I think the reason ToR is retaining its popularity is that it appeals to the the RPG audiance rather

Skymourne

Originally posted by sanosukex

Originally posted by ste2000

That's because you need to take off your rose tinted glasses, because people are complaining in droves on the official forums that the game feel empty and they hardly meet other players while playing, without taking into consideration that finding a group takes ages.

That's the reason I finally quit few days ago, it just felt like playing a single player game.

This game has the same problem of WAR, AoC, and Rift (the best out of those)..........many people happy the first month (me), few people happy the second (you), and a small amount of people happily playing the game after the third (you?).

 

I just went through Dromund Kaas with my sith sorc..  could not find a group for shadow spawn or Personal Challenge.. I was in that planet for 4+ hours last night and could not get a group.. I ran into several people tried to get them to help and group but they didn't even respond to me. I ran across a group of people doing shadow spawn and asked each one of them for an invite(there were 3) not one even responded to me and went on there way.. I was actually able to get all the pieces I needed for the quest by just following them but I couldn't beat the sith spawn thing at the end since its in an instanced area...

 pretty sad I can't find a group a month into a brand new MMO..  oh I also couldn't get a group for the black talon.. spammed chat for about 30 min then just gave up.

I'm imperial(obviously) in The shadowlands(was always longest que PVE server during pre-launch) and see no reason why I should be having problems getting groups i feel bad for republic....

I was thinking about all of this over dinner tonight and came back to check this thread and i really understand how you feel because i felt the same way and had the exact same experiences on a full server a week and a half ago.  I unsubbed on the 16th and began thinking about a lot of tings in the genre in general.  Honestly, i'm a bit worried for every single one of us that is a fan of this genre in general, because i keep thinking these game are going to get better each time...and they just don't.  I am afraid to even think a positive thought about an upcoming title, because i've now been burned so many times it's hard to trust a title or a single word that comes from the mouth of any developer.

We need a game to come up and slap the absolute hell out of us, completely out of nowhere.  I have no idea if or when that will happen. It's sad when following the genre and the development of games has become more fun than when the games launch. That is just sad.  I'd go back to older titles but i just cant force myself to, yet there's nothing to play at the moment either. It's a tad frustrating.

sanosukex

Originally posted by Skymourne

Originally posted by sanosukex

Originally posted by ste2000

That's because you need to take off your rose tinted glasses, because people are complaining in droves on the official forums that the game feel empty and they hardly meet other players while playing, without taking into consideration that finding a group takes ages.

That's the reason I finally quit few days ago, it just felt like playing a single player game.

This game has the same problem of WAR, AoC, and Rift (the best out of those)..........many people happy the first month (me), few people happy the second (you), and a small amount of people happily playing the game after the third (you?).

 

I just went through Dromund Kaas with my sith sorc..  could not find a group for shadow spawn or Personal Challenge.. I was in that planet for 4+ hours last night and could not get a group.. I ran into several people tried to get them to help and group but they didn't even respond to me. I ran across a group of people doing shadow spawn and asked each one of them for an invite(there were 3) not one even responded to me and went on there way.. I was actually able to get all the pieces I needed for the quest by just following them but I couldn't beat the sith spawn thing at the end since its in an instanced area...

 pretty sad I can't find a group a month into a brand new MMO..  oh I also couldn't get a group for the black talon.. spammed chat for about 30 min then just gave up.

I'm imperial(obviously) in The shadowlands(was always longest que PVE server during pre-launch) and see no reason why I should be having problems getting groups i feel bad for republic....

I was thinking about all of this over dinner tonight and came back to check this thread and i really understand how you feel because i felt the same way and had the exact same experiences on a full server a week and a half ago.  I unsubbed on the 16th and began thinking about a lot of tings in the genre in general.  Honestly, i'm a bit worried for every single one of us that is a fan of this genre in general, because i keep thinking these game are going to get better each time...and they just don't.  I am afraid to even think a positive thought about an upcoming title, because i've now been burned so many times it's hard to trust a title or a single word that comes from the mouth of any developer.

We need a game to come up and slap the absolute hell out of us, completely out of nowhere.  I have no idea if or when that will happen. It's sad when following the genre and the development of games has become more fun than when the games launch. That is just sad.  I'd go back to older titles but i just cant force myself to, yet there's nothing to play at the moment either. It's a tad frustrating.

i came to the same conclusion as you pretty much but resubbed to help a friend out.. but now my firends is hardly ever on.. i paid so and I enjoy some aspects of my sith sorc so ill probably stick with her to 50 but I don't know if Ill keep my sub after that.. I may try to get one of my republic alts to 50 but after that Ill probably just take off.. sad to cause I wanted this to be my new MMO home for the next few years but I just don't see that happening. The lack of attention to detail the overused dialogue, the vanilla class system.. just nothing to really keep me around once I hit 50.

Arathir86

SWTOR is like next years Treadmill model.

WoW's Treadmill had a speed dial, and 'terrain' modes and other fancy gadgets on it.

 

SWTOR just swapped all the fancy gadgets and dials for a TV screen which plays 8 different movies on it, as long as you keep walking... but as soon as the movies are over, you just hop off...

Deewe

Originally posted by Kreedz

SWTOR is like next years Treadmill model.

WoW's Treadmill had a speed dial, and 'terrain' modes and other fancy gadgets on it.

 

SWTOR just swapped all the fancy gadgets and dials for a TV screen which plays 8 different movies on it, as long as you keep walking... but as soon as the movies are over, you just hop off...

WoW is a 50 inches flatscreen TV with 7.1 surround system and a harmony remote.

TOR is a 60 inches CRT TV with lower end stereo speakers and an on/off only remote.

gervaise1

Originally posted by lizardbones

 

---

Originally posted by udorus

Very true but its their big new and massivly expensive mmo and it is not having a happy start, plus i would love to know how much they have promised lucas arts and how that deal is structured.

---

They've actually mentioned their deal with Lucas Arts. Once they've recouped the money spent on the game, LA gets 35% of the take.

 

That's actually what Wedbush said; EA said 'no comment' - 35% wouldn't surprise me although it could be based on some profit/risk equation. It won't be a simple 'after they have recouped' their costs - that would give no incentive for EA to control their costs. Do EA pay LucasArts or does that come out of the 'royalty'? What in fact did SWTOR cost?  Do you factor in what EA paid for Bioware/Pandemic - a part of the $620M price will have been attrbuted to 'expected' SWTOR success. And what about the $240M stock options?

Of course Wedbush also predicted 1.5M subs ......

Whatever the arrangement is it won't be cheap.

Sovrath

Originally posted by Skymourne

 

I've been watching this thread with interest over the past couple of days, and what i can see here are two vastly different camps.  People refer to it as Hater vs Fanboi ( which i despise deeply, no matter what game is being discussed ), Sandbox vs Themepark, but i'd just like to call it from my experience, Semi-Happy Customer that wants to stick with his/her game thus producing loyalty to it   vs.  Extremely Disgruntled Customer who essentially is highly disappointed with the game and would love to see it fall flat on it's face.  I have been in both of these boats, and after experiencing month 1 with some beta sprinkled in, realized that i'm in an entirely different boat than either of these.  

good for you, I also hate the whole "hater/fanboi" argument as I don't really think there are a whole lot of either but people who embody both likes and dislikes. I can list a huge slew of things that I think are wrong with SWToR but they would be things that I don't like and think are hugely lacking. None of them appear in that gentleman's post.

As an interesting point I met someone today who is playing swtor. I purposely asked him if any of those issues were "issues" with him and he was surprised. His answers were "no".

So "yes" there seem to be two camps of people  who are very much into their own satisfaction space and they play these games for different reasons (apparently).

Lastly, My girlfriend, who is NOT a gamer asked me about this thread. When I mentioned the whole lack of high detailed textures she laughed and said "come on, don't they remember the days of the old atari games... I mean 'space invaders man..."

enough said.

Sagasaint

Originally posted by RefMinor

Another premature thread, come back in summer.

nah, by April it will be obvious the depths this game has sunk into

Vesavius

Originally posted by maskedweasel

Originally posted by FlawSGI

Who's to say. I think I have seen a lot of the claims stating that drops would start at around the 2-3 month and not as many claiming within the first month. I woulda been the unsub before first payment myself. I think it was a little premature to claim substantial drop after first month but I also think it's premature to claim it will retain after only a month. The new car smell will wear off pretty fast, just quicker for some than others.

 

I will say this, TOR came out at a time wher there is a lack of options for some of those starving for a decent MMO so that will probably play more into retention than appeal to the RPG audience. I personally speak with my wallet and I was lucky enough to have a friend who got sick of the game and allowed me to play on his account as long as I forked over the $15 to keep the sub going for a month. Wasn't worth the money IMO but I am now one sub they will show as retention unfortunately.

The 2 - 3 month claims happened after SWTOR showed decent retention rates after the first month.  

 

c'mon Weasel... you know thats not true.

Plenty of folks, including me, said the truth would tell in the 3-6 month period. I saw next to no one saying it would die after 1 month.

Making out that people saying that now are revisionists who have been forced to change because they have been proved wrong is pretty disingenuous .

Distopia

Originally posted by vesavius

Originally posted by maskedweasel

Originally posted by FlawSGI

Who's to say. I think I have seen a lot of the claims stating that drops would start at around the 2-3 month and not as many claiming within the first month. I woulda been the unsub before first payment myself. I think it was a little premature to claim substantial drop after first month but I also think it's premature to claim it will retain after only a month. The new car smell will wear off pretty fast, just quicker for some than others.

 

I will say this, TOR came out at a time wher there is a lack of options for some of those starving for a decent MMO so that will probably play more into retention than appeal to the RPG audience. I personally speak with my wallet and I was lucky enough to have a friend who got sick of the game and allowed me to play on his account as long as I forked over the $15 to keep the sub going for a month. Wasn't worth the money IMO but I am now one sub they will show as retention unfortunately.

The 2 - 3 month claims happened after SWTOR showed decent retention rates after the first month.  

 

c'mon Weasel... you know thats not true.

Plenty of folks, including me, said the truth would tell in the 3-6 month period. I saw next to no one saying it would die after 1 month.

Making out that people saying that now are revisionists who have been forced to change because they have been proved wrong is pretty disingenuous .

Yes and plenty of others have said that the game only offered about a month of gaming. There's a lot of people on this site, as well as the net in general, just because something doesn't apply to you, doesn't mean it applies to no one.

sanosukex

Originally posted by Distopia

Originally posted by vesavius

Originally posted by maskedweasel

Originally posted by FlawSGI

Who's to say. I think I have seen a lot of the claims stating that drops would start at around the 2-3 month and not as many claiming within the first month. I woulda been the unsub before first payment myself. I think it was a little premature to claim substantial drop after first month but I also think it's premature to claim it will retain after only a month. The new car smell will wear off pretty fast, just quicker for some than others.

 

I will say this, TOR came out at a time wher there is a lack of options for some of those starving for a decent MMO so that will probably play more into retention than appeal to the RPG audience. I personally speak with my wallet and I was lucky enough to have a friend who got sick of the game and allowed me to play on his account as long as I forked over the $15 to keep the sub going for a month. Wasn't worth the money IMO but I am now one sub they will show as retention unfortunately.

The 2 - 3 month claims happened after SWTOR showed decent retention rates after the first month.  

 

c'mon Weasel... you know thats not true.

Plenty of folks, including me, said the truth would tell in the 3-6 month period. I saw next to no one saying it would die after 1 month.

Making out that people saying that now are revisionists who have been forced to change because they have been proved wrong is pretty disingenuous .

Yes and plenty of others have said that the game only offered about a month of gaming. There's a lot of people on this site, as well as the net in general, just because something doesn't apply to you, doesn't mean it applies to no one.

yea but even an extreme hater of this game can see it would probably appeal to many for a few months.. Also not everyone has time to blow through levels and hit 50 with one toon let alone multiple toons in one month. All the people with any history in these games could tell you this game would do fine for a few months but really like said before its going to be after months 3-6 to see what kind of lasting appeal this one will have

Phry

Originally posted by vesavius

Originally posted by maskedweasel

Originally posted by FlawSGI

Who's to say. I think I have seen a lot of the claims stating that drops would start at around the 2-3 month and not as many claiming within the first month. I woulda been the unsub before first payment myself. I think it was a little premature to claim substantial drop after first month but I also think it's premature to claim it will retain after only a month. The new car smell will wear off pretty fast, just quicker for some than others.

 

I will say this, TOR came out at a time wher there is a lack of options for some of those starving for a decent MMO so that will probably play more into retention than appeal to the RPG audience. I personally speak with my wallet and I was lucky enough to have a friend who got sick of the game and allowed me to play on his account as long as I forked over the $15 to keep the sub going for a month. Wasn't worth the money IMO but I am now one sub they will show as retention unfortunately.

The 2 - 3 month claims happened after SWTOR showed decent retention rates after the first month.  

 

c'mon Weasel... you know thats not true.

Plenty of folks, including me, said the truth would tell in the 3-6 month period. I saw next to no one saying it would die after 1 month.

Making out that people saying that now are revisionists who have been forced to change because they have been proved wrong is pretty disingenuous .

True enough, all the estimates i've seen in the run up to launch for the game were around the 3 month mark,  i doubt whether we'd need 6 months to see how well or not the game is doing, i think 3 months is more than sufficient. Given the low numbers seen in game though, i really have to wonder at what the current player retention rate is, i doubt its very good.

Vesavius

Originally posted by Distopia

Originally posted by vesavius

Originally posted by maskedweasel

Originally posted by FlawSGI

Who's to say. I think I have seen a lot of the claims stating that drops would start at around the 2-3 month and not as many claiming within the first month. I woulda been the unsub before first payment myself. I think it was a little premature to claim substantial drop after first month but I also think it's premature to claim it will retain after only a month. The new car smell will wear off pretty fast, just quicker for some than others.

 

I will say this, TOR came out at a time wher there is a lack of options for some of those starving for a decent MMO so that will probably play more into retention than appeal to the RPG audience. I personally speak with my wallet and I was lucky enough to have a friend who got sick of the game and allowed me to play on his account as long as I forked over the $15 to keep the sub going for a month. Wasn't worth the money IMO but I am now one sub they will show as retention unfortunately.

The 2 - 3 month claims happened after SWTOR showed decent retention rates after the first month.  

 

c'mon Weasel... you know thats not true.

Plenty of folks, including me, said the truth would tell in the 3-6 month period. I saw next to no one saying it would die after 1 month.

Making out that people saying that now are revisionists who have been forced to change because they have been proved wrong is pretty disingenuous .

Yes and plenty of others have said that the game only offered about a month of gaming. There's a lot of people on this site, as well as the net in general, just because something doesn't apply to you, doesn't mean it applies to no one.

 

lol... well, thanks for the life lesson there at the end, but I believe I wan't just talking about myself, obviously.

I said 'plenty of others' and 'next to no one' even. I made an observation as to what I saw in exactly the same threads as are being refered to here, and I was talking about the posts I saw back then in general.

It just suits some to make out that everyone who has a probelm with the game said it would die after a month in order to exaggerate a 'victory' I think.

UsualSuspect

Originally posted by Cavod

I wonder if those people have ever considered asking the question "are MMOs still for me or have I out grown them".

I asked myself that question after leaving EQ and finding nothing that appealed to me in the following few years, including WoW which was supposedly the 'Greatest MMO Evah!'. Well, I hated it. It wasn't until Lord of the Rings Online came out that I realised I hadn't out grown them, I just hadn't found one that was worth my time.

LOTRO was just fantastic when it first released, it was the only game since EQ that I levelled through the end game and hit a few raids. Now, it's all been dumbed down, a lot of the group quests are gone and the whole thing plays like a single player game, pretty much the same way that TOR does. I don't pay monthly for single player games so just because someone sticks an 'MMO' in the title doesn't mean I'm going to pay for that either.

Distopia

Originally posted by vesavius

Originally posted by Distopia

Yes and plenty of others have said that the game only offered about a month of gaming. There's a lot of people on this site, as well as the net in general, just because something doesn't apply to you, doesn't mean it applies to no one.

 

lol... well, thanks for the life lesson there at the end, but I believe I wan't just talking about myself, obviously.

I said 'plenty of others' and 'next to no one' even. I made an observation as to what I saw in exactly the same threads as are being refered to here, and I was talking about the posts I saw back then in general.

It just suits some to make out that everyone who has a probelm with the game said it would die after a month in order to exaggerate a 'victory' I think.

I'm just pointing out it has been said, doesn't mean people should actually put any stock into it.

fony

Originally posted by vesavius

Originally posted by Distopia

Originally posted by vesavius

Originally posted by maskedweasel

Originally posted by FlawSGI

Who's to say. I think I have seen a lot of the claims stating that drops would start at around the 2-3 month and not as many claiming within the first month. I woulda been the unsub before first payment myself. I think it was a little premature to claim substantial drop after first month but I also think it's premature to claim it will retain after only a month. The new car smell will wear off pretty fast, just quicker for some than others.

 

I will say this, TOR came out at a time wher there is a lack of options for some of those starving for a decent MMO so that will probably play more into retention than appeal to the RPG audience. I personally speak with my wallet and I was lucky enough to have a friend who got sick of the game and allowed me to play on his account as long as I forked over the $15 to keep the sub going for a month. Wasn't worth the money IMO but I am now one sub they will show as retention unfortunately.

The 2 - 3 month claims happened after SWTOR showed decent retention rates after the first month.  

 

c'mon Weasel... you know thats not true.

Plenty of folks, including me, said the truth would tell in the 3-6 month period. I saw next to no one saying it would die after 1 month.

Making out that people saying that now are revisionists who have been forced to change because they have been proved wrong is pretty disingenuous .

Yes and plenty of others have said that the game only offered about a month of gaming. There's a lot of people on this site, as well as the net in general, just because something doesn't apply to you, doesn't mean it applies to no one.

 

lol... well, thanks for the life lesson there at the end, but I believe I wan't just talking about myself, obviously.

I said 'plenty of others' and 'next to no one' even. I made an observation as to what I saw in exactly the same threads as are being refered to here, and I was talking about the posts I saw back then in general.

It just suits some to make out that everyone who has a probelm with the game said it would die after a month in order to exaggerate a 'victory' I think.

exactly, and you hooked one of 'em.

Distopia

Originally posted by fony

It just suits some to make out that everyone who has a probelm with the game said it would die after a month in order to exaggerate a 'victory' I think.

exactly, and you hooked one of 'em.

Where did I say anything about a victory of any kind?

sanosukex

Originally posted by Distopia

Originally posted by fony

It just suits some to make out that everyone who has a probelm with the game said it would die after a month in order to exaggerate a 'victory' I think.

exactly, and you hooked one of 'em.

Where did I say anything about a victory of any kind?

yea if anything Distopia has been one of the more open minded people on these forums

Distopia

Originally posted by sanosukex

Originally posted by Distopia

Originally posted by fony

It just suits some to make out that everyone who has a probelm with the game said it would die after a month in order to exaggerate a 'victory' I think.

exactly, and you hooked one of 'em.

Where did I say anything about a victory of any kind?

yea if anything Distopia has been one of the more open minded people on these forums

Thank you sir

Vesavius

Originally posted by Distopia

Originally posted by fony

It just suits some to make out that everyone who has a probelm with the game said it would die after a month in order to exaggerate a 'victory' I think.

exactly, and you hooked one of 'em.

Where did I say anything about a victory of any kind?

 

To be fair Dis, you just weighed in to defend someone else doing this, thats all. I wouldn't say I have seen you doing it yourself. I will let you know if I do though

Distopia

Originally posted by vesavius

Originally posted by Distopia

Originally posted by fony

It just suits some to make out that everyone who has a probelm with the game said it would die after a month in order to exaggerate a 'victory' I think.

exactly, and you hooked one of 'em.

Where did I say anything about a victory of any kind?

 

To be fair Dis, you just weighed in to defend someone else doing this, thats all. I wouldn't say I have seen you doing it yourself. I will let you know if I do though

Well we don't have to worry about that day coming :P. I'm pretty sure I'll be leaving in a month or two myself, if it takes that long.