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  • RagnorMalakRagnorMalak Member UncommonPosts: 115

    Originally posted by Entioch

    If you could narrow that down to the most impressive pro, and most distressing con, Id gladly add them to the list on the front page, If you'd rather leave this here thats fine as well.


     

    Will do:

     

    - The thing I like the most in GW2 is the dynamic events system which really encourages the player to go out and explore the world.

    - The thing that has me worried the most is the performance issues some of the journalists spoke about. Hopefully they will fix this before launch, otherwise WvW isn't fun at all, when you have constant lag with a lot of people around. And WvW is one of the things Im looking forward to the most.

    image
  • Superduper69Superduper69 Member Posts: 363

    So my  concerns (sorry for not dividing them up in last psot) ;

    1.) Effect of console release on gameplay for PC.

    2.) Repetition of DE's and their longeviety, how long before they lose freshness.

    3.) DE's ending up like Rifts where players played on side of others and not with eachother.

  • Master10KMaster10K Member Posts: 3,065

    Pro - I'm loving how smooth and visual the combat looks. How I'll be able to attack on the move, with most abilities and activitely avoid abilities through pure skill on my part (no RNG). Also like how visual the combat is, like how the borders on the screen change colour, or my character changes colour to show the the status effect it is under (rather than the ridiculous buff & debuff bar in Rift).

     

    Con - However I'm beginning to also feel like the particle effects are a bit much in group environments. Not all of them, but certain ones like Smoke blast, blue Guardian auras, Ranger auras and Fire are a bit too much. ArenaNet... turn that down or allow players to turn it down and your combat will be perfect for me (only I find a new flaw).

    image

  • mazutmazut Member UncommonPosts: 988

    To be really objective this thread need to be on Beta forums. I really hope Anet to make their own beta forum where all testers (Ony players who experience the game 1st hand) discuss such topics.

    Everything else is speculation and even if its true, wont be consider as useful.

  • BadSpockBadSpock Member UncommonPosts: 7,979

    A) Really like the non linear free-form exploration aspect of PvE and Dynamic Events. I tried to play Rift this way, just skipping the quest hub garbage quests and only doing crafting/Rifts and such - but they were too few and far between (and with so little variety) to be fun after a while.

    B) I am kind of worried about end game. Lots of fun competitive PvP and WvW, but even with dungeons and exploration dungeons and elite DE's, will it be enough to keep my/our attention long term?

    I actually like raiding, and really hope the "end game" DE's and Elite DE's will be a perfect/good substitute and possibly be even better due to their pubilc nature and size/scale.

     

  • moosecatlolmoosecatlol Member RarePosts: 1,531

    It's a shame that most cons are spawned from ignorance :(, almost thought this was going to be good.

  • Superduper69Superduper69 Member Posts: 363

    Originally posted by moosecatlol

    It's a shame that most cons are spawned from ignorance :(, almost thought this was going to be good.

    For example?

  • DeathofsageDeathofsage Member UncommonPosts: 1,102

    Originally posted by Superduper69

    Originally posted by moosecatlol

    It's a shame that most cons are spawned from ignorance :(, almost thought this was going to be good.

    For example?

    He probably means something like

     

    Fear of gear progression hindering retention - "Ignorant" players not wanting to start at 0 again when they can go back to Orgrimmar, even if they're tired of the game, and have their characters and familiarity.

    WvW incentive x2

    Potential for lackluster community x2

    over saturation of particle effects

    Mechanics of manual placement aoe's - "Ignorant" players not understanding the game.

    Dangers of population distribution this type of game

    Lackluster difficulty present in other non-trinity games - "Ignorant" players thinking this game will be easy because [x] was easy or "How hard can it be if you're meant to survive the damage?"

    Potential for leveling to be overly casual do to linear experience increases.

    NCsofts reputation with customer service - NCSoft is Ignorant. lol.

    Potential for cash shop microtransaction abuse

    Movement animation concerns

    Spec'ing properly is a gateway drug.
    12 Million People have been meter spammed in heroics.

  • BadSpockBadSpock Member UncommonPosts: 7,979

    Originally posted by Deathofsage

    Originally posted by Superduper69


    Originally posted by moosecatlol

    It's a shame that most cons are spawned from ignorance :(, almost thought this was going to be good.

    For example?

    He probably means something like

    Fear of gear progression hindering retention - "Ignorant" players not wanting to start at 0 again when they can go back to Orgrimmar, even if they're tired of the game, and have their characters and familiarity.

    WvW incentive x2

    Potential for lackluster community x2

    over saturation of particle effects

    Mechanics of manual placement aoe's - "Ignorant" players not understanding the game.

    Dangers of population distribution this type of game

    Lackluster difficulty present in other non-trinity games - "Ignorant" players thinking this game will be easy because [x] was easy or "How hard can it be if you're meant to survive the damage?"

    Potential for leveling to be overly casual do to linear experience increases.

    NCsofts reputation with customer service - NCSoft is Ignorant. lol.

    Potential for cash shop microtransaction abuse

    Movement animation concerns

    Can you blame people for being ignorant on the subjective aspects of a game they haven't played?

  • FindarielFindariel Member UncommonPosts: 222

    Pros:


    • no gear grind

    • easy levelling

    • dynamic events

    • nice looking characters and world

    • gear stats independent of looks/transmutation stones

    • easy travel = more coop/casual player friendly

    • auction house! With buy orders!

    • arena style pvp

    • (experimental) all-hybrid classes

    • re-doable lower level content

    Cons:


    • more "mainstream" mmorpg races (gnomes, elves, tauren, anyone?)

    • loss of 2nd profession

    • still no housing or inns (yet)

    • endgame dungeons probably still static

    Question marks:


    • endgame content (achievements, daily reputation grind like GW1?)

    • will the hardest dungeons still allow a flexible approach?

    • gear looks - in GW1 a lot of gear still very much had the same style

    • we're all hybrids - but will one class/build have the best DPS, crowd control, group support?

    • mailboxes?
  • Mors-SubitaMors-Subita Member UncommonPosts: 517

    Originally posted by Vhaln

     

     

    B) Agree with the above poster.  Personally, I hate gear progression, but I'm skeptical of how compelling or popular WvW will be, without any incentives at all.. I don't understant what happened to making games a cohesive whole, instead of segregating them into mini-games that have no effect on one another. To me, this is yet another step in that direction, which trivializes the overall experience, and removes a lot of what keeps people playing MMOs longterm.

    Not going to post the source, go read the articles on mmorpg.com from the press beta weekend.

     

    You say "without any incentives at all", but there are rock solid incentives. Winning a 2-week WvWvW segment gives your entire server buffs, which may include 2% health regen, increased crits, increased xp or damage, etc. Holding Keeps gives guilds bonuses and benefits. They have something like the relic system in DAOC(look up info on orbs and altars). There are gear drops and experience in PvP. etc. etc. etc. etc. etc. etc.

     

    Now for my pro and con.

    Pro - I love how they have set up the multiple guild system with positive re-inforcement as an inducement to use the right guild for the right task. You join a crafting guild, and switch to them when you are crafting, gaining them influence. They spend the influence for crafting buffs for the whole guild, giving you an incentive to make them the active guild while crafting(to get the buff) which gives them the influence. Same thing for PvP, with PvP buffs and keep claiming/upgrades, and PvE with PvE buffs.

    Cons - Zoning. Its not a major annoyance cause they aren't donig sharding/instancing... But given how much they took from DAOCs playbook, I was really hoping for the seamless world.

    image

  • moosecatlolmoosecatlol Member RarePosts: 1,531

    Originally posted by Entioch

    -snip-

    Con's:

    Fear of gear progression hindering retention

    WvW incentive x2

    Potential for lackluster community x2

    over saturation of particle effects

    Mechanics of manual placement aoe's

    Dangers of population distribution this type of game

    Lackluster difficulty present in other non-trinity games

    Potential for leveling to be overly casual do to linear experience increases.

    NCsofts reputation with customer service

    Potential for cash shop microtransaction abuse

    Movement animation concerns

     


     


     


     


     


     


     


     


     


     


     


     


     


     


     


     


     


     


     


     


     


     


     


     


     

    In Red: Things I believe to be absolutely bollocks

    How is having the freedom to control your AoE placement a bad thing? If you think it will slow you down, you need to get better at video games.

    Story mode is crapping on people, I think that speaks for itself.

    There isn't a single reported incident of cash shop abuse in Guild Wars. Aside from an issue which I'll get to on the blue list.( I'm actually pulling this out of my ass, I'm sure there might have been some isolated incidents)

    I would wager that the movement system is more fluid than Vindictus.

     

    In Blue: Blue representing personal experience and thus not entirely true of all cases.

    In my personal experience, I've found that the Guild Wars community is better than the City of Heroes community, and the greater City of Heroes community are generally some of the most genuinely decent people in the world. Doesn't mean I like them, mainly because they wear horse blinders when it comes to the game itself.

    When I wanted to purchase something from cash shop, the credit card I used to purchase the game, and other ncsoft games was denied, only for use on the Guild Wars cash shop. Fortunately I was able to get ahold of customer service and it was resolved the next day. If an issue gets solved in a 24 hour period, that's good by me, especially when you can compare it to the greater evils out there.

  • DeathofsageDeathofsage Member UncommonPosts: 1,102

    Originally posted by BadSpock

     

    Can you blame people for being ignorant on the subjective aspects of a game they haven't played?

    The trouble is the diehard, blind fanboyism that runs rampant around these forums, and the obsessed trolls. I need to update the text below my SN to include TERA but I, like most players, know exactly what I am and at least say it.

    When [you] troll a game, you grin smugly to yourself when the game slowly, or quickly collapses after launch as the playerbase starts to see what you saw, but it happens again and again.

    Spec'ing properly is a gateway drug.
    12 Million People have been meter spammed in heroics.

  • DeaconXDeaconX Member UncommonPosts: 3,062

    Originally posted by moosecatlol

    I love Large scale PvP.

    I hate Gear 2 Win games.

    Ditto.  ArenaNet seems to be on the right track.

     

    Pros: Happy with pretty much everything I've seen so far :)

    Cons: Fans of 'standard mmo's' whining about GW2 not being enough like their medicore (imo) games.

     

    I'll do a longer list later - not much time now :)

    image

    Why do I write, create, fantasize, dream and daydream about other worlds? Because I hate what humanity does with this one.

    BOYCOTTING EA / ORIGIN going forward.

  • Superduper69Superduper69 Member Posts: 363

    Point taken.

     

    Originally posted by Deathofsage


    The trouble is the diehard, blind fanboyism that runs rampant around these forums, and the obsessed trolls. I need to update the text below my SN to include TERA but I, like most players, know exactly what I am and at least say it.

    When [you] troll a game, you grin smugly to yourself when the game slowly, or quickly collapses after launch as the playerbase starts to see what you saw, but it happens again and again.

     

     

    Originally posted by DeaconX


    Pros: Happy with pretty much everything I've seen so far :)

    Cons: Fans of 'standard mmo's' whining about GW2 not being enough like their medicore (imo) games. 


     

     

     

  • BadSpockBadSpock Member UncommonPosts: 7,979

    Con#2 : I do wish there were more variety in skills for weapons.

    Unless I am mistaken, you get 5 skills per 2H and 3 skills per 1H and 2 skills per offhand, based on your profession (as many weapons work for multiple professions)

    But there is no variety in terms of - if you are say a Guardian using a staff, you will have the same 5 weapon skills as every other guardian using a staff.

    So I believe you are expected to swap weapons, which is more than likely the intended game design, but I personally would like to see more variety in skill available for a specific weapon set.

    Like I'd like the ability as a Warrior or something to have a skill set for Sword + Shield that is Defensive oriented and another for Sword + Shield that is Offensive oriented.

    But it is my understanding if you are a Warrior with Sword + Shield you will have the same 5 skills as every other Warrior with Sword + Shield.

    Is this correct?

  • FlawSGIFlawSGI Member UncommonPosts: 1,379

    Originally posted by BadSpock

    Con#2 : I do wish there were more variety in skills for weapons.

    Unless I am mistaken, you get 5 skills per 2H and 3 skills per 1H and 2 skills per offhand, based on your profession (as many weapons work for multiple professions)

    But there is no variety in terms of - if you are say a Guardian using a staff, you will have the same 5 weapon skills as every other guardian using a staff.

    So I believe you are expected to swap weapons, which is more than likely the intended game design, but I personally would like to see more variety in skill available for a specific weapon set.

    Like I'd like the ability as a Warrior or something to have a skill set for Sword + Shield that is Defensive oriented and another for Sword + Shield that is Offensive oriented.

    But it is my understanding if you are a Warrior with Sword + Shield you will have the same 5 skills as every other Warrior with Sword + Shield.

    Is this correct?

    This was also going to be my con, especially since they said it would take about 20 mins to unlock all skills for a particular weapon. So 20 mins into the game and I already have the same skills I'l have at 80? I knew first 5 were going to be based on weapon but I was hoping their would be a pool of skills you coulld slot for each weapon. So that is a huge con.

     

    Pro:  So many to choose but I think the way they designed the game so you can level with anyone at anytime via sidekicking is brilliant. No more setting aside alts for specific friends.

    RIP Jimmy "The Rev" Sullivan and Paul Gray.

  • DiovidiusDiovidius Member UncommonPosts: 1,026

    Originally posted by BadSpock

    Con#2 : I do wish there were more variety in skills for weapons.

    Unless I am mistaken, you get 5 skills per 2H and 3 skills per 1H and 2 skills per offhand, based on your profession (as many weapons work for multiple professions)

    But there is no variety in terms of - if you are say a Guardian using a staff, you will have the same 5 weapon skills as every other guardian using a staff.

    So I believe you are expected to swap weapons, which is more than likely the intended game design, but I personally would like to see more variety in skill available for a specific weapon set.

    Like I'd like the ability as a Warrior or something to have a skill set for Sword + Shield that is Defensive oriented and another for Sword + Shield that is Offensive oriented.

    But it is my understanding if you are a Warrior with Sword + Shield you will have the same 5 skills as every other Warrior with Sword + Shield.

    Is this correct?

    That is correct. However two Warriors that both have a sword + shield only have the same weapon skills. They can still vary in their healing, utility and elite skills. They can vary in which second weapon set they use. They can vary in which equipment with which upgrades they use. They can vary in how they use their various abilities. They also vary in traits which affect how their skills and other abilities function.

  • SykoleisaSykoleisa Member Posts: 41

    Pro: love the way skills work, and how weapons actually affect what skills you can use.

     

    Concern: Large group PvE content. not such much that I want raids per se (though I wouldn't mind seeing some 10-20 man instance content), but I'm scared for the amount of people participating in the large scale open world boss fights, like Tequatl the sunless, only kind of thing I've seen that involved things like that was RIFT and people didn't actually want to do them because you never needed to do the event so you could just wait, only reason people actually traveled outside of their capital was for crafting mats and expert/raid rift or instances.

  • VhalnVhaln Member Posts: 3,159

    Originally posted by Mors-Subita

    Originally posted by Vhaln

    B) Agree with the above poster.  Personally, I hate gear progression, but I'm skeptical of how compelling or popular WvW will be, without any incentives at all.. I don't understant what happened to making games a cohesive whole, instead of segregating them into mini-games that have no effect on one another. To me, this is yet another step in that direction, which trivializes the overall experience, and removes a lot of what keeps people playing MMOs longterm.

    Not going to post the source, go read the articles on mmorpg.com from the press beta weekend.

    You say "without any incentives at all", but there are rock solid incentives. Winning a 2-week WvWvW segment gives your entire server buffs, which may include 2% health regen, increased crits, increased xp or damage, etc. Holding Keeps gives guilds bonuses and benefits. They have something like the relic system in DAOC(look up info on orbs and altars). There are gear drops and experience in PvP. etc. etc. etc. etc. etc. etc.

     

    I did read those (little while after posting the above) but still, seems too vague for me to recant just yet.  I need more specific info, before offering whether or not I think it'll work as a popular incentive.

    When I want a single-player story, I'll play a single-player game. When I play an MMO, I want a massively multiplayer world.

  • moosecatlolmoosecatlol Member RarePosts: 1,531

    Originally posted by BadSpock

    Con#2 : I do wish there were more variety in skills for weapons.

    Unless I am mistaken, you get 5 skills per 2H and 3 skills per 1H and 2 skills per offhand, based on your profession (as many weapons work for multiple professions)

    But there is no variety in terms of - if you are say a Guardian using a staff, you will have the same 5 weapon skills as every other guardian using a staff.

    So I believe you are expected to swap weapons, which is more than likely the intended game design, but I personally would like to see more variety in skill available for a specific weapon set.

    Like I'd like the ability as a Warrior or something to have a skill set for Sword + Shield that is Defensive oriented and another for Sword + Shield that is Offensive oriented.

    But it is my understanding if you are a Warrior with Sword + Shield you will have the same 5 skills as every other Warrior with Sword + Shield.

    Is this correct?

    If I had to guess, I would say the reasoning behind this is to be able to see an enemy and immediately know how he can attack you, while still having some customization available on the last 5 skills.

    But I understand what you mean, not sure if they'll ever change this or not. Preferablly I would like to see more chain attacks or "1" skills, I really hate orb of wrath and wave of wrath.

  • RizelStarRizelStar Member UncommonPosts: 2,773
    I like this thread I'm on my phone so it won't let me make paragraphs. My pro is that they are focusing and I mean heavily focusing on all their features. The only one that's subjective to being half assed is the crafting. My concern is if they'll have a reduce particle effect option I haven't check but I think they have it in GW 1 which hope fully they are aware of that. I also concerned about UI customization as it won't effect me but I'm sure others. I also hope they fix scaling I notice in total biscuits video you can spot those two concerns. I pray to God these questions will be asked regardless of the topic. Because it does effect the whole game for people including wvwvw.

    I might get banned for this. - Rizel Star.

    I'm not afraid to tell trolls what they [need] to hear, even if that means for me to have an forced absence afterwards.

    P2P LOGIC = If it's P2P it means longevity, overall better game, and THE BEST SUPPORT EVER!!!!!(Which has been rinsed and repeated about a thousand times)

    Common Sense Logic = P2P logic is no better than F2P Logic.

  • VicodinTacoVicodinTaco Member UncommonPosts: 804

    Pro's:  Many, many things.  Going to be a solid game for sure.

     

    Con's: Definitley the progression model.  I miss the good old days of a game say like Asheron's Call.  Where you walk into a dungeon and think "Holy crap I'm getting stomped on."  And the byproduct was that it indeed took some skill to manage you're recources and game experiences to grab that next little piece of armor, or power up a little bit, to fight your way into that dungeon.  I'm worried that GW2 might just turn into Super Mario Brothers with swords and magic.  Leveling from 1 to 80 will be just like finishing "levels" in a platform game. 

  • frogtownfrogtown Member UncommonPosts: 59

    A.) Love, love, love dynamic events and how they encourage team work instead of competing against each other to accomplish the exact same task.

    B.) Even though they are trying to do away with the holy trinity, I still feel worried that teams will still expect me to play a certain role because some classes will be better at a certain role than others. I truly want to play the character I want to play without it affecting me getting on a team. Because my character may make a better tank for example I don't want to be forced into that role.

  • cali59cali59 Member Posts: 1,634

    Originally posted by moosecatlol

    How is having the freedom to control your AoE placement a bad thing? If you think it will slow you down, you need to get better at video games.

     The guy in that video has not only been playing the game for 4 or 5 years now, he's also one of the two people who ArenaNet chose to represent them at this convention.  I don't know if he's the best they've got, but he's probably up there.  I never said freedom to control the AoE was a bad thing, I said it looks clunky.  In the video if he's dropping it quickly or he's trying to place it right on top of himself then it's pretty much fine.  If he's trying to put it at a distance then the wobbling to the placement really stands out to me.  The most obvious example is probably right after the initial fight and he's trying to teleport up to the ledge.  Later in the video he also appears to miss once or twice because he's trying to place it too quickly.

    Here's the opposite end of the spectrum.  Not only is this a new player, he's also a clicker.  He's trying to place walls even before the combat starts and it still looks bad.  Three fights after where the video starts, he completely flubs placing the wall.  It illustrates one downside of this feature.  If the camera is at a low angle, it's a lot harder to control the distance you're putting it.

    "Gamers will no longer buy the argument that every MMO requires a subscription fee to offset server and bandwidth costs. It's not true – you know it, and they know it." -Jeff Strain, co-founder of ArenaNet, 2007

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