Secondly, within a true open world, you will not, can not know what everyone is doing, or what's mobs are "spawned", because those are more dynamic.
Thirdly, there may be 5 different ways into a particular dungeon, so those who know it well, will have quicker paths to them, etc.
Most, if not all of your suggestions stems around a static moment in a past game (that you've played) and want to extrapolate that into how it will be in archeAge (or a Sandbox).
Open world sandboxes are for doers.. people who site on websites looking up stuff will get overwhelemed in a sandbox world.
"No they are not charity. That is where the whales come in. (I play for free. Whales pays.) Devs get a business. That is how it works."
finally a thread that warms my heart a little. probably a mmorpg.com 1st. 8)
its great to see so many people speak out for an open/virtual world. and against instancing: a.k.a. the death of MMOs.
Instances used right or not the death of anything. The problem is just that the devs use them too much, not that they are in the game as such.
In early EQ2 there were open dungeons but with the endboss instanced so you didn´t have to wait for him to be spawned, that worked excellent. And some instanced dungeons together with some open just adds choices.
It is when you more or less instance everything with a boss in and the use phasing everywhere so you never see more than a few people things get annoying.
I don´t believe that all games needs instances and AA might do fine without it, but the technology in itself isn´t evil, it is just used the wrong way.Not everything is just black and white and a game doesn´t have to be either extremes like DDO or UO.
finally a thread that warms my heart a little. probably a mmorpg.com 1st. 8)
its great to see so many people speak out for an open/virtual world. and against instancing: a.k.a. the death of MMOs.
Instances used right or not the death of anything. The problem is just that the devs use them too much, not that they are in the game as such.
In early EQ2 there were open dungeons but with the endboss instanced so you didn´t have to wait for him to be spawned, that worked excellent. And some instanced dungeons together with some open just adds choices.
It is when you more or less instance everything with a boss in and the use phasing everywhere so you never see more than a few people things get annoying.
I don´t believe that all games needs instances and AA might do fine without it, but the technology in itself isn´t evil, it is just used the wrong way.Not everything is just black and white and a game doesn´t have to be either extremes like DDO or UO.
i'm designing a game. it has some use of instancing. so i'm only %98 against them.
instances as we know them ARE the death of MMOs. whether that matters to you or not varies.
the only acceptable ways i've seen them used so far is Asherons Call 2 (the Vaults, which sound like the exact same thing you mentioned from EQ2), and the ***** PUBLIC ****** instances of Champions Online, which does not kill the world (making it private) but is only used as a bandwidth relief valve.
any other use i've seen (none do them how i plan to) kills the massively in MMOs.
i'm designing a game. it has some use of instancing. so i'm only %98 against them.
instances as we know them ARE the death of MMOs. whether that matters to you or not varies.
the only acceptable ways i've seen them used so far is Asherons Call 2 (the Vaults, which sound like the exact same thing you mentioned from EQ2), and the ***** PUBLIC ****** instances of Champions Online, which does not kill the world (making it private) but is only used as a bandwidth relief valve.
any other use i've seen (none do them how i plan to) kills the massively in MMOs.
Well, as I said, it is really the number that matters.
5 instanced dungeons and 15 open in a game hardly kills it, I prefer open dungeons myself but certain hours they just gets overfilled with players and massive might be good but when there is more players than mobs in a dungeon it gets pretty annoying. If you have a few instanced you don´t have to use phasing to keep the number of players down in all the dungeons.
Some games also instance the first few levels you play so you learn the ropes, that works really well in most games particularly PvP games since it sucks to get killed before you figured out how the game controls even works.
Most of the game should happen in open zones, PvE or PvP, there I agree but as long as you just have a few instances it does not destroy the feeling of playing a massive game, at least not to me.
First time I saw instanced dungeons was in Everquest in 2000 somethin`, can't remember exactly when it was or if EQ was first MMO to introduce them but I never really liked instancing of any kind. It just goes against everything a MMORPG stands for, or at least what it stood for in late 90's early 2000`s and what I think it should stand for. IMO instancing was the first step towards screwing up the genre and then the disaster called WoW came along heh.
This is one of the reasons i love Vanguard and have played it for 5+ plus years.Vast open world that puts all other fantasy mmo to shame,the world is seruously huge and on top of that it has non instanced dungeons,outside and inside are totally open.I played EQ and LDON was a sad day indeed when they released that expansion for EQ.The dungeons in Vanguard are like nothing you have experianced before in a mmo.Oh and for those who keep saying AA is a totally sandbox MMO,well its not a totally sandbox MMO so dont be supprised if Jake and crew do introduce some more instanced dungeons to join the two that are already in the game.I can see the game having both.
i'm designing a game. it has some use of instancing. so i'm only %98 against them.
instances as we know them ARE the death of MMOs. whether that matters to you or not varies.
the only acceptable ways i've seen them used so far is Asherons Call 2 (the Vaults, which sound like the exact same thing you mentioned from EQ2), and the ***** PUBLIC ****** instances of Champions Online, which does not kill the world (making it private) but is only used as a bandwidth relief valve.
any other use i've seen (none do them how i plan to) kills the massively in MMOs.
Well, as I said, it is really the number that matters.
5 instanced dungeons and 15 open in a game hardly kills it, I prefer open dungeons myself but certain hours they just gets overfilled with players and massive might be good but when there is more players than mobs in a dungeon it gets pretty annoying. If you have a few instanced you don´t have to use phasing to keep the number of players down in all the dungeons.
Some games also instance the first few levels you play so you learn the ropes, that works really well in most games particularly PvP games since it sucks to get killed before you figured out how the game controls even works.
Most of the game should happen in open zones, PvE or PvP, there I agree but as long as you just have a few instances it does not destroy the feeling of playing a massive game, at least not to me.
it might not kill it for the rest of the world, but it kills it for those 5 dungeons. and rather than being private, they should be public instances IMO. where CO could have improved on their setup is giving people a setting where they can choose from at least 3 options (if not more). light, medium & heavy population. at one time i even thought people should be given the option for ANY zone or dungeon to be totally private for players who choose. and i might even try it, but if it sapped away too many people from the public world, i'd take away the option. but they could still choose a Light Population setting. also by having those settings you would not get an immersion weakening instance selection screen, and that could all apply to ALL dungeons/regions, so people would never have that problem of there being "too many" players.
i think starter levels and tutorials is an acceptable use. i forgot i'd experienced that in LOTRO. but LOTRO overdid it by keeping you away from the living world for like 6 levels or so. should be 1 or 2 levels at most IMO.
it might not kill it for the rest of the world, but it kills it for those 5 dungeons. and rather than being private, they should be public instances IMO. where CO could have improved on their setup is giving people a setting where they can choose from at least 3 options (if not more). light, medium & heavy population. at one time i even thought people should be given the option for ANY zone or dungeon to be totally private for players who choose. and i might even try it, but if it sapped away too many people from the public world, i'd take away the option. but they could still choose a Light Population setting. also by having those settings you would not get an immersion weakening instance selection screen, and that could all apply to ALL dungeons/regions, so people would never have that problem of there being "too many" players.
i think starter levels and tutorials is an acceptable use. i forgot i'd experienced that in LOTRO. but LOTRO overdid it by keeping you away from the living world for like 6 levels or so. should be 1 or 2 levels at most IMO.
Can´t say I played CO but it might work as well, yes.
And yeah, it don´t have to take hours or anything but it is nice to figure out the basic by yourself at least so you don´t look pathetic as soon as you enter the game. Some game allows you to skip the area directly if you so wish and that is probably the best so you can stay 1-5 levels, that means everyone gets the time they need but noone is forced to stay in a boring tutorial longer than they must.
i'm designing a game. it has some use of instancing. so i'm only %98 against them.
instances as we know them ARE the death of MMOs. whether that matters to you or not varies.
the only acceptable ways i've seen them used so far is Asherons Call 2 (the Vaults, which sound like the exact same thing you mentioned from EQ2), and the ***** PUBLIC ****** instances of Champions Online, which does not kill the world (making it private) but is only used as a bandwidth relief valve.
any other use i've seen (none do them how i plan to) kills the massively in MMOs.
Well, as I said, it is really the number that matters.
5 instanced dungeons and 15 open in a game hardly kills it, I prefer open dungeons myself but certain hours they just gets overfilled with players and massive might be good but when there is more players than mobs in a dungeon it gets pretty annoying. If you have a few instanced you don´t have to use phasing to keep the number of players down in all the dungeons.
Some games also instance the first few levels you play so you learn the ropes, that works really well in most games particularly PvP games since it sucks to get killed before you figured out how the game controls even works.
Most of the game should happen in open zones, PvE or PvP, there I agree but as long as you just have a few instances it does not destroy the feeling of playing a massive game, at least not to me.
i think starter levels and tutorials is an acceptable use. i forgot i'd experienced that in LOTRO. but LOTRO overdid it by keeping you away from the living world for like 6 levels or so. should be 1 or 2 levels at most IMO.
LOTRO didn't over do it at all.You do realize that the start of the game is your part of the story but everyone who is below level six and playing the same race is in the instance with you.
Using LOTRO is a bad example because it's nothing like what the OP is talking about.
i'm designing a game. it has some use of instancing. so i'm only %98 against them.
instances as we know them ARE the death of MMOs. whether that matters to you or not varies.
the only acceptable ways i've seen them used so far is Asherons Call 2 (the Vaults, which sound like the exact same thing you mentioned from EQ2), and the ***** PUBLIC ****** instances of Champions Online, which does not kill the world (making it private) but is only used as a bandwidth relief valve.
any other use i've seen (none do them how i plan to) kills the massively in MMOs.
Well, as I said, it is really the number that matters.
5 instanced dungeons and 15 open in a game hardly kills it, I prefer open dungeons myself but certain hours they just gets overfilled with players and massive might be good but when there is more players than mobs in a dungeon it gets pretty annoying. If you have a few instanced you don´t have to use phasing to keep the number of players down in all the dungeons.
Some games also instance the first few levels you play so you learn the ropes, that works really well in most games particularly PvP games since it sucks to get killed before you figured out how the game controls even works.
Most of the game should happen in open zones, PvE or PvP, there I agree but as long as you just have a few instances it does not destroy the feeling of playing a massive game, at least not to me.
i think starter levels and tutorials is an acceptable use. i forgot i'd experienced that in LOTRO. but LOTRO overdid it by keeping you away from the living world for like 6 levels or so. should be 1 or 2 levels at most IMO.
LOTRO didn't over do it at all.You do realize that the start of the game is your part of the story but everyone who is below level six and playing the same race is in the instance with you.
Using LOTRO is a bad example because it's nothing like what the OP is talking about.
everything i've said in this thread is a total side tangent to what the OP said. it has NOTHING to do with the OP. its only relation is that its a tangent about instancing. so using HIM to talk to ME is a bad example. 8)
i went thru the dwarf, elf, human starter areas. don't remember seeing any other players until after the end (like Archet burning down). regardless of whether its possible to see players from levels 1-6, its an instance segregated from the proper open world. and it was WAY overdone to make you go thru that many levels off in a sidepocket like that. its cool to hear that it actually WAS public, phasing is better than being totally private, but it woulda been ALOT cooler to be part of the main world within a level or 2, cuz once i got out in the main world, it shifted and suddenly i felt like i was in a proper MMO (a world alive with other players). at least for awhile, until i saw how much later content was in private instances. and they are MANDATORY, because you get practically no XP for killing things you don't have a quest for. another modern MMO crime, but i'm getting off on another tangent now........
being in "my part" of a story is not a justification for it. in fact its a good example of why its one of the inherent problems of shoehorning premade "interactive" stories directly into your gameplay.
yes that all depends on your tastes/preferences.... blah blah blah, no need to talk about all the basics of life.
Oh and for those who keep saying AA is a totally sandbox MMO,well its not a totally sandbox MMO so dont be supprised if Jake and crew do introduce some more instanced dungeons to join the two that are already in the game.I can see the game having both.
Misinformation. The only instance in AA is the battleground. The 2 instances you mentioned were in CBT3 but were removed.
Comments
Have u never heard of contended mobs..?
Secondly, within a true open world, you will not, can not know what everyone is doing, or what's mobs are "spawned", because those are more dynamic.
Thirdly, there may be 5 different ways into a particular dungeon, so those who know it well, will have quicker paths to them, etc.
Most, if not all of your suggestions stems around a static moment in a past game (that you've played) and want to extrapolate that into how it will be in archeAge (or a Sandbox).
Open world sandboxes are for doers.. people who site on websites looking up stuff will get overwhelemed in a sandbox world.
"No they are not charity. That is where the whales come in. (I play for free. Whales pays.) Devs get a business. That is how it works."
-Nariusseldon
finally a thread that warms my heart a little. probably a mmorpg.com 1st. 8)
its great to see so many people speak out for an open/virtual world. and against instancing: a.k.a. the death of MMOs.
---------------------------
Corpus Callosum
---------------------------
Instances used right or not the death of anything. The problem is just that the devs use them too much, not that they are in the game as such.
In early EQ2 there were open dungeons but with the endboss instanced so you didn´t have to wait for him to be spawned, that worked excellent. And some instanced dungeons together with some open just adds choices.
It is when you more or less instance everything with a boss in and the use phasing everywhere so you never see more than a few people things get annoying.
I don´t believe that all games needs instances and AA might do fine without it, but the technology in itself isn´t evil, it is just used the wrong way.Not everything is just black and white and a game doesn´t have to be either extremes like DDO or UO.
i'm designing a game. it has some use of instancing. so i'm only %98 against them.
instances as we know them ARE the death of MMOs. whether that matters to you or not varies.
the only acceptable ways i've seen them used so far is Asherons Call 2 (the Vaults, which sound like the exact same thing you mentioned from EQ2), and the ***** PUBLIC ****** instances of Champions Online, which does not kill the world (making it private) but is only used as a bandwidth relief valve.
any other use i've seen (none do them how i plan to) kills the massively in MMOs.
---------------------------
Corpus Callosum
---------------------------
Well, as I said, it is really the number that matters.
5 instanced dungeons and 15 open in a game hardly kills it, I prefer open dungeons myself but certain hours they just gets overfilled with players and massive might be good but when there is more players than mobs in a dungeon it gets pretty annoying. If you have a few instanced you don´t have to use phasing to keep the number of players down in all the dungeons.
Some games also instance the first few levels you play so you learn the ropes, that works really well in most games particularly PvP games since it sucks to get killed before you figured out how the game controls even works.
Most of the game should happen in open zones, PvE or PvP, there I agree but as long as you just have a few instances it does not destroy the feeling of playing a massive game, at least not to me.
This is one of the reasons i love Vanguard and have played it for 5+ plus years.Vast open world that puts all other fantasy mmo to shame,the world is seruously huge and on top of that it has non instanced dungeons,outside and inside are totally open.I played EQ and LDON was a sad day indeed when they released that expansion for EQ.The dungeons in Vanguard are like nothing you have experianced before in a mmo.Oh and for those who keep saying AA is a totally sandbox MMO,well its not a totally sandbox MMO so dont be supprised if Jake and crew do introduce some more instanced dungeons to join the two that are already in the game.I can see the game having both.it might not kill it for the rest of the world, but it kills it for those 5 dungeons. and rather than being private, they should be public instances IMO. where CO could have improved on their setup is giving people a setting where they can choose from at least 3 options (if not more). light, medium & heavy population. at one time i even thought people should be given the option for ANY zone or dungeon to be totally private for players who choose. and i might even try it, but if it sapped away too many people from the public world, i'd take away the option. but they could still choose a Light Population setting. also by having those settings you would not get an immersion weakening instance selection screen, and that could all apply to ALL dungeons/regions, so people would never have that problem of there being "too many" players.
i think starter levels and tutorials is an acceptable use. i forgot i'd experienced that in LOTRO. but LOTRO overdid it by keeping you away from the living world for like 6 levels or so. should be 1 or 2 levels at most IMO.
---------------------------
Corpus Callosum
---------------------------
Can´t say I played CO but it might work as well, yes.
And yeah, it don´t have to take hours or anything but it is nice to figure out the basic by yourself at least so you don´t look pathetic as soon as you enter the game. Some game allows you to skip the area directly if you so wish and that is probably the best so you can stay 1-5 levels, that means everyone gets the time they need but noone is forced to stay in a boring tutorial longer than they must.
LOTRO didn't over do it at all.You do realize that the start of the game is your part of the story but everyone who is below level six and playing the same race is in the instance with you.
Using LOTRO is a bad example because it's nothing like what the OP is talking about.
everything i've said in this thread is a total side tangent to what the OP said. it has NOTHING to do with the OP. its only relation is that its a tangent about instancing. so using HIM to talk to ME is a bad example. 8)
i went thru the dwarf, elf, human starter areas. don't remember seeing any other players until after the end (like Archet burning down). regardless of whether its possible to see players from levels 1-6, its an instance segregated from the proper open world. and it was WAY overdone to make you go thru that many levels off in a sidepocket like that. its cool to hear that it actually WAS public, phasing is better than being totally private, but it woulda been ALOT cooler to be part of the main world within a level or 2, cuz once i got out in the main world, it shifted and suddenly i felt like i was in a proper MMO (a world alive with other players). at least for awhile, until i saw how much later content was in private instances. and they are MANDATORY, because you get practically no XP for killing things you don't have a quest for. another modern MMO crime, but i'm getting off on another tangent now........
being in "my part" of a story is not a justification for it. in fact its a good example of why its one of the inherent problems of shoehorning premade "interactive" stories directly into your gameplay.
yes that all depends on your tastes/preferences.... blah blah blah, no need to talk about all the basics of life.
---------------------------
Corpus Callosum
---------------------------
Misinformation. The only instance in AA is the battleground. The 2 instances you mentioned were in CBT3 but were removed.