Well, considering there are countless SOE or EQ2 bashing threads, I figure that this one is as good as any for my rant.
I will never understand, for the life of me, why people have to direct so much hate toward a game that they did not personally enjoy--or worse yet, have never even played.
It seems like every day there is a new thread detailing how EQ2 SUX or that SOE is the worst company ever. Worse still are the ones that say both the game and company are FAILING--just ludicrous.
Just to clarify, I'm a WoW player, and am very much enjoying the game. I am relatively new to MMORPGs and have never even played an SOE game (tried to play SWG, but my old comp wasn't up to it at the time). I say this because even though I do not play their games, I do not wish them ill will in any way--in fact, the more ANY company succeeds in this market, the better it will be for us as a whole, don't you think?
I might be playing WoW right now, and having a good time, but I also look forward to trying many other games when I get bored with WoW. Variety and choice in this genre is a very good thing if you ask me.
Oh, and one other thing before I finish with my little rant:
It also greatly annoys me when people say SOE doesn't care about their customer base, and are only concerned with raking in the $$$. Now, granted, I could possibly see some Sony higher-ups thinking in this manner, but don't confuse them with the developers. To imply that they don't care would be very insulting to what they do. It takes a great deal of passion and dedication to make an MMO (moreso possibly than any other type of game), and I believe it would be IMPOSSIBLE to make a game such as EQ2 without that.
Originally posted by darquenblade Well, considering there are countless SOE or EQ2 bashing threads, I figure that this one is as good as any for my rant.I will never understand, for the life of me, why people have to direct so much hate toward a game that they did not personally enjoy--or worse yet, have never even played.It seems like every day there is a new thread detailing how EQ2 SUX or that SOE is the worst company ever. Worse still are the ones that say both the game and company are FAILING--just ludicrous.Just to clarify, I'm a WoW player, and am very much enjoying the game. I am relatively new to MMORPGs and have never even played an SOE game (tried to play SWG, but my old comp wasn't up to it at the time). I say this because even though I do not play their games, I do not wish them ill will in any way--in fact, the more ANY company succeeds in this market, the better it will be for us as a whole, don't you think?I might be playing WoW right now, and having a good time, but I also look forward to trying many other games when I get bored with WoW. Variety and choice in this genre is a very good thing if you ask me.Oh, and one other thing before I finish with my little rant:It also greatly annoys me when people say SOE doesn't care about their customer base, and are only concerned with raking in the $$$. Now, granted, I could possibly see some Sony higher-ups thinking in this manner, but don't confuse them with the developers. To imply that they don't care would be very insulting to what they do. It takes a great deal of passion and dedication to make an MMO (moreso possibly than any other type of game), and I believe it would be IMPOSSIBLE to make a game such as EQ2 without that.Ok, I think I'm done ranting
Very well said, excellent post.
- Scaris
"What happened to you, Star Wars Galaxies? You used to look like Leia. Not quite gold bikini Leia (more like bad-British-accent-and-cinnamon-bun-hair Leia), but still Leia nonetheless. Now you look like Chewbacca." - Computer Gaming World
Originally posted by darquenblade Well, considering there are countless SOE or EQ2 bashing threads, I figure that this one is as good as any for my rant. I will never understand, for the life of me, why people have to direct so much hate toward a game that they did not personally enjoy--or worse yet, have never even played. It seems like every day there is a new thread detailing how EQ2 SUX or that SOE is the worst company ever. Worse still are the ones that say both the game and company are FAILING--just ludicrous. Just to clarify, I'm a WoW player, and am very much enjoying the game. I am relatively new to MMORPGs and have never even played an SOE game (tried to play SWG, but my old comp wasn't up to it at the time). I say this because even though I do not play their games, I do not wish them ill will in any way--in fact, the more ANY company succeeds in this market, the better it will be for us as a whole, don't you think? I might be playing WoW right now, and having a good time, but I also look forward to trying many other games when I get bored with WoW. Variety and choice in this genre is a very good thing if you ask me. Oh, and one other thing before I finish with my little rant: It also greatly annoys me when people say SOE doesn't care about their customer base, and are only concerned with raking in the $$$. Now, granted, I could possibly see some Sony higher-ups thinking in this manner, but don't confuse them with the developers. To imply that they don't care would be very insulting to what they do. It takes a great deal of passion and dedication to make an MMO (moreso possibly than any other type of game), and I believe it would be IMPOSSIBLE to make a game such as EQ2 without that. Ok, I think I'm done ranting
Originally posted by Billius8 Originally posted by Razorback Originally posted by jayheld90Originally posted by JodokaiI think it's funny that everything he hates is what makes it my favorite game.exactly...and see kids, thats why he is NOT in charge.
I'm not the one with the game which is tanking.
300,000 + Subscribers isn't tanking... your like the Washington Redskins fans that say Clinton Portis had a bad year because he only rushed for 1400 yards...
Grow up.
Originally posted by Wickes BTW, Saragoth, it's just a guess ... but I'd bet you were banned for bad language.
Originally posted by Roin Originally posted by 9216544Originally posted by Billius8 Reintroduce arena's and duelingIm sure they will, in the strategy guide I read you can duel in arenas, but it think it said that so they dont have to upgrade the strategy guide when PvP is introduced.Overall I think you just want an easier game. EQ2 is too complex for you. I think those are the two funniest parts of your reply to him. PvP? Keep dreaming. The way EQ2 is now doing any sort of real pvp short of duels would be like a comet hitting the earth. The part about EQ2 becoming too 'complex' for him is probably the funniest thing I've ever heard. EQ2 is dumbed down so far it's not even funny.
i really don't get people like you. why does it seem so impossible that they would add PvP? seriously, i want to know. they added pvp in eq1 didnt they? the game is set up perfectly for pvp, its just waiting to be put in.
PVP was available in EQ1 during beta in the form of duels and the arena.. The PVP servers were available at launch, there were 2 or 3, Vallon and Tallon Zek and maybe one other one was always there.. They weren't added.
Originally posted by Wickes BTW, Saragoth, it's just a guess ... but I'd bet you were banned for bad language.
ditch heroic oppertunity? lol thats why i picked EQ2 over WoW.... WoW crafting? A+B=C always, instantly IOR is arguably one of the best zones in the game shorten quest text....go to school and strengthen your reading and writing, text is required to make the quest interesting (even if the quest is boring as hell the background can still be good) eliminate flashy gfx....uh turn your particle effects off limit instance stuff....no thx you goto your own nektropos castle all the loot is my group's, and nothing is more fun then building a party to find out all the spots are full in a non instanced zone that contains the only mobs to level off of (see AO:Shadowlands) citizenship quest....whaaambulance is on the way....it takes a whole 5mins to finish it "rested" xp bonus....its called vitality, been in game since beta
Originally posted by darquenblade Well, considering there are countless SOE or EQ2 bashing threads, I figure that this one is as good as any for my rant.I will never understand, for the life of me, why people have to direct so much hate toward a game that they did not personally enjoy--or worse yet, have never even played.It seems like every day there is a new thread detailing how EQ2 SUX or that SOE is the worst company ever. Worse still are the ones that say both the game and company are FAILING--just ludicrous.Just to clarify, I'm a WoW player, and am very much enjoying the game. I am relatively new to MMORPGs and have never even played an SOE game (tried to play SWG, but my old comp wasn't up to it at the time). I say this because even though I do not play their games, I do not wish them ill will in any way--in fact, the more ANY company succeeds in this market, the better it will be for us as a whole, don't you think?I might be playing WoW right now, and having a good time, but I also look forward to trying many other games when I get bored with WoW. Variety and choice in this genre is a very good thing if you ask me.Oh, and one other thing before I finish with my little rant:It also greatly annoys me when people say SOE doesn't care about their customer base, and are only concerned with raking in the $$$. Now, granted, I could possibly see some Sony higher-ups thinking in this manner, but don't confuse them with the developers. To imply that they don't care would be very insulting to what they do. It takes a great deal of passion and dedication to make an MMO (moreso possibly than any other type of game), and I believe it would be IMPOSSIBLE to make a game such as EQ2 without that.Ok, I think I'm done ranting
BEST RANT EVER. Although I would say it's more or less how everyone should look apon the industry.
In War - Victory. In Peace - Vigilance. In Death - Sacrifice.
Okay, I wasn't trying to be difficult, but here's why I think your recommendations would make EQ2 more WoW-like, really (having played WoW for about 2 months beginning at retail release"
Thin out the class system (Paladins, Rogues, Rangers, usual classes are okay; we don't need Swashbucklers, Assassins, 2 types of Cleric, etc)
This is similar to WoW, really. I don't see why additional sub-classes are a bad thing in themselves, it leads to more variety as compared with WoW's system where you are the same class since level 1.
[quote[ Thin out the duplicate combat skills (a rogue doesn't need three varieties of sneak attack) [/quote]
Again, this reminds me of WoW where your core skills remain the same for most of the game, and you periodically upgrade them at certain levels. One of the things I like about EQ2 is that I can both upgrade my existing spells and I get new ones ... to me, it feels like more variety.
Ditch the shared group death penalty
This one could use some thinking, I agree. It's good that you pay attention to everyone else in the group, but maybe there is a better way to do it than this way.
Keep locked encounters (this actually worked)
Here I actually think WoW's system is better. No kill stealing because the first person to attack always gets the lion's share of the XP, but at also allows people to help each other out when they see someone is in trouble ... without the other person losing *all* of their EXP. In EQ2, you have to yell for help and lose all of the EXP and loot opportunity in order to allow someone to help out even with a heal, and that is a little too restrictive in my view.
Ditch the annoying Hollywood talent and silence NPC's
I like this. it's more immersive. I wish that some of the NPCs would speak less frequently however.
Shorten the text of NPC's for quests (shouldn't have to click through boxes without reading, to get to point)
This is similar to WoW, I don't have an issue with either game's quest texts, they help build a story and immersion for those who are interested in that.
Get rid of intanced housing; means nothing.
I dunno, I like the housing, and I also like that the landscape isn't cluttered with player houses like it was in SWG. WoW has no housing at all, and I think that is the wrong way to go.
Real housing should give characters a "rested" experience bonus, similar to WOW, with perhaps the nicer the accomodations, the better the bonus.
But that really defeats the purpose of it, doesn't it? I mean real housing costs real money which means only accessible to more advanced players. The point of rest XP/vitality is that less involved players can still play and make progress -- if that is not accessible to lower level more casual kind of gamers, the whole point of the system goes away.
Reintroduce racial characteristics and racial starting cities
Agree.
Simplify crafting system (WOW's is a good example)
No, really disagree here. WoW's crafting is totally uninteresting to any MMO player who likes crafting. It's too easy, in the sense that anyone can create the same quality item as anyone else, and it's also completely uninvolved -=- I call it the "click create all and have a sandwich" crafting, which is really boring. I agree that there should be come changes to EQ2's crafting system, but it's closer to what an MMO crafting system should be than WoW's -- much closer, in my opinion (but I am one of those who likes to craft).
Allow selling while off-line, have some sort of market, but could have the market specific to its own city (i.e., different cities might have different things for sale by their respective PC populations)
I don't think offline selling should be introduced, it leads to inflation. I *do* think that one should be able to sell when online but not restricted to one's apartment -- in other words, your items can be sold on the broker when you are adventuring or crafting, but not when you are offline.
I think they should thin out the class system, but not necessarily to the degree which WOW has. Really, what they had in EQLive covered a lot of bases pretty well. That's all subjective, of course, but I think everyone has a feel for what constitutes too many or too few classes (8 is kind of low, 48 is getting to be too much).
Not sure what could replace the shared group death penalty or that any mechanism for this is needed. I don't think the game can cover all problems. In fact, many "solutions" bring their own baggage and issues with them as we've seen.
Yes, I agree WOW's system is actually superior to locked encounters.
The "annoying Hollywood talent" I spoke of in my original post really reflects to the obvious NY taxi-cab drivers accents I hear in a lot of NPC's. The auction house guy in North Qeynos is one example, and a lot of the rude NPC's in Freeport is another. The question is should merchants and peasants be openly disrespectful to chainmail-clad customers bearing broadswords? The least they could lose in such an encounter ought to be their business. Just not real, not realistic and can be grating. (Am I alone in thinking Freeport sort of beats you down with the insults a little too much?)
"Get rid of instanced housing." I think for most players, housing could be a non-instanced tavern room they buy a temporary key to get into, log out, and log back on fully rested (with enhanced exp bonus or some other benefit). I think that premium housing should be costly, but non-instanced in that such a dwelling is represented by a real place that other characters can view (and covet). Perhaps players could see you proudly standing on the balcony of your new villa, sipping coffee. But do you run out of real estate in the game? Perhaps. I just know that instanced housing means nothing to me. I usually deleted my furniture and checked out first thing after finishing citizenship quests. Maybe, the zoning is what makes it too much of a hassle to be worth retaining.
We agree on the reintroduction of racial characteristics. I believe that every race (including Humans) ought to have some special advantages which set them apart. For truly and potentially game-imbalancing advantages, such as regeneration, perhaps a counter racial characteristic (being especially vulnerable to fire; taking extra fire damage) mitigates this.
In regard to the market, I do miss the open barter of the East Commons tunnel, but if selling and buying is going to be automated, might as well make it some kind of store where you don't have to be online to sell.
Overall, there are lots of things they could have done differently, and I know they cannot please everyone, but the biggest, biggest, biggest thing they did was to completely alter (and reduce) Norrath. I anticipated a bigger, richer, more detailed Norrath where continents like Odus had vast jungles to explore and Kunark was waiting to be rediscovered.
But, as Charlton Heston said as he sank to his knees before the half buried Statue of Liberty in The Planet of the Apes movie, "you did it, you fools, you finally did it. You blew it up!"
I don't know about you, but I loved Norrath. They had might as well blown up Middle Earth, that's the scale of what has been done to OUR game world.
Did you know that Bing Crosby's White Christmas is the biggest selling single of all time. I bet Justin Timberlake finds that difficult to deal with
+-+-+-+-+-+ "MMOs, for people that like think chatting is like a skill or something, rotflol" http://purepwnage.com -+-+-+-+-+-+ "Far away across the field, the tolling of the iron bell, calls the faithful to their knees. To hear the softly spoken magic spell" Pink Floyd-Dark Side of the Moon
Like it or not, EQ2 is terrible. Not just for some people....its objectively terrible. Some of you maybe havent taken "the red pill" yet...and perhaps never will.
The shared xp debt alone is proof that they should never have been given 25 million and some computers. They promised to make it more for small parties...they didnt. They promised to make it more for small guilds...they didnt. They could have made every character unique by choosing their own template...they didnt. Every cleric looks the same. There are still GLARING bugs in the game...that havent been fixed.
Im not pimping any other game...they have all recently let me down. Every....single...one.
Darkfall and Mourning look good ...as well as Vanguard but I dont think that has PvP.
I played EQ1 for almost 5 years, but see the errors in it as well. I shudder to think what EQ3 would be like with the crap they've thrown at us in EQ2.
The small guild I am in is progressing just fine, thanks.
Armor changes have recently been added to avoid having all chars look the same. Some armor was unintentionally looking similar to other types of armor. As itemization grows and the game continues, this won't be such a big deal. Find me a major guild tank in PoP that didn't use the Blade of War right after killing Rallos, and I'll find you a moron. The fact is, this isn't unique to this game at all, and they're working on it.
Yes there are some bugs, some are big deal, other's aren't but I'm enjoying the game overall and they have done a very good job of addressing the major ones first, and doing it as quickly as is possible. On top of that it's an MMO. They all have bugs. All of them.
Maybe you should just give up on MMOs.
As for the WoW comparison posters, I will say this.
I liked everything they did in WoW, all the systems seemed to work pretty much perfectly. The problem is, I didn't like any of them all that much.
While I don't like EVERYTHING they have done with EQ2, I LOVE what they've done with several things alot, and for that I'm willing to put up with the rest. Complex and interesting crafting, a pile of lore, traits, skills, and various historical lore-filled quests, interesting and exciting combat, just to name a few of my favorites. The graphics are another big plus. Not super outstanding, but I can't stand WoW's cartoony look. All of it's personal preference, as it should be.
Habit is not to be flung out the window by any man, but coaxed down the stairs one step at a time. - Mark Twain
And the next person talkin nicely about WoW, I swear I will puke all over him!
WoW make a game for the casuals at the expense of the ''hardcores'', this is not better then the opposite nor worser, but it is plainly unacceptable. Please the casuals all you want, I see peoples who never make it to 40 in EQ that are 60 in WoW(and they are bored and will leave shortly I assume), good, but what about the players who reach the top in EQ, what can they do and enjoy after they play WoW for 3 weeks and reach the top? Nada, it is not worser then a game that have nothing for the casuals, but it is certainly not any better, someone saying otherwise is prolly not looking farther then their nose and find this a favorable system, Diablo is more hardcore then WoW, so please, stop honey talking a game that offer about nothing. A game that have a subscription fees of $15 per month need to have accomplishments to do, if you have nothing, then you should not charge $15.
- "If I understand you well, you are telling me until next time. " - Ren
Billius8, I don't understand why you keep going on about some of these things
As to classes, first of all there are 24 final classes - not 48. And of the 24, half are evil, with minor variations between the two. So there are 12 good classes and 12 evil classes. How is this too many? And how does it affect you anyway? I don't see how this causes any problem for anyone, and I've rarely heard anyone complain about it. On the contrary, most people always want more classes.
Instanced housing - If you don't want it don't use it. Personally, I am having a lot of fun with my apartment, as are my friends. When I feel like veging out I'll go shop around for something to add and then move things around. I'm going to make one of my alts a craftsman to make stuff for myself and friends. My cat amuses me endlessly, and I plan to add more pets. Okay, so I am an idiot But I am having fun, and it is, after all a game. How does this affect you in any way? Does it bother you that others like it?
The voiceovers bother you? Turn them off. I generally have them turned off, but I do turn them on now and then because sometimes I find them entertaining. Who in the world focuses on whether somebody's accent is correct ... the same problem has existed in movies and TV forever, so SOE is supposed to obsess over proper casting?
There HAS to be some penalty for death. If there isn't the game is kid stuff. As it is, the shared death penalty isn't even worth mentioning. It is SO easy to overcome I can't believe it when I hear people complain. Honestly, it should be much worse. In order to get any sense of accomplishment in a game, you have to overcome *something*. It boggles my mind how so many current gamers just want game sims ... note I didn't same sim games, I said game sims ... i.e., something that seems like a game but really isn't. You just paint by number yourself through easy steps and pretend you're doing something. A GAME involves challenge.
Anyway, honestly some of this stuff seems to me to be just complaining for the sake of complaining.
what can they do and enjoy after they play WoW for 3 weeks and reach the top?
Dude, if anyone does this it's their own fault that there's nothing else to do. I don't think developers should ever have to cater to this type of player, seeing how they are usually the first to leave after burning through all the content, and thus are short term subscribers.
Developers will NEVER be able to satisfy these types, and that is fine, because they do not represtent the majority of the player base.
I play WoW, and I will admit it has it's hand holding elements and it's flaws, but I still find it to be highly enjoyable. I think it's immense popularity right now is a good thing (and not just because i'm playing it), because it's bringing a lot more people to the MMO scene, which is in my opinion a good thing. Sure, some of these people are 'youngins', but they'll grow up in a couple of years.
Anyhow, if you don't like WoW, just leave it alone. Don't constantly flame how bad it sucks if you don't like it, and please don't say you'll puke on anyone that speaks nicely of the game. God forbid they like it.
And in no way do I intend to attack EQ2 either, just because I play WoW. You know what? As soon as I get tired of WoW (which I'm sure I will, it happens with all games), I'm giving EQ2 a spin. Why? Because dang it, it looks good too.
Originally posted by Anofalye I think Billius should buy Dragons of Norrath.
And the next person talkin nicely about WoW, I swear I will puke all over him!
WoW make a game for the casuals at the expense of the ''hardcores'', this is not better then the opposite nor worser, but it is plainly unacceptable. Please the casuals all you want, I see peoples who never make it to 40 in EQ that are 60 in WoW(and they are bored and will leave shortly I assume), good, but what about the players who reach the top in EQ, what can they do and enjoy after they play WoW for 3 weeks and reach the top? Nada, it is not worser then a game that have nothing for the casuals, but it is certainly not any better, someone saying otherwise is prolly not looking farther then their nose and find this a favorable system, Diablo is more hardcore then WoW, so please, stop honey talking a game that offer about nothing. A game that have a subscription fees of $15 per month need to have accomplishments to do, if you have nothing, then you should not charge $15.
Why does it not surprise me that we couldn't go one thread without someone. Taking a pot shot at WoW instead of discussing EQ2 on the EQ2 forums. Good job Anofalye you are a master of off topic discussion. Take a bow.
In War - Victory. In Peace - Vigilance. In Death - Sacrifice.
So how is it that Anofalye gets the title of "Master of OT discusion" when I posted that Bing Crosby's white Xmas is the biggest selling record of all time ?
At least he was talking about MMO's
Geez the lengths you have to go to to get insulted around here make it barely worth trying
+-+-+-+-+-+ "MMOs, for people that like think chatting is like a skill or something, rotflol" http://purepwnage.com -+-+-+-+-+-+ "Far away across the field, the tolling of the iron bell, calls the faithful to their knees. To hear the softly spoken magic spell" Pink Floyd-Dark Side of the Moon
It is me that is off topic? I am sorry, but some folks start praising a game I dislike and have spend $60, I am entitled to complain and bitch about it. This is capitalism!
And if anyone praise WoW again in an EQ2 section, I will be more then happy to puke on them!
I am tired of peoples praising endlessly the weakest MMORPG I ever play. Soccer have more supporters then any other sports, it dont make it the best sport despite the fact everyone that can afford a ball can play it, so if you cant stand someone bitching at WoW, dont praise it, especially not outside of the WoW reserve!
Oh, if I am ''efficient and finish the game'' in 3 weeks it is me that is wrong? LOL, no, it is the devs that lack at doing a proper MMORPG job, $15 a month mean that someone playing 300+ hours a month need content for 300 hours every month! Which WoW obviously dont have!
- "If I understand you well, you are telling me until next time. " - Ren
It is me that is off topic? I am sorry, but some folks start praising a game I dislike and have spend $60, I am entitled to complain and bitch about it. This is capitalism! And if anyone praise WoW again in an EQ2 section, I will be more then happy to puke on them! I am tired of peoples praising endlessly the weakest MMORPG I ever play. Soccer have more supporters then any other sports, it dont make it the best sport despite the fact everyone that can afford a ball can play it, so if you cant stand someone bitching at WoW, dont praise it, especially not outside of the WoW reserve! Oh, if I am ''efficient and finish the game'' in 3 weeks it is me that is wrong? LOL, no, it is the devs that lack at doing a proper MMORPG job, $15 a month mean that someone playing 300+ hours a month need content for 300 hours every month! Which WoW obviously dont have!
Anofalye, how old are you? Because you sound like your thirteen.
Seriously, why don't I have a right to defend a game, when you OBVIOUSLY have a right to flame it? I really don't give a shit if you spent 60 bucks on the game and didn't like it. That's your problem.
Why do I think you sound like a prepubecent teen? Because of your last paragraph. You actually EXPECT game developers to cater to losers like you who blow through massive games like this in three weeks? Excuse me, but I don't think it's their fault that you don't have a life.
And if you actually do play for 300+ hours a month (I'm sincerely hoping that was an exaggeration), then you cannot convince me in any way, shape or form that you actually DO have a life.
Insulting others peoples is certainly helping your case. I remember arguing with raiders about EQ. They to where insulting me. It seem everyone is extremely selfish and short sighted, catering to 1 group only, be it raiders, be it casuals, be it anything, is unacceptable for a MMORPG.
If it make you feel better insulting my lifestyle, so good for you. But I do have 300 hours a month to spend behind a computer, all the time playing. A MMORPG with a monthlee fee need to be able to consume a lot of this time, otherwise I wont bother and just play Civilisation more. If I take the phone, I will have a classroom and be a high school teacher tomorrow(in French, social studies), yet I assume I must lack maturity and act like a 13 if you say so, but for now, I rather just play then teach, I am not a workholic. Considering that our States want ME to be a teacher for our teens, be afraid if you really think what you say about me, be very afraid indeed!
Althought I will not insult you back DarkenBlade, I promise I would do that, here you go, just for you: ...and again . WoW is the lamest game ever, the next step is a game involving pressing space bar and reading YOU WIN! And again for good measures:
- "If I understand you well, you are telling me until next time. " - Ren
Originally posted by Anofalye Insulting others peoples is certainly helping your case. I remember arguing with raiders about EQ. They to where insulting me. It seem everyone is extremely selfish and short sighted, catering to 1 group only, be it raiders, be it casuals, be it anything, is unacceptable for a MMORPG.
If it make you feel better insulting my lifestyle, so good for you. But I do have 300 hours a month to spend behind a computer, all the time playing. A MMORPG with a monthlee fee need to be able to consume a lot of this time, otherwise I wont bother and just play Civilisation more. If I take the phone, I will have a classroom and be a high school teacher tomorrow(in French, social studies), yet I assume I must lack maturity and act like a 13 if you say so, but for now, I rather just play then teach, I am not a workholic. Considering that our States want ME to be a teacher for our teens, be afraid if you really think what you say about me, be very afraid indeed!
Althought I will not insult you back DarkenBlade, I promise I would do that, here you go, just for you: ...and again . WoW is the lamest game ever, the next step is a game involving pressing space bar and reading YOU WIN! And again for good measures:
Listen. If I insulted you in any way, I do apologize (although I do think it is a little..em..extreme to spend that much time on a computer).
My main point of contention with what you said involved you insisting that there needs to be constant content for people that play as much as you do. The developers for these games ALREADY spend around 70-80 hours a week fixing bugs and adding the content that harcore players spend all their time blowing through. To expect them to add 2 to 3 times that much content on top of that, simply because you have the time to spare, is selfish I think.
Anofalye, I don't particularly like to insult people, and reading my post again I saw that I did do that. I was in a pretty foul mood when I typed that, and I do apologize. Usually on forums I try to be as civil to a person as I would be to them face-to-face. But, there you have it. The above paragraph illustrates my beef as plainly as I can present it.
Oh, and....WoW RULES FOREVER!!!!!!!!! (heh, sorry...I couldn't help it. Just joking with you )
Originally posted by darquenblade Anofalye said:what can they do and enjoy after they play WoW for 3 weeks and reach the top?Dude, if anyone does this it's their own fault that there's nothing else to do. I don't think developers should ever have to cater to this type of player, seeing how they are usually the first to leave after burning through all the content, and thus are short term subscribers.Developers will NEVER be able to satisfy these types, and that is fine, because they do not represtent the majority of the player base.I play WoW, and I will admit it has it's hand holding elements and it's flaws, but I still find it to be highly enjoyable. I think it's immense popularity right now is a good thing (and not just because i'm playing it), because it's bringing a lot more people to the MMO scene, which is in my opinion a good thing. Sure, some of these people are 'youngins', but they'll grow up in a couple of years. Anyhow, if you don't like WoW, just leave it alone. Don't constantly flame how bad it sucks if you don't like it, and please don't say you'll puke on anyone that speaks nicely of the game. God forbid they like it.And in no way do I intend to attack EQ2 either, just because I play WoW. You know what? As soon as I get tired of WoW (which I'm sure I will, it happens with all games), I'm giving EQ2 a spin. Why? Because dang it, it looks good too.
I agree Dark.
Ano's kind of a jerk, but I think most people can see that. My favorite part is where he/she calls people out for being self-centered, then posts his/her opinion as fact and vows to shout down anyone who thinks different. Comedy gold.
Habit is not to be flung out the window by any man, but coaxed down the stairs one step at a time. - Mark Twain
Oky, I am 13 mentally, I have no life and waste it, I am selfish, I am a jerk because I cant see how WoW is the supreme game? This is all for the insults or you want to add more?
I didnt recall asking for a game where the casuals would be hopelessly crushed, or a game where all non-soloers would be lame, now that would be selfish of me. I just ask for a game that would please all players. As far as Noubourne or Darkblade goes, I see no more point of talking with you then with a door, well...at least the door dont insult peoples.
The EQ community know very well I disagree a lot with them, especially when it come to raiding enforcement, however, they didnt insult as much as you do, and they behave a lot nicer then you WoW trolls are behaving.
I dont recall the any community going to praise endlessly how their game is the best game ever everywhere, endlessly, pointlessly. Yet, when it come to WoW, the peoples seem to think it should be different. Bnet!
The Wish, the DnL, the CoH, the EQ2 community all love their game, but they know when to stop, which the WoW community dont know, and you are aggravating a lot of peoples doing so.
- "If I understand you well, you are telling me until next time. " - Ren
Oky, I am 13 mentally, I have no life and waste it, I am selfish, I am a jerk because I cant see how WoW is the supreme game? This is all for the insults or you want to add more?
I didnt recall asking for a game where the casuals would be hopelessly crushed, or a game where all non-soloers would be lame, now that would be selfish of me. I just ask for a game that would please all players. As far as Noubourne or Darkblade goes, I see no more point of talking with you then with a door, well...at least the door dont insult peoples.
The EQ community know very well I disagree a lot with them, especially when it come to raiding enforcement, however, they didnt insult as much as you do, and they behave a lot nicer then you WoW trolls are behaving.
I dont recall the any community going to praise endlessly how their game is the best game ever everywhere, endlessly, pointlessly. Yet, when it come to WoW, the peoples seem to think it should be different. Bnet!
The Wish, the DnL, the CoH, the EQ2 community all love their game, but they know when to stop, which the WoW community dont know, and you are aggravating a lot of peoples doing so.
For God's sake man, didn't you read my last post? I freaking APOLOGIZED to you. A lot of good it did, considering you just read right over it. I tried to represent my argument in a logical manner, but obviously you didn't catch on, or only read what you wanted to.
Comments
Well, considering there are countless SOE or EQ2 bashing threads, I figure that this one is as good as any for my rant.
I will never understand, for the life of me, why people have to direct so much hate toward a game that they did not personally enjoy--or worse yet, have never even played.
It seems like every day there is a new thread detailing how EQ2 SUX or that SOE is the worst company ever. Worse still are the ones that say both the game and company are FAILING--just ludicrous.
Just to clarify, I'm a WoW player, and am very much enjoying the game. I am relatively new to MMORPGs and have never even played an SOE game (tried to play SWG, but my old comp wasn't up to it at the time). I say this because even though I do not play their games, I do not wish them ill will in any way--in fact, the more ANY company succeeds in this market, the better it will be for us as a whole, don't you think?
I might be playing WoW right now, and having a good time, but I also look forward to trying many other games when I get bored with WoW. Variety and choice in this genre is a very good thing if you ask me.
Oh, and one other thing before I finish with my little rant:
It also greatly annoys me when people say SOE doesn't care about their customer base, and are only concerned with raking in the $$$. Now, granted, I could possibly see some Sony higher-ups thinking in this manner, but don't confuse them with the developers. To imply that they don't care would be very insulting to what they do. It takes a great deal of passion and dedication to make an MMO (moreso possibly than any other type of game), and I believe it would be IMPOSSIBLE to make a game such as EQ2 without that.
Ok, I think I'm done ranting
Very well said, excellent post.
- Scaris
"What happened to you, Star Wars Galaxies? You used to look like Leia. Not quite gold bikini Leia (more like bad-British-accent-and-cinnamon-bun-hair Leia), but still Leia nonetheless. Now you look like Chewbacca." - Computer Gaming World
I'm not the one with the game which is tanking.
300,000 + Subscribers isn't tanking... your like the Washington Redskins fans that say Clinton Portis had a bad year because he only rushed for 1400 yards...
Grow up.
Originally posted by Wickes
BTW, Saragoth, it's just a guess ... but I'd bet you were banned for bad language.
[quote]Originally posted by Nihilanth
[b]
PVP was available in EQ1 during beta in the form of duels and the arena.. The PVP servers were available at launch, there were 2 or 3, Vallon and Tallon Zek and maybe one other one was always there.. They weren't added.
Originally posted by Wickes
BTW, Saragoth, it's just a guess ... but I'd bet you were banned for bad language.
ditch heroic oppertunity? lol thats why i picked EQ2 over WoW....
WoW crafting? A+B=C always, instantly
IOR is arguably one of the best zones in the game
shorten quest text....go to school and strengthen your reading and writing, text is required to make the quest interesting (even if the quest is boring as hell the background can still be good)
eliminate flashy gfx....uh turn your particle effects off
limit instance stuff....no thx you goto your own nektropos castle all the loot is my group's, and nothing is more fun then building a party to find out all the spots are full in a non instanced zone that contains the only mobs to level off of (see AO:Shadowlands)
citizenship quest....whaaambulance is on the way....it takes a whole 5mins to finish it
"rested" xp bonus....its called vitality, been in game since beta
BEST RANT EVER. Although I would say it's more or less how everyone should look apon the industry.
In War - Victory.
In Peace - Vigilance.
In Death - Sacrifice.
Okay, I wasn't trying to be difficult, but here's why I think your recommendations would make EQ2 more WoW-like, really (having played WoW for about 2 months beginning at retail release"
This is similar to WoW, really. I don't see why additional sub-classes are a bad thing in themselves, it leads to more variety as compared with WoW's system where you are the same class since level 1.
[quote[ Thin out the duplicate combat skills (a rogue doesn't need three varieties of sneak attack) [/quote]
Again, this reminds me of WoW where your core skills remain the same for most of the game, and you periodically upgrade them at certain levels. One of the things I like about EQ2 is that I can both upgrade my existing spells and I get new ones ... to me, it feels like more variety.
This one could use some thinking, I agree. It's good that you pay attention to everyone else in the group, but maybe there is a better way to do it than this way.
Here I actually think WoW's system is better. No kill stealing because the first person to attack always gets the lion's share of the XP, but at also allows people to help each other out when they see someone is in trouble ... without the other person losing *all* of their EXP. In EQ2, you have to yell for help and lose all of the EXP and loot opportunity in order to allow someone to help out even with a heal, and that is a little too restrictive in my view.
I like this. it's more immersive. I wish that some of the NPCs would speak less frequently however.
This is similar to WoW, I don't have an issue with either game's quest texts, they help build a story and immersion for those who are interested in that.
I dunno, I like the housing, and I also like that the landscape isn't cluttered with player houses like it was in SWG. WoW has no housing at all, and I think that is the wrong way to go.
But that really defeats the purpose of it, doesn't it? I mean real housing costs real money which means only accessible to more advanced players. The point of rest XP/vitality is that less involved players can still play and make progress -- if that is not accessible to lower level more casual kind of gamers, the whole point of the system goes away.
Agree.
No, really disagree here. WoW's crafting is totally uninteresting to any MMO player who likes crafting. It's too easy, in the sense that anyone can create the same quality item as anyone else, and it's also completely uninvolved -=- I call it the "click create all and have a sandwich" crafting, which is really boring. I agree that there should be come changes to EQ2's crafting system, but it's closer to what an MMO crafting system should be than WoW's -- much closer, in my opinion (but I am one of those who likes to craft).
I don't think offline selling should be introduced, it leads to inflation. I *do* think that one should be able to sell when online but not restricted to one's apartment -- in other words, your items can be sold on the broker when you are adventuring or crafting, but not when you are offline.
I think they should thin out the class system, but not necessarily to the degree which WOW has. Really, what they had in EQLive covered a lot of bases pretty well. That's all subjective, of course, but I think everyone has a feel for what constitutes too many or too few classes (8 is kind of low, 48 is getting to be too much).
Not sure what could replace the shared group death penalty or that any mechanism for this is needed. I don't think the game can cover all problems. In fact, many "solutions" bring their own baggage and issues with them as we've seen.
Yes, I agree WOW's system is actually superior to locked encounters.
The "annoying Hollywood talent" I spoke of in my original post really reflects to the obvious NY taxi-cab drivers accents I hear in a lot of NPC's. The auction house guy in North Qeynos is one example, and a lot of the rude NPC's in Freeport is another. The question is should merchants and peasants be openly disrespectful to chainmail-clad customers bearing broadswords? The least they could lose in such an encounter ought to be their business. Just not real, not realistic and can be grating. (Am I alone in thinking Freeport sort of beats you down with the insults a little too much?)
"Get rid of instanced housing." I think for most players, housing could be a non-instanced tavern room they buy a temporary key to get into, log out, and log back on fully rested (with enhanced exp bonus or some other benefit). I think that premium housing should be costly, but non-instanced in that such a dwelling is represented by a real place that other characters can view (and covet). Perhaps players could see you proudly standing on the balcony of your new villa, sipping coffee. But do you run out of real estate in the game? Perhaps. I just know that instanced housing means nothing to me. I usually deleted my furniture and checked out first thing after finishing citizenship quests. Maybe, the zoning is what makes it too much of a hassle to be worth retaining.
We agree on the reintroduction of racial characteristics. I believe that every race (including Humans) ought to have some special advantages which set them apart. For truly and potentially game-imbalancing advantages, such as regeneration, perhaps a counter racial characteristic (being especially vulnerable to fire; taking extra fire damage) mitigates this.
In regard to the market, I do miss the open barter of the East Commons tunnel, but if selling and buying is going to be automated, might as well make it some kind of store where you don't have to be online to sell.
Overall, there are lots of things they could have done differently, and I know they cannot please everyone, but the biggest, biggest, biggest thing they did was to completely alter (and reduce) Norrath. I anticipated a bigger, richer, more detailed Norrath where continents like Odus had vast jungles to explore and Kunark was waiting to be rediscovered.
But, as Charlton Heston said as he sank to his knees before the half buried Statue of Liberty in The Planet of the Apes movie, "you did it, you fools, you finally did it. You blew it up!"
I don't know about you, but I loved Norrath. They had might as well blown up Middle Earth, that's the scale of what has been done to OUR game world.
Did you know that Bing Crosby's White Christmas is the biggest selling single of all time. I bet Justin Timberlake finds that difficult to deal with
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"MMOs, for people that like think chatting is like a skill or something, rotflol"
http://purepwnage.com
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"Far away across the field, the tolling of the iron bell, calls the faithful to their knees. To hear the softly spoken magic spell" Pink Floyd-Dark Side of the Moon
Like it or not, EQ2 is terrible. Not just for some people....its objectively terrible. Some of you maybe havent taken "the red pill" yet...and perhaps never will.
The shared xp debt alone is proof that they should never have been given 25 million and some computers.
They promised to make it more for small parties...they didnt.
They promised to make it more for small guilds...they didnt.
They could have made every character unique by choosing their own template...they didnt. Every cleric looks the same.
There are still GLARING bugs in the game...that havent been fixed.
Im not pimping any other game...they have all recently let me down. Every....single...one.
Darkfall and Mourning look good ...as well as Vanguard but I dont think that has PvP.
I played EQ1 for almost 5 years, but see the errors in it as well. I shudder to think what EQ3 would be like with the crap they've thrown at us in EQ2.
I like shared debt.
My small groups are great and fun.
The small guild I am in is progressing just fine, thanks.
Armor changes have recently been added to avoid having all chars look the same. Some armor was unintentionally looking similar to other types of armor. As itemization grows and the game continues, this won't be such a big deal. Find me a major guild tank in PoP that didn't use the Blade of War right after killing Rallos, and I'll find you a moron. The fact is, this isn't unique to this game at all, and they're working on it.
Yes there are some bugs, some are big deal, other's aren't but I'm enjoying the game overall and they have done a very good job of addressing the major ones first, and doing it as quickly as is possible. On top of that it's an MMO. They all have bugs. All of them.
Maybe you should just give up on MMOs.
As for the WoW comparison posters, I will say this.
I liked everything they did in WoW, all the systems seemed to work pretty much perfectly. The problem is, I didn't like any of them all that much.
While I don't like EVERYTHING they have done with EQ2, I LOVE what they've done with several things alot, and for that I'm willing to put up with the rest. Complex and interesting crafting, a pile of lore, traits, skills, and various historical lore-filled quests, interesting and exciting combat, just to name a few of my favorites. The graphics are another big plus. Not super outstanding, but I can't stand WoW's cartoony look. All of it's personal preference, as it should be.
Habit is not to be flung out the window by any man, but coaxed down the stairs one step at a time. - Mark Twain
I think Billius should buy Dragons of Norrath.
And the next person talkin nicely about WoW, I swear I will puke all over him!
WoW make a game for the casuals at the expense of the ''hardcores'', this is not better then the opposite nor worser, but it is plainly unacceptable. Please the casuals all you want, I see peoples who never make it to 40 in EQ that are 60 in WoW(and they are bored and will leave shortly I assume), good, but what about the players who reach the top in EQ, what can they do and enjoy after they play WoW for 3 weeks and reach the top? Nada, it is not worser then a game that have nothing for the casuals, but it is certainly not any better, someone saying otherwise is prolly not looking farther then their nose and find this a favorable system, Diablo is more hardcore then WoW, so please, stop honey talking a game that offer about nothing. A game that have a subscription fees of $15 per month need to have accomplishments to do, if you have nothing, then you should not charge $15.
- "If I understand you well, you are telling me until next time. " - Ren
Billius8, I don't understand why you keep going on about some of these things
As to classes, first of all there are 24 final classes - not 48. And of the 24, half are evil, with minor variations between the two. So there are 12 good classes and 12 evil classes. How is this too many? And how does it affect you anyway? I don't see how this causes any problem for anyone, and I've rarely heard anyone complain about it. On the contrary, most people always want more classes.
Instanced housing - If you don't want it don't use it. Personally, I am having a lot of fun with my apartment, as are my friends. When I feel like veging out I'll go shop around for something to add and then move things around. I'm going to make one of my alts a craftsman to make stuff for myself and friends. My cat amuses me endlessly, and I plan to add more pets. Okay, so I am an idiot
But I am having fun, and it is, after all a game. How does this affect you in any way? Does it bother you that others like it?
The voiceovers bother you? Turn them off. I generally have them turned off, but I do turn them on now and then because sometimes I find them entertaining. Who in the world focuses on whether somebody's accent is correct ... the same problem has existed in movies and TV forever, so SOE is supposed to obsess over proper casting?
There HAS to be some penalty for death. If there isn't the game is kid stuff. As it is, the shared death penalty isn't even worth mentioning. It is SO easy to overcome I can't believe it when I hear people complain. Honestly, it should be much worse. In order to get any sense of accomplishment in a game, you have to overcome *something*. It boggles my mind how so many current gamers just want game sims ... note I didn't same sim games, I said game sims ... i.e., something that seems like a game but really isn't. You just paint by number yourself through easy steps and pretend you're doing something. A GAME involves challenge.
Anyway, honestly some of this stuff seems to me to be just complaining for the sake of complaining.
Anofalye said:
what can they do and enjoy after they play WoW for 3 weeks and reach the top?
Dude, if anyone does this it's their own fault that there's nothing else to do. I don't think developers should ever have to cater to this type of player, seeing how they are usually the first to leave after burning through all the content, and thus are short term subscribers.
Developers will NEVER be able to satisfy these types, and that is fine, because they do not represtent the majority of the player base.
I play WoW, and I will admit it has it's hand holding elements and it's flaws, but I still find it to be highly enjoyable. I think it's immense popularity right now is a good thing (and not just because i'm playing it), because it's bringing a lot more people to the MMO scene, which is in my opinion a good thing. Sure, some of these people are 'youngins', but they'll grow up in a couple of years.
Anyhow, if you don't like WoW, just leave it alone. Don't constantly flame how bad it sucks if you don't like it, and please don't say you'll puke on anyone that speaks nicely of the game. God forbid they like it.
And in no way do I intend to attack EQ2 either, just because I play WoW. You know what? As soon as I get tired of WoW (which I'm sure I will, it happens with all games), I'm giving EQ2 a spin. Why? Because dang it, it looks good too.
Why does it not surprise me that we couldn't go one thread without someone. Taking a pot shot at WoW instead of discussing EQ2 on the EQ2 forums. Good job Anofalye you are a master of off topic discussion. Take a bow.
In War - Victory.
In Peace - Vigilance.
In Death - Sacrifice.
So how is it that Anofalye gets the title of "Master of OT discusion" when I posted that Bing Crosby's white Xmas is the biggest selling record of all time ?
At least he was talking about MMO's
Geez the lengths you have to go to to get insulted around here make it barely worth trying
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"MMOs, for people that like think chatting is like a skill or something, rotflol"
http://purepwnage.com
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"Far away across the field, the tolling of the iron bell, calls the faithful to their knees. To hear the softly spoken magic spell" Pink Floyd-Dark Side of the Moon
LOL about WoW
It is me that is off topic? I am sorry, but some folks start praising a game I dislike and have spend $60, I am entitled to complain and bitch about it. This is capitalism!
And if anyone praise WoW again in an EQ2 section, I will be more then happy to puke on them!
I am tired of peoples praising endlessly the weakest MMORPG I ever play. Soccer have more supporters then any other sports, it dont make it the best sport despite the fact everyone that can afford a ball can play it, so if you cant stand someone bitching at WoW, dont praise it, especially not outside of the WoW reserve!
Oh, if I am ''efficient and finish the game'' in 3 weeks it is me that is wrong? LOL, no, it is the devs that lack at doing a proper MMORPG job, $15 a month mean that someone playing 300+ hours a month need content for 300 hours every month! Which WoW obviously dont have!
- "If I understand you well, you are telling me until next time. " - Ren
Anofalye, how old are you? Because you sound like your thirteen.
Seriously, why don't I have a right to defend a game, when you OBVIOUSLY have a right to flame it? I really don't give a shit if you spent 60 bucks on the game and didn't like it. That's your problem.
Why do I think you sound like a prepubecent teen? Because of your last paragraph. You actually EXPECT game developers to cater to losers like you who blow through massive games like this in three weeks? Excuse me, but I don't think it's their fault that you don't have a life.
And if you actually do play for 300+ hours a month (I'm sincerely hoping that was an exaggeration), then you cannot convince me in any way, shape or form that you actually DO have a life.
Insulting others peoples is certainly helping your case. I remember arguing with raiders about EQ. They to where insulting me. It seem everyone is extremely selfish and short sighted, catering to 1 group only, be it raiders, be it casuals, be it anything, is unacceptable for a MMORPG.
If it make you feel better insulting my lifestyle, so good for you. But I do have 300 hours a month to spend behind a computer, all the time playing. A MMORPG with a monthlee fee need to be able to consume a lot of this time, otherwise I wont bother and just play Civilisation more. If I take the phone, I will have a classroom and be a high school teacher tomorrow(in French, social studies), yet I assume I must lack maturity and act like a 13 if you say so, but for now, I rather just play then teach, I am not a workholic. Considering that our States want ME to be a teacher for our teens, be afraid if you really think what you say about me, be very afraid indeed!
Althought I will not insult you back DarkenBlade, I promise I would do that, here you go, just for you:
...and again 
. WoW is the lamest game ever, the next step is a game involving pressing space bar and reading YOU WIN! And again for good measures: 
- "If I understand you well, you are telling me until next time. " - Ren
Listen. If I insulted you in any way, I do apologize (although I do think it is a little..em..extreme to spend that much time on a computer).
My main point of contention with what you said involved you insisting that there needs to be constant content for people that play as much as you do. The developers for these games ALREADY spend around 70-80 hours a week fixing bugs and adding the content that harcore players spend all their time blowing through. To expect them to add 2 to 3 times that much content on top of that, simply because you have the time to spare, is selfish I think.
Anofalye, I don't particularly like to insult people, and reading my post again I saw that I did do that. I was in a pretty foul mood when I typed that, and I do apologize. Usually on forums I try to be as civil to a person as I would be to them face-to-face. But, there you have it. The above paragraph illustrates my beef as plainly as I can present it.
Oh, and....WoW RULES FOREVER!!!!!!!!! (heh, sorry...I couldn't help it. Just joking with you
)
I agree Dark.
Ano's kind of a jerk, but I think most people can see that. My favorite part is where he/she calls people out for being self-centered, then posts his/her opinion as fact and vows to shout down anyone who thinks different. Comedy gold.
Habit is not to be flung out the window by any man, but coaxed down the stairs one step at a time. - Mark Twain
Guys,
Oky, I am 13 mentally, I have no life and waste it, I am selfish, I am a jerk because I cant see how WoW is the supreme game? This is all for the insults or you want to add more?
I didnt recall asking for a game where the casuals would be hopelessly crushed, or a game where all non-soloers would be lame, now that would be selfish of me. I just ask for a game that would please all players. As far as Noubourne or Darkblade goes, I see no more point of talking with you then with a door, well...at least the door dont insult peoples.
The EQ community know very well I disagree a lot with them, especially when it come to raiding enforcement, however, they didnt insult as much as you do, and they behave a lot nicer then you WoW trolls are behaving.
I dont recall the any community going to praise endlessly how their game is the best game ever everywhere, endlessly, pointlessly. Yet, when it come to WoW, the peoples seem to think it should be different. Bnet!
The Wish, the DnL, the CoH, the EQ2 community all love their game, but they know when to stop, which the WoW community dont know, and you are aggravating a lot of peoples doing so.
- "If I understand you well, you are telling me until next time. " - Ren
For God's sake man, didn't you read my last post? I freaking APOLOGIZED to you. A lot of good it did, considering you just read right over it. I tried to represent my argument in a logical manner, but obviously you didn't catch on, or only read what you wanted to.
Whatever. I didn't think I was trolling.
