The thread doesn't need to be closed, he's asking a valid question and deserves a valid answer and it seems he's has gotten a few. I would try to answer this but my headache is preventing big thought processes.
yeah i does, because it's been answered ad nauseum and has been turned into stickies on multiple websites.
Research isn't difficult when we have tools like google, the notes posted on this very own website, and countless hours of footage of the game.
Thief with sword n board looks interesting. Love how different GW2 is.
There will be a kind of tanking, when several players juggle a boss between them. It is very different from having a main tank with a healer but it is stilll kinda tanking.
GW1 doesn´t either have regular tanking but the other playersstill keep an eye out on their monk there and there are ways to tank a little even if it is untraditionally done there.
There wont be a single dedicated tank though, but the tougher players will all both tank and DPS.
Thief with sword n board looks interesting. Love how different GW2 is.
Instead of actual tanking it looks like classes with shields will be able to use stun, blind, knockback, snare, root, and place down defensive AoE spells to prevent an enemy from reaching ranged players or themselves. It doesn't look like it is about holding aggro as a shield bearer as much as it is being a mobility parasite.
If you try to play straight up DPS in a Guild Wars 2 dungeon, without mixing things up a little, THIS IS WHAT HAPPENS. Feast your eyes upon the horror and that is just the easiest dungeon.
But seriously, ArenaNet has built a ton of flexiblity into each and every profession, so that you can do a dungeon with anyone. As long as you and they are skilled enough. So in GW2 I'll be looking for skilled players, not tanks & healers.
I was wondering when someone would post that video. If I had gotten to the bottom of the thread without seeing it, I might have posted it myself.
Originally posted by uRabbit Hmm. Doesn't look much like tanking. *shrug* Thief with sword n board looks interesting. Love how different GW2 is.
That was actually a warrior. Thieves can't use shields, although a lot of classes can use some unexpected weapons.
Anyway, it's tanking in the sense that it's holding aggro while surviving attacks. Imagine him doing that while other players are attacking the monster from other sides or at range. There aren't any taunts, but there are still ways to hold aggro outside of damage output.
"Be who you are and say what you feel because those who mind don't matter and those who matter don't mind." -Dr. Seuss
If you try to play straight up DPS in a Guild Wars 2 dungeon, without mixing things up a little, THIS IS WHAT HAPPENS. Feast your eyes upon the horror and that is just the easiest dungeon.
But seriously, ArenaNet has built a ton of flexiblity into each and every profession, so that you can do a dungeon with anyone. As long as you and they are skilled enough. So in GW2 I'll be looking for skilled players, not tanks & healers.
in other games, it was often easier to identify the skilled players because they were tanks and healers, it was often also the easiest way to identify the ones who werent that skilled, they invariably chose to be dps, how that pans out in GW2 should be interesting.. for instance, how will players weed out the skilled from the not so skilled?
I have always been best with a DPS class. In WoW, I was great with my Hunter in PvE and deadly in PvP with my Rogue. In LOTRO, Burg (though my main was a slow Guard). And so on...
But the problem that always comes with being a DPS class, is that everyone wants to be DPS. Therefore, no one ever needs one.
Will this really not be an issue in GW2? I don't see how...
I am thinking about the Ranger or Thief. However, I could be a healer, as I was pretty gnarly with my Resto Druid in WoW (but, really, Resto was easy button).
What do you all think? Beta players?
First of its not true nobody needs DPS class. Infact they are most needed, just they are also most numerous.
As for GW2 , forget the talk that there is no trinity
When you start doing dungeons there will be in fact even bigger dependance on certain classes. Like i can see Guardian being essential in some dungeons , or elementalist...etc
First of its not true nobody needs DPS class. Infact they are most needed, just they are also most numerous.
As for GW2 , forget the talk that there is no trinity
When you start doing dungeons there will be in fact even bigger dependance on certain classes. Like i can see Guardian being essential in some dungeons , or elementalist...etc
If you try to play straight up DPS in a Guild Wars 2 dungeon, without mixing things up a little, THIS IS WHAT HAPPENS. Feast your eyes upon the horror and that is just the easiest dungeon.
But seriously, ArenaNet has built a ton of flexiblity into each and every profession, so that you can do a dungeon with anyone. As long as you and they are skilled enough. So in GW2 I'll be looking for skilled players, not tanks & healers.
in other games, it was often easier to identify the skilled players because they were tanks and healers, it was often also the easiest way to identify the ones who werent that skilled, they invariably chose to be dps, how that pans out in GW2 should be interesting.. for instance, how will players weed out the skilled from the not so skilled?
But seriously, if I'm to be doing explorable dungeons, I'll be doing it with my friends or guildmates exclusively. If I so happen to have a bout of madness and join a PUG group; I won't be afraid to leave a crap PUG or vote kick a terrible player.
Is it bad that im actually looking forward to kicking and /ignoring anybody who mentions anything near "im DPS/Support/Tank".
Or am i just being snobbish?
Not really, seeing how I'll likely do the same. I wouldn't mind someone saying that they'll take care of the AOE heals or cleanses, because that's a part of having group synergy, but those thinking in strict roles will be getting the boot. ^_^
Is it bad that im actually looking forward to kicking and /ignoring anybody who mentions anything near "im DPS/Support/Tank".
Or am i just being snobbish?
You could always just make it worse by confirming the ignorant player in their supposed role and letting them die as they attempted to tank or heal. Just an idea.
Is it bad that im actually looking forward to kicking and /ignoring anybody who mentions anything near "im DPS/Support/Tank".
Or am i just being snobbish?
Yes, it would be snobbish, because some, probably many people that buy games don't follow them so much as to know all aspects of those games. You could try explaining how it is different from what they are used to. If after you explain, they are still not getting it, I guess you could ignore them.
Is it bad that im actually looking forward to kicking and /ignoring anybody who mentions anything near "im DPS/Support/Tank".
Or am i just being snobbish?
I guess you can take that stance.
Personally i've always found enlightment (where applicable) rather than keeping people suspended by their own ignorance, a more sensible approach.
That "where aplicable" is the key issue. Like in Rift it was so easy to come across people with terrible builds, or simply didn't know how to play their class (Rogue tanks before patch). Heck, even I sucked at Chloro-healing before someone told me where I was doing it wrong. It was nice when you come across those who accept a bit of helpful direction, but there were also those that simply wouldn't listen to any advice, even though a dungeon is supposed to be a group effort.
I have always been best with a DPS class. In WoW, I was great with my Hunter in PvE and deadly in PvP with my Rogue. In LOTRO, Burg (though my main was a slow Guard). And so on...
But the problem that always comes with being a DPS class, is that everyone wants to be DPS. Therefore, no one ever needs one.
Will this really not be an issue in GW2? I don't see how...
I am thinking about the Ranger or Thief. However, I could be a healer, as I was pretty gnarly with my Resto Druid in WoW (but, really, Resto was easy button).
What do you all think? Beta players?
mmmh what if there is no healer class and what if all clases can dps? mmmh think about it for a moment...
Player skill at playing their profession is going to be more important than what profession a player plays. So, building a list of in game friends with a focus on people who have proven they can play will be the one of the most important considerations for people who intend to spend time doing dungeons and other group content.
One nice benefit for social players is the GW2 system which allows for side kicking in either direction, with XP and loot rewards based on your actual level, rather than the scaled level. This will allow people who build a bond around competant play the ability to keep playing together, even if a gap in level develops between members of that group. Also, guild members will be able to do a lot more content together, since very broad level ranges play well together and even a level 10 and a level 70 may have occasion to party up, with the level 70 still able to earn level 70 appropriate XP and loot while doing lower level content.
What about PUGs?, Well, I can see groups recruiting pugs based on a broad level range and also to fill broad roles with in the group. Rather than recruiting specific professions, they may recruit for people who are good at "playing a support role", "Good at playing control", "Good at DPS"; or even "someone who is good at juggling roles", or just plain "one more person who feels confident they really know how to play their profession".
One cool thing about the game is that even though a group may have a particular preference to fill a last slot, that preference can be abandoned for just about anyone if no one quickly answers the call. Also, everyone always get's their own individual loot from the loot table for every mob they kill as a group. There is never a reason to exclude a profession or armor class because they would be competition for the same rare loot as you or someone else in the party.
There may be some groups that are theorycrafted to the extreme, relying on a very specific blend of builds and following a very specific set of strategies and tactics. However, that is not the stuff of PUGs, so it should rarely be an issue in LFG channels.
This article is required reading if you want to begin to form a proper understanding of character roles in GW2:
Is it bad that im actually looking forward to kicking and /ignoring anybody who mentions anything near "im DPS/Support/Tank".
Or am i just being snobbish?
I guess you can take that stance.
Personally i've always found enlightment (where applicable) rather than keeping people suspended by their own ignorance, a more sensible approach.
That "where aplicable" is the key issue. Like in Rift it was so easy to come across people with terrible builds, or simply didn't know how to play their class (Rogue tanks before patch). Heck, even I sucked at Chloro-healing before someone told me where I was doing it wrong. It was nice when you come across those who accept a bit of helpful direction, but there were also those that simply wouldn't listen to any advice, even though a dungeon is supposed to be a group effort.
Those are the ones I'd kick.
I'll have to agree with you on that.
I made the error of assuming all people actually had a desire to better themselves and accept helpful advice, when that's not the case then yea...a lost cause.
This isn't directed at the OP, just MMO fans in general.
My faith in MMO gamers has been degrading slowly over the last few months the more I read about people not being able to grasp the concept that GW2 will not be the same as most other MMO games.
At first I wasn't too worried, but after the press event videos were released, I'm now scared of what's going to happen.
ArenaNet has already shown that they will change the game to cater to the lowest common demonitor (adding scouts) so what's to say they won't realize that most of the people playing their game during the beta events have no clue how to play the game, never use dodge, never use their skills when appropriate, and generally suck at playing.
I really hope that when this happens ArenaNet will not change the game to appease these people. I even predict one of the thread titles will be "Guardians suck at tanking!"
/sigh
"There is as yet insufficient data for a meaningful answer."
you dont need some1 to tank the boss .... no need healer for the tank ..... the group need to dodge boss attacks till they kill them i think it will be something like this
How did this obvious troll thread get so many responses?
Because it was a legitimate question from a person who really did want to know the answer.
Fortunately a bunch of helpful folks responded with the information he requested and he didn't get just a bunch of trolling replies, well, you know, sort of like yours I suppose.
If you don't like a thread/post in a forum, walk on by, no reason to stop in and add nothing to the discussion.
Wait.....now you have me doing it.
Regardless how much everyone assures us that this new design will solve all grouping issues (and world hunger to boot) I'm going to remain skeptical until I get a chance to see it in action in a live server.
I am hopeful that ANET has found a better way to do business, as I almost never group these days, not so much because its hard to find one, but more because of the way the mechanics play out in modern MMO's.
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
Comments
Thief with sword n board looks interesting. Love how different GW2 is.
yeah i does, because it's been answered ad nauseum and has been turned into stickies on multiple websites.
Research isn't difficult when we have tools like google, the notes posted on this very own website, and countless hours of footage of the game.
There will be a kind of tanking, when several players juggle a boss between them. It is very different from having a main tank with a healer but it is stilll kinda tanking.
GW1 doesn´t either have regular tanking but the other playersstill keep an eye out on their monk there and there are ways to tank a little even if it is untraditionally done there.
There wont be a single dedicated tank though, but the tougher players will all both tank and DPS.
Instead of actual tanking it looks like classes with shields will be able to use stun, blind, knockback, snare, root, and place down defensive AoE spells to prevent an enemy from reaching ranged players or themselves. It doesn't look like it is about holding aggro as a shield bearer as much as it is being a mobility parasite.
If your restrictive time management allows, read this blog post: http://www.guildwars2.com/en/the-game/combat/healing-death/
It has all the information you need to understand why your concerns are unfounded.
If you try to play straight up DPS in a Guild Wars 2 dungeon, without mixing things up a little, THIS IS WHAT HAPPENS. Feast your eyes upon the horror and that is just the easiest dungeon.
But seriously, ArenaNet has built a ton of flexiblity into each and every profession, so that you can do a dungeon with anyone. As long as you and they are skilled enough. So in GW2 I'll be looking for skilled players, not tanks & healers.
I was wondering when someone would post that video. If I had gotten to the bottom of the thread without seeing it, I might have posted it myself.
That was actually a warrior. Thieves can't use shields, although a lot of classes can use some unexpected weapons.
Anyway, it's tanking in the sense that it's holding aggro while surviving attacks. Imagine him doing that while other players are attacking the monster from other sides or at range. There aren't any taunts, but there are still ways to hold aggro outside of damage output.
"Be who you are and say what you feel because those who mind don't matter and those who matter don't mind." -Dr. Seuss
in other games, it was often easier to identify the skilled players because they were tanks and healers, it was often also the easiest way to identify the ones who werent that skilled, they invariably chose to be dps, how that pans out in GW2 should be interesting.. for instance, how will players weed out the skilled from the not so skilled?
First of its not true nobody needs DPS class. Infact they are most needed, just they are also most numerous.
As for GW2 , forget the talk that there is no trinity
When you start doing dungeons there will be in fact even bigger dependance on certain classes. Like i can see Guardian being essential in some dungeons , or elementalist...etc
Anyone who doesn't learn how to play all aspects of their class will get steam rolled in the explorable dungeons.
Been calling a psychic hotline?
Easy. It will be the ones who end up naked.
But seriously, if I'm to be doing explorable dungeons, I'll be doing it with my friends or guildmates exclusively. If I so happen to have a bout of madness and join a PUG group; I won't be afraid to leave a crap PUG or vote kick a terrible player.
Is it bad that im actually looking forward to kicking and /ignoring anybody who mentions anything near "im DPS/Support/Tank".
Or am i just being snobbish?
Not really, seeing how I'll likely do the same. I wouldn't mind someone saying that they'll take care of the AOE heals or cleanses, because that's a part of having group synergy, but those thinking in strict roles will be getting the boot. ^_^
You could always just make it worse by confirming the ignorant player in their supposed role and letting them die as they attempted to tank or heal. Just an idea.
I guess you can take that stance.
Personally i've always found enlightment (where applicable) rather than keeping people suspended by their own ignorance, a more sensible approach.
* Waves at Pushkina *
Yes, it would be snobbish, because some, probably many people that buy games don't follow them so much as to know all aspects of those games. You could try explaining how it is different from what they are used to. If after you explain, they are still not getting it, I guess you could ignore them.
That "where aplicable" is the key issue. Like in Rift it was so easy to come across people with terrible builds, or simply didn't know how to play their class (Rogue tanks before patch). Heck, even I sucked at Chloro-healing before someone told me where I was doing it wrong. It was nice when you come across those who accept a bit of helpful direction, but there were also those that simply wouldn't listen to any advice, even though a dungeon is supposed to be a group effort.
Those are the ones I'd kick.
mmmh what if there is no healer class and what if all clases can dps? mmmh think about it for a moment...
Player skill at playing their profession is going to be more important than what profession a player plays. So, building a list of in game friends with a focus on people who have proven they can play will be the one of the most important considerations for people who intend to spend time doing dungeons and other group content.
One nice benefit for social players is the GW2 system which allows for side kicking in either direction, with XP and loot rewards based on your actual level, rather than the scaled level. This will allow people who build a bond around competant play the ability to keep playing together, even if a gap in level develops between members of that group. Also, guild members will be able to do a lot more content together, since very broad level ranges play well together and even a level 10 and a level 70 may have occasion to party up, with the level 70 still able to earn level 70 appropriate XP and loot while doing lower level content.
What about PUGs?, Well, I can see groups recruiting pugs based on a broad level range and also to fill broad roles with in the group. Rather than recruiting specific professions, they may recruit for people who are good at "playing a support role", "Good at playing control", "Good at DPS"; or even "someone who is good at juggling roles", or just plain "one more person who feels confident they really know how to play their profession".
One cool thing about the game is that even though a group may have a particular preference to fill a last slot, that preference can be abandoned for just about anyone if no one quickly answers the call. Also, everyone always get's their own individual loot from the loot table for every mob they kill as a group. There is never a reason to exclude a profession or armor class because they would be competition for the same rare loot as you or someone else in the party.
There may be some groups that are theorycrafted to the extreme, relying on a very specific blend of builds and following a very specific set of strategies and tactics. However, that is not the stuff of PUGs, so it should rarely be an issue in LFG channels.
This article is required reading if you want to begin to form a proper understanding of character roles in GW2:
http://www.guildwars2.com/en/the-game/combat/healing-death/
Want to know more about GW2 and why there is so much buzz? Start here: Guild Wars 2 Mass Info for the Uninitiated
I'll have to agree with you on that.
I made the error of assuming all people actually had a desire to better themselves and accept helpful advice, when that's not the case then yea...a lost cause.
* Waves at Pushkina *
This isn't directed at the OP, just MMO fans in general.
My faith in MMO gamers has been degrading slowly over the last few months the more I read about people not being able to grasp the concept that GW2 will not be the same as most other MMO games.
At first I wasn't too worried, but after the press event videos were released, I'm now scared of what's going to happen.
ArenaNet has already shown that they will change the game to cater to the lowest common demonitor (adding scouts) so what's to say they won't realize that most of the people playing their game during the beta events have no clue how to play the game, never use dodge, never use their skills when appropriate, and generally suck at playing.
I really hope that when this happens ArenaNet will not change the game to appease these people. I even predict one of the thread titles will be "Guardians suck at tanking!"
/sigh
"There is as yet insufficient data for a meaningful answer."
How did this obvious troll thread get so many responses?
you dont need some1 to tank the boss .... no need healer for the tank ..... the group need to dodge boss attacks till they kill them i think it will be something like this
Because it was a legitimate question from a person who really did want to know the answer.
Fortunately a bunch of helpful folks responded with the information he requested and he didn't get just a bunch of trolling replies, well, you know, sort of like yours I suppose.
If you don't like a thread/post in a forum, walk on by, no reason to stop in and add nothing to the discussion.
Wait.....now you have me doing it.
Regardless how much everyone assures us that this new design will solve all grouping issues (and world hunger to boot) I'm going to remain skeptical until I get a chance to see it in action in a live server.
I am hopeful that ANET has found a better way to do business, as I almost never group these days, not so much because its hard to find one, but more because of the way the mechanics play out in modern MMO's.
"True friends stab you in the front." | Oscar Wilde
"I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon