up email an hour later with a news blip mentioning the crash and how in 6 months time the tides on the planet below were going to rise and wipe out all life and cities up to a certain elevation and that the planet was now in a state of emergency and would start evacuation those areas.
Pretty immersive to me. Can't wait to play a second character and go with the light side choice and see how that pans out. Quite compelling.
I believe the complaint the OP has is about cutscene though and not Voice Overs. VO's i think would have been generally more accepted if streamlined but as the OP and myself point out taking all control away from you until you listen to someone and making a choice breaks up whatever rhythm you had going. The other thing that people who like swtor say alot is "you dont like it then gtfo" but i think if this happened too much then they would find themselves in a niche game with a low population just like alot of games before it.
If you really think about it, what are the chances of an MMO being everything you want in a game? Every single MMO will have some things people like and some things people don't like.
The problem at heart is people getting too attached to what appears to be part of the game in development. I followed Vanguard heavily throughout its development and was shocked that it was so different from what Brad McQuaid had been saying.
I only had myself to blame.
Why? Because there is a common sentence that comes out of the mouths of developers time after time during the development cycle of an MMO.
'Subject to change'
Or it may be 'work in progress', even if that's slightly different.
Because MMos are subject to change or a work in progress. They take years to develop. Ideas are thought of. Ideas don't work. New ideas have to implemented. The game changes and progresses.
Read and digest, young padawan. Sit back and you'll be less disappointed when 'possibility A' and 'maybe B' don't make it in to the full game. Or if you want to follow a game's development then understand the one overriding sentence that should be etched into your synapses...
'Subject to change'
Because it will.
.
You must have hated Mass Effect, Dragon Age, and the KOTOR series. singleplayer games but the exact same issue you complain about.
I think in single-player games, its not nearly as important to feel connected to our character. That's why you see less customization, and some don't even have any at all. It's much more acceptable to play as someone else's character, in someone else's story, because that's more what single-player games tend to be all about.
When I want a single-player story, I'll play a single-player game. When I play an MMO, I want a massively multiplayer world.
I can understand that but take a look at the OP's complaint. I'll just quote it. This happens in all Bioware games. Immersion is about suspend disbelief. If you can't be immersed in SWTOR I seriously doubt you can be in games such as Mass Effect. It's pretty much the same deal you are getting. You have less choices to define yourself in Bioware games. This is true for all of them MMOs or Singleplayer games alike. If that's a problem might as well avoid them all
"Here's an example. On some random quest my Sith might be sent out to kill some Rebels. I click on the conversation wheel to say "OK, I'll do it". Then my character says something completely lame and over the top like "I'll hunt down and kill every last Republic scum on this planet until the streets run red with blood." Stupid and childish! I would never say something so dopey and cliche. I say to myself "my guy is an idiot."
This is not good for the immersion. And I guess this is why I'm getting very tired of the cut-scenes. Once the novelty wears off I find that they don't draw me into the game as much as they push me away "
No the issue here is the OP being tired of a whole slew of issues about MMOs in general and this is just another rant in that same direction.
I take it you dislike all visual media.
The class cut scenes in TOR are more immersive than the typical text you find in any MMO. Let's be honest here, 90% of text in MMO's is unimaginative dribble. Context is key to the point you're trying to make.
Second video-game RPG's have a different form of "immersion" than books. Books are about imagination, completely about imagination, writers write in the manner they do to give a mental image. You don't need this device in a video-game.
Third how in the same paragraph, can you say "cut-scenes are not immersive" and in turn say books are? If cut scenes are not immersive due to being "spoon-fed" to you, and "pre-recorded", what does that say about books? Are they not "spoon-fed" to you and pre-written?
To take this point a little deeper aren't the cut-scenes in TOR or other Bioware games supposed to simulate a person talking to you? How is that less immersive than some guy spitting text at you?
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson
lol at people who say written quests are a 'wall of text'...
Anything on the internet over 2 sentences seems to be a 'wall of text' these days.
Oh, absolutely. I browse the internet via telnet and parse the markup from memory.
Just playing as yourself is pretty much the opposite of Role Playing.
I seem to remember Aion having very well done cut scenes (shame the game was a bit crappy after half way).
You would get the cut scene at the start of a big quest, when you finished a large group quest, or went into a new area, other than that it was just the normal text quests.
Haven't played swtor, but that did bug the hell out of me in ME so I get where you're coming from