Ok you have the minigames, that you can't even choose to which to queue for.
And then you have the capture flag Huttball. Try to feel heroic after having used your awesomesauce pesonally crafted Light Saber as a... glowing light bat. Thought I read somewhere Jedi don't participates in things like these. Might have been a typo.
Don't look for WORLD PvP, no can't be. Too many planets are one faction only and good luck to you to find opponents on others planets either.
The game was designed to scatter players in many instanced and non shared zones. No good world PvP can come out of it without a revamp.
BTW speak of silly design, locking players in two separate factions then, when you realize (told you so) the balance issue work on same faction battlegrounds.
COMPANIONS FOR THE WIN?
Honey Bunny:
Ever heard of the lone wolf? Well if you like pain, in single player mode, you can play the game without them and loose around 40% of your combat capacity. In short companions are required for solo mode making pet classes mandatory.
Now say you are a fan of pet classes. Then in multiplayer mode, unless your group leader is willing to drop a player for your pet: you can't play a pet class.
In a way they found a way to screw both the pet class lovers and haters at the same time.
Does it feel like an MMO?
Honey Bunny:
No, it feels like a co-op online game.
Usually the devs try to deliver a world that feels alive with NPC wandering around, critters here and there, day/night cycles to make you feel time is passing. SWTOR feels like a graveyard.
Then the player has to go through so many loading screens that you don't feel like evolving in a world but in a series of instances. And travelling is a huge painful time sink.
You can't either really skip the, on rails, story to level.
The design of the various planets either totally prevents exploration or does not invites players to do so.
There is no such thing as dressing your character. Most players of the same level look alike. You don't own your character look. Biowares delivers it to you.
There's no world PvP.
The game totally lacks RP tools and socialization incentives.
Where are the live events?
Why is it good, and why is it bad, and can't we call just get along?
Honey Bunny:
Players are fed up of having lacklustre half finished games delivered to them.
TOR budged is supposedly 4 times AoC/Aion one and 5-6 times LotRo, how could they possibly deliver such an unvenly polished and lacking product?
The engine is far from optimized and it runs lower graphics than others MMO.
The game lacks most basic features, from guild banks to LFD tool
The UI would barely fit the requirements for a console game.
So start delivering what you've been advertizing then we'll talk.
Gangster off.
P.S.: Please take all the above with a "grain of salt" the idea was to take the role of the gangster.
R.P.S.: On a side note I'm actually subscribed to the game but seriously hope it will be tremendeoously improved... fast.
Well heartless i guess you dont have to spend anymore money on any MMOs ever again because this IS the base model for them( and it was established 14 years ago). To go away from this would be busniess suicide,invest 10 million or more into a product that May or May Not be liked?. As far as it being linear , well it is...but i LOVE the story lines they have written for us and if you cant enjoy that then you really need to move on.
Deewe, how about you go learn some more before you start spouting stuff that isn't true. MMO's have been around longer than your precious wow, and even that game didn't have everything you claim when it was released.
Dewee big post, nice effort, but by reading that list its easy to understand that your MMO experience is very very limited... Not to mention that you demand stuff that many MMO players will totally reject.
Heh, I think it was a tiny bit unfair to Adam to have Suzie always in a responding position, so she could reference what *he* said, as well as make her point. For that reason, I'm judging Suzie a little harsher.
Bottom line, this is the first game since WoW that I got a character to max level in, and I've played AoC, Rift, Warhammer and Aion for months. I just never got sucked in by these ones. But SWTOR had me hook, line and sinker. Maybe because of the way they disguised the grind. Or maybe just because it's ****ing Star Wars.
Dewee big post, nice effort, but by reading that list its easy to understand that your MMO experience is very very limited... Not to mention that you demand stuff that many MMO players will totally reject.
I agree, 31 points, not a single one I believe is NEEDED in any game.
(DISCLAIMER - The use of the word YOU in the above post is not directed at any one person in particular, but towards those who fall into the category itself - there is no personal attack here, neither intentional nor implied.)
Deewe, how about you go learn some more before you start spouting stuff that isn't true. MMO's have been around longer than your precious wow, and even that game didn't have everything you claim when it was released.
Never said any/most MMO has everything in the list at lauch, check below
Originally posted by Kaocan
Originally posted by Candomble
Dewee big post, nice effort, but by reading that list its easy to understand that your MMO experience is very very limited... Not to mention that you demand stuff that many MMO players will totally reject.
I agree, 31 points, not a single one I believe is NEEDED in any game.
Pretty sure you know this already, still my MMO experience is not so bad thank you.
Then I nowhere stated every MMO players wanted the listed features. What I wrote down is:
Originally posted by Deewe
This game is, to my knowledge, the first to launch without any, more or less common, features of the below list:
**list snip**
So the real innovation was to launch without at least what was commonly accepted as good practices in others MMO.
Also lol @ the idiots saying this game is WoW. Get over it. Other games will come out, they aren't all WoW. Sorry idiots.
What exactly makes this different from WoW? Besides the setting, that is.
Definatly not the skills, boses the way a sprite mounts a vehicle.
Voice Acting,Lightsabers, and huttball.
All else complete copy.
That is ONLY opinion and nothing more. Not to mention that every single game released in at least the last five years is exactly like wow. Yes, including the upcoming GW2. You'll just have to deal with it. Btw, WoW is NOT the first game to do any of the features it does. Those features started with OTHER games, WoW just adopted them.
+1. Seriously I'm so tired about hearing this discussion. I dunno why I keep coming back to read more of it.
Well heartless i guess you dont have to spend anymore money on any MMOs ever again because this IS the base model for them( and it was established 14 years ago). To go away from this would be busniess suicide,invest 10 million or more into a product that May or May Not be liked?. As far as it being linear , well it is...but i LOVE the story lines they have written for us and if you cant enjoy that then you really need to move on.
This is absolutely not the base model for MMOs. Look at UO, EVE, Planetside, Darkfall, etc.
There is one MMO for which this model worked well and that is WoW. Every other MMO that tried to adopt a similar model has failed. The only one I can think of that did remotely well is Rift and even that could be argued. LOTRO, AoC, DDO, EQ2, CO, STO, DCUO... all went F2P. Aion is about to join them shortly. WAR, although not F2P is an absolute failure and I'm honestly surprised that it hasn't joined the rest of the bunch.
I think that after 7 years of trying and failing to cash in on WoW's success, some developers have finally realized that there is only room for one WoW in the genre. I, for one, am glad that at least some of the upcoming MMOs are attempting to do something different from this "base model" and I'm really looking forward to GW2, Firefall, ArcheAge and Planetside 2.
If the game is so terrible then why are you haters still discussing it? Go play your other game.
If it was terrible, I'd not bother. What makes this so tragic, is that it could have been a MUCH better game. With a few better design decisions, and more attention to later level polish, ToR would have been a quite good game. I fault some of the senior design teams fragmented vision, and also EA for forcing it to be pushed out too soon.
Eh, I haven't hit this site sense SWTOR release, only now because of a server update. I love it, I love everything about it. The last time I had this much fun was in EQ and DAOC, also being as addictive as then. No MMO sense has done such till now.
I have multiple level 50's and my guild is just starting to hit the end content along with pvp. People have complained about being bored already but many as myself still remain. I don't know any MMO that hasn't had this issue thou even WoW did and does.
In the end, the argument here about inovation is in the way you see inovation, have I ever played an MMO with so much depth and thought put into the story arc's ? Can't say I have, there have been games that attempted to do so in text based questing, but NOTHING that kept me wanting to play to see the end, nothing. This goes for many of my friends in my guild, we have had this discussion recently on this very topic.
Beyond the stories and cut-scenes, the combat is fun and responsive, the graphics are pleasing along with the sound. I enjoyed both aspects of the sith side and reb, from ambiance to just the over-all feel. Everything I mean everything comes down to preferance. For a game that has only been out for a month now, it's probably one of if not the smoothest launch I ever played. (not saying there are no bugs, but it's playable to the end non the less).
For me, the invoations are indeed small beyond looking at the "interative story" aspects. But as a person whom' enjoy's the RPG in the MMO this game has it all for me and many others. For some as seen here , it's not for everyone, but then the same can be said about World Of Warcraft, I didn't care for it after a month, but many did.
If people where expecting ground breaking concepts in this game, I think they read into something that never was. Everything Bioware put into this game was posted on their website prior to release. There are wishes to be added and ideas no doubt. There was also a new just recently release additional end game conent that was added a month after release. The game needed more end content and it was obvious now that it was in the works prior to launch. For me as a gamer, this is at least good news, that the company understand what it needs to do too keep the game going.
In the end, time will tell, but for the moment, they have me as a loyal player , it all depends (just like any MMO) what they do in the future to keep me entertained. For me at least, the initial investment was well worth the entertaiment I got out of it.
"The monster created isn't by the company that makes the game, it's by the fans that make it something it never was"
"In 1977 Lucas created Star Wars, and he saw that it was good."
In subsequent years he saw it again and decided to ruin it. There are two watchable Star Wars films. A New Hope and Empire. Return of the Jedi is re-hash crapola and the prequels are farcically and embarrassingly awful.
George Lucas -Absolutely succeeding in his quest to render the original Star Wars films devoid of their original charm. What a horses ass.
Well heartless i guess you dont have to spend anymore money on any MMOs ever again because this IS the base model for them( and it was established 14 years ago). To go away from this would be busniess suicide,invest 10 million or more into a product that May or May Not be liked?. As far as it being linear , well it is...but i LOVE the story lines they have written for us and if you cant enjoy that then you really need to move on.
This is absolutely not the base model for MMOs. Look at UO, EVE, Planetside, Darkfall, etc.
There is one MMO for which this model worked well and that is WoW. Every other MMO that tried to adopt a similar model has failed. The only one I can think of that did remotely well is Rift and even that could be argued. LOTRO, AoC, DDO, EQ2, CO, STO, DCUO... all went F2P. Aion is about to join them shortly. WAR, although not F2P is an absolute failure and I'm honestly surprised that it hasn't joined the rest of the bunch.
I think that after 7 years of trying and failing to cash in on WoW's success, some developers have finally realized that there is only room for one WoW in the genre. I, for one, am glad that at least some of the upcoming MMOs are attempting to do something different from this "base model" and I'm really looking forward to GW2, Firefall, ArcheAge and Planetside 2.
The best sandbox still cannot touch EQs numbers from its heyday, and WoW took it to another level. Throw in games like EQ2, FF11, LoTRO, Rift, and now TOR, and Devs would be flat ignorant for making a pure sandbox.
Asking Devs to make AAA sandbox titles is like trying to get fine dining on a McDonalds dollar menu budget.
Well heartless i guess you dont have to spend anymore money on any MMOs ever again because this IS the base model for them( and it was established 14 years ago). To go away from this would be busniess suicide,invest 10 million or more into a product that May or May Not be liked?. As far as it being linear , well it is...but i LOVE the story lines they have written for us and if you cant enjoy that then you really need to move on.
This is absolutely not the base model for MMOs. Look at UO, EVE, Planetside, Darkfall, etc.
There is one MMO for which this model worked well and that is WoW. Every other MMO that tried to adopt a similar model has failed. The only one I can think of that did remotely well is Rift and even that could be argued. LOTRO, AoC, DDO, EQ2, CO, STO, DCUO... all went F2P. Aion is about to join them shortly. WAR, although not F2P is an absolute failure and I'm honestly surprised that it hasn't joined the rest of the bunch.
I think that after 7 years of trying and failing to cash in on WoW's success, some developers have finally realized that there is only room for one WoW in the genre. I, for one, am glad that at least some of the upcoming MMOs are attempting to do something different from this "base model" and I'm really looking forward to GW2, Firefall, ArcheAge and Planetside 2.
The best sandbox still cannot touch EQs numbers from its heyday, and WoW took it to another level. Throw in games like EQ2, FF11, LoTRO, Rift, and now TOR, and Devs would be flat ignorant for making a pure sandbox.
WoW took NOTHING to another level. It took what every game had already done and made everything so casual friendly its almost vomit worthy.
Well heartless i guess you dont have to spend anymore money on any MMOs ever again because this IS the base model for them( and it was established 14 years ago). To go away from this would be busniess suicide,invest 10 million or more into a product that May or May Not be liked?. As far as it being linear , well it is...but i LOVE the story lines they have written for us and if you cant enjoy that then you really need to move on.
This is absolutely not the base model for MMOs. Look at UO, EVE, Planetside, Darkfall, etc.
There is one MMO for which this model worked well and that is WoW. Every other MMO that tried to adopt a similar model has failed. The only one I can think of that did remotely well is Rift and even that could be argued. LOTRO, AoC, DDO, EQ2, CO, STO, DCUO... all went F2P. Aion is about to join them shortly. WAR, although not F2P is an absolute failure and I'm honestly surprised that it hasn't joined the rest of the bunch.
I think that after 7 years of trying and failing to cash in on WoW's success, some developers have finally realized that there is only room for one WoW in the genre. I, for one, am glad that at least some of the upcoming MMOs are attempting to do something different from this "base model" and I'm really looking forward to GW2, Firefall, ArcheAge and Planetside 2.
The best sandbox still cannot touch EQs numbers from its heyday, and WoW took it to another level. Throw in games like EQ2, FF11, LoTRO, Rift, and now TOR, and Devs would be flat ignorant for making a pure sandbox.
The problem is that the MMORPG genre is sort of a niche market and one of the reasons the rest of the clones fail is because there is a finite number of players and obviously most of them are going to gravitate towards good or popular games. That's why you see games like WoW and old EQ with high subscribers, while everyone else is struggling and fighting over scraps. This is why most of the clones are either going or already went F2P.
One thing I have to say about sandbox games is that even though they are more niche than their theme park counterparts, there is still a large, virtually untapped market for them. EVE Online has about active 350,000 accounts. UO, in it's prime had about 250,000 on the official servers alone. There is also a staggering amount of emulated servers for UO but it would probably be impossible to determine the total amount of players on those servers. We can also take into account Skyrim. Yes, it's a single player game but it is a sandbox and it sold a huge amount of copies, showing that the market for sandbox games is there.
A true sandbox game will probably not work though. It will be too confusing for an average MMO player who is used to hand holding and being gated from zone to zone. A sandbox/themepark hybrid, on the other hand, should do the trick. Games like ArcheAge and to a lesser degree GW2 are a step in the right direction.
Well heartless i guess you dont have to spend anymore money on any MMOs ever again because this IS the base model for them( and it was established 14 years ago). To go away from this would be busniess suicide,invest 10 million or more into a product that May or May Not be liked?. As far as it being linear , well it is...but i LOVE the story lines they have written for us and if you cant enjoy that then you really need to move on.
This is absolutely not the base model for MMOs. Look at UO, EVE, Planetside, Darkfall, etc.
There is one MMO for which this model worked well and that is WoW. Every other MMO that tried to adopt a similar model has failed. The only one I can think of that did remotely well is Rift and even that could be argued. LOTRO, AoC, DDO, EQ2, CO, STO, DCUO... all went F2P. Aion is about to join them shortly. WAR, although not F2P is an absolute failure and I'm honestly surprised that it hasn't joined the rest of the bunch.
I think that after 7 years of trying and failing to cash in on WoW's success, some developers have finally realized that there is only room for one WoW in the genre. I, for one, am glad that at least some of the upcoming MMOs are attempting to do something different from this "base model" and I'm really looking forward to GW2, Firefall, ArcheAge and Planetside 2.
The best sandbox still cannot touch EQs numbers from its heyday, and WoW took it to another level. Throw in games like EQ2, FF11, LoTRO, Rift, and now TOR, and Devs would be flat ignorant for making a pure sandbox.
WoW took NOTHING to another level. It took what every game had already done and made everything so casual friendly its almost vomit worthy.
Only to some. Any game that can pull in a Billion or more dollars a year, year after year, is obviously doing a number of things right. You and I may not agree with their choices, but its obvious that millions and millions of players did, and do.
Its only now, that we are more than seven years after WoW's launch, that they are starting to lose millions of players. It remains to be seen how this will turn out. The causual market VASTLY out numbers the "hard core" gamer market. Since one of the main objectives of this exercise is to make as good a ROI as possible, ignoring the causual market is a non starter.
If Blizzard can even come close with Titan to WoW's success, they will have demonstrated that it was not a fluke. Given what has transpired in the last seven plus years (and may in the next two or so until Titans launch), I personally doubt they will be able to duplicate WoW's success. But as I said, that remains to be seen.
Kill X of Y. SWTOR has it from the 1st mission. (deleting Adam’s first paragraph)
Text : Ok. VO : Suck my [****]!!! (delete Suzie’s first paragraph)
17+ levels until you can “Fly” a space ship (delete both 2nd paragraphs)
It is an RPG. That is the definition for those claiming a lack of innovation.
Only a MMOFPS of the likes of Halo Gears of Battlefield Duty would count as innovation.
Delete entire article They ignored ( didn't realize ) the point
Pardon any spelling errors
Konfess your cyns and some maybe forgiven Boy: Why can't I talk to Him? Mom: We don't talk to Priests. As if it could exist, without being payed for. F2P means you get what you paid for. Pay nothing, get nothing. Even telemarketers wouldn't think that. It costs money to play. Therefore P2W.
First a question: why in this world of the internet can't we follow the basics in rational debate and discussion that we would in person, i.e. respect of the right to have an opinion that differs from ours? We aren't going to change minds- it's more to discuss opinions. The market will bear what it will, so vote with your dollars. If you don't like it, don't sub, and if you do... do? No need to talk down to those that do like it (or don't like it). If more people like it than not (and the direction) then it will take off. If not, it will tank. I'd rather concentrate on discussing what it doesn't have, and how to improve it.... that said...
Originally posted by Deewe
b) Lack of innovation
This game is, to my knowledge, the first to launch without any, more or less common, features of the below list:
Swimming
Third party addons
Dual spec
Day/night cycles
Non humanoid based playable races
Housing furnishing
Animal based pet classes
Complex crafting system
Guild levelling system
Animal mounts
Flying mounts
PvP Arenas
Collision detection between characters
Macros
Barber / Image Designer
Appearance tabs
Fishing
Guild "Tabard"
Multiplayer mounts
Gear Dyes
Shared storage bank slots
In game voice chat
LFG tool
Guild bank
Incentives for socialization
Character extended body customization
3 Factions RvR
Wolrd PvP
RPG tools
Underwater content
3d exploration
So the real innovation was to launch without at least what was commonly accepted as good practices in others MMO.
Really? Accepted practice and never seen in any other MMO? Many of these things (even just holding up WoW) weren't there on launch, and still aren't there (in way of incentives for socialization and extended body customizations... and even 3 factions), so I don't get the 'accepted practices in others MMO[sic].' Some of these are handled in other ways, also- you can't dye nor put on appearance because of moddable equipment, which is a different, but I think viable way of handling the issue. What's listed here might be an ultimate list for an MMO, but I don't think that *any* current of even the *most developed* of MMOs implement all of them, so this isn't a list of commonly accepted features/practices.
First a question: why in this world of the internet can't we follow the basics in rational debate and discussion that we would in person, i.e. respect of the right to have an opinion that differs from ours? We aren't going to change minds- it's more to discuss opinions. The market will bear what it will, so vote with your dollars. If you don't like it, don't sub, and if you do... do? No need to talk down to those that do like it (or don't like it). If more people like it than not (and the direction) then it will take off. If not, it will tank. I'd rather concentrate on discussing what it doesn't have, and how to improve it.... that said...
Deewe **snip**
Originally posted by Deewe
Really? Accepted practice and never seen in any other MMO? Many of these things (even just holding up WoW) weren't there on launch, and still aren't there (in way of incentives for socialization and extended body customizations... and even 3 factions), so I don't get the 'accepted practices in others MMO[sic].' Some of these are handled in other ways, also- you can't dye nor put on appearance because of moddable equipment, which is a different, but I think viable way of handling the issue. What's listed here might be an ultimate list for an MMO, but I don't think that *any* current of even the *most developed* of MMOs implement all of them, so this isn't a list of commonly accepted features/practices.
Incentives for socialization = SWG
Extended body customization: SWG, AoC
3 factions: DAOC
All at launch.
And, once again, never said any MMO implemented all of them but: none lacked all of them but TOR.
"the complex struggle between moralities" hahahahahahah. Nice try. The moral choices the game offers are between drowning a baby and releasing it free. If you want a game with complex moral choices with actuall consequences of your actions in the future of your game play I suggest Witcher 2. SWTOR is even more shallow then KOTOR was and KOTOR was released years ago.
True. Withcer 2 beats anything on the market. -) And SWTOR storyline is a joke even vs. previous KOTOR games. ... Uh - you just came to our little academy little padawan - go kill 20 of those and then we can talk.... <30 minutes later> you did well beating 20 of those with only the training sword - the force is strong with you! But there are more fo "those" - you have to kill all of them before we can teach you the jedi codex. <2 hour later> Master I have killed 1000 of "those". Good - now you can have your lightsaber. Go kill 15 of "those" with it. ))))) lol
The best type of the MMO voiceover I have evr seen was in DCUO - you can listen to it while continuing to play (your mentor just gives you the mission on the comm.) or you can ignore it while continuing to play - your choice. Still it is much easier than reading through the quest description and is not anniying at all... and you don't have to pick up one of the 3 pointless alternatives... -)))
Comments
OKAY, WHAT ABOUT THAT PVP STUFF?
Honey Bunny:
There's no such thing as PvP in TOR.
Ok you have the minigames, that you can't even choose to which to queue for.
And then you have the capture flag Huttball. Try to feel heroic after having used your awesomesauce pesonally crafted Light Saber as a... glowing light bat. Thought I read somewhere Jedi don't participates in things like these. Might have been a typo.
Don't look for WORLD PvP, no can't be. Too many planets are one faction only and good luck to you to find opponents on others planets either.
The game was designed to scatter players in many instanced and non shared zones. No good world PvP can come out of it without a revamp.
BTW speak of silly design, locking players in two separate factions then, when you realize (told you so) the balance issue work on same faction battlegrounds.
COMPANIONS FOR THE WIN?
Honey Bunny:
Ever heard of the lone wolf? Well if you like pain, in single player mode, you can play the game without them and loose around 40% of your combat capacity. In short companions are required for solo mode making pet classes mandatory.
Now say you are a fan of pet classes. Then in multiplayer mode, unless your group leader is willing to drop a player for your pet: you can't play a pet class.
In a way they found a way to screw both the pet class lovers and haters at the same time.
Does it feel like an MMO?
Honey Bunny:
No, it feels like a co-op online game.
Usually the devs try to deliver a world that feels alive with NPC wandering around, critters here and there, day/night cycles to make you feel time is passing. SWTOR feels like a graveyard.
Then the player has to go through so many loading screens that you don't feel like evolving in a world but in a series of instances. And travelling is a huge painful time sink.
You can't either really skip the, on rails, story to level.
The design of the various planets either totally prevents exploration or does not invites players to do so.
There is no such thing as dressing your character. Most players of the same level look alike. You don't own your character look. Biowares delivers it to you.
There's no world PvP.
The game totally lacks RP tools and socialization incentives.
Where are the live events?
Why is it good, and why is it bad, and can't we call just get along?
Honey Bunny:
Players are fed up of having lacklustre half finished games delivered to them.
TOR budged is supposedly 4 times AoC/Aion one and 5-6 times LotRo, how could they possibly deliver such an unvenly polished and lacking product?
The engine is far from optimized and it runs lower graphics than others MMO.
The game lacks most basic features, from guild banks to LFD tool
The UI would barely fit the requirements for a console game.
So start delivering what you've been advertizing then we'll talk.
Gangster off.
P.S.: Please take all the above with a "grain of salt" the idea was to take the role of the gangster.
R.P.S.: On a side note I'm actually subscribed to the game but seriously hope it will be tremendeoously improved... fast.
Make way for the top cop!
Well heartless i guess you dont have to spend anymore money on any MMOs ever again because this IS the base model for them( and it was established 14 years ago). To go away from this would be busniess suicide,invest 10 million or more into a product that May or May Not be liked?. As far as it being linear , well it is...but i LOVE the story lines they have written for us and if you cant enjoy that then you really need to move on.
Deewe, how about you go learn some more before you start spouting stuff that isn't true. MMO's have been around longer than your precious wow, and even that game didn't have everything you claim when it was released.
Heh, I think it was a tiny bit unfair to Adam to have Suzie always in a responding position, so she could reference what *he* said, as well as make her point. For that reason, I'm judging Suzie a little harsher.
Bottom line, this is the first game since WoW that I got a character to max level in, and I've played AoC, Rift, Warhammer and Aion for months. I just never got sucked in by these ones. But SWTOR had me hook, line and sinker. Maybe because of the way they disguised the grind. Or maybe just because it's ****ing Star Wars.
My vote goes to Adam.
I agree, 31 points, not a single one I believe is NEEDED in any game.
(DISCLAIMER - The use of the word YOU in the above post is not directed at any one person in particular, but towards those who fall into the category itself - there is no personal attack here, neither intentional nor implied.)
Never said any/most MMO has everything in the list at lauch, check below
Pretty sure you know this already, still my MMO experience is not so bad thank you.
Then I nowhere stated every MMO players wanted the listed features. What I wrote down is:
If the game is so terrible then why are you haters still discussing it? Go play your other game.
+1. Seriously I'm so tired about hearing this discussion. I dunno why I keep coming back to read more of it.
This is absolutely not the base model for MMOs. Look at UO, EVE, Planetside, Darkfall, etc.
There is one MMO for which this model worked well and that is WoW. Every other MMO that tried to adopt a similar model has failed. The only one I can think of that did remotely well is Rift and even that could be argued. LOTRO, AoC, DDO, EQ2, CO, STO, DCUO... all went F2P. Aion is about to join them shortly. WAR, although not F2P is an absolute failure and I'm honestly surprised that it hasn't joined the rest of the bunch.
I think that after 7 years of trying and failing to cash in on WoW's success, some developers have finally realized that there is only room for one WoW in the genre. I, for one, am glad that at least some of the upcoming MMOs are attempting to do something different from this "base model" and I'm really looking forward to GW2, Firefall, ArcheAge and Planetside 2.
If it was terrible, I'd not bother. What makes this so tragic, is that it could have been a MUCH better game. With a few better design decisions, and more attention to later level polish, ToR would have been a quite good game. I fault some of the senior design teams fragmented vision, and also EA for forcing it to be pushed out too soon.
Eh, I haven't hit this site sense SWTOR release, only now because of a server update. I love it, I love everything about it. The last time I had this much fun was in EQ and DAOC, also being as addictive as then. No MMO sense has done such till now.
I have multiple level 50's and my guild is just starting to hit the end content along with pvp. People have complained about being bored already but many as myself still remain. I don't know any MMO that hasn't had this issue thou even WoW did and does.
In the end, the argument here about inovation is in the way you see inovation, have I ever played an MMO with so much depth and thought put into the story arc's ? Can't say I have, there have been games that attempted to do so in text based questing, but NOTHING that kept me wanting to play to see the end, nothing. This goes for many of my friends in my guild, we have had this discussion recently on this very topic.
Beyond the stories and cut-scenes, the combat is fun and responsive, the graphics are pleasing along with the sound. I enjoyed both aspects of the sith side and reb, from ambiance to just the over-all feel. Everything I mean everything comes down to preferance. For a game that has only been out for a month now, it's probably one of if not the smoothest launch I ever played. (not saying there are no bugs, but it's playable to the end non the less).
For me, the invoations are indeed small beyond looking at the "interative story" aspects. But as a person whom' enjoy's the RPG in the MMO this game has it all for me and many others. For some as seen here , it's not for everyone, but then the same can be said about World Of Warcraft, I didn't care for it after a month, but many did.
If people where expecting ground breaking concepts in this game, I think they read into something that never was. Everything Bioware put into this game was posted on their website prior to release. There are wishes to be added and ideas no doubt. There was also a new just recently release additional end game conent that was added a month after release. The game needed more end content and it was obvious now that it was in the works prior to launch. For me as a gamer, this is at least good news, that the company understand what it needs to do too keep the game going.
In the end, time will tell, but for the moment, they have me as a loyal player , it all depends (just like any MMO) what they do in the future to keep me entertained. For me at least, the initial investment was well worth the entertaiment I got out of it.
"The monster created isn't by the company that makes the game, it's by the fans that make it something it never was"
"In 1977 Lucas created Star Wars, and he saw that it was good."
In subsequent years he saw it again and decided to ruin it. There are two watchable Star Wars films. A New Hope and Empire. Return of the Jedi is re-hash crapola and the prequels are farcically and embarrassingly awful.
George Lucas -Absolutely succeeding in his quest to render the original Star Wars films devoid of their original charm. What a horses ass.
The best sandbox still cannot touch EQs numbers from its heyday, and WoW took it to another level. Throw in games like EQ2, FF11, LoTRO, Rift, and now TOR, and Devs would be flat ignorant for making a pure sandbox.
Asking Devs to make AAA sandbox titles is like trying to get fine dining on a McDonalds dollar menu budget.
WoW took NOTHING to another level. It took what every game had already done and made everything so casual friendly its almost vomit worthy.
The problem is that the MMORPG genre is sort of a niche market and one of the reasons the rest of the clones fail is because there is a finite number of players and obviously most of them are going to gravitate towards good or popular games. That's why you see games like WoW and old EQ with high subscribers, while everyone else is struggling and fighting over scraps. This is why most of the clones are either going or already went F2P.
One thing I have to say about sandbox games is that even though they are more niche than their theme park counterparts, there is still a large, virtually untapped market for them. EVE Online has about active 350,000 accounts. UO, in it's prime had about 250,000 on the official servers alone. There is also a staggering amount of emulated servers for UO but it would probably be impossible to determine the total amount of players on those servers. We can also take into account Skyrim. Yes, it's a single player game but it is a sandbox and it sold a huge amount of copies, showing that the market for sandbox games is there.
A true sandbox game will probably not work though. It will be too confusing for an average MMO player who is used to hand holding and being gated from zone to zone. A sandbox/themepark hybrid, on the other hand, should do the trick. Games like ArcheAge and to a lesser degree GW2 are a step in the right direction.
Only to some. Any game that can pull in a Billion or more dollars a year, year after year, is obviously doing a number of things right. You and I may not agree with their choices, but its obvious that millions and millions of players did, and do.
Its only now, that we are more than seven years after WoW's launch, that they are starting to lose millions of players. It remains to be seen how this will turn out. The causual market VASTLY out numbers the "hard core" gamer market. Since one of the main objectives of this exercise is to make as good a ROI as possible, ignoring the causual market is a non starter.
If Blizzard can even come close with Titan to WoW's success, they will have demonstrated that it was not a fluke. Given what has transpired in the last seven plus years (and may in the next two or so until Titans launch), I personally doubt they will be able to duplicate WoW's success. But as I said, that remains to be seen.
Kill X of Y. SWTOR has it from the 1st mission. (deleting Adam’s first paragraph)
Text : Ok. VO : Suck my [****]!!! (delete Suzie’s first paragraph)
17+ levels until you can “Fly” a space ship (delete both 2nd paragraphs)
It is an RPG. That is the definition for those claiming a lack of innovation.
Only a MMOFPS of the likes of Halo Gears of Battlefield Duty would count as innovation.
Delete entire article They ignored ( didn't realize ) the point
Boy: Why can't I talk to Him?
Mom: We don't talk to Priests.
As if it could exist, without being payed for.
F2P means you get what you paid for. Pay nothing, get nothing.
Even telemarketers wouldn't think that.
It costs money to play. Therefore P2W.
I stopped wasting my time with this game along time ago, haha! And i´ve never looked back!
It just lacks too many MMO elements that its beyond repair!
Incentives for socialization = SWG
Extended body customization: SWG, AoC
3 factions: DAOC
All at launch.
And, once again, never said any MMO implemented all of them but: none lacked all of them but TOR.
True. Withcer 2 beats anything on the market. -) And SWTOR storyline is a joke even vs. previous KOTOR games. ... Uh - you just came to our little academy little padawan - go kill 20 of those and then we can talk.... <30 minutes later> you did well beating 20 of those with only the training sword - the force is strong with you! But there are more fo "those" - you have to kill all of them before we can teach you the jedi codex. <2 hour later> Master I have killed 1000 of "those". Good - now you can have your lightsaber. Go kill 15 of "those" with it. ))))) lol
Oh, you killed all of them? Good, the force is strong with you! You are now a jedi master!
We give you a ship now! Dont worry about pilot skills, you wont be flying it anyway!
You want a speeder so you dont have to run everywhere on foot?
Sorry, no can do, you must have a certification, perhaps you can come back at level 25 and we can giv you a speeder!
LOL, what a crappy game!
The best type of the MMO voiceover I have evr seen was in DCUO - you can listen to it while continuing to play (your mentor just gives you the mission on the comm.) or you can ignore it while continuing to play - your choice. Still it is much easier than reading through the quest description and is not anniying at all... and you don't have to pick up one of the 3 pointless alternatives... -)))