Howdy, Stranger!
It looks like you're new here. If you want to get involved, click one of these buttons!
Quick Links
Does Retention Matter?
Vhaln
Member Posts: 3,159
I've seen a few comments about GW2, to the effect of something like, since it's B2P, it doesn't need an endgame, it doesn't need retention, it doesn't need any of that, because they aren't invested in keeping players subscribing month after month. They can focus on just making the leveling experience fun, and that's enough.
..but, is a subscription really that much different than wanting people to buy xpacs? Or even to have a thriving game that will keep selling more and more boxes, due to its popularity? I mean, of course being B2P is a big difference in some ways, but in terms of retention?
Just seems to me that for a lot of players, once they leave an MMO, they move on, without really looking back. Even if there isn't a sub to worry about. So I'm just wondering if retention might really be just as important for GW2 as it is for any other MMO. They do still want a thriving game, that's going to sell expansions, and whatever else, right?
When I want a single-player story, I'll play a single-player game. When I play an MMO, I want a massively multiplayer world.
Comments
Players are a lot more inclined to look back at a game if they dont have to re-sub. GW1 is proof of that.
Waiting for:EQ-Next, ArcheAge (not so much anymore)
Now Playing: N/A
Worst MMO: FFXIV
Favorite MMO: FFXI
Probably wont matter for this game since its b2p. No way to track "active" player number accurately. This game can have 1k people logging in on regular basis but they can still advertise it as 500k sold! Which is a + for sales.
Currently Playing: SSFIV AE, SFxTekken, SWTOR, WoW. Waiting for: GW2, Resident Evil 6.
Oh by the way endgame is the game itself.
What's funny is sub games with endgames still struggle with retention because in all honesty it's not quantity it's quality and if not high quality then it got to be good in both and that has yet to happen.
You don't need endgame like other mmos to hold retention you want the whole game to do that and only time will tell and only God knows but if you don't believe in him then believe in time because it will give you the actually answer when it comes.
I could imagine it being hard to adapt too.
I might get banned for this. - Rizel Star.
I'm not afraid to tell trolls what they [need] to hear, even if that means for me to have an forced absence afterwards.
P2P LOGIC = If it's P2P it means longevity, overall better game, and THE BEST SUPPORT EVER!!!!!(Which has been rinsed and repeated about a thousand times)
Common Sense Logic = P2P logic is no better than F2P Logic.
More, but how much more? So much more that the game doesn't need to worry about retention at all? I think that's only true of some players, but no idea how many.
When I want a single-player story, I'll play a single-player game. When I play an MMO, I want a massively multiplayer world.
it will definitely matter as far as the players go, people want to feel like there are other players in game with them. financially, there's no sub so not really.
I think "classic" endgame are a requirement for MMOs to hold players. WoW is what it is for its raids and pvp. SWTOR is doing allright atm too. EQ did well for many years. "Internet hype" unfortuntely don't hold up very well against the real world buyers. If internet reflected on what society thinks then Ron Paul would have been president 8 times over by now.
Currently Playing: SSFIV AE, SFxTekken, SWTOR, WoW. Waiting for: GW2, Resident Evil 6.
What's the point of an MMO that has no retention?
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson
Maybe, but it also drives a lot of players away. I know a lot of people won't touch mmos because of that end game raiding gear grind crap.
With no subscription I think more people would be inclinded to check back or play when they feel like it. Since people don't unsubscribe they might get bored and quit for a bit but the door is always freely open... I don't think retention is really an issue at all with that business model.
"classification of games into MMOs is not by rational reasoning" - nariusseldon
Love Minecraft. And check out my Youtube channel OhCanadaGamer
Try a MUD today at http://www.mudconnect.com/Yeah but the good thing is even if this game had very poor retention it can still advertise it as x amount sold. And maybe sell more copies that way.
Currently Playing: SSFIV AE, SFxTekken, SWTOR, WoW. Waiting for: GW2, Resident Evil 6.
What's the key to retention? The people you play with.
Why even create an "MMO" if you do not plan to keep people playing for long periods? This thinking makes no sense to me, of course retention matters, the whole point of an MMO is to keep people playing (sub or not), that's the whole point of the genre.
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson
And yet there are so many subsciption based games out there that fail to retain the majority of their players for a substantial amount of time and they all seem to end up going F2P now.
Yes but if that's all that mattered my TOR guild would still be at 100% retention. We've played together for years (since 03) and love playing together.
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson
GW has less of a problem with retention because people don't have to pay a sub to keep going back. Just last weekend, GW had over 140 instances of Shing Jea Monastary active. For a 7 year old game, thats pretty good retention.
All of my posts are either intelligent, thought provoking, funny, satirical, sarcastic or intentionally disrespectful. Take your pick.
I get banned in the forums for games I love, so lets see if I do better in the forums for games I hate.
I enjoy the serenity of not caring what your opinion is.
I don't hate much, but I hate Apple© with a passion. If Steve Jobs was alive, I would punch him in the face.
So? that's what makes many games unfun today, as again there's no point in an MMO that doesn't keep a large chunk of players around for long periods of time. By large I mean a couple thousand per server. These games aren't designed to be played without a constant healthy population.
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson
Well I agree that the game has to be engaging as well. However, if you take out the social aspect of mmos, they become very poor single player games.
WoW basically turned into an expensive chat room for me the last 6 years I played. I hated the gameplay but really enjoyed the guild and the people I played with. If not for them, I would have stopped playing WoW after a month.
This is true, but I could apply what you just said to your initial post and it would be just as true. You don't know that "a lot of players" avoid a game once they've moved on entirely. It really depends on why they left the game in the first place. If they didn't like it, they have no reason to go back, sure. But if they left just because they ran out of things they wanted to do, they're inclined to go back to the game when the game is updated. I don't play GW1 constantly, but I went back and bought and played every expansion when they debuted, and I've been going back to play all of the recent updates to the game as well. Once I complete them, I stop playing again.
I do this with every game I like. Champions Online has a new expansion/storyline, I go play it, then I ignore the game again. City of Heroes got Incarnate, I went back, got my incarnate maxed on my main, then ignore it again. Dragon Nest, I've done everything I can short of gear grind (which I hate, so I don't do), so I quit, but everytime there's a level cap increase or new dungeon, I go back and play again until I've worn it out, then move on again. So on, and so forth. I'm betting people will do the game with GW2
"Forums aren't for intelligent discussion; they're for blow-hards with unwavering opinions."
First, I think your observation that once players leave an MMO once, they're gone for good is very subjective. Many other players will tell quite the opposite story--that they have friends and guildmates who "quit" for months at a time only to inevitably return once again. It definitely goes both ways and varies by player.
Second, of course any game developer would like a high retention rate--that is, they would like their players to continue playing. Even in GW2's b2p model, more players who continue to play means more future expansions or DLC sold. Even if players do not continue to log on daily, as long as the game was awesome enough that players look forward to future content, that must be considered "retention" in GW2's case. If not from a financial standpoint, as developers who are passionate about their work of art, they surely want players to continue to have an enjoyable experience for as long as possible.
I assure you retention is important to the developers--if not for their wallets or ego, then for their passion as artists and creators.
I don't think the numbers that are publicly advertised are of concern to the OP's question. It's all about how many players actually do continue to play, and how many do continue to purchase future expansion content--regardless of what we, the players see in the stats.
I agree, but I will point out that I couldn't play WOW with my guild
(that was their pick after SWG). Just couldn't do it.. Heh
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson
I think "classic" endgame are a requirement for MMOs to hold players. WoW is what it is for its raids and pvp. SWTOR is doing allright atm too. EQ did well for many years. "Internet hype" unfortuntely don't hold up very well against the real world buyers. If internet reflected on what society thinks then Ron Paul would have been president 8 times over by now.
Alright let's be real only wow and Eq did classic endgame right and no it is t a requirement.The classic endgame is a requirement an it sure as hell isn't a requirement. It almost funny because every game since wow to use that classic endgame has went...
I might get banned for this. - Rizel Star.
I'm not afraid to tell trolls what they [need] to hear, even if that means for me to have an forced absence afterwards.
P2P LOGIC = If it's P2P it means longevity, overall better game, and THE BEST SUPPORT EVER!!!!!(Which has been rinsed and repeated about a thousand times)
Common Sense Logic = P2P logic is no better than F2P Logic.
Subscription based need to hold the players all the time.
B2P like Guild Wars only need them to buy the box + expansion packs. Of course people must still feel a connection to the game, they need a reason to buy it, if they think "boring" they won't buy it. But if an expansion pack comes out every six months, and the only play exactly one day, after which they burned through the new content, it's not a problem for ArenaNet, as long as there are still enough people overall.
As this is still the case with Guild Wars after 7 years, i don't see why Guild Wars 2 would have problems.
It's like when people renew their subscription each month only to play only a few hours. It's only a problem if the do not renew it, not if the do not play all the time.
I'll wait to the day's end when the moon is high
And then I'll rise with the tide with a lust for life, I'll
Amass an army, and we'll harness a horde
And then we'll limp across the land until we stand at the shore
Well, yeah. I'm not trying to knock the B2P model AT ALL. I'm just thinking either way, retention is still important. Personally, I agree with Distopia, that it's even part of what makes MMOs worth playing, regardless of payment model. If I think the game is just going to dead-end at lv.50, I won't have much interest in even getting there.
When I want a single-player story, I'll play a single-player game. When I play an MMO, I want a massively multiplayer world.
Hence the question mark. I'm not trying to prove anything. I'm trying to get some discussion going here, because its something I'm curious about.
When I want a single-player story, I'll play a single-player game. When I play an MMO, I want a massively multiplayer world.
Your right but not having to pay 15$ a month is a huge reason to play the game. I probably wouldn't have played Guild Wars half as much if it had a sub to keep up.
"classification of games into MMOs is not by rational reasoning" - nariusseldon
Love Minecraft. And check out my Youtube channel OhCanadaGamer
Try a MUD today at http://www.mudconnect.com/