The games that I want to play cannot support graphics like FE's. They are too complex/large.
we are talking in general terms.
I dont want to come off as a troll or something but there is something I have noticed about gamers in general they have extreeme tunnel vision.
Is FE deeper than WoW? yes
Is FE graphics better than WoW? yes
Based on that fact is it reasonable to suggest that its possible on some levels greater than what is currently happening to have better game play AND better graphics at the same time
yes?
I see what you're saying, but saying FE graphics are better than WoW is subjective. While I do like FE graphics, I know posters who don't.
The closest I think one could come to an objective comparison to graphics would be Skyrim vs. WoW. But even that suffers from the fact that WoW is stylized, and that in itself can be appealing to some (or a lot of people).
many of you seem completely hell bent on saying that we must only select between graphics and game play and I think tat is b**lshit. Sorry my specific examples do not pan my point out exactly perfectly.
Please do not respond to me, even if I ask you a question, its rhetorical.
The games that I want to play cannot support graphics like FE's. They are too complex/large.
we are talking in general terms.
I dont want to come off as a troll or something but there is something I have noticed about gamers in general they have extreeme tunnel vision.
Is FE deeper than WoW? yes
Is FE graphics better than WoW? yes
Based on that fact is it reasonable to suggest that its possible on some levels greater than what is currently happening to have better game play AND better graphics at the same time
yes?
I see what you're saying, but saying FE graphics are better than WoW is subjective. While I do like FE graphics, I know posters who don't.
The closest I think one could come to an objective comparison to graphics would be Skyrim vs. WoW. But even that suffers from the fact that WoW is stylized, and that in itself can be appealing to some (or a lot of people).
many of you seem completely hell bent on saying that we must only select between graphics and game play and I think tat is b**lshit. Sorry my specific examples do not pan my point out exactly perfectly.
Good examples would be more like Minecraft or Wurm or ATITD. Fallen Earth isn't one of the "sandbox" games that have that issue because the game itself has many more limits on whats possible than the kind of games people are talking about when they refer to the graphics vs gameplay issue.
OP I thhink you have mixed a couple of seperate issues and diluted your point for each. You obvioulsy like starquest online but I would bet a penny to a pound that the reason it is not doing as well as you think it should is not simply because it does not have state of the art graphics.
Anyway to answer your question gameplay trumps graphics every single time. I would say 'production values' are quite important but again if the gameplay is great a couple of shortcomings there can be overlooked. If you have a poorly implemented 'generic' MMO with average to low production values your game is not going to do well (even if it does have 'state of the art' voice overs ...sorry couldn't resist a dig).
Another thing (imho) fairly few people really are begging for a real old school game (maybe that is why your game is not doing quite so well). Sure we are all a bit nostalgic for those days but really there was a lot of game mechanics that where absolute cahcah, endless grinding, camping for a day and a half straight (to get jboots), staring at a blank screen for 15 minutes while you meditated for manna. That's not to say I am no sick of WoWalikes but real old school will always be niche.
The main issue game dev face is this. Console tech vs 32bit tech vs 64 bit tech etc etc etc.they have to live with ton of compromise.if tomorrow a game maker limited itself to w7 64 bit. Ie9 etc that game maker would have the smoothest lunch and game possible but most are greedy they want widest possible market so ton of stuff run in compatibility mode.and this is where ton problem arise
The games that I want to play cannot support graphics like FE's. They are too complex/large.
we are talking in general terms.
I dont want to come off as a troll or something but there is something I have noticed about gamers in general they have extreeme tunnel vision.
Is FE deeper than WoW? yes
Is FE graphics better than WoW? yes
Based on that fact is it reasonable to suggest that its possible on some levels greater than what is currently happening to have better game play AND better graphics at the same time
yes?
I see what you're saying, but saying FE graphics are better than WoW is subjective. While I do like FE graphics, I know posters who don't.
The closest I think one could come to an objective comparison to graphics would be Skyrim vs. WoW. But even that suffers from the fact that WoW is stylized, and that in itself can be appealing to some (or a lot of people).
many of you seem completely hell bent on saying that we must only select between graphics and game play and I think tat is b**lshit. Sorry my specific examples do not pan my point out exactly perfectly.
Good examples would be more like Minecraft or Wurm or ATITD. Fallen Earth isn't one of the "sandbox" games that have that issue because the game itself has many more limits on whats possible than the kind of games people are talking about when they refer to the graphics vs gameplay issue.
Like I say many of you are hell bent convinced that its not possible to have good graphics and good game play at the same time and I think that is certifiable b*llshit.
I am off to the next topic
P.S. Oh and by the way I am a programmer by trade. Been doing it for 8 years now. and I still say this is &()) sh*t
Please do not respond to me, even if I ask you a question, its rhetorical.
OP I thhink you have mixed a couple of seperate issues and diluted your point for each. You obvioulsy like starquest online but I would bet a penny to a pound that the reason it is not doing as well as you think it should is not simply because it does not have state of the art graphics.
Anyway to answer your question gameplay trumps graphics every single time. I would say 'production values' are quite important but again if the gameplay is great a couple of shortcomings there can be overlooked. If you have a poorly implemented 'generic' MMO with average to low production values your game is not going to do well (even if it does have 'state of the art' voice overs ...sorry couldn't resist a dig).
Another thing (imho) fairly few people really are begging for a real old school game (maybe that is why your game is not doing quite so well). Sure we are all a bit nostalgic for those days but really there was a lot of game mechanics that where absolute cahcah, endless grinding, camping for a day and a half straight (to get jboots), staring at a blank screen for 15 minutes while you meditated for manna. That's not to say I am no sick of WoWalikes but real MMOs will always be niche.
The games that I want to play cannot support graphics like FE's. They are too complex/large.
we are talking in general terms.
I dont want to come off as a troll or something but there is something I have noticed about gamers in general they have extreeme tunnel vision.
Is FE deeper than WoW? yes
Is FE graphics better than WoW? yes
Based on that fact is it reasonable to suggest that its possible on some levels greater than what is currently happening to have better game play AND better graphics at the same time
yes?
I see what you're saying, but saying FE graphics are better than WoW is subjective. While I do like FE graphics, I know posters who don't.
The closest I think one could come to an objective comparison to graphics would be Skyrim vs. WoW. But even that suffers from the fact that WoW is stylized, and that in itself can be appealing to some (or a lot of people).
many of you seem completely hell bent on saying that we must only select between graphics and game play and I think tat is b**lshit. Sorry my specific examples do not pan my point out exactly perfectly.
Good examples would be more like Minecraft or Wurm or ATITD. Fallen Earth isn't one of the "sandbox" games that have that issue because the game itself has many more limits on whats possible than the kind of games people are talking about when they refer to the graphics vs gameplay issue.
Like I say many of you are hell bent convinced that its not possible to have good graphics and good game play at the same time and I think that is certifiable b*llshit.
I am off to the next topic
You make shitty arguments. Its not my fault you fail so hard. Minecraft CANNOT have FE level graphics. Its just not possible because of hardware limitations. I want to know, do you understand the server architecture that supports MMOs? I doubt it.
The games that I want to play cannot support graphics like FE's. They are too complex/large.
we are talking in general terms.
I dont want to come off as a troll or something but there is something I have noticed about gamers in general they have extreeme tunnel vision.
Is FE deeper than WoW? yes
Is FE graphics better than WoW? yes
Based on that fact is it reasonable to suggest that its possible on some levels greater than what is currently happening to have better game play AND better graphics at the same time
yes?
I see what you're saying, but saying FE graphics are better than WoW is subjective. While I do like FE graphics, I know posters who don't.
The closest I think one could come to an objective comparison to graphics would be Skyrim vs. WoW. But even that suffers from the fact that WoW is stylized, and that in itself can be appealing to some (or a lot of people).
many of you seem completely hell bent on saying that we must only select between graphics and game play and I think tat is b**lshit. Sorry my specific examples do not pan my point out exactly perfectly.
Good examples would be more like Minecraft or Wurm or ATITD. Fallen Earth isn't one of the "sandbox" games that have that issue because the game itself has many more limits on whats possible than the kind of games people are talking about when they refer to the graphics vs gameplay issue.
Like I say many of you are hell bent convinced that its not possible to have good graphics and good game play at the same time and I think that is certifiable b*llshit.
I am off to the next topic
You make shitty arguments. Its not my fault you fail so hard. Minecraft CANNOT have FE level graphics. Its just not possible because of hardware limitations. I want to know, do you understand the server architecture that supports MMOs? I doubt it.
it doesnt have to be minecraft vs WOW.
somewhere in between the two extreemes cant be reasonable?
Is FE graphics technically more demanding than WOW? YES
Is FE game play deeper than WOW? YES
and that is a free to play game for chr8st sake!
come on guys...please...
Please do not respond to me, even if I ask you a question, its rhetorical.
I'll take the standard WoW gameplay with great art and graphics. Don't care what some say, art direction and graphics mean alot to me. I can't play games that were made in 2011 and look like they were released in 2002.
Ya 8 bit engine might face big challenge with 32 bit graphic and if they ever invent 64 bit graphic for some new purpose that 8 bit engine will have it harder.yet that 8 bit game is one of the most popular. Grin
The games that I want to play cannot support graphics like FE's. They are too complex/large.
we are talking in general terms.
I dont want to come off as a troll or something but there is something I have noticed about gamers in general they have extreeme tunnel vision.
Is FE deeper than WoW? yes
Is FE graphics better than WoW? yes
Based on that fact is it reasonable to suggest that its possible on some levels greater than what is currently happening to have better game play AND better graphics at the same time
yes?
I see what you're saying, but saying FE graphics are better than WoW is subjective. While I do like FE graphics, I know posters who don't.
The closest I think one could come to an objective comparison to graphics would be Skyrim vs. WoW. But even that suffers from the fact that WoW is stylized, and that in itself can be appealing to some (or a lot of people).
many of you seem completely hell bent on saying that we must only select between graphics and game play and I think tat is b**lshit. Sorry my specific examples do not pan my point out exactly perfectly.
Good examples would be more like Minecraft or Wurm or ATITD. Fallen Earth isn't one of the "sandbox" games that have that issue because the game itself has many more limits on whats possible than the kind of games people are talking about when they refer to the graphics vs gameplay issue.
Like I say many of you are hell bent convinced that its not possible to have good graphics and good game play at the same time and I think that is certifiable b*llshit.
I am off to the next topic
You make shitty arguments. Its not my fault you fail so hard. Minecraft CANNOT have FE level graphics. Its just not possible because of hardware limitations. I want to know, do you understand the server architecture that supports MMOs? I doubt it.
it doesnt have to be minecraft vs WOW.
somewhere in between the two extreemes cant be reasonable?
Is FE graphics technically more demanding than WOW? YES
Is FE game play deeper than WOW? YES
and that is a free to play game for chr8st sake!
come on guys...please...
Fallen Earth is not that different from WoW. So yes you can make games that have good graphics and better than WoW gameplay. Bt not that have great graphics and epically awesome gameplay.
Opinion only: Stick figures work fine, if the game is fun enough to play.
Self-pity imprisons us in the walls of our own self-absorption. The whole world shrinks down to the size of our problem, and the more we dwell on it, the smaller we are and the larger the problem seems to grow.
Mephster i agree. I often look at wow or eq2 or ncsoft game that just went free to play a month ago and i try to like new game and i am like what happened?check this one of the most popular game recently lunched is loo.did you see the game simplistic to the Max yet it is very popular
Fallen Earth is not that different from WoW. So yes you can make games that have good graphics and better than WoW gameplay. Bt not that have great graphics and epically awesome gameplay.
I am starting to feel I would have been better served if I simply didnt use WoW as an example. Here this might be better.
Is the graphics in FE and Darkfall more technically demanding than Everquest 2? YES
Doesnt almost every single aspect of FE and Darkfall have more gaming depth that Everquest 2? Yes
As a programmer myself I will say this. It IS possible to make games with more depth and great graphics too. The only place where graphics have a direct impact to game play is when you have players allowed to change the physical landscape and when you have 50+ people (just a random number) on the screen at one time. This leaves questing. gear and crafting to be CRAZY deep with ZERO impact given the graphics engine.
Please do not respond to me, even if I ask you a question, its rhetorical.
As I play Astroempires and Erepublik, so I pick game play over graphics. I like RvR so even in bigger MMO's I understand there has to be a trade off in graphics for performance. Want it all and you'll end up with a pretty picture and horrible lag!
Fallen Earth is not that different from WoW. So yes you can make games that have good graphics and better than WoW gameplay. Bt not that have great graphics and epically awesome gameplay.
I am starting to feel I would have been better served if I simply didnt use WoW as an example. Here this might be better.
Is the graphics in FE and Darkfall more technically demanding than Everquest 2? YES
Doesnt almost every single aspect of FE and Darkfall have more gaming depth that Everquest 2? Yes
As a programmer myself I will say this. It IS possible to make games with more depth and great graphics too. The only place where graphics have a direct impact to game play is when you have players allowed to change the physical landscape and when you have 50+ people (just a random number) on the screen at one time. This leaves questing. gear and crafting to be CRAZY deep with ZERO impact given the graphics engine.
I haven't seen a deep questing system in a game in year. This might be because some retard decided to call every single TASK ever in MMOs a quest and then everyone copied him... WoW doesn't have one single quest in the whole game. Because casuals. Fallen Earth does not have deep gear or crafting, but maybe my standards are just too high.
Fallen Earth is not that different from WoW. So yes you can make games that have good graphics and better than WoW gameplay. Bt not that have great graphics and epically awesome gameplay.
I am starting to feel I would have been better served if I simply didnt use WoW as an example. Here this might be better.
Is the graphics in FE and Darkfall more technically demanding than Everquest 2? YES
Doesnt almost every single aspect of FE and Darkfall have more gaming depth that Everquest 2? Yes
As a programmer myself I will say this. It IS possible to make games with more depth and great graphics too. The only place where graphics have a direct impact to game play is when you have players allowed to change the physical landscape and when you have 50+ people (just a random number) on the screen at one time. This leaves questing. gear and crafting to be CRAZY deep with ZERO impact given the graphics engine.
I haven't seen a deep questing system in a game in year. This might be because some retard decided to call every single TASK ever in MMOs a quest and then everyone copied him... WoW doesn't have one single quest in the whole game. Because casuals. Fallen Earth does not have deep gear or crafting, but maybe my standards are just too high.
FE does have deep crafting compared to almost all the mainstream MMO's out there.
Never the less as I mentioned before I can explain with some level of expertise that the crafting engine of a game has ZERO impact on the graphics..ZERO you could have the most advanced crafting system ever created in a game and place it in the most advanced graphics engine and have zero impact on the graphics performances....zero.
Please do not respond to me, even if I ask you a question, its rhetorical.
A game can be as beautifull as possible, but if its boring as hell whose gonna stick around to play it?
There are however all types. Those that insist graphics is more important then fun/game playhave Aion and other really pretty grind games.
Everyone has their amount of tolerance. Take Salem for example itsd got some interesting ideas and I'd normally count myself as gameplay beats graphics any day I do however have a tolerance to bad graphics that draws the line at playing bobble head characters.
last I heard Wow is still the leader in subscriptions and it has the crappiest graphics of almost any MMO out so it can play on almost any low end system
I got to say more and more its about the game personality(emo) wow lac in that area. Like yes there are emo but they don't look. Them it is just word. Japan use Icon and when you see them you often end up grinning or really laughting
Gameplay is far more important than graphics but for me(and I think for a lot of people), there's a certain threshold where a game just doesn't pass even if its got great gameplay. It's not all about high poly counts and pixel shaders and blah blah blah, a game can be stylistically appealing. Look at Minecraft for instance, technically an awful looking game but people don't seem to mind because it has a style to it. I think some 2D games can get away with this as well, I loved Graal Online back in the day when it was free and it was essentially The Legend of Zelda: A Link to the Past Online. Just for comparison's sake, to me Tibia looks like crap.
What doesn't work for me are games that look like they come from the era of the dawning of 3D gaming or a couple of years after it... I'm talking about the stuff you would see on the Nintendo 64 or the original Playstation. The game also loses points if it runs like crap and looks like crap. For example, I'm convinced Second Life runs like crap regardless of the computer that's running it.
Now Playing: Mission Against Terror, Battlefield 3, Skyrim, Dark Souls, League of Legends, Minecraft, and the piano. =3
Graphics mean nothing to me. Some of my favorite online gaming experiences remain with the MUDs of yesteryear, and yes I still play them today. Some of my favorite graphical mmorpgs are still M59, UO, EQ1, AC1, DaoC, etc... all pretty graphically inferior by todays standards, and yet still my favorite to play, even today.
If a great mmorpg happens to have great graphics, then I say awesome! But that is so rare that I am very thankful that it really doesn't matter to me. I do try almost every mmorpg that comes out though, so if anyone ever manages to merge the two, I'll be there
Gameplay will almost always trump gfx. The Wii proved it. And the relative success levels of AoC vs. WoW confirm it.
That said, it's really a contextual thing. Graphic capabilities need to match the art and vice versa. If you're going for "ultra-realism", you better have all your bases covered. For example, Fallen Earth. Stills in the game look terrific, ultra-real and nicely rendered. But actually playing, the animations look super-stiff, with limb movement seeming completely detached from the rest of the body.
But if that was the case in a more cartoony looking game with odd looking characters, it wouldn't really stick out that much. We've spent our whole lives observing human movement, so when a game tries to create a realistic human rendering, even the tiniest mistakes look far worse than, say, watching a squat little Super Mario bouncing around with maybe only 8 points of limb manipulation.
Immersion can certainly happen with mediocre gfx. The 1998 Fallout games certainly had me glued in. A good game/book/movie will engage your imagination, and it in turn will "fill in the gaps" where gfx fail.
The games that I want to play cannot support graphics like FE's. They are too complex/large.
we are talking in general terms.
I dont want to come off as a troll or something but there is something I have noticed about gamers in general they have extreeme tunnel vision.
Is FE deeper than WoW? yes
Is FE graphics better than WoW? yes
Based on that fact is it reasonable to suggest that its possible on some levels greater than what is currently happening to have better game play AND better graphics at the same time
yes?
I see what you're saying, but saying FE graphics are better than WoW is subjective. While I do like FE graphics, I know posters who don't.
The closest I think one could come to an objective comparison to graphics would be Skyrim vs. WoW. But even that suffers from the fact that WoW is stylized, and that in itself can be appealing to some (or a lot of people).
many of you seem completely hell bent on saying that we must only select between graphics and game play and I think tat is b**lshit. Sorry my specific examples do not pan my point out exactly perfectly.
No. Not hellbent. Of course what you say is possible. I even gave an example: Skyrim. But it's naive to say that we don't have both because developers are lazy (and of course, you are the ONLY hard working programmer in the business...ammiright?)
By and large we don't have both because of these realities: 1) Economics. 2). Dearth of creativity.
An MMO like SWTOR that's spent $150 million is going to want to get its investment back. The safest way to do that is to follow a proven gameplay formula.
I also gave you an historical account of Elder Scrolls development, and why Skyrim NOW has both good gameplay and awesome graphics. It began with good gameplay in Daggerfall -- the graphics were so-so...it was that way, because they couldn't afford the infrastructure of artists at that time. But after their innovative gameplay was proven to be awesomely fun, and they made tons of cash, they were able to invest in hiring artists to improve the graphics -- the pinnical of which we see today in Skyrim.
I fully suspect that a game like Minecraft will someday have oustanding graphics. And instead of blocks, you'll have procedurally drawn pixels which will be manipulated on a grand scale. Imagine, for example, a Minecraft style game with Skyrim graphics? You mine into the side of a cliff and it actually LOOKS like you're mining into the side of a cliff. But that sort of marriage is years off.
Comments
many of you seem completely hell bent on saying that we must only select between graphics and game play and I think tat is b**lshit. Sorry my specific examples do not pan my point out exactly perfectly.
Please do not respond to me, even if I ask you a question, its rhetorical.
Please do not respond to me
Good examples would be more like Minecraft or Wurm or ATITD. Fallen Earth isn't one of the "sandbox" games that have that issue because the game itself has many more limits on whats possible than the kind of games people are talking about when they refer to the graphics vs gameplay issue.
OP I thhink you have mixed a couple of seperate issues and diluted your point for each. You obvioulsy like starquest online but I would bet a penny to a pound that the reason it is not doing as well as you think it should is not simply because it does not have state of the art graphics.
Anyway to answer your question gameplay trumps graphics every single time. I would say 'production values' are quite important but again if the gameplay is great a couple of shortcomings there can be overlooked. If you have a poorly implemented 'generic' MMO with average to low production values your game is not going to do well (even if it does have 'state of the art' voice overs ...sorry couldn't resist a dig).
Another thing (imho) fairly few people really are begging for a real old school game (maybe that is why your game is not doing quite so well). Sure we are all a bit nostalgic for those days but really there was a lot of game mechanics that where absolute cahcah, endless grinding, camping for a day and a half straight (to get jboots), staring at a blank screen for 15 minutes while you meditated for manna. That's not to say I am no sick of WoWalikes but real old school will always be niche.
Like I say many of you are hell bent convinced that its not possible to have good graphics and good game play at the same time and I think that is certifiable b*llshit.
I am off to the next topic
P.S. Oh and by the way I am a programmer by trade. Been doing it for 8 years now. and I still say this is &()) sh*t
Please do not respond to me, even if I ask you a question, its rhetorical.
Please do not respond to me
Fixed it for you.
You make shitty arguments. Its not my fault you fail so hard. Minecraft CANNOT have FE level graphics. Its just not possible because of hardware limitations. I want to know, do you understand the server architecture that supports MMOs? I doubt it.
it doesnt have to be minecraft vs WOW.
somewhere in between the two extreemes cant be reasonable?
Is FE graphics technically more demanding than WOW? YES
Is FE game play deeper than WOW? YES
and that is a free to play game for chr8st sake!
come on guys...please...
Please do not respond to me, even if I ask you a question, its rhetorical.
Please do not respond to me
I'll take the standard WoW gameplay with great art and graphics. Don't care what some say, art direction and graphics mean alot to me. I can't play games that were made in 2011 and look like they were released in 2002.
Grim Dawn, the next great action rpg!
http://www.grimdawn.com/
Fallen Earth is not that different from WoW. So yes you can make games that have good graphics and better than WoW gameplay. Bt not that have great graphics and epically awesome gameplay.
Opinion only: Stick figures work fine, if the game is fun enough to play.
Self-pity imprisons us in the walls of our own self-absorption. The whole world shrinks down to the size of our problem, and the more we dwell on it, the smaller we are and the larger the problem seems to grow.
I am starting to feel I would have been better served if I simply didnt use WoW as an example. Here this might be better.
Is the graphics in FE and Darkfall more technically demanding than Everquest 2? YES
Doesnt almost every single aspect of FE and Darkfall have more gaming depth that Everquest 2? Yes
As a programmer myself I will say this. It IS possible to make games with more depth and great graphics too. The only place where graphics have a direct impact to game play is when you have players allowed to change the physical landscape and when you have 50+ people (just a random number) on the screen at one time. This leaves questing. gear and crafting to be CRAZY deep with ZERO impact given the graphics engine.
Please do not respond to me, even if I ask you a question, its rhetorical.
Please do not respond to me
As I play Astroempires and Erepublik, so I pick game play over graphics. I like RvR so even in bigger MMO's I understand there has to be a trade off in graphics for performance. Want it all and you'll end up with a pretty picture and horrible lag!
I haven't seen a deep questing system in a game in year. This might be because some retard decided to call every single TASK ever in MMOs a quest and then everyone copied him... WoW doesn't have one single quest in the whole game. Because casuals. Fallen Earth does not have deep gear or crafting, but maybe my standards are just too high.
FE does have deep crafting compared to almost all the mainstream MMO's out there.
Never the less as I mentioned before I can explain with some level of expertise that the crafting engine of a game has ZERO impact on the graphics..ZERO you could have the most advanced crafting system ever created in a game and place it in the most advanced graphics engine and have zero impact on the graphics performances....zero.
Please do not respond to me, even if I ask you a question, its rhetorical.
Please do not respond to me
A game can be as beautifull as possible, but if its boring as hell whose gonna stick around to play it?
There are however all types. Those that insist graphics is more important then fun/game playhave Aion and other really pretty grind games.
Everyone has their amount of tolerance. Take Salem for example itsd got some interesting ideas and I'd normally count myself as gameplay beats graphics any day I do however have a tolerance to bad graphics that draws the line at playing bobble head characters.
last I heard Wow is still the leader in subscriptions and it has the crappiest graphics of almost any MMO out so it can play on almost any low end system
Gameplay is far more important than graphics but for me(and I think for a lot of people), there's a certain threshold where a game just doesn't pass even if its got great gameplay. It's not all about high poly counts and pixel shaders and blah blah blah, a game can be stylistically appealing. Look at Minecraft for instance, technically an awful looking game but people don't seem to mind because it has a style to it. I think some 2D games can get away with this as well, I loved Graal Online back in the day when it was free and it was essentially The Legend of Zelda: A Link to the Past Online. Just for comparison's sake, to me Tibia looks like crap.
What doesn't work for me are games that look like they come from the era of the dawning of 3D gaming or a couple of years after it... I'm talking about the stuff you would see on the Nintendo 64 or the original Playstation. The game also loses points if it runs like crap and looks like crap. For example, I'm convinced Second Life runs like crap regardless of the computer that's running it.
Now Playing: Mission Against Terror, Battlefield 3, Skyrim, Dark Souls, League of Legends, Minecraft, and the piano. =3
Visit my fail Youtube channel(don't leave me nasty messages!): http://www.youtube.com/user/Mirii471
Graphics mean nothing to me. Some of my favorite online gaming experiences remain with the MUDs of yesteryear, and yes I still play them today. Some of my favorite graphical mmorpgs are still M59, UO, EQ1, AC1, DaoC, etc... all pretty graphically inferior by todays standards, and yet still my favorite to play, even today.
If a great mmorpg happens to have great graphics, then I say awesome! But that is so rare that I am very thankful that it really doesn't matter to me. I do try almost every mmorpg that comes out though, so if anyone ever manages to merge the two, I'll be there
Gameplay will almost always trump gfx. The Wii proved it. And the relative success levels of AoC vs. WoW confirm it.
That said, it's really a contextual thing. Graphic capabilities need to match the art and vice versa. If you're going for "ultra-realism", you better have all your bases covered. For example, Fallen Earth. Stills in the game look terrific, ultra-real and nicely rendered. But actually playing, the animations look super-stiff, with limb movement seeming completely detached from the rest of the body.
But if that was the case in a more cartoony looking game with odd looking characters, it wouldn't really stick out that much. We've spent our whole lives observing human movement, so when a game tries to create a realistic human rendering, even the tiniest mistakes look far worse than, say, watching a squat little Super Mario bouncing around with maybe only 8 points of limb manipulation.
Immersion can certainly happen with mediocre gfx. The 1998 Fallout games certainly had me glued in. A good game/book/movie will engage your imagination, and it in turn will "fill in the gaps" where gfx fail.
No. Not hellbent. Of course what you say is possible. I even gave an example: Skyrim. But it's naive to say that we don't have both because developers are lazy (and of course, you are the ONLY hard working programmer in the business...ammiright?)
By and large we don't have both because of these realities: 1) Economics. 2). Dearth of creativity.
An MMO like SWTOR that's spent $150 million is going to want to get its investment back. The safest way to do that is to follow a proven gameplay formula.
I also gave you an historical account of Elder Scrolls development, and why Skyrim NOW has both good gameplay and awesome graphics. It began with good gameplay in Daggerfall -- the graphics were so-so...it was that way, because they couldn't afford the infrastructure of artists at that time. But after their innovative gameplay was proven to be awesomely fun, and they made tons of cash, they were able to invest in hiring artists to improve the graphics -- the pinnical of which we see today in Skyrim.
I fully suspect that a game like Minecraft will someday have oustanding graphics. And instead of blocks, you'll have procedurally drawn pixels which will be manipulated on a grand scale. Imagine, for example, a Minecraft style game with Skyrim graphics? You mine into the side of a cliff and it actually LOOKS like you're mining into the side of a cliff. But that sort of marriage is years off.
Old timers are as diverse and confused as new timers. A lot of mmo gamers ingeneral have unrealistic expectations.