Point being, Pilnk, people are rationalizing the loading screens. (I personally have no problem with loading screens). When talk centers around SWTOR loading screens, however, it's the devil's work. If SWTOR has loading screens, it's a failure; but if GW2 has loading screens, it's seen as a way to load content....
See the problem there? See the hypocrisy?
I at least have respect for those people who hate loading screens across the board.
All I see is a groundless claims that these 'people' even exist... the ones that hate SWTOR for loading screens and love GW2 for the same.
What you claim as 'hypocrisy' needs to be proved... state their names, link the threads, otherwise it's you creating a false situation in order to score some kind of fake 'victory'.
I criticised SWTOR pre launch pretty heavily, having played it for a month in beta, and was on that firum quite a lot but I haven't seen the double standards you describe here from specific posters. I certainly made no comments on SWTOR's load screens.
I don 't mind load screens personally and don't understand the wailing an gnashing of teeth... each game should use whatever model works best for what they need IMO.
Point being, Pilnk, people are rationalizing the loading screens. (I personally have no problem with loading screens). When talk centers around SWTOR loading screens, however, it's the devil's work. If SWTOR has loading screens, it's a failure; but if GW2 has loading screens, it's seen as a way to load content....
See the problem there? See the hypocrisy?
I at least have respect for those people who hate loading screens across the board.
All I see is a groundless claims that these 'people' even exist... the ones that hate SWTOR for loading screens and love GW2 for the same.
What you claim as 'hypocrisy' needs to be proved... state their names, link the threads, otherwise it's you creating a false situation in order to score some kind of fake 'victory'.
I criticised SWTOR pre launch pretty heavily, having played it for a month in beta, and was on that firum quite a lot but I haven't seen the double standards you describe here from specific posters. I certainly made no comments on SWTOR's load screens.
I don 't mind load screens personally and don't understand the wailing an gnashing of teeth... each game should use whatever model works best for what they need IMO.
Maybe people are not lookign for victories on internet but just discussing general trend in double standards used on these forums? people like you are what is wrong with forums these days. looking for virtual victories..are you for real bro?
ANet are without a doubt skilled coders & designers, so it puzzle me that they kinda choose to have loading screen between zones: why not a seamless world like WoW, Terra etc. ?
Is it because of some kind of limitations with the dynamic events or something ?
This is misconception
Neither WOW (or TERA) has seamles world.
For example when you going from zone to zone - lets take quite obvious Dun Morogh to Loch Modan
You are passing trough a lenghty tunnel.
Now what happens while you pass trough it, is that the game actually loads next zone.
It cleverly hides the loading screen, by putting you in not-interactive area ( tunnel in this case).
Don't think that theory is valid seeing as you can fly from one end of a continent to the other without any visual distortions..
Speculation; as the user comes closer to the end of a zone, they use dynamic streaming to impliment the next zone behind the far cliping plane.
They preload and buffer nearby areas to the player, that aren't already in memory, so that no loading screens are required. Tunnels have nothing to do with it.
ANet are without a doubt skilled coders & designers, so it puzzle me that they kinda choose to have loading screen between zones: why not a seamless world like WoW, Terra etc. ?
Is it because of some kind of limitations with the dynamic events or something ?
This is misconception
Neither WOW (or TERA) has seamles world.
For example when you going from zone to zone - lets take quite obvious Dun Morogh to Loch Modan
You are passing trough a lenghty tunnel.
Now what happens while you pass trough it, is that the game actually loads next zone.
It cleverly hides the loading screen, by putting you in not-interactive area ( tunnel in this case).
Don't think that theory is valid seeing as you can fly from one end of a continent to the other without any visual distortions..
Speculation; as the user comes closer to the end of a zone, they use dynamic streaming to impliment the next zone behind the far cliping plane.
They preload and buffer nearby areas to the player, that aren't already in memory, so that no loading screens are required. Tunnels have nothing to do with it.
I think this is true for WoW. But why can't ANet do it with GW2?
Only ANet can tell you why, but my best guess is due to optimization issues.
If a game as graphically impressive as TERA can make a completely seamless world besides teleporting or instances, and maintain an impressive framerate, much better than rift, I don't see why GW2 can't.
ANet are without a doubt skilled coders & designers, so it puzzle me that they kinda choose to have loading screen between zones: why not a seamless world like WoW, Terra etc. ?
Is it because of some kind of limitations with the dynamic events or something ?
FFXIV tried to have seemless world with no zones AND very impressive high end graphics -
Have you seen their world?
Exact same trees, foliage, grass, rocks over and over and over and over and over to save processing resources.
I'm more following tsw than gw2, but I seriously doubt that gw2 Is as instanced to hell and "corridory" as swtor, it would take some doing to out corridor swtor.
I'm more following tsw than gw2, but I seriously doubt that gw2 Is as instanced to hell and "corridory" as swtor, it would take some doing to out corridor swtor.
Instance and zone is different I think. Actually yes, in FFXIV, during your main story you would be instanced but you don't see a loading screen.
Originally posted by BadSpock Originally posted by aSynchro ANet are without a doubt skilled coders & designers, so it puzzle me that they kinda choose to have loading screen between zones: why not a seamless world like WoW, Terra etc. ? Is it because of some kind of limitations with the dynamic events or something ?
FFXIV tried to have seemless world with no zones AND very impressive high end graphics - Have you seen their world? Exact same trees, foliage, grass, rocks over and over and over and over and over to save processing resources. Technical limitations.
This kinda puzzles me...this is client side processing, Just give the user a detail slider or heaven forbid increase sys-reqirements marginally?
Originally posted by Vesavius Seamless or not seamless... who cares.
Mmmorpgs are supposed to be virtual worlds right? If you settle for less it gives the devs the green light abandon the idea. Because if your buying their shit, they don't care.
Originally posted by DOGMA1138 Holy moses so much nonsense in a single post...
Cool, an intelligent post.
TSW - AoC - Aion - WOW - EVE - Fallen Earth - Co - Rift - || XNA C# Java Development
ANet are without a doubt skilled coders & designers, so it puzzle me that they kinda choose to have loading screen between zones: why not a seamless world like WoW, Terra etc. ?
Is it because of some kind of limitations with the dynamic events or something ?
WoW isn't actually seamless. It just loads zones in the background.
I'm guessing it's because GW2 is so big and complex and they want a lot of players playing together (with different internet connections) so... yea... technical limitations and all that.
Besides, the GW2 zones are pretty huge.
Which is the very definition of seamless. It loads zones in the background.
ANet are without a doubt skilled coders & designers, so it puzzle me that they kinda choose to have loading screen between zones: why not a seamless world like WoW, Terra etc. ?
Is it because of some kind of limitations with the dynamic events or something ?
I'm sorry wha?
uhm yeah if you've ever played WoW AND watched ANY of the longer videos about GW2 gameplay you will see it's definitely as seemless as WoW.
The travel is exactly the same without mounts accept there is more teleport locations instead of just four zepplin points in WoW there are teleport locations requiring loading screens all over the place in this game. It's not instanced and it's definitely not any less seamless then WoW is right now especially with portals. You don't instantly pop up in kalimdor or appear in twighlight highlands in WoW so i don't get what you are trying to say...
ANet are without a doubt skilled coders & designers, so it puzzle me that they kinda choose to have loading screen between zones: why not a seamless world like WoW, Terra etc. ?
Is it because of some kind of limitations with the dynamic events or something ?
The thing with loading screens for me is not an issue so much as to whether they exist or not but on how they are used if they are used at all.
I look at games like WOW and yes they are a cut above most devs in this regard but a game like TOR which has many more loading screens than WOW doesn't bother me at all because most times I can complete an entire session without encountering a single loading screen. But then I look at a game like STO which totally killed any sense of immersion for me because you were constantly faced with loading screens in that game in a play session I could easily have to load into an area ten or more times before I got sick of the constant loading and logged out.
Why not seemless, the answer to that is quite simple....
The engine they used does not support it...
The only engine that supports it natively so far is Blizzards WoW engine... tough even they tricked the engine intoo feeling seemless...do you remember Vanguard that tried to rebuilt their engine to allow for a seemless world...
Best MMO experiences : EQ(PvE), DAoC(PvP), WoW(total package) LOTRO (worldfeel) GW2 (Artstyle and animations and worlddesign) SWTOR (Story immersion) TSW (story) ESO (character advancement)
We should all just go back to WoW, right? I mean, its seamless, well, in the background.
If that is a game breaker for anyone, then I imagine there will be a ton of flaws that still await you apon game release. Heck, by then you will probably be pulling your hair out, wish I could see that...lol
Honestly though, cut scenes bother me a whole lot more than a loading screen, especially if they are all the same time frame, then I know exactly how much time I have to grab a drink or hit the throne room.
Imo main reason why there is no seamless world in gw2 is that you can instatravel to any waypoint you already discovered, and with the size of the world its not realisticly done without loading screens.
Correct me if i'm wrong (I havent played WoW for years now), but dont you get loading screen after using heartstone ? Its same as in gw2, you cant keep whole world in RAM. In WoW it has sense to create illusion of seamless world becouse your instant traveling is actualy very lmited and there is enough time to preload new zone, but in the game where instant traveling to discovered locations is basic functionality it has a lot less sense to spend effort to do this.
Imo you will mostly just jump to location where you want to got and you will not run between zones that often.
It's all about balancing server and client resources and leveraging the game engine to it's best ability.
There is nothing magical about seemless worlds. I think any MMO wants to minimize hard zone breaks and loading scren times as much as possible, but it's all weighed against what they gain or lose as far as performance, detail and other capabilities as a result.
Many people think of WoW as being seemless, but it obviously is not now and wasn't even completely seemless back in the days of Vanilla Wow. There are a number of regions that are only connected via load screens. Even the brief flight or ship voyage between Kalimdor and Teldrassil isn't seemless, even though the distance itself doesn't require it, they just don't exist in the same seemless world space.
In GW2, the game is split up into a number of regions, each region having multiple zones. There is no portal or loading screen between zones in the same region, but there is when journeying from region to region. The world is carved into more such regions than Vanilla WoW had, but it's a difference of degree, rather than seemless vs. non-seemless.
With the easy use of waypoint travel, which has it's own brief loading screens, most players aren't going to really care or take note of the occasions when they need to hop a portal to get to a new area of the world. Heck, the game even uses portals to ease travel with in the cities, even though the cities are themselves seemless, so it really isn't a big deal or immersion breaking.
But please, cool down people: i'm waiting to play GW2 on launch day too and this was a genius question about what is imho one of the few downside of the game.
About the size of GW2 zones by the way: do we know in how many zones Tyra will be divided ? If i run from west to east, avoiding cities, how many loading screens will i see : 3, 10, 20 ?
Also can you see the next zone when you're in the previous one (like in WoW when you're in Elwyn and can see other players fighting mobs in Duskwood) ? Is there some separation like a wall/mountain and you pass through a door/tunnel/bridge... when you're traveling or is it more like an open field that lead to an open forest, with just a loading screen in between ?
Originally posted by fiontar
There are a number of regions that are only connected via load screens. Even the brief flight or ship voyage between Kalimdor and Teldrassil isn't seemless, even though the distance itself doesn't require it, they just don't exist in the same seemless world space.
Since Cataclysm, you can fly without loading screen from Kalimdor to Teldreassil (you don't even need to take the portal, you can fly up the tree).
Originally posted by fiontar
In GW2, the game is split up into a number of regions, each region having multiple zones. There is no portal or loading screen between zones in the same region, but there is when journeying from region to region. The world is carved into more such regions than Vanilla WoW had, but it's a difference of degree, rather than seemless vs. non-seemless.
So the regions of GW2 are like the WoW continents ? No loading screen between zones, just between regions, when you travel by foot ?
Seamless worlds are awesome. I think if ANet could have done a seamless world with all of GW2's bells and whistles they would have.
If I had to guess, the none seamless is probably due to more of a technical constraint than just a design decision. I don't see why anyone would choose to do a non-seamless world "by design."
Why not seemless, the answer to that is quite simple....
The engine they used does not support it...
The only engine that supports it natively so far is Blizzards WoW engine... tough even they tricked the engine intoo feeling seemless...do you remember Vanguard that tried to rebuilt their engine to allow for a seemless world...
Lineage2 had a seamless world. I think they used the Unreal engine too.
Everything creates huge amounts of negativity on the internet, that's what the internet is for: Negativity, porn and lolcats.
Honestly, I can live without seamless if the maps are gigantic and I'm not loading every 15 seconds a la SWTOR ship hangars.
There are no ships or hangers or any transportation ofany kind in GW2 so ofcourse that won't be a problem.
Yea, clearly those teleportation ruins are in our minds. Or is it that teleportation anywhere on the map doesn't count as transportation?
Seriously...
Why is this conversation still on going? WoW has load screens hidden deceptively. They're there. Most games have them. As long as they don't reach ToR proportions does it matter?
Those who've had hands on, just how instanced is it? I can handle something like warhammer or aion level of instancing but if its like swtor I'd rather boil my head
Comments
All I see is a groundless claims that these 'people' even exist... the ones that hate SWTOR for loading screens and love GW2 for the same.
What you claim as 'hypocrisy' needs to be proved... state their names, link the threads, otherwise it's you creating a false situation in order to score some kind of fake 'victory'.
I criticised SWTOR pre launch pretty heavily, having played it for a month in beta, and was on that firum quite a lot but I haven't seen the double standards you describe here from specific posters. I certainly made no comments on SWTOR's load screens.
I don 't mind load screens personally and don't understand the wailing an gnashing of teeth... each game should use whatever model works best for what they need IMO.
Maybe people are not lookign for victories on internet but just discussing general trend in double standards used on these forums? people like you are what is wrong with forums these days. looking for virtual victories..are you for real bro?
They preload and buffer nearby areas to the player, that aren't already in memory, so that no loading screens are required. Tunnels have nothing to do with it.
I think this is true for WoW. But why can't ANet do it with GW2?
Guild Wars 2's 50 minutes game play video:
http://n4g.com/news/592585/guild-wars-2-50-minutes-of-pure-gameplay
Everything We Know about GW2:
http://www.mmorpg.com/discussion2.cfm/thread/287180/page/1
If a game as graphically impressive as TERA can make a completely seamless world besides teleporting or instances, and maintain an impressive framerate, much better than rift, I don't see why GW2 can't.
FFXIV tried to have seemless world with no zones AND very impressive high end graphics -
Have you seen their world?
Exact same trees, foliage, grass, rocks over and over and over and over and over to save processing resources.
Technical limitations.
Instance and zone is different I think. Actually yes, in FFXIV, during your main story you would be instanced but you don't see a loading screen.
Guild Wars 2's 50 minutes game play video:
http://n4g.com/news/592585/guild-wars-2-50-minutes-of-pure-gameplay
Everything We Know about GW2:
http://www.mmorpg.com/discussion2.cfm/thread/287180/page/1
Have you seen their world?
Exact same trees, foliage, grass, rocks over and over and over and over and over to save processing resources.
Technical limitations.
This kinda puzzles me...this is client side processing, Just give the user a detail slider or heaven forbid increase sys-reqirements marginally?
Mmmorpgs are supposed to be virtual worlds right? If you settle for less it gives the devs the green light abandon the idea. Because if your buying their shit, they don't care.
Cool, an intelligent post.TSW - AoC - Aion - WOW - EVE - Fallen Earth - Co - Rift - || XNA C# Java Development
Which is the very definition of seamless. It loads zones in the background.
I'm sorry wha?
uhm yeah if you've ever played WoW AND watched ANY of the longer videos about GW2 gameplay you will see it's definitely as seemless as WoW.
The travel is exactly the same without mounts accept there is more teleport locations instead of just four zepplin points in WoW there are teleport locations requiring loading screens all over the place in this game. It's not instanced and it's definitely not any less seamless then WoW is right now especially with portals. You don't instantly pop up in kalimdor or appear in twighlight highlands in WoW so i don't get what you are trying to say...
The thing with loading screens for me is not an issue so much as to whether they exist or not but on how they are used if they are used at all.
I look at games like WOW and yes they are a cut above most devs in this regard but a game like TOR which has many more loading screens than WOW doesn't bother me at all because most times I can complete an entire session without encountering a single loading screen. But then I look at a game like STO which totally killed any sense of immersion for me because you were constantly faced with loading screens in that game in a play session I could easily have to load into an area ten or more times before I got sick of the constant loading and logged out.
Why not seemless, the answer to that is quite simple....
The engine they used does not support it...
The only engine that supports it natively so far is Blizzards WoW engine... tough even they tricked the engine intoo feeling seemless...do you remember Vanguard that tried to rebuilt their engine to allow for a seemless world...
Best MMO experiences : EQ(PvE), DAoC(PvP), WoW(total package) LOTRO (worldfeel) GW2 (Artstyle and animations and worlddesign) SWTOR (Story immersion) TSW (story) ESO (character advancement)
We should all just go back to WoW, right? I mean, its seamless, well, in the background.
If that is a game breaker for anyone, then I imagine there will be a ton of flaws that still await you apon game release. Heck, by then you will probably be pulling your hair out, wish I could see that...lol
Honestly though, cut scenes bother me a whole lot more than a loading screen, especially if they are all the same time frame, then I know exactly how much time I have to grab a drink or hit the throne room.
Imo main reason why there is no seamless world in gw2 is that you can instatravel to any waypoint you already discovered, and with the size of the world its not realisticly done without loading screens.
Correct me if i'm wrong (I havent played WoW for years now), but dont you get loading screen after using heartstone ? Its same as in gw2, you cant keep whole world in RAM. In WoW it has sense to create illusion of seamless world becouse your instant traveling is actualy very lmited and there is enough time to preload new zone, but in the game where instant traveling to discovered locations is basic functionality it has a lot less sense to spend effort to do this.
Imo you will mostly just jump to location where you want to got and you will not run between zones that often.
It's all about balancing server and client resources and leveraging the game engine to it's best ability.
There is nothing magical about seemless worlds. I think any MMO wants to minimize hard zone breaks and loading scren times as much as possible, but it's all weighed against what they gain or lose as far as performance, detail and other capabilities as a result.
Many people think of WoW as being seemless, but it obviously is not now and wasn't even completely seemless back in the days of Vanilla Wow. There are a number of regions that are only connected via load screens. Even the brief flight or ship voyage between Kalimdor and Teldrassil isn't seemless, even though the distance itself doesn't require it, they just don't exist in the same seemless world space.
In GW2, the game is split up into a number of regions, each region having multiple zones. There is no portal or loading screen between zones in the same region, but there is when journeying from region to region. The world is carved into more such regions than Vanilla WoW had, but it's a difference of degree, rather than seemless vs. non-seemless.
With the easy use of waypoint travel, which has it's own brief loading screens, most players aren't going to really care or take note of the occasions when they need to hop a portal to get to a new area of the world. Heck, the game even uses portals to ease travel with in the cities, even though the cities are themselves seemless, so it really isn't a big deal or immersion breaking.
Want to know more about GW2 and why there is so much buzz? Start here: Guild Wars 2 Mass Info for the Uninitiated
I didn't expect so much reactions ^^
But please, cool down people: i'm waiting to play GW2 on launch day too and this was a genius question about what is imho one of the few downside of the game.
About the size of GW2 zones by the way: do we know in how many zones Tyra will be divided ? If i run from west to east, avoiding cities, how many loading screens will i see : 3, 10, 20 ?
Also can you see the next zone when you're in the previous one (like in WoW when you're in Elwyn and can see other players fighting mobs in Duskwood) ? Is there some separation like a wall/mountain and you pass through a door/tunnel/bridge... when you're traveling or is it more like an open field that lead to an open forest, with just a loading screen in between ?
Since Cataclysm, you can fly without loading screen from Kalimdor to Teldreassil (you don't even need to take the portal, you can fly up the tree).
So the regions of GW2 are like the WoW continents ? No loading screen between zones, just between regions, when you travel by foot ?
Honestly, I can live without seamless if the maps are gigantic and I'm not loading every 15 seconds a la SWTOR ship hangars.
Enter a whole new realm of challenge and adventure.
There are no ships or hangers or any transportation ofany kind in GW2 so ofcourse that won't be a problem.
Seamless worlds are awesome. I think if ANet could have done a seamless world with all of GW2's bells and whistles they would have.
If I had to guess, the none seamless is probably due to more of a technical constraint than just a design decision. I don't see why anyone would choose to do a non-seamless world "by design."
Are you team Azeroth, team Tyria, or team Jacob?
Lineage2 had a seamless world. I think they used the Unreal engine too.
Everything creates huge amounts of negativity on the internet, that's what the internet is for: Negativity, porn and lolcats.
Yea, clearly those teleportation ruins are in our minds. Or is it that teleportation anywhere on the map doesn't count as transportation?
Seriously...
Why is this conversation still on going? WoW has load screens hidden deceptively. They're there. Most games have them. As long as they don't reach ToR proportions does it matter?
Now we know the why: overflow servers. I am fine with that.