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Lucasarts called the shots with SWG and SOE cares about their fans

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  • IadienIadien Member UncommonPosts: 638

    I'm not sure why people are refuting this, this has been hinted at by Smed himself in various interviews and podcasts. Being the President of SoE means he has to take the blame, regardless of who is to blame. SoE did NOT want to do the NGE crap, but Lucas Arts wanted it, SoE did not want to shut the game down, but Lucas Arts is to blame for that as well.

  • superniceguysuperniceguy Member UncommonPosts: 2,278

    Originally posted by Burntvet

     

    P.S. Edit: and that is only about SWG. Smed and SOE have lied many, many times to customers about their other games, including EQ2 (especially in regards to putting in Station Cash, which Smed himself came out and promised would not happen, only to have it happen shortly later) and that had ABSOLUTELY NOTHING to do with LA. It was SOE lying to their customers, again.

     

     

     

    Anything to do with SWG, was down to LA.

    I do not know the full details of Station Cash, but it has not stopped me from enjoying their games, I forget it is there, so the fact they changed their minds on that is just ann optional extra, and looking for things to say bad things about them.

    The only people who say bad things about SOE never get to know them or cummincate with them rationally. I bet if you ended up speaking with Smedley, you would see that he cares about the players. I have yet to see someone actually speak to Smedley and then still come away hating him.

    Here is another example, in search about the station cash. He also said they would not go free to play, but now all their games are turning F2P, and future games will be F2P from the get go. They do not lie at the time, the change their minds with constant changing of the industry. You are just lookling for excuses to make them out to be the bad guys and it is just pathetic.

    Star Trek Online - Best Free MMORPG of 2012

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  • SuraknarSuraknar Member UncommonPosts: 852

    LA always called the shots, the NGE was a LA initiative, the "Iconic classes" it introduced were a LA concept. Sony just had to do it. I was on the SWG forum debating with everyone else when NGE hit and the VP guy from LA was there too explaining their rationale for it.

    Common guys that is not news. In my opinion SW:TOR is the game LA wanted to make with NGE, it blew up on their face and they made another.

    - Duke Suraknar -
    Order of the Silver Star, OSS

    ESKA, Playing MMORPG's since Ultima Online 1997 - Order of the Silver Serpent, Atlantic Shard
  • BurntvetBurntvet Member RarePosts: 3,465

    Originally posted by superniceguy

    Originally posted by Burntvet

     

    P.S. Edit: and that is only about SWG. Smed and SOE have lied many, many times to customers about their other games, including EQ2 (especially in regards to putting in Station Cash, which Smed himself came out and promised would not happen, only to have it happen shortly later) and that had ABSOLUTELY NOTHING to do with LA. It was SOE lying to their customers, again.

     

     

     

    Anything to do with SWG, was down to LA.

    I do not know the full details of Station Cash, but it has not stopped me from enjoying their games, I forget it is there, so the fact they changed their minds on that is just ann optional extra, and looking for things to say bad things about them.

    The only people who say bad things about SOE never get to know them or cummincate with them rationally. I bet if you ended up speaking with Smedley, you would see that he cares about the players. I have yet to see someone actually speak to Smedley and then still come away hating him.

    Here is another example, in search about the station cash. He also said they would not go free to play, but now all their games are turning F2P, and future games will be F2P from the get go. They do not lie at the time, the change their minds with constant changing of the industry. You are just lookling for excuses to make them out to be the bad guys and it is just pathetic.

     

    That's the best you've got? "Gee, if more people knew Smed, more people would like him?"

    Really?

    The dude has straight up lied so many times, that he has less than no credibility. As a CEO and as a man, all you have is your word. Once you break that, as publicly and repeatedly as Smed has, your reputation is nothing. Any other CEO making half the bad decisions he has and lying to customers as much as he has, would have been fired or resigned a long, long time ago.

    Heck, in the single instance of the ToOW expansion being sold just prior to the NGE and then made useless by the changes should have been enough to get the guy fired: that act alone violated/would have violated the consumer protection laws in many US States and SOE was forced to offer refunds on it or face legal sanction. That was all on Smed.

    I don't care if Smed is a great guy to have a beer with: he is a liar and a poor excuse for a CEO. And that is not really an opinion.

    SOE apologists want to blame LA for everything for the downfall of SWG and the facts just do not bear that out. All LA cared about was getting their check. SOE are the ones that came up with the ideas and poorly implemented them. That is the long and the short of it, and one need only read the Freeman and RUbenfeld blogs to see it.

    Only people who refuse to see the truth for what it is, and judge people by WHAT THEY SAID THEMSELVES, could possible continue to defend SOE for their atrocious conduct with SWG and their other games, in regards to treatment of their customers.

     

  • teakboisteakbois Member Posts: 2,154

    Originally posted by Burntvet

    Heck, in the single instance of the ToOW expansion being sold just prior to the NGE and then made useless by the changes should have been enough to get the guy fired: that act alone violated/would have violated the consumer protection laws in many US States and SOE was forced to offer refunds on it or face legal sanction. That was all on Smed.

     

     

    Where is the proof to back this up that it was all on smed?

    [mod edit]

  • BurntvetBurntvet Member RarePosts: 3,465

    Originally posted by teakbois

    Originally posted by Burntvet

    Heck, in the single instance of the ToOW expansion being sold just prior to the NGE and then made useless by the changes should have been enough to get the guy fired: that act alone violated/would have violated the consumer protection laws in many US States and SOE was forced to offer refunds on it or face legal sanction. That was all on Smed.

     

     

    Where is the proof to back this up that it was all on smed?

     

     

    As a CEO, in the US, Smed bears the ultimate civil responsibilty for actions which break the law. As CEO, he would have to have made the decision to go forward, and since that action violated parts of the consumer protection laws for various states, the responsibilty belongs to him, since he also had to authorize the NGE which made the expansion worthless.

    SOE's lawyers were smart enough to tell him this and make SOE offer the refund, otherwise they wouldn't have.

    That LA also would have agreed to such decsions is irrelavant.

    SOE in it's entire history has never refunded anything else, on a general basis, ever.

     

  • teakboisteakbois Member Posts: 2,154

    Originally posted by Burntvet

    Originally posted by teakbois

    Originally posted by Burntvet

    Heck, in the single instance of the ToOW expansion being sold just prior to the NGE and then made useless by the changes should have been enough to get the guy fired: that act alone violated/would have violated the consumer protection laws in many US States and SOE was forced to offer refunds on it or face legal sanction. That was all on Smed.

     

     

    Where is the proof to back this up that it was all on smed?

     

    [mod edit]

    As a CEO, in the US, Smed bears the ultimate civil responsibilty for actions which break the law. As CEO, he would have to have made the decision to go forward, and since that action violated parts of the consumer protection laws for various states, the responsibilty belongs to him, since he also had to authorize the NGE which made the expansion worthless.

    SOE's lawyers were smart enough to tell him this and make SOE offer the refund, otherwise they wouldn't have.

    That LA also would have agreed to such decsions is irrelavant.

    SOE in it's entire history has never refunded anything else, on a general basis, ever.

     

    SoE was not the publisher of Star Wars Galaxes.  They were the developer.  The responsibility actually belongs to Lucas Arts, not SoE

  • GreenHellGreenHell Member UncommonPosts: 1,323

    SOE were more than capable of fixing the bugs and improving the game, but held back by LA. If LA was not in the picture, and SW was their IP, they would have done a grand job.

    I would argue that they were not more than capable...ever. All you have is speculation that it was all LAs fault. I will throw this bit of speculation at you..

    LA has a meeting with SOE. They tell SOE they are dissapointed in the subs for this game and it's time for a change. SOE being the developer comes up with this radical new idea to copy WoW since it is kicking their ass with an IP that is no where near as strong as SW. LA says "hell.. do anything to make us money" SOE's incompetence shines through. 

    Doesn't that seem like a more likely scenario than LA telling SOE not to fix their buggy mess they developed? Do you really believe that LA stood over the shoulder of SOE the whole time? Really? If that was the case why didn't LA just develop the damn thing themselves? They went to SOE because when they started developing SWG SOE was pretty much king. LA should be blamed for trusting SOE.  It is obvious whatever quality control they have in place for their IP failed them miserably.

    SOE never lied, they were under NDA from LA. I worked for many companies, and kept taking orders for stuff that will end up either becoming cheaper the next day or go obsolete, and have to pretend that there is no change coming, when I know there is. If I said anything before they made the announcement themsleves, I would have lost my job. This stuff happens everywhere.

    There is a difference between keeping your mouth shut and selling a product that may well go obsolete or on sale and selling a BROKEN product that may well go obsolete or on sale. I don't care that the game changed. To me it's not about the NGE or CU. It is about how broken this damn game was from the begining and how SOE was never able to fix it. To me it is not about the things that were not said but about the things that were promised that never happened.

    SOE does care, there is doubt about that, and the problem is that they care too much. Perhaps if they shut down Vanguard and EQmac, then they would not get into a pickles (which is SOE downfall) and then have to partner with ProSieben. You can not have it all, but SOE sure do try to give it to us.

    You are right about one thing...there is a lot of doubt about that. I don't think SOE is the evil empire. They are simply an incompetent company that has a track record of saying one thing and either not doing it or doing something completely different. That is pretty much the definition of a lie. They treated their customers in a horrible fashion and then people like you want to blame it all on LA. SOE was responsible for development. Even if LA wanted to take the game in the NGE direction that it went it was SOE's job to develop that with quality. Quality is not something that goes hand in hand with SWG..unless you are talking about a total lack of it.

     

  • BurntvetBurntvet Member RarePosts: 3,465

    Originally posted by teakbois

    Originally posted by Burntvet

    Originally posted by teakbois

    Originally posted by Burntvet

    Heck, in the single instance of the ToOW expansion being sold just prior to the NGE and then made useless by the changes should have been enough to get the guy fired: that act alone violated/would have violated the consumer protection laws in many US States and SOE was forced to offer refunds on it or face legal sanction. That was all on Smed.

     

     

    Where is the proof to back this up that it was all on smed?

     

    Stop talking out of your ass.

    As a CEO, in the US, Smed bears the ultimate civil responsibilty for actions which break the law. As CEO, he would have to have made the decision to go forward, and since that action violated parts of the consumer protection laws for various states, the responsibilty belongs to him, since he also had to authorize the NGE which made the expansion worthless.

    SOE's lawyers were smart enough to tell him this and make SOE offer the refund, otherwise they wouldn't have.

    That LA also would have agreed to such decsions is irrelavant.

    SOE in it's entire history has never refunded anything else, on a general basis, ever.

     

    SoE was not the publisher of Star Wars Galaxes.  They were the developer.  The responsibility actually belongs to Lucas Arts, not SoE

     

    Legally, incorrect again.

    Who takes the money? That is what the law generally cares about. And "bait and switch" is about the point of sale. Which was all SOE. I never sent a dime to LA for SWG, did you? Nope.

    SOE was responsible for SELLING the product the violated the law. They are on the hook. That they knowingly did so as part of the development process only makes them more liable. You can try to split the liability for the decision making all you want, and sure, LA might get some, but as for the "doing" it was all on SOE, and that is what the law cares about and why, SOE offered the refund, which they have NEVER done, before or since.

    Legally SOE was plain screwed and they knew it. And in so doing, they INTENTIONALLY screwed the players, selling a product that would become immediately useless (or largely so, which is enough) with a "game update" i.e. the NGE, that was ALREADY finished.

    That is how much SOE "cares" about their customers. Period.

     

  • teakboisteakbois Member Posts: 2,154

    Originally posted by Burntvet

    Originally posted by teakbois

    Originally posted by Burntvet

    Originally posted by teakbois

    Originally posted by Burntvet

    Heck, in the single instance of the ToOW expansion being sold just prior to the NGE and then made useless by the changes should have been enough to get the guy fired: that act alone violated/would have violated the consumer protection laws in many US States and SOE was forced to offer refunds on it or face legal sanction. That was all on Smed.

     

     

    Where is the proof to back this up that it was all on smed?

     

    Stop talking out of your ass.

    As a CEO, in the US, Smed bears the ultimate civil responsibilty for actions which break the law. As CEO, he would have to have made the decision to go forward, and since that action violated parts of the consumer protection laws for various states, the responsibilty belongs to him, since he also had to authorize the NGE which made the expansion worthless.

    SOE's lawyers were smart enough to tell him this and make SOE offer the refund, otherwise they wouldn't have.

    That LA also would have agreed to such decsions is irrelavant.

    SOE in it's entire history has never refunded anything else, on a general basis, ever.

     

    SoE was not the publisher of Star Wars Galaxes.  They were the developer.  The responsibility actually belongs to Lucas Arts, not SoE

     

    Legally, incorrect again.

    Who takes the money? That is what the law generally cares about. And "bait and switch" is about the point of sale. Which was all SOE. I never sent a dime to LA for SWG, did you? Nope.

    SOE was responsible for SELLING the product the violated the law. They are on the hook. That they knowingly did so as part of the development process only makes them more liable. You can try to split the liability for the decision making all you want, and sure, LA might get some, but as for the "doing" it was all on SOE, and that is what the law cares about and why, SOE offered the refund, which they have NEVER done, before or since.

    Legally SOE was plain screwed and they knew it. And in so doing, they INTENTIONALLY screwed the players, selling a product that would become immediately useless (or largely so, which is enough) with a "game update" i.e. the NGE, that was ALREADY finished.

    That is how much SOE "cares" about their customers. Period.

     

         If it makes you sleep better at night thinking SoE did everything intentionally I guess you can be blissfully ignorant.  I just looked it up and it was joint publishing by SoE and Lucas Arts so you are right that SoE is partly responsible, legally.  If you think that threat of legal action is why refunds were issued though, well again whatever lets you sleep better at night.

         Here is the only fact:  The truth is locked away under confidentiality agreements.  Although Freeman had probably slipped outside of that agreement with quotes like this about why pre-NGE wasnt rolled back:

    Bottom line is LEC has a little more authority than SOE's zero-authority to make that decision, but ultimately I don't think it matter whether either of them want to do it or not. 



    It's LucasFilm's decision, and I'd bet all they know about the subject is that even the people who did like SWG - of which there weren't nearly as many as there should have been - don't like it now. 

    Some other interesting quotes from Freeman:

    Meanwhile, LEC's been focusing on improving their image overall - canceling the sort of 'poop in a box with a SW logo'-projects they were starting to be known for and trying to establish an association between their logo and good games. If not for contractual obligations, they'd probably have canceled SWG regardless of profitability just to eliminate one more game with their logo and a meta-critic rating of 69 being out there. 

     

    If LucasFilm authorizes the license's use in the MMO space, it's going to be for something they hope to be bigger than WoW - a SWG classic server, that ain't. 

     

  • CujoSWAoACujoSWAoA Member UncommonPosts: 1,781

    Bottom line is.

    SOE makes bad games.

    LucasArts' head is so far up its own ass it doesn't know how to produce a good Star Wars title.

    What that leaves us with (Star Wars fans) is disappointment and frustration.

    End of story.

  • BurntvetBurntvet Member RarePosts: 3,465

    Originally posted by teakbois

    Originally posted by Burntvet

    Originally posted by teakbois

    Originally posted by Burntvet

    Originally posted by teakbois

    Originally posted by Burntvet

    Heck, in the single instance of the ToOW expansion being sold just prior to the NGE and then made useless by the changes should have been enough to get the guy fired: that act alone violated/would have violated the consumer protection laws in many US States and SOE was forced to offer refunds on it or face legal sanction. That was all on Smed.

     

     

    Where is the proof to back this up that it was all on smed?

     

    Stop talking out of your ass.

    As a CEO, in the US, Smed bears the ultimate civil responsibilty for actions which break the law. As CEO, he would have to have made the decision to go forward, and since that action violated parts of the consumer protection laws for various states, the responsibilty belongs to him, since he also had to authorize the NGE which made the expansion worthless.

    SOE's lawyers were smart enough to tell him this and make SOE offer the refund, otherwise they wouldn't have.

    That LA also would have agreed to such decsions is irrelavant.

    SOE in it's entire history has never refunded anything else, on a general basis, ever.

     

    SoE was not the publisher of Star Wars Galaxes.  They were the developer.  The responsibility actually belongs to Lucas Arts, not SoE

     

    Legally, incorrect again.

    Who takes the money? That is what the law generally cares about. And "bait and switch" is about the point of sale. Which was all SOE. I never sent a dime to LA for SWG, did you? Nope.

    SOE was responsible for SELLING the product the violated the law. They are on the hook. That they knowingly did so as part of the development process only makes them more liable. You can try to split the liability for the decision making all you want, and sure, LA might get some, but as for the "doing" it was all on SOE, and that is what the law cares about and why, SOE offered the refund, which they have NEVER done, before or since.

    Legally SOE was plain screwed and they knew it. And in so doing, they INTENTIONALLY screwed the players, selling a product that would become immediately useless (or largely so, which is enough) with a "game update" i.e. the NGE, that was ALREADY finished.

    That is how much SOE "cares" about their customers. Period.

     

         If it makes you sleep better at night thinking SoE did everything intentionally I guess you can be blissfully ignorant.  I just looked it up and it was joint publishing by SoE and Lucas Arts so you are right that SoE is partly responsible, legally.  If you think that threat of legal action is why refunds were issued though, well again whatever lets you sleep better at night.

         Here is the only fact:  The truth is locked away under confidentiality agreements.  Although Freeman had probably slipped outside of that agreement with quotes like this about why pre-NGE wasnt rolled back:

     

     

     

    Of course SOE did it intentionally... do you think that the ToOW expansion magically appeared? And that on 15 Nov 2005 the NGE magically came into being? Without all the executives approving everything?

    SOE was responsible for both of those things, LA, to a lesser extent. In so doing, they almost certainly broke the law.

    Something else you might want to research, is the penalties for consumer protection laws. In several US states, these include 3X damages for fraud, i.e. when a company KNOWINGLY does something to screw over the paying public, which is what we have here, so for each copy of ToOW they sold in CA and many other states, it could have cost them $80 per copy, plus paying their own lawyers. It was cheaper to offer refunds than open themselves up to that kind of liability.

    So, considering this is the only time SOE EVER refunded money back for anything (including unused play time after the NGE was done, which they did not do), there was a legal reason for doing so, in all likelihood. SOE simply thought they could get away with it.

    As to the topic of this thread, all of THAT is how much (and more) SOE doesn't give a crap about their customers, then and now.
  • KonfessKonfess Member RarePosts: 1,667

    Originally posted by Robsolf

    Originally posted by TUX426

    Your title is 100% misleading. That was NEVER said anywhere in the interview. Holy crap you like to make shit up.

    What is it with posters and over the top thread titles, lately?  They've always been kinda silly, but lately it's been batsh!t crazy hour...

    Unless the title has been changed since your comments, The OP's title is 100% correct. If you do a search (ctrl + F) you will find the quote that the title is based on.  Now, if you are arguing that LA didn’t control SWG through the use of licensing fees.  I would hope that you see that LA did just that as the title suggests.

    Pardon any spelling errors
    Konfess your cyns and some maybe forgiven
    Boy: Why can't I talk to Him?
    Mom: We don't talk to Priests.
    As if it could exist, without being payed for.
    F2P means you get what you paid for. Pay nothing, get nothing.
    Even telemarketers wouldn't think that.
    It costs money to play.  Therefore P2W.

  • superniceguysuperniceguy Member UncommonPosts: 2,278

    Originally posted by GreenHell

    SOE were more than capable of fixing the bugs and improving the game, but held back by LA. If LA was not in the picture, and SW was their IP, they would have done a grand job.

    I would argue that they were not more than capable...ever. All you have is speculation that it was all LAs fault. I will throw this bit of speculation at you..

    LA has a meeting with SOE. They tell SOE they are dissapointed in the subs for this game and it's time for a change. SOE being the developer comes up with this radical new idea to copy WoW since it is kicking their ass with an IP that is no where near as strong as SW. LA says "hell.. do anything to make us money" SOE's incompetence shines through. 

    Doesn't that seem like a more likely scenario than LA telling SOE not to fix their buggy mess they developed? Do you really believe that LA stood over the shoulder of SOE the whole time? Really? If that was the case why didn't LA just develop the damn thing themselves? They went to SOE because when they started developing SWG SOE was pretty much king. LA should be blamed for trusting SOE.  It is obvious whatever quality control they have in place for their IP failed them miserably.

    SOE never lied, they were under NDA from LA. I worked for many companies, and kept taking orders for stuff that will end up either becoming cheaper the next day or go obsolete, and have to pretend that there is no change coming, when I know there is. If I said anything before they made the announcement themsleves, I would have lost my job. This stuff happens everywhere.

    There is a difference between keeping your mouth shut and selling a product that may well go obsolete or on sale and selling a BROKEN product that may well go obsolete or on sale. I don't care that the game changed. To me it's not about the NGE or CU. It is about how broken this damn game was from the begining and how SOE was never able to fix it. To me it is not about the things that were not said but about the things that were promised that never happened.

    SOE does care, there is doubt about that, and the problem is that they care too much. Perhaps if they shut down Vanguard and EQmac, then they would not get into a pickles (which is SOE downfall) and then have to partner with ProSieben. You can not have it all, but SOE sure do try to give it to us.

    You are right about one thing...there is a lot of doubt about that. I don't think SOE is the evil empire. They are simply an incompetent company that has a track record of saying one thing and either not doing it or doing something completely different. That is pretty much the definition of a lie. They treated their customers in a horrible fashion and then people like you want to blame it all on LA. SOE was responsible for development. Even if LA wanted to take the game in the NGE direction that it went it was SOE's job to develop that with quality. Quality is not something that goes hand in hand with SWG..unless you are talking about a total lack of it.

     



    Go and get intimate with SOE / have one to ones with Smedley, then come back and bad mouth SOE, I bet you won't (bad mouth SOE that is as will see them for what they truly are), and I doubt you will bother with contacting SOE either so then you can keep up your misguided hate towards them

    Star Trek Online - Best Free MMORPG of 2012

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  • superniceguysuperniceguy Member UncommonPosts: 2,278

    Originally posted by Burntvet

    Originally posted by superniceguy

    Originally posted by Burntvet

     

    P.S. Edit: and that is only about SWG. Smed and SOE have lied many, many times to customers about their other games, including EQ2 (especially in regards to putting in Station Cash, which Smed himself came out and promised would not happen, only to have it happen shortly later) and that had ABSOLUTELY NOTHING to do with LA. It was SOE lying to their customers, again.

     

     

     

    Anything to do with SWG, was down to LA.

    I do not know the full details of Station Cash, but it has not stopped me from enjoying their games, I forget it is there, so the fact they changed their minds on that is just ann optional extra, and looking for things to say bad things about them.

    The only people who say bad things about SOE never get to know them or cummincate with them rationally. I bet if you ended up speaking with Smedley, you would see that he cares about the players. I have yet to see someone actually speak to Smedley and then still come away hating him.

    Here is another example, in search about the station cash. He also said they would not go free to play, but now all their games are turning F2P, and future games will be F2P from the get go. They do not lie at the time, the change their minds with constant changing of the industry. You are just lookling for excuses to make them out to be the bad guys and it is just pathetic.

     

    That's the best you've got? "Gee, if more people knew Smed, more people would like him?"

    Really?

    The dude has straight up lied so many times, that he has less than no credibility. As a CEO and as a man, all you have is your word. Once you break that, as publicly and repeatedly as Smed has, your reputation is nothing. Any other CEO making half the bad decisions he has and lying to customers as much as he has, would have been fired or resigned a long, long time ago.

    Heck, in the single instance of the ToOW expansion being sold just prior to the NGE and then made useless by the changes should have been enough to get the guy fired: that act alone violated/would have violated the consumer protection laws in many US States and SOE was forced to offer refunds on it or face legal sanction. That was all on Smed.

    I don't care if Smed is a great guy to have a beer with: he is a liar and a poor excuse for a CEO. And that is not really an opinion.

    SOE apologists want to blame LA for everything for the downfall of SWG and the facts just do not bear that out. All LA cared about was getting their check. SOE are the ones that came up with the ideas and poorly implemented them. That is the long and the short of it, and one need only read the Freeman and RUbenfeld blogs to see it.

    Only people who refuse to see the truth for what it is, and judge people by WHAT THEY SAID THEMSELVES, could possible continue to defend SOE for their atrocious conduct with SWG and their other games, in regards to treatment of their customers.

     

    There is a difference between lying and unable to do so due to confidentiality - get a clue



    Go and have a one to one meeting with Smedley then you will earn the right to keep bad mouthing him, until then constantly bashing him is pathetic, and shows you have zero credibility

     

    Star Trek Online - Best Free MMORPG of 2012

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  • BurntvetBurntvet Member RarePosts: 3,465

    Originally posted by superniceguy

    Originally posted by Burntvet

    Originally posted by superniceguy

    Originally posted by Burntvet

     

    P.S. Edit: and that is only about SWG. Smed and SOE have lied many, many times to customers about their other games, including EQ2 (especially in regards to putting in Station Cash, which Smed himself came out and promised would not happen, only to have it happen shortly later) and that had ABSOLUTELY NOTHING to do with LA. It was SOE lying to their customers, again.

     

     

     

    Anything to do with SWG, was down to LA.

    I do not know the full details of Station Cash, but it has not stopped me from enjoying their games, I forget it is there, so the fact they changed their minds on that is just ann optional extra, and looking for things to say bad things about them.

    The only people who say bad things about SOE never get to know them or cummincate with them rationally. I bet if you ended up speaking with Smedley, you would see that he cares about the players. I have yet to see someone actually speak to Smedley and then still come away hating him.

    Here is another example, in search about the station cash. He also said they would not go free to play, but now all their games are turning F2P, and future games will be F2P from the get go. They do not lie at the time, the change their minds with constant changing of the industry. You are just lookling for excuses to make them out to be the bad guys and it is just pathetic.

     

    That's the best you've got? "Gee, if more people knew Smed, more people would like him?"

    Really?

    The dude has straight up lied so many times, that he has less than no credibility. As a CEO and as a man, all you have is your word. Once you break that, as publicly and repeatedly as Smed has, your reputation is nothing. Any other CEO making half the bad decisions he has and lying to customers as much as he has, would have been fired or resigned a long, long time ago.

    Heck, in the single instance of the ToOW expansion being sold just prior to the NGE and then made useless by the changes should have been enough to get the guy fired: that act alone violated/would have violated the consumer protection laws in many US States and SOE was forced to offer refunds on it or face legal sanction. That was all on Smed.

    I don't care if Smed is a great guy to have a beer with: he is a liar and a poor excuse for a CEO. And that is not really an opinion.

    SOE apologists want to blame LA for everything for the downfall of SWG and the facts just do not bear that out. All LA cared about was getting their check. SOE are the ones that came up with the ideas and poorly implemented them. That is the long and the short of it, and one need only read the Freeman and RUbenfeld blogs to see it.

    Only people who refuse to see the truth for what it is, and judge people by WHAT THEY SAID THEMSELVES, could possible continue to defend SOE for their atrocious conduct with SWG and their other games, in regards to treatment of their customers.

     

    There is a difference between lying and unable to do so due to confidentiality - get a clue



    Go and have a one to one meeting with Smedley then you will earn the right to keep bad mouthing him, until then constantly bashing him is pathetic, and shows you have zero credibility

     

     

    Oh please... do you even listen to yourself?

    Yeah, customers need to have a one on one conversation with the CEO of a company before they can criticize and hold accountable the person for the THINGS THEY SAID PUBLICLY?

    Really?

    I am a former paying customer who was treated badly over the years by the corporate behavior of a company that was run by the lying Smed. That is all I need have. And guess what? I don't need to say anything, when I can quote the lying Smed's own statements back, showing how he says one thing, and then does another, always to the detriment of the customer.

    You sir, are in your own little world, if you think people need a private meeting with a CEO before being justified in calling out bad corporate behavior.

    How's the weather in there?

     

  • GreenHellGreenHell Member UncommonPosts: 1,323

    Go and get intimate with SOE / have one to ones with Smedley, then come back and bad mouth SOE, I bet you won't (bad mouth SOE that is as will see them for what they truly are), and I doubt you will bother with contacting SOE either so then you can keep up your misguided hate towards them

    You really come across as a rabid fan sort of like an 8 year old girl when she is talking about Justing Bieber. You seem starstruck by the Smed. It is starting to get more than a bit frightening.  Was this your first contact with someone in this industry? Did Smed bare his soul to you about the evils of LA?

    Lets be honest it doesn't matter to you what anyone here says. What proof of the lies they told ( yes..things they actually said that had nothing to do with the NGE) we could show you. You have this strange image in your mind of Smed the Saint who tried with all of his heart to save SWG from LA. This caring Mother Teresa of the MMO world that doesn't care about profit only the happiness of its customers.

    As I told you before I don't see SOE as the evil empire. I don't hate them. I honestly don't care enough to but things are the way they are. Rewritting history to make it fit your vision of what happened does not make it the truth.

  • teakboisteakbois Member Posts: 2,154

    Originally posted by Burntvet

    As to the topic of this thread, all of THAT is how much (and more) SOE doesn't give a crap about their customers, then and now.

    There is nothing to indicate that SoE had any control over anything with respect to NGE though, so it simply can not be used as an example.   There is plenty to indicate their hands were VERY tied.   The case needs to be built off something other than NGE, and the prosabien thing because that isnt finalized yet and indications are that the customers concerns will be addressed (Prosaben has said they are woring on a way so everyone can access everything)

  • superniceguysuperniceguy Member UncommonPosts: 2,278

    Originally posted by Burntvet

    Originally posted by superniceguy

    Originally posted by Burntvet

    Originally posted by superniceguy

    Originally posted by Burntvet

     

    P.S. Edit: and that is only about SWG. Smed and SOE have lied many, many times to customers about their other games, including EQ2 (especially in regards to putting in Station Cash, which Smed himself came out and promised would not happen, only to have it happen shortly later) and that had ABSOLUTELY NOTHING to do with LA. It was SOE lying to their customers, again.

     

     

     

    Anything to do with SWG, was down to LA.

    I do not know the full details of Station Cash, but it has not stopped me from enjoying their games, I forget it is there, so the fact they changed their minds on that is just ann optional extra, and looking for things to say bad things about them.

    The only people who say bad things about SOE never get to know them or cummincate with them rationally. I bet if you ended up speaking with Smedley, you would see that he cares about the players. I have yet to see someone actually speak to Smedley and then still come away hating him.

    Here is another example, in search about the station cash. He also said they would not go free to play, but now all their games are turning F2P, and future games will be F2P from the get go. They do not lie at the time, the change their minds with constant changing of the industry. You are just lookling for excuses to make them out to be the bad guys and it is just pathetic.

     

    That's the best you've got? "Gee, if more people knew Smed, more people would like him?"

    Really?

    The dude has straight up lied so many times, that he has less than no credibility. As a CEO and as a man, all you have is your word. Once you break that, as publicly and repeatedly as Smed has, your reputation is nothing. Any other CEO making half the bad decisions he has and lying to customers as much as he has, would have been fired or resigned a long, long time ago.

    Heck, in the single instance of the ToOW expansion being sold just prior to the NGE and then made useless by the changes should have been enough to get the guy fired: that act alone violated/would have violated the consumer protection laws in many US States and SOE was forced to offer refunds on it or face legal sanction. That was all on Smed.

    I don't care if Smed is a great guy to have a beer with: he is a liar and a poor excuse for a CEO. And that is not really an opinion.

    SOE apologists want to blame LA for everything for the downfall of SWG and the facts just do not bear that out. All LA cared about was getting their check. SOE are the ones that came up with the ideas and poorly implemented them. That is the long and the short of it, and one need only read the Freeman and RUbenfeld blogs to see it.

    Only people who refuse to see the truth for what it is, and judge people by WHAT THEY SAID THEMSELVES, could possible continue to defend SOE for their atrocious conduct with SWG and their other games, in regards to treatment of their customers.

     

    There is a difference between lying and unable to do so due to confidentiality - get a clue



    Go and have a one to one meeting with Smedley then you will earn the right to keep bad mouthing him, until then constantly bashing him is pathetic, and shows you have zero credibility

     

     

    Oh please... do you even listen to yourself?

    Yeah, customers need to have a one on one conversation with the CEO of a company before they can criticize and hold accountable the person for the THINGS THEY SAID PUBLICLY?

    Really?

    I am a former paying customer who was treated badly over the years by the corporate behavior of a company that was run by the lying Smed. That is all I need have. And guess what? I don't need to say anything, when I can quote the lying Smed's own statements back, showing how he says one thing, and then does another, always to the detriment of the customer.

    You sir, are in your own little world, if you think people need a private meeting with a CEO before being justified in calling out bad corporate behavior.

    How's the weather in there?

     



    I should listen to myself? I think you got that the other way round

    The weather where I am is clear and bright, it seems foggy where you are

    You seem to concentrate on what they have done, and not why they have done them. Do you know why they changed their minds? I don't know, do you? It most certainly is not to annoy me or you or any of their customers, although that may end up being the case, but that is not their intention, and no doubt done to save the company from bankruptcy.

    Whatever the reason it will never be known due to confidentiality agreements. Anything said in public is never the 100% truth. Cerain things can not be said because of confidentiality agreements.

    SOE have most certainly done things that have annoyed me, but I can not bash them for it, as I know better. I may even quit their games if whatever they do makes things unenjoyable, but I am not going to go vilify them all over the forums like you do, when I do not know the full facts, as even though people like you may agree with my angst, what I say will be total and utter BS.

    Star Trek Online - Best Free MMORPG of 2012

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  • superniceguysuperniceguy Member UncommonPosts: 2,278

    Originally posted by GreenHell

    Go and get intimate with SOE / have one to ones with Smedley, then come back and bad mouth SOE, I bet you won't (bad mouth SOE that is as will see them for what they truly are), and I doubt you will bother with contacting SOE either so then you can keep up your misguided hate towards them

    You really come across as a rabid fan sort of like an 8 year old girl when she is talking about Justing Bieber. You seem starstruck by the Smed. It is starting to get more than a bit frightening.  Was this your first contact with someone in this industry? Did Smed bare his soul to you about the evils of LA?

    Lets be honest it doesn't matter to you what anyone here says. What proof of the lies they told ( yes..things they actually said that had nothing to do with the NGE) we could show you. You have this strange image in your mind of Smed the Saint who tried with all of his heart to save SWG from LA. This caring Mother Teresa of the MMO world that doesn't care about profit only the happiness of its customers.

    As I told you before I don't see SOE as the evil empire. I don't hate them. I honestly don't care enough to but things are the way they are. Rewritting history to make it fit your vision of what happened does not make it the truth.

    Most of the history is built up from customers anger and twisted to make SOE look bad. There is plenty of history elsewhere that refutes all that, here for example

    Smed seems cares more than other MMO companies, but can only go so far as they are a business, and just can not keep doing stuff for free. No income = no SOE

    + read most of my previous post

    Star Trek Online - Best Free MMORPG of 2012

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  • GreenHellGreenHell Member UncommonPosts: 1,323

    Most of the history is built up from customers anger and twisted to make SOE look bad. There is plenty of history elsewhere that refutes all that, here for example

    No one had to make SOE look bad they did it on there own. You are stuck on this NGE thing and that is not where I am coming from. How many times I have said in multiple posts that Im not talking about the NGE? I don't care about the changes the NGE made except for the fact that it was, like everything else SOE did with SWG a buggy mess. I am not talking about the direction the game went. I don't really care who made the call to do it. SOE should have been able to develop it and release it with out the mess it was for months after.

    Smed seems cares more than other MMO companies, but can only go so far as they are a business, and just can not keep doing stuff for free. No income = no SOE

    But you told me he keeps VG and EQmac going out of the goodness of his heart. That they are not making any money off of those games. So is he a saint of a business man?

    + read most of my previous post

    I have been and your blind devotion frightens me. I am curious as to what your agenda is though. 

     

  • winterwinter Member UncommonPosts: 2,281

    Originally posted by superniceguy

    Originally posted by xr00t3dx

    LA was calling the shot but saying SOE cares about it's customers made me choke on my Bacon, Egg and Chesse sandwhich. That game was bleeding money and the bottom line is now it's not. Stop trusting everything you read. 

    I do not trust everything I read, I trust my experineces with SOE directly, and also had personal commucation with Smedly himself.

    I have yet to get to communicate with the president of any other MMO company. It is just blocked by customer support, and they do not want to to speak to customers.

     

     

      I assume your credit card information wasn't jacked when SOE knowingly after being warned about lack of data secrurity months in advance decided to do nothing and let hackers have at their customers credit card information? 

  • PhryPhry Member LegendaryPosts: 11,004

    Originally posted by winter

    Originally posted by superniceguy

    Originally posted by xr00t3dx

    LA was calling the shot but saying SOE cares about it's customers made me choke on my Bacon, Egg and Chesse sandwhich. That game was bleeding money and the bottom line is now it's not. Stop trusting everything you read. 

    I do not trust everything I read, I trust my experineces with SOE directly, and also had personal commucation with Smedly himself.

    I have yet to get to communicate with the president of any other MMO company. It is just blocked by customer support, and they do not want to to speak to customers.

     

     

      I assume your credit card information wasn't jacked when SOE knowingly after being warned about lack of data secrurity months in advance decided to do nothing and let hackers have at their customers credit card information? 

    not only is that credit card debacle old news, but its also totally irrelevant,  isnt it now a bit late in the day to still be playing the blame game, i would hope that by now all parties concerned will have learned something from it all.image god knows we don't seem to be image

  • teakboisteakbois Member Posts: 2,154

    Originally posted by winter

    Originally posted by superniceguy

    Originally posted by xr00t3dx

    LA was calling the shot but saying SOE cares about it's customers made me choke on my Bacon, Egg and Chesse sandwhich. That game was bleeding money and the bottom line is now it's not. Stop trusting everything you read. 

    I do not trust everything I read, I trust my experineces with SOE directly, and also had personal commucation with Smedly himself.

    I have yet to get to communicate with the president of any other MMO company. It is just blocked by customer support, and they do not want to to speak to customers.

     

     

      I assume your credit card information wasn't jacked when SOE knowingly after being warned about lack of data secrurity months in advance decided to do nothing and let hackers have at their customers credit card information? 

    Yes, Im sure SoE was perfectly aware that in the transition from SMP to SCE there was a small batch of european credit card numbers where it shouldnt have been and left it intenionally up for hackers to get at.

     

    And if you think SoE is the only MMO company that knowingly had weaker security than they could have (and SoE did have the security they are required by law to have contrary to what ive heard some people say)  I got a bridge for sale in brookyln

  • superniceguysuperniceguy Member UncommonPosts: 2,278

    Originally posted by winter

    Originally posted by superniceguy

    Originally posted by xr00t3dx

    LA was calling the shot but saying SOE cares about it's customers made me choke on my Bacon, Egg and Chesse sandwhich. That game was bleeding money and the bottom line is now it's not. Stop trusting everything you read. 

    I do not trust everything I read, I trust my experineces with SOE directly, and also had personal commucation with Smedly himself.

    I have yet to get to communicate with the president of any other MMO company. It is just blocked by customer support, and they do not want to to speak to customers.

     

     

      I assume your credit card information wasn't jacked when SOE knowingly after being warned about lack of data secrurity months in advance decided to do nothing and let hackers have at their customers credit card information? 

    No, but it could have been if playing WOW, as that got hacked and I was not even playing it.

    Star Trek Online - Best Free MMORPG of 2012

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This discussion has been closed.