here is the thing most people arent realizing. What Power can you really buy in TSW.
Skills, well that would be a waste since they arnt hard to purchase with in game cred.
Armor, what armor. buy armor if you want it will only make your character more pretty.
Chakra's maybe, but since everything can be taken apart they would probubly only do it for the power words.
Decks, thats actually believable.
Weapons, i have a feeling crafting weapons is gonna become big quickly because of how they set it up. so why would you buy one. specially when its easy to make a build that the weapon cant support. are you gonna have every single buff useable ingame to choose from. I think not.
so really its less of "the cash shops wont sell power" and more of "the cash shops Cant sell power"
Power is irrelevant. Convenience is a huge issue. Making it take forever to get a new skill point unless you buy potionx from the CS, or making travel a pain in the arse unless you buy travelmaps is one type of thing you see in CS games. Instead of fun by design they make the game inconvenient by design simply to encourage CS sales. Also vanity items are hugely important to a game, and to try and downplay it is silly. Making paying subscribers look like second class citizens to create CS sales would be a sad development for a game with this much potential. Granted you may not see this happen... at release. But frankly I have seen it happen with developers I trust far more than I trust Funcom.
Um, do you know exactly the difficulty of getting skill points? Didn't think so. I'm wondering how you can make these convenience arguments when you know nothing about how difficult it is to obtain the items in the game.
Other popular games will also have vanity items. Also, you don't know exactly how non CS clothes will look. I think it's a little early to start crying wolf at this point.
here is the thing most people arent realizing. What Power can you really buy in TSW.
Skills, well that would be a waste since they arnt hard to purchase with in game cred.
Armor, what armor. buy armor if you want it will only make your character more pretty.
Chakra's maybe, but since everything can be taken apart they would probubly only do it for the power words.
Decks, thats actually believable.
Weapons, i have a feeling crafting weapons is gonna become big quickly because of how they set it up. so why would you buy one. specially when its easy to make a build that the weapon cant support. are you gonna have every single buff useable ingame to choose from. I think not.
so really its less of "the cash shops wont sell power" and more of "the cash shops Cant sell power"
Power is irrelevant. Convenience is a huge issue. Making it take forever to get a new skill point unless you buy potionx from the CS, or making travel a pain in the arse unless you buy travelmaps is one type of thing you see in CS games. Instead of fun by design they make the game inconvenient by design simply to encourage CS sales. Also vanity items are hugely important to a game, and to try and downplay it is silly. Making paying subscribers look like second class citizens to create CS sales would be a sad development for a game with this much potential. Granted you may not see this happen... at release. But frankly I have seen it happen with developers I trust far more than I trust Funcom.
Um, do you know exactly the difficulty of getting skill points? Didn't think so. I'm wondering how you can make these convenience arguments when you know nothing about how difficult it is to obtain the items in the game.
Other popular games will also have vanity items. Also, you don't know exactly how non CS clothes will look. I think it's a little early to start crying wolf at this point.
You missed his point. He isn't talking about advancing your character, he used that as an example. It doesn't matter what the subject is, The cash shop is there to make money. And not just there if you want it. The game exerience will be different for those who use it from those who don't. There will be areas of gameplay where it will be much easier with cash shop items and very frustrating without them. I have seen this company do it.
here is the thing most people arent realizing. What Power can you really buy in TSW.
Skills, well that would be a waste since they arnt hard to purchase with in game cred.
Armor, what armor. buy armor if you want it will only make your character more pretty.
Chakra's maybe, but since everything can be taken apart they would probubly only do it for the power words.
Decks, thats actually believable.
Weapons, i have a feeling crafting weapons is gonna become big quickly because of how they set it up. so why would you buy one. specially when its easy to make a build that the weapon cant support. are you gonna have every single buff useable ingame to choose from. I think not.
so really its less of "the cash shops wont sell power" and more of "the cash shops Cant sell power"
Power is irrelevant. Convenience is a huge issue. Making it take forever to get a new skill point unless you buy potionx from the CS, or making travel a pain in the arse unless you buy travelmaps is one type of thing you see in CS games. Instead of fun by design they make the game inconvenient by design simply to encourage CS sales. Also vanity items are hugely important to a game, and to try and downplay it is silly. Making paying subscribers look like second class citizens to create CS sales would be a sad development for a game with this much potential. Granted you may not see this happen... at release. But frankly I have seen it happen with developers I trust far more than I trust Funcom.
Um, do you know exactly the difficulty of getting skill points? Didn't think so. I'm wondering how you can make these convenience arguments when you know nothing about how difficult it is to obtain the items in the game.
Other popular games will also have vanity items. Also, you don't know exactly how non CS clothes will look. I think it's a little early to start crying wolf at this point.
You missed his point. He isn't talking about advancing your character, he used that as an example. It doesn't matter what the subject is, The cash shop is there to make money. And not just there if you want it. The game exerience will be different for those who use it from those who don't. There will be areas of gameplay where it will be much easier with cash shop items and very frustrating without them. I have seen this company do it.
what areas of gameplay? putting on a cool looking t-shirt?
I don't think you can compare a game... like AoC that has been converted to f2p... meaning no required sub to a game that has a required sub.
No one knows what the impact of the cash shop will be. Trying to argue that the game will be almost unplayable without it is pointless. I can't say for sure that it will be otherwise, but I highly doubt it unless they actually go f2p.
It is Funcom they have operated on one buisness model for years,Cash grab at release for how much they can get then not care about long term subs or health of the game.They did it with AO and they did it with AoC no way will I bother with TSW.
Not to mention they are liars and scam artists they got a ton of us to do the beta test for that dumb kids game they have out and promised ppl if they made lvl 15 in it in durin there time frame you got TSW beta.Guess what? In typical scam funcom fashion they didn't honor a single word they promised.That is the problem with this company full of great ideas but lie and scam more than any gaming company I ever seen.
It is Funcom they have operated on one buisness model for years,Cash grab at release for how much they can get then not care about long term subs or health of the game.They did it with AO and they did it with AoC no way will I bother with TSW.
Not to mention they are liars and scam artists they got a ton of us to do the beta test for that dumb kids game they have out and promised ppl if they made lvl 15 in it in durin there time frame you got TSW beta.Guess what? In typical scam funcom fashion they didn't honor a single word they promised.That is the problem with this company full of great ideas but lie and scam more than any gaming company I ever seen.
OK, Here is another thing. And this is one of several issues that go along with this.
When there is an issue with content in their game, they put the fix in the CS.
In Anarchy, Battle Stations (PVP Zone) don't run for all levels. There is just not enough people to generate the PVP. So how do you get your PVP gear?
This is one example. There is the lack of buffs available in game. these buffs are required to play anarchy moreso than any other game I have ever played. Your character can also not cast all the buffs you need. Initially this was to create interdependance between players. Great concept, but as the game aged, this mechanic failed. Rather than fix the game, they put buffs in the CS.
So, even if initially, the game is wonderful, as time wears on and things cahnge, FC will implement fixes in the CS, not the game. And BTW, I am not talking a long time, AO's cash shop is little more than a year old. It won't take long. It may not be a declining player base tha tis the issue in TSW, but there will be something early on. And if it's possible for FC to put the "workaround" in the CS, then that's the fix.
No, AoC still get's frequently updated. Wouldn't you think that if they didn't care about it, it would be in the state of Vanguard?
Well unlike Vanguard, AoC is kind of Funcom's only recent game. And they HAD to work on it, it was a giant money sink that nearly bankrupted the whole company.
OK, Here is another thing. And this is one of several issues that go along with this.
When there is an issue with content in their game, they put the fix in the CS.
In Anarchy, Battle Stations (PVP Zone) don't run for all levels. There is just not enough people to generate the PVP. So how do you get your PVP gear?
This is one example. There is the lack of buffs available in game. these buffs are required to play anarchy moreso than any other game I have ever played. Your character can also not cast all the buffs you need. Initially this was to create interdependance between players. Great concept, but as the game aged, this mechanic failed. Rather than fix the game, they put buffs in the CS.
So, even if initially, the game is wonderful, as time wears on and things cahnge, FC will implement fixes in the CS, not the game.
You're talking about f2p games again. Of coarse games that rely on the CS as their primary cash flow are going to encourage CS purchases.
Anyways, done here. Pointless argument, since you're pulling out made up scenarios about TSW.
If it makes you feel better, I think Funcom plans to max out everyones CC.
While I consider myself a gaming existentialist these days, I hold out hope for TSW and nothing I've read this week has yet changed my mind.
Heres what I want from a game:
- Lots of different types of things to do (eg Lotro)
- A reasonable level of graphic quality (sorry Wurm)
- A cerebral experience that will engage me enough to experience flow and leave me feeling like I learnt something, not just achieved something (not sure I've been there yet but at least in Lotro I sometime feel like I'm expanding my Tolkien knowledge)
- Fun
- Pvp that doesn't proclude those of us with 250+ ping (australia)
- A quality guild system
Tick those boxes and I'm interested.
So far so good.
I couldn't give a rats how they plan to charge, as long as I think the costs are value for money.
Playing: Darkfall New Dawn (and planning to play Fallout 76) Favourite games have included: UO, Lineage2, Darkfall, Lotro, Baldur's Gate, SSX, FF7 and yes the original Wizardry on an Apple IIe
I dont get people making the argument "you cant compare it to AOC because AOC is free now."
So what? It wasnt free before and it DID have cash ship then too. Instead of a normal store, they would give you in game items for say subscribing to the game for a year. And the items were things that were very hard to aquire through normal game means. That is effectively a cash shop. You pay money and get stuff in game = cash shop. I remember working hard to get a mount. It took some time to get and a lot of work. Shortly after the cash shop subscription mount was offered for ~100 bucks, which also gave a year sub.
The next day everyone was running around with a mount that a) looked cooler then the rest b) was faster than the rest and c) had a skill that actually helped in pvp. It was better than all the others....for cash.
Im sorry, but I see no reason to think the game being made by the same people as AOC wouldnt use the same ideas again.
I dont get people making the argument "you cant compare it to AOC because AOC is free now."
So what? It wasnt free before and it DID have cash ship then too. Instead of a normal store, they would give you in game items for say subscribing to the game for a year. And the items were things that were very hard to aquire through normal game means. That is effectively a cash shop. You pay money and get stuff in game = cash shop. I remember working hard to get a mount. It took some time to get and a lot of work. Shortly after the cash shop subscription mount was offered for ~100 bucks, which also gave a year sub.
Oh yeah. Nice idea from Funcom to rip off people. Selling things in a cash shop for $100 and also putting a free year of subscription on top. That's totally different from any other company out there that offered free things in addition to a one year subscription which you got for... around $100?
I really do get the feeling that Funcom didn't release a game in a bad state, no they sent their agents around the world to rape and murder the families of everyone who thought to buy a game called Age of Conan. At least that's the impression you get when reading many of these comments.
I dont get people making the argument "you cant compare it to AOC because AOC is free now."
So what? It wasnt free before and it DID have cash ship then too. Instead of a normal store, they would give you in game items for say subscribing to the game for a year. And the items were things that were very hard to aquire through normal game means. That is effectively a cash shop. You pay money and get stuff in game = cash shop. I remember working hard to get a mount. It took some time to get and a lot of work. Shortly after the cash shop subscription mount was offered for ~100 bucks, which also gave a year sub.
Oh yeah. Nice idea from Funcom to rip off people. Selling things in a cash shop for $100 and also putting a free year of subscription on top. That's totally different from any other company out there that offered free things in addition to a one year subscription which you got for... around $100?
I really do get the feeling that Funcom didn't release a game in a bad state, no they sent their agents around the world to rape and murder the families of everyone who thought to buy a game called Age of Conan. At least that's the impression you get when reading many of these comments.
Very few MMO launches have been as mired in controversey as AoC's. Few MMO companies have lied to their players has much as Funcom did, about what was in their game.
You can buy all PVP Armor and weapons. You can buy tokens to upgrade the neck item witch is quite powerful. you can also now buy pre packaged buffs ready to go. And in AO, buffs are powerful. Also, many of these items in the CS are not bound to you. You can turn around and trade them ingame. Which is hurting an already failing ingame economy. In fact, they have recently removed several of the known methods of farming money in game. They have cited several different reasons for removing sources of income for players, however, they have not stopped people from trading items they bought with real money.
Wrong.
The "PVP Armor" that you are refering to must be LE Armor that you buy with Victory Points? Correct? Please show me one current end-game PVP build of ANY profession that wears more than 2 - 3 pieces of LE Armor in their setup.
You know what, log in right now and duel me in Bor. You wear all LE gear and I'll wear my setup. Deal?
Even IF you find a setup with the 3 most expensive pieces (unlikely combination for any setup), you mean to tell me that you can't get the Victory Points from Level 1 - 220/30/70 to buy those pieces? Really? Not even by accident? You even get more the higher level you get.
PVP Armor is Combined AI Armor, which is NOT sold in the CS. There are social sets you can buy, but have not stats at all, they just equip in the social tab.
Tokens for the neck board. You mean to tell me that you can't get 2500 tokens leveling from 1 - 220/30/70? Really? Not even by accident? Again, the higher level you are, the more you get.
The ONLY way that you would not have any of this stuff is if you were powerleveled from level 1 - 175/0/49. What we call "Heck Noobs". Then you want to come to endgame and play with the TL6-7 practically naked and gimed because you skipped 175 levels of gameplay. Those are the people that buy Tokens and VP from the cash shop.
Shocking, powerlevelers have to buy from CSs. I hear they even buy money from gold farmers too!
But the real question, does TSW have any instancing, or is it just another wannabe pseudo singleplayer MMO?
The are using a new single server technology that will split areas dynamically into shards. So yes it will be instanced in the zones, however they stated there will be no instancing in the social hubs (the number of visible players might be dynamically reduced on the client side to keep performance stable) and the player limit will be significantly higher than in Age of Conan.
Pseudo-Singleplayer is not caused by instancing, it is created by content not giving any incentive to group and interact. So even WoW with a non-instanced non-load between zones world can be leveled from 1-85 without ever interacting with any other player. Lets see how it works out.
Im sorry, but I see no reason to think the game being made by the same people as AOC wouldnt use the same ideas again.
That is not true, the development team is completely different. The only thing they have in common is the Dreamworld engine both games are using. So saying it is made by the same people is incorrect. Yes, Funcom as a company will publish both games, and they made the wrong choices on how (and especially when) bring Conan to market, but the automatic conclusion that TSW will be unfinished and a rip-off at lauch is jsut not fair. However, yes it is absolutely possible that it will be the case, but I will give them the benefit of a doubt and at least invest in the boxsale, if it is broken then, still can rejoin a couple of month down the road if the gameplay is convincing...
I can only tell if this game is worth the money if you trailed it or play for about a month, I've played some of Funcoms games, AoC is a bit too difficult and i can't seem to get out of tortage in any of the basic classes and how there is a lack of a good guide to help me level up my character as well. I've also tried Anarchy Online and again usually don't get so far as after i got out of the tutorial zone and do quests, it tend to get boring and i'm starting to get my ass kicked when i continue on, i've stopped playing that game quickly as i don't like the whole structure of the game. Bloodlines Champions but i stop playing that game as I no longer like the MOBA games anymore (all the games, including LoL) and lack of a progression to motivate me to go on, and the lack of quality team players (like all MOBA's, they are shit teammates in most of my rounds).
When I look at this, I see something different and something in my lane, the classless levels allow me to freeflow, but when looking at videos it seems most of the mssions require a group, and this also my dislike as i don't usually get along with alot of people and these people can be by naxious (for example, 1 troll in your group, 2 no people who don't speak english, and 1 asshole).
Comments
This is key right here.
Um, do you know exactly the difficulty of getting skill points? Didn't think so. I'm wondering how you can make these convenience arguments when you know nothing about how difficult it is to obtain the items in the game.
Other popular games will also have vanity items. Also, you don't know exactly how non CS clothes will look. I think it's a little early to start crying wolf at this point.
You missed his point. He isn't talking about advancing your character, he used that as an example. It doesn't matter what the subject is, The cash shop is there to make money. And not just there if you want it. The game exerience will be different for those who use it from those who don't. There will be areas of gameplay where it will be much easier with cash shop items and very frustrating without them. I have seen this company do it.
what areas of gameplay? putting on a cool looking t-shirt?
I've got the straight edge.
/sigh.
I am talking about FunCom and their business practices.
You are looking for specifics about TSW.
I don't think you can compare a game... like AoC that has been converted to f2p... meaning no required sub to a game that has a required sub.
No one knows what the impact of the cash shop will be. Trying to argue that the game will be almost unplayable without it is pointless. I can't say for sure that it will be otherwise, but I highly doubt it unless they actually go f2p.
It is Funcom they have operated on one buisness model for years,Cash grab at release for how much they can get then not care about long term subs or health of the game.They did it with AO and they did it with AoC no way will I bother with TSW.
Not to mention they are liars and scam artists they got a ton of us to do the beta test for that dumb kids game they have out and promised ppl if they made lvl 15 in it in durin there time frame you got TSW beta.Guess what? In typical scam funcom fashion they didn't honor a single word they promised.That is the problem with this company full of great ideas but lie and scam more than any gaming company I ever seen.
you realize the game is still in beta, right?
I've got the straight edge.
OK, Here is another thing. And this is one of several issues that go along with this.
When there is an issue with content in their game, they put the fix in the CS.
In Anarchy, Battle Stations (PVP Zone) don't run for all levels. There is just not enough people to generate the PVP. So how do you get your PVP gear?
This is one example. There is the lack of buffs available in game. these buffs are required to play anarchy moreso than any other game I have ever played. Your character can also not cast all the buffs you need. Initially this was to create interdependance between players. Great concept, but as the game aged, this mechanic failed. Rather than fix the game, they put buffs in the CS.
So, even if initially, the game is wonderful, as time wears on and things cahnge, FC will implement fixes in the CS, not the game. And BTW, I am not talking a long time, AO's cash shop is little more than a year old. It won't take long. It may not be a declining player base tha tis the issue in TSW, but there will be something early on. And if it's possible for FC to put the "workaround" in the CS, then that's the fix.
No, AoC still get's frequently updated. Wouldn't you think that if they didn't care about it, it would be in the state of Vanguard?
Well unlike Vanguard, AoC is kind of Funcom's only recent game. And they HAD to work on it, it was a giant money sink that nearly bankrupted the whole company.
or Anarchy Online?
is not even remotely recent. And, isn't bleeding subscribers/burning money the way AoC was.
You're talking about f2p games again. Of coarse games that rely on the CS as their primary cash flow are going to encourage CS purchases.
Anyways, done here. Pointless argument, since you're pulling out made up scenarios about TSW.
If it makes you feel better, I think Funcom plans to max out everyones CC.
While I consider myself a gaming existentialist these days, I hold out hope for TSW and nothing I've read this week has yet changed my mind.
Heres what I want from a game:
- Lots of different types of things to do (eg Lotro)
- A reasonable level of graphic quality (sorry Wurm)
- A cerebral experience that will engage me enough to experience flow and leave me feeling like I learnt something, not just achieved something (not sure I've been there yet but at least in Lotro I sometime feel like I'm expanding my Tolkien knowledge)
- Fun
- Pvp that doesn't proclude those of us with 250+ ping (australia)
- A quality guild system
Tick those boxes and I'm interested.
So far so good.
I couldn't give a rats how they plan to charge, as long as I think the costs are value for money.
Playing: Darkfall New Dawn (and planning to play Fallout 76)
Favourite games have included: UO, Lineage2, Darkfall, Lotro, Baldur's Gate, SSX, FF7 and yes the original Wizardry on an Apple IIe
But the real question, does TSW have any instancing, or is it just another wannabe pseudo singleplayer MMO?
I dont get people making the argument "you cant compare it to AOC because AOC is free now."
So what? It wasnt free before and it DID have cash ship then too. Instead of a normal store, they would give you in game items for say subscribing to the game for a year. And the items were things that were very hard to aquire through normal game means. That is effectively a cash shop. You pay money and get stuff in game = cash shop. I remember working hard to get a mount. It took some time to get and a lot of work. Shortly after the cash shop subscription mount was offered for ~100 bucks, which also gave a year sub.
The next day everyone was running around with a mount that a) looked cooler then the rest b) was faster than the rest and c) had a skill that actually helped in pvp. It was better than all the others....for cash.
Im sorry, but I see no reason to think the game being made by the same people as AOC wouldnt use the same ideas again.
Oh yeah. Nice idea from Funcom to rip off people. Selling things in a cash shop for $100 and also putting a free year of subscription on top. That's totally different from any other company out there that offered free things in addition to a one year subscription which you got for... around $100?
I really do get the feeling that Funcom didn't release a game in a bad state, no they sent their agents around the world to rape and murder the families of everyone who thought to buy a game called Age of Conan. At least that's the impression you get when reading many of these comments.
trust is so important and thank god you guys have convince me not to get involve with TSW, gj guys, cheers
Very few MMO launches have been as mired in controversey as AoC's. Few MMO companies have lied to their players has much as Funcom did, about what was in their game.
Wrong.
The "PVP Armor" that you are refering to must be LE Armor that you buy with Victory Points? Correct? Please show me one current end-game PVP build of ANY profession that wears more than 2 - 3 pieces of LE Armor in their setup.
You know what, log in right now and duel me in Bor. You wear all LE gear and I'll wear my setup. Deal?
Even IF you find a setup with the 3 most expensive pieces (unlikely combination for any setup), you mean to tell me that you can't get the Victory Points from Level 1 - 220/30/70 to buy those pieces? Really? Not even by accident? You even get more the higher level you get.
PVP Armor is Combined AI Armor, which is NOT sold in the CS. There are social sets you can buy, but have not stats at all, they just equip in the social tab.
Tokens for the neck board. You mean to tell me that you can't get 2500 tokens leveling from 1 - 220/30/70? Really? Not even by accident? Again, the higher level you are, the more you get.
The ONLY way that you would not have any of this stuff is if you were powerleveled from level 1 - 175/0/49. What we call "Heck Noobs". Then you want to come to endgame and play with the TL6-7 practically naked and gimed because you skipped 175 levels of gameplay. Those are the people that buy Tokens and VP from the cash shop.
Shocking, powerlevelers have to buy from CSs. I hear they even buy money from gold farmers too!
Calm down and move on.
The are using a new single server technology that will split areas dynamically into shards. So yes it will be instanced in the zones, however they stated there will be no instancing in the social hubs (the number of visible players might be dynamically reduced on the client side to keep performance stable) and the player limit will be significantly higher than in Age of Conan.
Pseudo-Singleplayer is not caused by instancing, it is created by content not giving any incentive to group and interact. So even WoW with a non-instanced non-load between zones world can be leveled from 1-85 without ever interacting with any other player. Lets see how it works out.
That is not true, the development team is completely different. The only thing they have in common is the Dreamworld engine both games are using. So saying it is made by the same people is incorrect. Yes, Funcom as a company will publish both games, and they made the wrong choices on how (and especially when) bring Conan to market, but the automatic conclusion that TSW will be unfinished and a rip-off at lauch is jsut not fair. However, yes it is absolutely possible that it will be the case, but I will give them the benefit of a doubt and at least invest in the boxsale, if it is broken then, still can rejoin a couple of month down the road if the gameplay is convincing...
I can only tell if this game is worth the money if you trailed it or play for about a month, I've played some of Funcoms games, AoC is a bit too difficult and i can't seem to get out of tortage in any of the basic classes and how there is a lack of a good guide to help me level up my character as well. I've also tried Anarchy Online and again usually don't get so far as after i got out of the tutorial zone and do quests, it tend to get boring and i'm starting to get my ass kicked when i continue on, i've stopped playing that game quickly as i don't like the whole structure of the game. Bloodlines Champions but i stop playing that game as I no longer like the MOBA games anymore (all the games, including LoL) and lack of a progression to motivate me to go on, and the lack of quality team players (like all MOBA's, they are shit teammates in most of my rounds).
When I look at this, I see something different and something in my lane, the classless levels allow me to freeflow, but when looking at videos it seems most of the mssions require a group, and this also my dislike as i don't usually get along with alot of people and these people can be by naxious (for example, 1 troll in your group, 2 no people who don't speak english, and 1 asshole).
After SWTOR hype, every gamer should be cynical and wait for comprehensive YouTube reviews.
Until then, I'm assuming it's a Scooby Doo themed WoW.