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Where is the Skillcap?
Insomniacc
Member Posts: 10
in Guild Wars 2
Where's the skillcap?
NOTE: THIS IS FOR STRUCTURED PVP AND ANET'S WISH OF GW2 BECOMING AN ESPORT
1. Keybinds
Sure, having tons of keybinds and remembering them is a tedious task,
however they contribute to the abstract term known as skillcap. Due to having more options the skillcap of a game becomes higher, simply because there's much more to chose from. Not to metnion, having lots of keybinds in itself raises the skillcap because you do of course have to remember them. Basically, less options = less skillcap. Less options makes outplaying people harder and harder.
2. Spamming
Due to 1 being spammable and 2-5 being either just special skills with cooldowns or situational skills, all we will be doing is pressing 1 until our higher dmg/special abilities come off cooldown, or until our situational skills are off cooldown. After that it's just popping utilities and elites every once in a while. Not much variety in gameplay.
3. Elites
I-WIN-BUTTON. These are gimmicks, although if not made too op I guess they will be fine.
4. No Juking
Since dazing/stunning a cast while it's being casted has no benefit over randomly stunning/dazing, juking becomes unimportant. (Not to mention juking isn't even implemented in this game)
5. No Healers
(I love this "no trinity" system so don't flame me for this) Having healers gives another dimension to competitive PvP. To kill the opposing team one has to cc/stop the healer from free casting, while without healers it's just who dpses more. However, I'll go ahead and state that this arguements is pretty invalid for two reasons: Firstly, healers still exist in GW2 wether you want it or not (Mace/Focus support Guardians, Healing Turret Engineers, etc.). Secondly, I'm way oversimplyfing the "it's just who dpses more" part of combat. This is just a thought to keep in mind.
6. Positioning
This isn't a valid arguement to make up for all the "skillcap factors" pointed above. Just because they made the Z axis more important it doesn't mean that the skillcap will raise massively. Positioning exists in every competitive game, and also is a crucial skillcap factore in basically all competitive games. Just because you have to "aim" some skills (which isn't even hard) positioning isn't made that much more important. Just because you can dodge skills positioning isn't made that much more important.
7. Conquest vs TDM
Look, I know there's some of you guys who are in love with conquest, but from what I have heard from almost every person who has done very competitive PvP in other MMOs/games, they find conquest to be a game mode that doesn't reward skill, clutch moves, and teamwork. "BUT INSOMNIACC, YOU NEED TEAMWORK TO CAP POINTS!!!" No, you don't, you just need a basic strat that dictates who goes where. That's not teamwork. Another reason why it doesn't reward skill is because of the nature of conquest. If one makes a huge mistake in a TDM you are pretty much screwed or at a pretty big disadvantage; if one makes a huge mistake in a conquest match all you lose is a capture point(1p/sec) that can be recaptured in a match that lasts 500 points. TDM is just much more competitive. Knowing when to use your elites and utility skills should be a skill to admire, however in Conquest, the one who pops his skills very often will be rewarded way too much. All in all, Conquest = more a BG than an Arena.
8. Automated tournies
The way automated tournies will work (from the info that we have been told) will reward people who no life more than people who have greater skill. The way automated tournaments should work is the following: You should need a specific ladder raiting to be able to enter the tournaments. Then you should get an ELO depending on your tournament placement compared to the skill of others. This way you won't get rewarded equally if you beat someone who is rank 100 vs someone who is top 10. Is a system like this isn't implemented getting into monthly tournaments will just be a matter of who spams more tournaments.
TLDR: The game isn't "korean" enough to be competitive.
-Needs more outplaying options
-Needs to reward skill more.
-Needs to reward clutch more.
Sidenote: Movement, animations, particle effects still need a lot of fixing
Movement: Not fluid
Animations: Some are clunky, most are fine
Particle effects: We all know this needs toning down
Comments
When you rewrite that people might actually read it and respond.
Maybe I will later, but the general ideas are there
Writing
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Everything you need to know about Elder Scrolls Online
Playing: GW2
Waiting on: TESO
Next Flop: Planetside 2
Best MMO of all time: Asheron's Call - The first company to recreate AC will be the next greatest MMO.
So you decided you have to make another account to post ?
Wait... there are ideas in that mess?
Oderint, dum metuant.
Wow.. you actually noticed something in his post, and it's useful as well.
He's a member since today and his only posts are in this thread, besides apprently he is a '31 year old Male from Trollville, AK, United States'.
Lol...nice catch. Well, I'm sure you just rained on his parade haha
1. For god's sake mmo gamers, enough with the analogies. They're unnecessary and your comparisons are terrible, dissimilar, and illogical.
2. To posters feeling the need to state how f2p really isn't f2p: Players understand the concept. You aren't privy to some secret the rest are missing. You're embarrassing yourself.
3. Yes, Cpt. Obvious, we're not industry experts. Now run along and let the big people use the forums for their purpose.
It's best to bash the right things sheesh. Particles effects needs a fexing are being looked into as said on reddit. That's about the only thing you got that's not entirely subjective or correct lol. Takecare
I might get banned for this. - Rizel Star.
I'm not afraid to tell trolls what they [need] to hear, even if that means for me to have an forced absence afterwards.
P2P LOGIC = If it's P2P it means longevity, overall better game, and THE BEST SUPPORT EVER!!!!!(Which has been rinsed and repeated about a thousand times)
Common Sense Logic = P2P logic is no better than F2P Logic.
Owned?
Eat me!
Sorry but you are wrong. Guild wars1/2 is completely about how you utilize those normalized balanced chracters as a team with great timing and teamwork.
I dont know if you have played GW1 but there was an observer mode where people could watch other teams (ladder top) and copycat their entire skills sets, items, and tactics. Even with that same conditions, good team could get flawless victories against the lower skilled team. It was all about timing, taking initiative acting as team, making corect decisions. Even some battles were turned around in 0.25 seconds when a healer's infuse(a strong heal spell that sucks up %50 health of the caster) fails. Gw2 wants to keep this aspects with those new mechanics with a real MMO and i think they will succeed at that with this new system.
I dont why people complain about 1-1-1-1-1-1-1-1-1 thingy, is it different when you go with 1-2-3-4-5-6-7-8 oin other games? That is not how you will win the battles.
Again i dont know if you have played dota but i am playing it for more than 6 years and still same heroes with those same 4 skill set offers a different match and challenge each day. Battles revolve around momentary actions and decisions. Guild Wars 2 wants to accomplish a similar gameplay for the competitive play.
Still i guess you will be convinced after launch how people can be outplayed with this system, on equal conditions, equal gears and equal skill sets.
From a quick glance of your post, i do think you raise some valid concerns/points for discussion, however so does the format of your post.
Please fix it
* Waves at Pushkina *
Big Woop, I'm sanctum, this needed to be posed I fixed it up
the reason why it was wierd was because I wrote it in Notepad
GW1 this GW1 that
GvG = much more skill based than conquest
yet GvG isn't the BEST competitive mode and GW1 isn't the best designed game
Looks like he decided to edit it out.
double post
Thats why I quote that part in red LOL
Deathmatch is only one measure of skill, and in my opinion, a terrible one. I'd much rather see something that involved a player playing intelligently while having lightning-fast reaction times. Take a game like SC2 - I suck royally at it, but man, I love watching matches. SC2 awards both intelligent play and fast reflexes in the form of macro and micro.
Deathmatch settings like arenas only reward the micro aspect of a player's skill. In order for a game to really appeal as an E-Sport (Which is what you're getting at with this post, whether or not you specifically said so) it needs to be appealing in both ways.
Then again, I'm kind of an oddball in that I hate professional FPS games and think they're incredibly boring to watch. I do like watching a good Fighter match though, but that's an entirely different setting than something like Deathmatch.
One thing you haven't touched on though is Dodge. I believe Dodging the right moves at the right time is going to be the 'clutch' aspect. Fighting against another person is going to be a mind-game of "burning dodges" until you can hit 'em with what you actually want to hit 'em with, same with Warcraft arenas and forcing cooldowns before an offensive burn. You can't dodge forever, after all. Lack of healers I think will only level the playing field. Anyone who's done PVP in almost any MMO ever knows that the team with more healers typically wins by default, and if you have ZERO healers, well, you're right fucked.
Teamwork is emphasized in battlegrounds, also, in the form of needing more than one person to capture an objective, intercepting/CCing a person who is about to interrupt your teammate's flag cap, snaring enemies who are chasing down your flag carrier, fear-bombing an EFC's entourage - there's lots to talk about here, and I think we'll see a lot of it in GW2 also. Fragging and bragging does not and has never appealed to me. Hell, I was the dude setting the explosives back in the Counter-Strike days. I was the one who bought the Diffusing Tools.
TL;DR: What it all comes down to is something like MMA vs. soccer, really. Some people really dig MMA. I think it's garbage. I'll watch a good soccer game, though. I don't think that says much at all about the skill of soccer players vs. MMA fighters.
Also, people bitching about your formatting need to chill.
Except dodging isn't hard you have valid points, but you just can't compare SC1-2 the games that argueably most skill require ever vs a MMO
TDM rewards reflexes and intelligent play in the form of strats adaptation and cluth moves
Conquest doesn't relly
comparing the skill of soccer players vs mma fighters is dumb
but :P Maradona Pele Cruyff etc just magic
Oh man, the last I saw, particle effects where TERRIBLE. I agree, they need to work on the particles. I hope they bring it down so we can tell what is going on.
Guild Wars 2's 50 minutes game play video:
http://n4g.com/news/592585/guild-wars-2-50-minutes-of-pure-gameplay
Everything We Know about GW2:
http://www.mmorpg.com/discussion2.cfm/thread/287180/page/1
to the dota arguement..... this is not a MOBA and I've played HoN to 1800 psr
LoL's Dominion = GW2's Conquest
Dominion = noobs
They're working on it. They've said so multiple times, most recently in the reddit AMA from last week.
what about some animations and most movement it doesn't feel fluid
Dodging isn't any harder than pressing a button, no, but dodging the right abilities will be difficult. It's less about dodging itself and more about knowing when and what to dodge to give yourself the upper hand in the fight. You can effectively "waste dodges" and leave yourself open to attack when your energy bar is empty. Also if you stop to heal, you're granting your enemy a chance to do the same.
Another teamwork aspect we don't really know a lot about at this point is just how effective cross-profession abilities will be. Most of them seem only slightly helpful, but there could be a few incredibly good ones hidden away somewhere.
I still don't agree that arena rewards skill any more than say, Rated Battlegrounds. I can however tell you which one I'd prefer to spectate, most definitely.
Arena DOES reward skill more than RBGs you can't argue against that
argueing against which is more fun to watch, sure you can
but with more flashy effects and maybe better spectator UI arena can become great
The only flaw of WoW Arena was balancing issues due to Devs balancing skills for pve and pvp
he's pretty pathetic now.
okay fanboy