To answer the OP: The Cinematic Animations. Everytime I viewed one I cringed alittle because how awful some of them looked. Especially when they try to have facial expressions. One of the most touted feature of the game and it looked bad to me. It is the main reason I'm not playing the game.
I have always felt like MMOS live and die by their comunites. People play MMOS long after they should have quit, because of the people they play with, the enemies they have made and the reputation they have gained inside the game world.
When I hit the low-mid 30's on my Jedi Consular... and just lost all motivation.
Then made a Jedi Knight and played till like 27... then lost all motivation.
Then got my motivation back and got my Consular to 50... then lost all motivation to log onto her again after I finished my class story line.
Made a trooper and had a good time playing till about 17... then lost all motivation.
Hmmm...
Not being rude at all, but were you not the guy defending SWTOR against even constructive critics? Going to play every class for the story alone, yielding 1000's of hours of gameplay? Defending the choices they made that were obvious mistakes?
Not that you were every overly rude but you were close at times with people who pretty much voiced the exact same things you are saying now. It just took them a week instead of 2 months I guess.
LOL like I said not being rude to you, but it is amusing to see such a turn around about ToR in what? 6 weeks?.
Maybe want to play that next game for a month or two before shooting people down for stating flaws of your new shiny game. Just a thought
Amusing indeed. Half the fun of these forums is observing overly hyped individuals deflate right in front of your eyes. One of the reasons I tend to avoid defending unreleased games that I have never played
"Mr. Rothstein, your people never will understand... the way it works out here. You're all just our guests. But you act like you're at home. Let me tell you something, partner. You ain't home. But that's where we're gonna send you if it harelips the governor." - Pat Webb
Not being rude at all, but were you not the guy defending SWTOR against even constructive critics? Going to play every class for the story alone, yielding 1000's of hours of gameplay? Defending the choices they made that were obvious mistakes?
Not that you were every overly rude but you were close at times with people who pretty much voiced the exact same things you are saying now. It just took them a week instead of 2 months I guess.
LOL like I said not being rude to you, but it is amusing to see such a turn around about ToR in what? 6 weeks?.
Maybe want to play that next game for a month or two before shooting people down for stating flaws of your new shiny game. Just a thought
Eh...I'm not going to take them to task. Knew it would happen with many of them anyways. Besides, without pointing to anyone specifically there are more than a few around here that have done a 180 on this game.
It is amusing to see but not gonna rub it in.
Hell, there are even some others in this thread.
1. For god's sake mmo gamers, enough with the analogies. They're unnecessary and your comparisons are terrible, dissimilar, and illogical.
2. To posters feeling the need to state how f2p really isn't f2p: Players understand the concept. You aren't privy to some secret the rest are missing. You're embarrassing yourself.
3. Yes, Cpt. Obvious, we're not industry experts. Now run along and let the big people use the forums for their purpose.
Not being rude at all, but were you not the guy defending SWTOR against even constructive critics? Going to play every class for the story alone, yielding 1000's of hours of gameplay? Defending the choices they made that were obvious mistakes?
Not that you were every overly rude but you were close at times with people who pretty much voiced the exact same things you are saying now. It just took them a week instead of 2 months I guess.
LOL like I said not being rude to you, but it is amusing to see such a turn around about ToR in what? 6 weeks?.
Maybe want to play that next game for a month or two before shooting people down for stating flaws of your new shiny game. Just a thought
Eh...I'm not going to take them to task. Knew it would happen with many of them anyways. Besides, without pointing to anyone specifically there are more than a few around here that have done a 180 on this game.
It is amusing to see but not gonna rub it in.
Hell, there are even some others in this thread.
I personally think some should be taken to task especially some more than others. Some of these were the worst who couldn't even handle constructive critics of the game and imo were rude.Here they are moaning about the same things they was defending about the game,it's actually pathetic.
Many have done the same thing but have slunked of with their tails between their legs,you can't ever take these people seriously again.
They can't even use the "they nerf my toon" excuse lol.
When I was in the open beta with two other friends and we found that the game was not only more natually played ungrouped, many mmos start that way, but we also found that we didn't want to be in ventrillo together while we played because people would talk as you were in a cutscene and it would be distracting. It was at that point that I realized that the game was actually encouraging us to be less social and involved with each other.
Some games don't do a good job pulling people together but I had never seen one actually encourage people in a guild, who already like each other and like to play with each other to actually do less of that.
TOR is a great game. I just don't think it is a great MMO.
Not sure what to tell ya other than I enjoy the game. I remember playing wow when it came out, and it made me want to pull my hair out. The game had major issues and crashes. Still can't make everyone happy I guess.....
I also immediately grade an MMO by such things. If you can't sit in a chair then there hasn't been much detail given to being able to "live" in a game. Course I'm old school sandbox oriented and believe a game only has lasting power if you can "build" something within it ( beyond a guild ).
For me, it was something very simple. I arrived on Hutta and saw the incredibly detailed if lifeless scenery. That wasn't a problem, I expected that from EQ2. I didn't even mind the fact that it wasn't really scenery at all, just a series of pathways; I knew this was going to be a very limited themepark game anyway. No, what got me was that when I returned to the cantina to hand in my mission, I couldn't sit down on a chair. Now, I don't know how difficult that would be to programme or animate but I do recognise that somewhere along the line, someone in Bioware or EA said: 'Siting? Too expensive to develop. Fuck them if they want to sit down, they can squat on the floor. I don't remember Han and Chewie sitting down, do you?'. And it was then I realised this game was bad.
What the first indication to you - either in a statement or press release issued before the game or in your own personal experience during beta or post-launch - that this game was deeply flawed?
There isn't perfection in a mmorpg. Therefore they will always be flawed.
Kyleran: "Now there's the real trick, learning to accept and enjoy a game for what
it offers rather than pass on what might be a great playing experience
because it lacks a few features you prefer."
John Henry Newman: "A man would do nothing if he waited until he could do it so well that no one could find fault."
FreddyNoNose: "A good game needs no defense; a bad game has no defense." "Easily digested content is just as easily forgotten."
LacedOpium: "So the question that begs to be asked is, if you are not interested in
the game mechanics that define the MMORPG genre, then why are you
playing an MMORPG?"
For me, it was something very simple. I arrived on Hutta and saw the incredibly detailed if lifeless scenery. That wasn't a problem, I expected that from EQ2. I didn't even mind the fact that it wasn't really scenery at all, just a series of pathways; I knew this was going to be a very limited themepark game anyway. No, what got me was that when I returned to the cantina to hand in my mission, I couldn't sit down on a chair. Now, I don't know how difficult that would be to programme or animate but I do recognise that somewhere along the line, someone in Bioware or EA said: 'Siting? Too expensive to develop. Fuck them if they want to sit down, they can squat on the floor. I don't remember Han and Chewie sitting down, do you?'. And it was then I realised this game was bad.
What the first indication to you - either in a statement or press release issued before the game or in your own personal experience during beta or post-launch - that this game was deeply flawed?
Haven't left yet but....
When you travel to the super secret Revanite compound. So super secret, the thing has a public transportation hub!
The quest turn in for a SI where one of the rewards is a double bladed lightsaber. Only problem is that you can't use such a thing as a sorc. now I was smart and didn't click it. But why even offer it?
A quest where telling the truth granted a bit of dark side points, but lying resulted in a substantial amount of light side points. lolwut?
The story quest on NS as a SI. Yes, you are to fight a battle with your force effected, where it is supposed to be only lightsabers. And fighting with just a light saber as a Sith Sorc is going to be a bit of a challenge. I almost do it, but die. So I simply self-revive in the same zone, seethe a bit, and I have full force and full force regen. Even though the boss is back at full health, I now drop him in about 20 seconds. Only quest I've done so far where it actually pays to die.
These sort of things tell me that they didn't put a lot of thought into how their game is designed. That is just the first 30 levels. I'm not taking beef with flawed mechanics, what they did or didn't include.
I'm going off of what is supposed to be the selling point of the game: The story. And before i've even hit level 30, I've found 4 instances that completely break continuity of the story.
I knew within 30 min of playing beta, and after 1 hour of playing, I couldnt even force myself to play it anymore because everything was so linear just like the everything else released.
Any/Every game that follows this same formula will suffer the same fate. It doesnt matter what title is slapped on it. Majority of gammers only can stomach this type of game for roughly 90 days. These overly simplified easy mode game on rails just dont last. but then again i highly doubt that bioware spent multi-multi-million dollars on this game. Its just too cheeply made, to shallow, and not a lot of creativity. I am sure from a business it has already made a profit from all the sheepies who bought this game.
Waiting for:EQ-Next, ArcheAge (not so much anymore) Now Playing: N/A Worst MMO: FFXIV Favorite MMO: FFXI
Well I had kindof forgotten about the game tbh (not a sw fan) and then I saw the release date announcement talk at eurogamer and it just didn't feel right. It felt too early and I just got the feeling from the way they talked in the vid that they werent quite sold on their own game. Perhaps its just me, but sometimes I think I detect a hint of a lack of conviction.. I remember the same with AoC demos..
On the other hand I fell hook. line and sinker for the WAR podcasts... but I still reckon the marketing guys really didn't know their game was flawed.
war was a better game imo (until bioware changed the rvr rules and loot to make it more wow like)
While the sum of the game didn't work they had some individual good ideas / improvements. like PQs (but overdone), good LFG interface, best acheivement interface yet, tank pvp mechanics (which SWTOR didnt do as well due to differences in how shields / block work) etc..
Oh and it could handle a hundred or so people on screen rather than like 10.
They claim to have spent 100s of millions on a game that isn't even good enough to be F2P. I wonder where all the money actually went? It wasn't VA or cinimatics, they don't cost that much.
Voice actors - of the sort bioware use, cost more than programmers.
Well, I first thought SWTOR wasn't something I'd play when I heard that Electronic Arts was behind it. I'm sorry if you're a fan or something, but I really don't trust EA to deliver anything above average. Anyway, I probably shouldn't say this, but I'm also not really a fan of Star Wars. The gist of it is just that I don't like EA, don't like Bioware, don't like Star Wars and don't like the graphical style the game has. I know 90% of the population will completely disagree with all of those points, but hey, it's my opinion.
When Bioware under EA announced they were making a Knights of the Old Republic MMO trying to be a single player and MMO at the same time.
Basically this.
When the game was in pre-production, I saw a VAST number of red flags, pointed them out for which I was banned multiple times, labelled a "hater", a "troll", yelled abuses at, etc. all on this very site.
I knew of BioWare's technical inexpertise from their SRPGs. This was point one. As events have played out, SWTOR is filled with bugs, broken combat, etc.
Secondly, I was familiar with how good BioWare/EA are hyping their playerbase. I saw this play out again with SWTOR - BiowarEA whipped the MMO playerbase into a bunch of drooling fanboys based on cinematics that featured no gameplay whatsoever.
Thirdly, the release date. The game had been cooking in the oven since 2006. The industry was buzzing with the release date being spring 2010 (this was info from EA HQ really because they did not contradict it whatsoever). Spring 2010 came and went and we did not even see a beta. People were then predicting that it would be out by Summer 2011. Still, not a word from BW/EA. So this was the third huge red flag. When the game is as in limbo as SWTOR was, you just know it is off the rails.
Fourthly, the NDA. Here's a comparison: WoW - Cataclysm went into Friends and Family alpha in early 2010. It went into closed beta in early summer 2010. The NDA lifted mid summer of the same year. SWTOR? NDA did not lift till like 3 weeks before release. SHADY! or what?
Honestly, I could go on... I could bring up EA Louse's points, or how EA cannibalized Mythic to form BioWare Mythic to speed up the development of the hot mess that is SWTOR. But yes, the aforementioned points were huge indicators that SWTOR was going to be a HOT MESS.
"Never argue with a fool; onlookers may not be able to tell the difference."
At first I didn't really like the game but after picking my advanced class I am having a lot of fun. I'm on my second lvl 25 character now but it really seems like a solid mmo so far. I will admit I did not enjoy lvls 1-9 and 10-12 (13 I got a run speed buff) were kind of slow going. The space missions are fun but can become repetitive but then again what about an mmo pve isnt? This just gives you another way to level up.
"I'm sorry but your mmo has been diagnosed with EA and only has X number of days to live."
8. Besides the voiceovers and cut scenes, everything else has a "been there done that" feeling except with a twist that here you can use a light saber (with sounds).
It may seem trivial to some but one of the biggest issues to me was the lifeless feel of the worlds. I got into the very first Hutta 01 testing squadron. I believe it was sometime in the summer of 2010. Anyway.
I, and a few others, have commented on the lifeless feel of the game, or at least Hutta, since we were restricted to only 1 planet. I didn't think much of it at the time being that the game was in early beta. I figured that they have more pressing issues to deal with and that they'll get it done closer to launch.
Last summer, I got into the Magid marketing focus group test, which didn't have any restrictions and we basically had the whole game available to us. I got to about level 35. The game felt just as lifeless. Again, I and many others, submitted our suggestions on the forums as well as the daily questionare we had to fill out. Didn't make huge deal about it since it was still beta and apparently we were playing an outdated build. So again, I figured that they'll get it done before launch. Launch came and the game is just as lifeless as it was during early beta in the summer of 2010.
In retrospect, I really question the point of those beta tests since it seems that a lot of the feedback was completely ignored. And I'm not just talking about the issue I wrote about in this post. There was a lot of great and detailed feedback by other testers on the beta forums. Stuff that could've really made this game shine and it was ignored as well.
I was in the tython group from nov to dec then tested from march till a month before launch. I would say for me it was when i saw how much constuctive feedback was being blantly ignored and how it was taking 50 page plus threads just to get standard mmo features (like equipment preview) moved from a post launch feature to pre-launch one.
To me, what rang bells that there is something wrong with this game was, when I noticed after many cut scenes during quests, that when I was either giving an item, or taking an item from an NPC as part of the cutscene, you wouldn't see the item ever being transferred hands. You would see it either on my character, or on the NPC, but when they would raise their arms to give the item, you would almost always get a neck and above shot video.
It was mostly odd at first, till it caught my attention and then realized there was something weird with this. I mean, how much more expensive would it be to show the item switching hands..... I seriously wonder.
As well as no swimming, really?? No swimming!? A 2011-2012 MMO and.... no swimming???
But the no sitting on chairs, I had no idea about that, I guess Ill add that on my list of odd things with this game.
I just dont get it, how do you blow 300 mil on a game and not have the basic things mentioned above.... how????
Still the best MMO launching since World of Warcraft? Probably.
just to clarify: best launch since WoW, or best game that has launched since WoW?
I meant best launch, which can't really be debunked, it's pretty clear how well they launched when others failed misserably (WAR, Vanguard, Aion, Lotro etc.)
But in my opinion it is also the best MMO released since WoW. (Here's hoping Secret World, GW2 or Arche Age can change this, because ToR being the best MMO since WoW isn't a particually good thing.)
Comments
To answer the OP: The Cinematic Animations. Everytime I viewed one I cringed alittle because how awful some of them looked. Especially when they try to have facial expressions. One of the most touted feature of the game and it looked bad to me. It is the main reason I'm not playing the game.
BOOYAKA!
Absolutely.
Amusing indeed. Half the fun of these forums is observing overly hyped individuals deflate right in front of your eyes. One of the reasons I tend to avoid defending unreleased games that I have never played
"Mr. Rothstein, your people never will understand... the way it works out here. You're all just our guests. But you act like you're at home. Let me tell you something, partner. You ain't home. But that's where we're gonna send you if it harelips the governor." - Pat Webb
First sign:
Right after I got my first story quest (i.e. first quest ever) as a Jedi Knight and saw "0/10 Flesh Raiders killed" appear on my screen.
I died a little inside.
Are you team Azeroth, team Tyria, or team Jacob?
Eh...I'm not going to take them to task. Knew it would happen with many of them anyways. Besides, without pointing to anyone specifically there are more than a few around here that have done a 180 on this game.
It is amusing to see but not gonna rub it in.
Hell, there are even some others in this thread.
1. For god's sake mmo gamers, enough with the analogies. They're unnecessary and your comparisons are terrible, dissimilar, and illogical.
2. To posters feeling the need to state how f2p really isn't f2p: Players understand the concept. You aren't privy to some secret the rest are missing. You're embarrassing yourself.
3. Yes, Cpt. Obvious, we're not industry experts. Now run along and let the big people use the forums for their purpose.
I personally think some should be taken to task especially some more than others. Some of these were the worst who couldn't even handle constructive critics of the game and imo were rude.Here they are moaning about the same things they was defending about the game,it's actually pathetic.
Many have done the same thing but have slunked of with their tails between their legs,you can't ever take these people seriously again.
They can't even use the "they nerf my toon" excuse lol.
When I was in the open beta with two other friends and we found that the game was not only more natually played ungrouped, many mmos start that way, but we also found that we didn't want to be in ventrillo together while we played because people would talk as you were in a cutscene and it would be distracting. It was at that point that I realized that the game was actually encouraging us to be less social and involved with each other.
Some games don't do a good job pulling people together but I had never seen one actually encourage people in a guild, who already like each other and like to play with each other to actually do less of that.
TOR is a great game. I just don't think it is a great MMO.
All die, so die well.
Back in 2004 this was acceptable.
It's 2012, btw.
He who keeps his cool best wins.
I also immediately grade an MMO by such things. If you can't sit in a chair then there hasn't been much detail given to being able to "live" in a game. Course I'm old school sandbox oriented and believe a game only has lasting power if you can "build" something within it ( beyond a guild ).
There isn't perfection in a mmorpg. Therefore they will always be flawed.
Epic Music: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vAigCvelkhQ&list=PLo9FRw1AkDuQLEz7Gvvaz3ideB2NpFtT1
https://archive.org/details/softwarelibrary_msdos?&sort=-downloads&page=1
Kyleran: "Now there's the real trick, learning to accept and enjoy a game for what it offers rather than pass on what might be a great playing experience because it lacks a few features you prefer."
John Henry Newman: "A man would do nothing if he waited until he could do it so well that no one could find fault."
FreddyNoNose: "A good game needs no defense; a bad game has no defense." "Easily digested content is just as easily forgotten."
LacedOpium: "So the question that begs to be asked is, if you are not interested in the game mechanics that define the MMORPG genre, then why are you playing an MMORPG?"
Haven't left yet but....
When you travel to the super secret Revanite compound. So super secret, the thing has a public transportation hub!
The quest turn in for a SI where one of the rewards is a double bladed lightsaber. Only problem is that you can't use such a thing as a sorc. now I was smart and didn't click it. But why even offer it?
A quest where telling the truth granted a bit of dark side points, but lying resulted in a substantial amount of light side points. lolwut?
The story quest on NS as a SI. Yes, you are to fight a battle with your force effected, where it is supposed to be only lightsabers. And fighting with just a light saber as a Sith Sorc is going to be a bit of a challenge. I almost do it, but die. So I simply self-revive in the same zone, seethe a bit, and I have full force and full force regen. Even though the boss is back at full health, I now drop him in about 20 seconds. Only quest I've done so far where it actually pays to die.
These sort of things tell me that they didn't put a lot of thought into how their game is designed. That is just the first 30 levels. I'm not taking beef with flawed mechanics, what they did or didn't include.
I'm going off of what is supposed to be the selling point of the game: The story. And before i've even hit level 30, I've found 4 instances that completely break continuity of the story.
lmao, for real.
mine was playing GW2 at PAX East, the day after playing SWTOR. literally felt like i went to bed in 2004 and woke up in 2011.
I knew within 30 min of playing beta, and after 1 hour of playing, I couldnt even force myself to play it anymore because everything was so linear just like the everything else released.
Any/Every game that follows this same formula will suffer the same fate. It doesnt matter what title is slapped on it. Majority of gammers only can stomach this type of game for roughly 90 days. These overly simplified easy mode game on rails just dont last. but then again i highly doubt that bioware spent multi-multi-million dollars on this game. Its just too cheeply made, to shallow, and not a lot of creativity. I am sure from a business it has already made a profit from all the sheepies who bought this game.
Waiting for:EQ-Next, ArcheAge (not so much anymore)
Now Playing: N/A
Worst MMO: FFXIV
Favorite MMO: FFXI
war was a better game imo (until bioware changed the rvr rules and loot to make it more wow like)
While the sum of the game didn't work they had some individual good ideas / improvements. like PQs (but overdone), good LFG interface, best acheivement interface yet, tank pvp mechanics (which SWTOR didnt do as well due to differences in how shields / block work) etc..
Oh and it could handle a hundred or so people on screen rather than like 10.
Voice actors - of the sort bioware use, cost more than programmers.
Basically this.
When the game was in pre-production, I saw a VAST number of red flags, pointed them out for which I was banned multiple times, labelled a "hater", a "troll", yelled abuses at, etc. all on this very site.
I knew of BioWare's technical inexpertise from their SRPGs. This was point one. As events have played out, SWTOR is filled with bugs, broken combat, etc.
Secondly, I was familiar with how good BioWare/EA are hyping their playerbase. I saw this play out again with SWTOR - BiowarEA whipped the MMO playerbase into a bunch of drooling fanboys based on cinematics that featured no gameplay whatsoever.
Thirdly, the release date. The game had been cooking in the oven since 2006. The industry was buzzing with the release date being spring 2010 (this was info from EA HQ really because they did not contradict it whatsoever). Spring 2010 came and went and we did not even see a beta. People were then predicting that it would be out by Summer 2011. Still, not a word from BW/EA. So this was the third huge red flag. When the game is as in limbo as SWTOR was, you just know it is off the rails.
Fourthly, the NDA. Here's a comparison: WoW - Cataclysm went into Friends and Family alpha in early 2010. It went into closed beta in early summer 2010. The NDA lifted mid summer of the same year. SWTOR? NDA did not lift till like 3 weeks before release. SHADY! or what?
Honestly, I could go on... I could bring up EA Louse's points, or how EA cannibalized Mythic to form BioWare Mythic to speed up the development of the hot mess that is SWTOR. But yes, the aforementioned points were huge indicators that SWTOR was going to be a HOT MESS.
"Never argue with a fool; onlookers may not be able to tell the difference."
I need to take this advice more.
At first I didn't really like the game but after picking my advanced class I am having a lot of fun. I'm on my second lvl 25 character now but it really seems like a solid mmo so far. I will admit I did not enjoy lvls 1-9 and 10-12 (13 I got a run speed buff) were kind of slow going. The space missions are fun but can become repetitive but then again what about an mmo pve isnt? This just gives you another way to level up.
"I'm sorry but your mmo has been diagnosed with EA and only has X number of days to live."
Here is my laundry list:
1. E.A.
2. Hero Engine.
3. Static world.
4. Extremely limited character creation.
5. Level 1-49 feels like a single player game.
6. No challenge at all from level 1-49.
7. Animation.
8. Besides the voiceovers and cut scenes, everything else has a "been there done that" feeling except with a twist that here you can use a light saber (with sounds).
9. The fact that they never made this movie:
http://imgur.com/a/mgIyx
I seriously want to know what happens to /v/.
I was in the tython group from nov to dec then tested from march till a month before launch. I would say for me it was when i saw how much constuctive feedback was being blantly ignored and how it was taking 50 page plus threads just to get standard mmo features (like equipment preview) moved from a post launch feature to pre-launch one.
To me, what rang bells that there is something wrong with this game was, when I noticed after many cut scenes during quests, that when I was either giving an item, or taking an item from an NPC as part of the cutscene, you wouldn't see the item ever being transferred hands. You would see it either on my character, or on the NPC, but when they would raise their arms to give the item, you would almost always get a neck and above shot video.
It was mostly odd at first, till it caught my attention and then realized there was something weird with this. I mean, how much more expensive would it be to show the item switching hands..... I seriously wonder.
As well as no swimming, really?? No swimming!? A 2011-2012 MMO and.... no swimming???
But the no sitting on chairs, I had no idea about that, I guess Ill add that on my list of odd things with this game.
I just dont get it, how do you blow 300 mil on a game and not have the basic things mentioned above.... how????
Something is not right.
When they announced it was an MMO.
All MMO's are flawed, every single one of them.
No exception with The Old Republic.
Still the best MMO launch since World of Warcraft? Probably.
just to clarify: best launch since WoW, or best game that has launched since WoW?
I meant best launch, which can't really be debunked, it's pretty clear how well they launched when others failed misserably (WAR, Vanguard, Aion, Lotro etc.)
But in my opinion it is also the best MMO released since WoW. (Here's hoping Secret World, GW2 or Arche Age can change this, because ToR being the best MMO since WoW isn't a particually good thing.)