Do you know of many farmers, artisans, merchants or present day Civilians that are able to elude professional trained military personnel?
It is just not the nature of things.
The way it is suposed to work is that the stronger defend the weaker against the predators.
So the response to the crafter being attacked by a ambushing coward is a Knight in shining armor comming to his/her defense.
How many civilians are out there doing things which would attract military attention so that they could elude them for fun?
Nobody?
Well then why would you think that would be fun in a game?
Truth's suggestion of making the Cat and Mouse game a game (rather than a one-sided predetermined bore-fest) would actually improve these types of games a lot.
FrostWyrm's comments are also smart. PVP is players fighting players. It's hard to pretend that the one-sided slaughters that happen in games like DF are truly PVP. It makes for shallow gameplay, and the real PVPers strongly prefer the types of situations FrostWyrm describes, where it's a true stand-up fight where the skilled player wins. DF definitely isn't like that and is more a test of how much you can outgrind and out-zerg your opposition (quite shallow.)
"What is truly revealing is his implication that believing something to be true is the same as it being true. [continue]" -John Oliver
Last time I played Darkfall, just starting on the NA server, I was ganked or had gank attempts on me more than a handful of times in the newb areas in a matter of hours.
The game really isn't worth the hassle. Darkfall could increase their playerbase by many times if they just added some relatively safe areas to play. They don't even need %100 safe areas, just areas that are mostly safe, that actually also put the gankers at risk of losing something other than easily replaced gear.
Darkfall is a griefers paradise.
Having to watch your back every second is in no way, shape, or form, thrilling.
I can equate trying to start from scratch in the game to going into lvl 85 battlegrounds with green pve gear in wow. Except you're not rewarded nearly as much for playing.
Last time I played DFO I found the starter areas to be allmost completely devoid of other players. THey had all moved on because there wasn't anyone to gank anymore. I saw about 6 people in the ork capital cities in the month I bought. I ran the noob dungeons and surrounding areas almost completely uncontested. Only some random Alfar who had traveled to the Ork lands ever posed a threat.
This was very similar to my experience with DF. Except in the first hour I played I only saw one other player. There were barely any mobs either. Darkfall felt like the devs created the landscape but forgot to put anything on it.
Where was all this ganking taking place?
There are certain queer times and occasions in this strange mixed affair we call life when a man takes this whole universe for a vast practical joke, though the wit thereof he but dimly discerns, and more than suspects that the joke is at nobody's expense but his own. -- Herman Melville
This was very similar to my experience with DF. Except in the first hour I played I only saw one other player. There were barely any mobs either. Darkfall felt like the devs created the landscape but forgot to put anything on it.
Where was all this ganking taking place?
A few years ago, when the game started. When there are actually people playing, before everyone left.
Do you know of many farmers, artisans, merchants or present day Civilians that are able to elude professional trained military personnel?
It is just not the nature of things.
The way it is suposed to work is that the stronger defend the weaker against the predators.
So the response to the crafter being attacked by a ambushing coward is a Knight in shining armor comming to his/her defense.
How many civilians are out there doing things which would attract military attention so that they could elude them for fun?
Nobody?
Well then why would you think that would be fun in a game?
Truth's suggestion of making the Cat and Mouse game a game (rather than a one-sided predetermined bore-fest) would actually improve these types of games a lot.
FrostWyrm's comments are also smart. PVP is players fighting players. It's hard to pretend that the one-sided slaughters that happen in games like DF are truly PVP. It makes for shallow gameplay, and the real PVPers strongly prefer the types of situations FrostWyrm describes, where it's a true stand-up fight where the skilled player wins. DF definitely isn't like that and is more a test of how much you can outgrind and out-zerg your opposition (quite shallow.)
Actually there is plenty, in Africa and Asia....that are suffering...
Just becuase you do not see that in your negborhood it does not mean that it does not exist.
But the point was in relation to a game's interaction and environment. I am not saying Frostwyrm is not making some interesting idea here, all I am saying is that I see it from another angle.
Sadbox games are Worlds, inhabited by players, they should not be seen from the themepark eye, as single player focussed, Sandbox games appeal to the natural condition of people to be social beings.
Now, not all Sandbox games need to have FFA PvP and Full loot to be Sandbox, I agree to that.
Yet, in those that there are such mechanics it is intended for a certain interaction Dynamic to to take place and for a certain Atmosphere to be part of the experience.
in UO for instance, there was Full Loot, and you would have the Murderers (PK's) and you would have the Civilians (Crafters) and you would also have the Knights in Shining armor protecting the Weak and the innocent (Anti-PK's).
There was a relationship that established itself in a very natural manner.
Just like in our Medieval Histrory in RL, there was Marauding Murderous Groups, and there was communities of Farmers and Artisans who lived under the Protection of Men at Arms, Fighters, Knights etc...of course in our RL history there was some abuse too by the PRotectors towards the Farmers..but in a game this does not exist, players establish relationships and assume roles according to their free will. Some like to Fight some Like to Craft, Some like to Protect Others and some want to Murder and Steal from others.
It is a dynamic and atmosphere of a given world and environment that many do like to play in as it provides them with a more intense and real experience.
DF did not have this because DF was badly designed....but UO did.
- Duke Suraknar - Order of the Silver Star, OSS
ESKA, Playing MMORPG's since Ultima Online 1997 - Order of the Silver Serpent, Atlantic Shard
Comments
How many civilians are out there doing things which would attract military attention so that they could elude them for fun?
Nobody?
Well then why would you think that would be fun in a game?
Truth's suggestion of making the Cat and Mouse game a game (rather than a one-sided predetermined bore-fest) would actually improve these types of games a lot.
FrostWyrm's comments are also smart. PVP is players fighting players. It's hard to pretend that the one-sided slaughters that happen in games like DF are truly PVP. It makes for shallow gameplay, and the real PVPers strongly prefer the types of situations FrostWyrm describes, where it's a true stand-up fight where the skilled player wins. DF definitely isn't like that and is more a test of how much you can outgrind and out-zerg your opposition (quite shallow.)
"What is truly revealing is his implication that believing something to be true is the same as it being true. [continue]" -John Oliver
This was very similar to my experience with DF. Except in the first hour I played I only saw one other player. There were barely any mobs either. Darkfall felt like the devs created the landscape but forgot to put anything on it.
Where was all this ganking taking place?
There are certain queer times and occasions in this strange mixed affair we call life when a man takes this whole universe for a vast practical joke, though the wit thereof he but dimly discerns, and more than suspects that the joke is at nobody's expense but his own.
-- Herman Melville
A few years ago, when the game started. When there are actually people playing, before everyone left.
I just wanted to say that Anarchy does not equal Sandbox...
Actually there is plenty, in Africa and Asia....that are suffering...
Just becuase you do not see that in your negborhood it does not mean that it does not exist.
But the point was in relation to a game's interaction and environment. I am not saying Frostwyrm is not making some interesting idea here, all I am saying is that I see it from another angle.
Sadbox games are Worlds, inhabited by players, they should not be seen from the themepark eye, as single player focussed, Sandbox games appeal to the natural condition of people to be social beings.
Now, not all Sandbox games need to have FFA PvP and Full loot to be Sandbox, I agree to that.
Yet, in those that there are such mechanics it is intended for a certain interaction Dynamic to to take place and for a certain Atmosphere to be part of the experience.
in UO for instance, there was Full Loot, and you would have the Murderers (PK's) and you would have the Civilians (Crafters) and you would also have the Knights in Shining armor protecting the Weak and the innocent (Anti-PK's).
There was a relationship that established itself in a very natural manner.
Just like in our Medieval Histrory in RL, there was Marauding Murderous Groups, and there was communities of Farmers and Artisans who lived under the Protection of Men at Arms, Fighters, Knights etc...of course in our RL history there was some abuse too by the PRotectors towards the Farmers..but in a game this does not exist, players establish relationships and assume roles according to their free will. Some like to Fight some Like to Craft, Some like to Protect Others and some want to Murder and Steal from others.
It is a dynamic and atmosphere of a given world and environment that many do like to play in as it provides them with a more intense and real experience.
DF did not have this because DF was badly designed....but UO did.
Order of the Silver Star, OSS
ESKA, Playing MMORPG's since Ultima Online 1997 - Order of the Silver Serpent, Atlantic Shard