Dying for a PLAYER SKILL based PvP MMORPG...

Southpaw.Gamer

It's 1AM... I'm not quite tired but getting there, it's my personal "Magical" writing timeframe and I feel like getting some thoughts onto this here virtual paper where none of you will really care what I have to say anyways.

Long story short... I want an MMORPG created with COMPETITVE PLAYER SKILL based PvP... preferably with "Action Combat" where players need to AIM.  Fuck TAB TARGET COMBAT I am sick of no skill press 1 - 0 MMO's.

 

Long Story longer...

 

So recently I had a RL buddy want me to join him in WoW... so I tried the game... again... and got to level 63 (My highest character yet) before getting bored out of my fucking mind.  He sits here raiding and so forth and all I see are flashy big numbers pop up and him practically getting off to the gameplay involved which you know is fine, whatever floats peoples boats you know... but damn I see him doing that and in my mind I'm just asking why any sane human being could do that and have fun.  No offense intended I know WoW is an amazing game for what it is... just what it is doesn't cut it for me.  My thought in playing WoW was to try the Arena system... but as time went on I was only reminded how much I loathe tab target combat.  I simply cannot go back to tab target combat in MMO's after having been a huge fan of Darkfall Online for such a long time... If DF were a better game and the issues resolved I'd still be playing... but that is another story all together.

 

I am a competitive gamer.  I enjoy games such as BF3 and SC II because I know they are HUGE tournament games... so why can't an MMO have something similar?  If there was an MMO out right this second that has competitive PvP I'd be all over it... BUT it would need to have the following...

 

+ Population NOT in the can

+ FPS type combat preferably 

+ Guild VS Guild league / ladder system in W/E PvP the game offers

 

I'd add OW PvP but really that should be an obvious... besides I'm more into the Team VS Team style combat (Which I know WoW has but again the combat SUCKS... to ME not you if you like it)

 

So yeah the games I am looking at right now...

 

Terra - Bought - Will try it... can't say no to an AIM based combat system

 

GW2 - Promising competitive PvP - Not complete TAB TARGET

 

Planetside 2 - Will Buy - FPS game duh

 

This is where the ramble ends... no point in going further I think my request / point has been made.

 

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Before anyone suggests games here is a list of all the MMO's I have tried...

 

Darkfall

WoW

WAR

AoC

SWToR

UO (Free shards)

EQ I / II

 

well you get the picture... all of them.  At least the BIG titles.

VirgoThree

I don't think you want an MMO"RPG" persay considering the RPG part means there is going to be some form of stat progression and that already starts getting in the way of pure skill based PvP. I'd suggest just waiting it out for something like Planetside 2. If it's anything like the original it will be purely skill based for the most part.

dreamscaper

Originally posted by VirgoThree

I don't think you want an MMO"RPG" persay considering the RPG part means there is going to be some form of stat progression and that already starts getting in the way of pure skill based PvP. I'd suggest just waiting it out for something like Planetside 2. If it's anything like the original it will be purely skill based for the most part.

 

This is a good summary. Basically the core issue is that 'RPG' has become synonymous with time-based progression systems, which are antithetical to the player-based skill you're looking for.

Kuro1n

I would say wait for TERA, if you want to have some fast fun you could try out Tribes which is a really enjoyable game in 'CBT' currently.

Southpaw.Gamer

Originally posted by VirgoThree

I don't think you want an MMO"RPG" persay considering the RPG part means there is going to be some form of stat progression and that already starts getting in the way of pure skill based PvP. I'd suggest just waiting it out for something like Planetside 2. If it's anything like the original it will be purely skill based for the most part.

I personally don't see why the "RPG" part needs to be left out to create such a game that I would enjoy.  Darkfall is a great example just done poorly.  There should always be progression yes... and gear... however I believe in several idea...

 

#1.  Progression doesn't need to be measured in dollars... why not cents?  

 

The idea here is that while playing the game you do progress your character... HOWEVER combat skills do not give you 60X more damage from level 1 - W/E.  Instead you can TINY amounts maybe meaning at max level you do possibly 10 more damage TOTAL than a new guy.  

Why can't progression involve your reputation on the server as a player?  Progression in regards to how your guild is doing?  Why must progression always involve numbers?

 

#2.  Gear doesn't need to be "special"

 

Again looking at DF (Full Loot) gear is just gear.  Yes there is "Better" gear and all but in the end you will always lose it to either death or it will break over use.  Gear is replaceable.

 

What about a quest system in such a game where you advance within your faction?

 

There are so many options... 

 

 

Southpaw.Gamer

Originally posted by Kuro1n

I would say wait for TERA, if you want to have some fast fun you could try out Tribes which is a really enjoyable game in 'CBT' currently.

Yeah I'll be in the CB for Tera this weekend after work.  I'm in the Tribes CB and it is fun... just not an MMO

Arawnite

While I can't suggest an MMORPG that has those qualities, I can suggest a multiplayer RPG that has aiming combat and is very much player skill oriented. Mount and Blade Warband is intense FPS style medieval combat, is alot of fun until a decent MMO comes around. Get it cheap on steam and join in, just be ready to get rocked for awhile until you get the hang of it.

Southpaw.Gamer

Originally posted by Arawnite

While I can't suggest an MMORPG that has those qualities, I can suggest a multiplayer RPG that has aiming combat and is very much player skill oriented. Mount and Blade Warband is intense FPS style medieval combat, is alot of fun until a decent MMO comes around. Get it cheap on steam and join in, just be ready to get rocked for awhile until you get the hang of it.

Yeah I love the M&B series of games.  Would love a combat system like that in an MMO.  I prob will but it next time Steam has a sale. (I've played before)

Banaghran

In b4 "FPS is not skill"

Anyways, if you like sc2 tournaments and ladders, you should really give arena a second shot, the gameplay in arena is quite different from tab-targeting, you just have to get to maxlevel somehow, and that whole world of ultimate awareness and moves and counter moves opens, which brings its own problems, but still is skill based gameplay for the most part.

But ofcourse if you dont like that you have to adapt your approch based on what the other guy does, and just want to shoot spells or rockets up his err... back, then you might consider changing the title to "Dying for a PLAYER SKILL (but not too much) based PvP..." (and yes, im just being mean)

Flame on!

laokoko

I don't support FPS.  Tell me a MMORPG without auto target that dont' have aim bot.  I rest my case. 

It's not as bad in games like BF3, because pvp is the whole game, and the company at least try to stop hacks.  In those FPS MMORPG, the amount of aimbot are much more because dev don't try as hard to get rid of it, since PvP is only a part of the game.

Nitth

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Originally posted by Bainwalker

Originally posted by VirgoThree
I don't think you want an MMO"RPG" persay considering the RPG part means there is going to be some form of stat progression and that already starts getting in the way of pure skill based PvP. I'd suggest just waiting it out for something like Planetside 2. If it's anything like the original it will be purely skill based for the most part.

I personally don't see why the "RPG" part needs to be left out to create such a game that I would enjoy.  Darkfall is a great example just done poorly.  There should always be progression yes... and gear... however I believe in several idea...
 
#1.  Progression doesn't need to be measured in dollars... why not cents?  
 
The idea here is that while playing the game you do progress your character... HOWEVER combat skills do not give you 60X more damage from level 1 - W/E.  Instead you can TINY amounts maybe meaning at max level you do possibly 10 more damage TOTAL than a new guy.  
Why can't progression involve your reputation on the server as a player?  Progression in regards to how your guild is doing?  Why must progression always involve numbers?
 
#2.  Gear doesn't need to be "special"
 
Again looking at DF (Full Loot) gear is just gear.  Yes there is "Better" gear and all but in the end you will always lose it to either death or it will break over use.  Gear is replaceable.
 
What about a quest system in such a game where you advance within your faction?
 
There are so many options... 
 
 

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MMOFPS is what you want.

Different Guns have different values for damages right? There's the progression you suggested right there.

laokoko

I never play it.  But have you tried team fortress?

Pilnkplonk

Check out Firefall as well. If they manage to implement open world PvP they'll give PS3 a run for its money.

/Edit and yeah GW2 also seems to be close to what you're looking for. In the meanwhile I suggest playing TF2 - it really is brilliant, and free!

Quirhid

TL;DR: You want more e-sport? You and me both.

Arenanet gets it. You should try GW1 if you haven't already. It takes the most out of the traditional MMO combat imo.

Volkon

Quick note about GW2's Tab targetting... it's optional. Your attacks will still fire without a target selected... but then again, not sure how that works with Mesmer phantasms or clones...

 

Take a good look at their world vs world PvP before writing it off. It's amazing.

SEANMCAD

'SKILL' is really a subjective word in this area.

 

does it take skill to be an expert at Donkey Kong? totally

is that what the OP is refering to? likely not. Clarification needed.

Edeus

I don't know about mmo... but I know some RTS that require skill.

 

Go play Starcraft, it's b2p

SEANMCAD

Originally posted by Edeus

I don't know about mmo... but I know some RTS that require skill.

 

Go play Starcraft, it's b2p

Donky Kong also takes skill.

So does Slient Storm.

However, both RADICALLY different skill sets. So for gaming the term 'skill' is too abstract

Axehilt

What others have implied is true.  The more RPG something is, the more diluted it is by non-skill factors (which ruin PVP quality.)  So your choices are pretty narrow, between Planetside (MMOFPS), waiting for Planetside 2 (MMOFPS), or Guild Wars 1 (MMORPG style combat but with no non-skill factors diluting PVP quality.) 

There are probably a handlful of other games which fit the request too, but there are literally thousands of non-MMORPG style games which have great skill-centric PVP.  That's definitely the direction I've gone (forsaking all MMORPG PVP in favor of pure PVP games like Tribes Ascend, LoL, BF3, and TF2, where only skill and teamwork matters.)

Karahandras

Does fallen earth not fit the bill?

Axehilt

Originally posted by SEANMCAD

Originally posted by Edeus

I don't know about mmo... but I know some RTS that require skill.

 

Go play Starcraft, it's b2p

Donky Kong also takes skill.

So does Slient Storm.

However, both RADICALLY different skill sets. So for gaming the term 'skill' is too abstract

All skill is skill, why would you think the term needs to be less abstract?

Skill is decisionmaking and execution.  (Decisionmaking often being referred to as "strategy" or "tactics" and execution sometimes taking the form of "twitch")

Pivotelite

Originally posted by Bainwalker

It's 1AM... I'm not quite tired but getting there, it's my personal "Magical" writing timeframe and I feel like getting some thoughts onto this here virtual paper where none of you will really care what I have to say anyways.

Long story short... I want an MMORPG created with COMPETITVE PLAYER SKILL based PvP... preferably with "Action Combat" where players need to AIM.  Fuck TAB TARGET COMBAT I am sick of no skill press 1 - 0 MMO's.

 Well TERA has action based combat, Open world PvP and Guild vs Guild battles which are three things you wanted at least.

 

Not to mention being skilled in battlegrounds with your guild is a way to obtain control of certain provinces in the game, not sure if there is a ladder system type of ranking in place anywhere.

 

However obviously gear will be a factor, like it is in almost any MMORPG, but TERA gives you more of a chance at least.

 

GW2 apparently has no gear issues, so thats a plus and the combat is semi-action based, not nearly like TERA but not like WoW either.

username509

Either Mortal Online, or Darkfall, you have no other options unless you want to be a spaceship.  (no not Eve)

Rusque

Originally posted by Axehilt

Originally posted by SEANMCAD

Originally posted by Edeus

I don't know about mmo... but I know some RTS that require skill.

 

Go play Starcraft, it's b2p

Donky Kong also takes skill.

So does Slient Storm.

However, both RADICALLY different skill sets. So for gaming the term 'skill' is too abstract

All skill is skill, why would you think the term needs to be less abstract?

Skill is decisionmaking and execution.  (Decisionmaking often being referred to as "strategy" or "tactics" and execution sometimes taking the form of "twitch")

Too often you hear gamers equate skill with twitch reflexes.  While they are certainely a type of skillset, they are not the singular identifier of skill.

Chess is not a twtich based game, yet it requires a large amount of skill.  In the military, what requires more skill - being an infantry man or being a general?  The answer is neither, both require skill, but from different families of skill.  Strategy and tactics vs reaction and physicality.

 

 

mbergstrom

Originally posted by Karahandras

Does fallen earth not fit the bill?

^This was my first thought after reading OP.

 

To continue on the RPG arguement, isn't a RPG a Role Playing Game? Meaning, "I'm an epic sniper, I'll head shot yo ass from afar biatch!" So in a sense, an MMOFPS can be a RPG. Because you are playing a ROLE. Whether or not you change your role in the game doesnt make much of a difference because with what the OP is looking for every person in team based PvP players a specific role. From Complete Damage, to support, to the guy that's got everyones back. It's still a role, now not everyone plays in this sense but from my experience with MMOFPS's (MAG as an example) everyone plays their chosen roles very well. I'm always behind the grunt fight looking for the other sneaky guys trying to get us from behind.

Siveria

Sadly the only game that exists like this is dark age of camelot, all the others are 100% gear based, with little to do with skill of the player at all.