The question that I posed wasn't necessarily seeking a personal answer, but more of speculation of what to expect in terms of other people. Let me put it this way. Assume that the whole game was like the structured PvP; you make a characters with everything unlocked, and everything you gain at that point is purely cosmetic. If that was the case, how many fewer people do you think would play the game? I'm just speculating, but I believe it will be the people that wouldn't play, if that were the case, who will be complaing about lack of content once the cap is achieved.
Yes, there is plenty to do, but much of it only yields cosmetic rewards, or no reward at all (other than fun, of course). This may not take to people that are seeking a lot of linear character progression (i.e. levels or gear). I'm not saying I'm one of these peolpe, but there are a lot of them out there. How loud will their voice be after a month or two after release? I made the TOR reference, becuase there was widespread complaining about lack of content, even though many of the things brought up in this thread are also availaible in TOR (like achievements, dungeons and such). Will GW2 suffer a similar fate?
I'd look to the current most popular online game, League of Legends, for your answer. LoL doesn't rely on continual progression of any sort to keep its quite impressive playerbase playing. Each match is simply a ton of fun in its own right. Players have played for years and can't get enough. Factor in the new champions they release every few weeks and new skins (never underestimate how important appearance to a great many players--skins comprise virtually 90% of Riot's rather significant income), and players remain interested. Rather than a ton of long term progression goals, LoL manages to make the progression within each game quite compelling and fun each time. It always somehow feels rewarding when your champion learns his next ability, or improves its power, or acquires enough gear to purchase the next item of his choice. There's a very strong meta progression game that keeps players interactive.
Anet hinted at the potential of a MOBA style battleground (blanking on GW2's name for a BG atm) sometime in the future. If it's fun enough, and if they truly do manage to become an esport, people will continue to play.
The question that I posed wasn't necessarily seeking a personal answer, but more of speculation of what to expect in terms of other people. Let me put it this way. Assume that the whole game was like the structured PvP; you make a characters with everything unlocked, and everything you gain at that point is purely cosmetic. If that was the case, how many fewer people do you think would play the game? I'm just speculating, but I believe it will be the people that wouldn't play, if that were the case, who will be complaing about lack of content once the cap is achieved.
Yes, there is plenty to do, but much of it only yields cosmetic rewards, or no reward at all (other than fun, of course). This may not take to people that are seeking a lot of linear character progression (i.e. levels or gear). I'm not saying I'm one of these peolpe, but there are a lot of them out there. How loud will their voice be after a month or two after release? I made the TOR reference, becuase there was widespread complaining about lack of content, even though many of the things brought up in this thread are also availaible in TOR (like achievements, dungeons and such). Will GW2 suffer a similar fate?
I'd look to the current most popular online game, League of Legends, for your answer. LoL doesn't rely on continual progression of any sort to keep its quite impressive playerbase playing. Each match is simply a ton of fun in its own right. Players have played for years and can't get enough. Factor in the new champions they release every few weeks and new skins (never underestimate how important appearance to a great many players--skins comprise virtually 90% of Riot's rather significant income), and players remain interested. Rather than a ton of long term progression goals, LoL manages to make the progression within each game quite compelling and fun each time. It always somehow feels rewarding when your champion learns his next ability, or improves its power, or acquires enough gear to purchase the next item of his choice. There's a very strong meta progression game that keeps players interactive.
Anet hinted at the potential of a MOBA style battleground (blanking on GW2's name for a BG atm) sometime in the future. If it's fun enough, and if they truly do manage to become an esport, people will continue to play.
I agree that Guild Wars 2 has the potential for that kind of lasting appeal, but still, it's a different kind of game than League of Legends. With LoL, people are pretty much expecting successive PvP battles, but GW2 is a full-blown MMO. There are different sets of expectations associalted with them. People coming over from most other MMOs are going to be wondering what comes next after the level cap is reached and the top gear is acquired (which won't really take all that long). I suspect that once most people hit 80, they're not going to be interested in going to low-leveled areas for content. Obviously it scales, but once you're max level with gear, it's not going to benefit you in any tangible way. That, for many people, is going to be a point of contention.
Keep in mind that these aren't really personal issues of mine. I was just thinking that they may be for others, then I began to wonder about the amount of people that will complain about it. I'm actually anticipating a backlash from this. Mainly, I think, becuase the game is so different. People have been used to the same thing now for a while. Most of what keeps people playing MMOs is a carrot on a stick, and when you take that carrot off if the stick, I suspect that people will get confused and angry.
The question that I posed wasn't necessarily seeking a personal answer, but more of speculation of what to expect in terms of other people. Let me put it this way. Assume that the whole game was like the structured PvP; you make a characters with everything unlocked, and everything you gain at that point is purely cosmetic. If that was the case, how many fewer people do you think would play the game? I'm just speculating, but I believe it will be the people that wouldn't play, if that were the case, who will be complaing about lack of content once the cap is achieved.
Yes, there is plenty to do, but much of it only yields cosmetic rewards, or no reward at all (other than fun, of course). This may not take to people that are seeking a lot of linear character progression (i.e. levels or gear). I'm not saying I'm one of these peolpe, but there are a lot of them out there. How loud will their voice be after a month or two after release? I made the TOR reference, becuase there was widespread complaining about lack of content, even though many of the things brought up in this thread are also availaible in TOR (like achievements, dungeons and such). Will GW2 suffer a similar fate?
I'd look to the current most popular online game, League of Legends, for your answer. LoL doesn't rely on continual progression of any sort to keep its quite impressive playerbase playing. Each match is simply a ton of fun in its own right. Players have played for years and can't get enough. Factor in the new champions they release every few weeks and new skins (never underestimate how important appearance to a great many players--skins comprise virtually 90% of Riot's rather significant income), and players remain interested. Rather than a ton of long term progression goals, LoL manages to make the progression within each game quite compelling and fun each time. It always somehow feels rewarding when your champion learns his next ability, or improves its power, or acquires enough gear to purchase the next item of his choice. There's a very strong meta progression game that keeps players interactive.
Anet hinted at the potential of a MOBA style battleground (blanking on GW2's name for a BG atm) sometime in the future. If it's fun enough, and if they truly do manage to become an esport, people will continue to play.
I agree that Guild Wars 2 has the potential for that kind of lasting appeal, but still, it's a different kind of game than League of Legends. With LoL, people are pretty much expecting successive PvP battles, but GW2 is a full-blown MMO. There are different sets of expectations associalted with them. People coming over from most other MMOs are going to be wondering what comes next after the level cap is reached and the top gear is acquired (which won't really take all that long). I suspect that once most people hit 80, they're not going to be interested in going to low-leveled areas for content. Obviously it scales, but once you're max level with gear, it's not going to benefit you in any tangible way. That, for many people, is going to be a point of contention.
Keep in mind that these aren't really personal issues of mine. I was just thinking that they may be for others, then I began to wonder about the amount of people that will complain about it. I'm actually anticipating a backlash from this. Mainly, I think, becuase the game is so different. People have been used to the same thing now for a while. Most of what keeps people playing MMOs is a carrot on a stick, and when you take that carrot off if the stick, I suspect that people will get confused and angry.
If thier intent was to constantly progress to the next set of gear, then they obvioulsy didnt read anything about the game, so its all thier fault when they find out they are in the wrong game, nobody to blame but themselves,
Getting confused is a part of life, getting angry is an emotional response which usually doesnt help much.
How is all this the games fault or the devs fault?
Think of Guild Wars 2 like... League of Legends. Or DotA for my oldschool friends.
No real end game, just playing because it's enjoyable.
The only reason MMOs are a treadmill is because outside of the social interaction, there really isn't much left.
MMOs played: WoW, Star Wars Galaxies, Star Wars: The Old Republic, Guild Wars, Planetside, Global Agenda, Star Trek Online, RIFT, Everquest 2, Age of Conan, Warhammer Online, EvE online, APB Best MMO Companies: Trion Worlds, ArenaNet, CCP Worst MMO Companies: Electronic Arts
What do people really expect for after-80? I mean please tell some solid features except the gear grinding endless raid cycle. Gw2 crossed this out because it doesnt have a sub fe to keep milking players.
Well, what i expect from end game, and what almost all of my friends expected from the older MMOs is PvP. Both structured and open world, since you can do both from the begining GW2 is an end game bliss from after the tutorial for me.
Some people wants an alternate advancement after 80, that may be nice but still it will be a temporary joy. I believe the main focus for late game is always should be PvP, because its content is generated really in real time, nd it doesnt get boring.
Also there are 8 unique classes which i can cobine with nice races that will give an absurd time to play around with PVE.
-------
Players should not rush/skip/nextnext the content from 1-79 just to get 80 and get kickin'. Try to explore it, enjoy it from level 1.
The question that I posed wasn't necessarily seeking a personal answer, but more of speculation of what to expect in terms of other people. Let me put it this way. Assume that the whole game was like the structured PvP; you make a characters with everything unlocked, and everything you gain at that point is purely cosmetic. If that was the case, how many fewer people do you think would play the game? I'm just speculating, but I believe it will be the people that wouldn't play, if that were the case, who will be complaing about lack of content once the cap is achieved. Yes, there is plenty to do, but much of it only yields cosmetic rewards, or no reward at all (other than fun, of course). This may not take to people that are seeking a lot of linear character progression (i.e. levels or gear). I'm not saying I'm one of these peolpe, but there are a lot of them out there. How loud will their voice be after a month or two after release? I made the TOR reference, becuase there was widespread complaining about lack of content, even though many of the things brought up in this thread are also availaible in TOR (like achievements, dungeons and such). Will GW2 suffer a similar fate?
I'd look to the current most popular online game, League of Legends, for your answer. LoL doesn't rely on continual progression of any sort to keep its quite impressive playerbase playing. Each match is simply a ton of fun in its own right. Players have played for years and can't get enough. Factor in the new champions they release every few weeks and new skins (never underestimate how important appearance to a great many players--skins comprise virtually 90% of Riot's rather significant income), and players remain interested. Rather than a ton of long term progression goals, LoL manages to make the progression within each game quite compelling and fun each time. It always somehow feels rewarding when your champion learns his next ability, or improves its power, or acquires enough gear to purchase the next item of his choice. There's a very strong meta progression game that keeps players interactive.
Anet hinted at the potential of a MOBA style battleground (blanking on GW2's name for a BG atm) sometime in the future. If it's fun enough, and if they truly do manage to become an esport, people will continue to play.
I agree that Guild Wars 2 has the potential for that kind of lasting appeal, but still, it's a different kind of game than League of Legends. With LoL, people are pretty much expecting successive PvP battles, but GW2 is a full-blown MMO. There are different sets of expectations associalted with them. People coming over from most other MMOs are going to be wondering what comes next after the level cap is reached and the top gear is acquired (which won't really take all that long). I suspect that once most people hit 80, they're not going to be interested in going to low-leveled areas for content. Obviously it scales, but once you're max level with gear, it's not going to benefit you in any tangible way. That, for many people, is going to be a point of contention.
Keep in mind that these aren't really personal issues of mine. I was just thinking that they may be for others, then I began to wonder about the amount of people that will complain about it. I'm actually anticipating a backlash from this. Mainly, I think, becuase the game is so different. People have been used to the same thing now for a while. Most of what keeps people playing MMOs is a carrot on a stick, and when you take that carrot off if the stick, I suspect that people will get confused and angry.
Transmution stones contradicted a lot of what you said, that and the loot you get in lower level scales as well, so never know what goods you may get. In order to think objectively it's best to make sure you know in fine detail about each thing in the game. Last but not least you don't need a carrot on a stick, because if you can eat your own carrot, grow carrots for yourself to eat, and have them grow by nature you won't need to chase fun as it can come to you, be made by you, and be achievable. You'd also have a point if ANET is trying to make the next WoW like almost every other dev is trying to do, yet they are not.
I might get banned for this. - Rizel Star.
I'm not afraid to tell trolls what they [need] to hear, even if that means for me to have an forced absence afterwards.
P2P LOGIC = If it's P2P it means longevity, overall better game, and THE BEST SUPPORT EVER!!!!!(Which has been rinsed and repeated about a thousand times)
Common Sense Logic = P2P logic is no better than F2P Logic.
I agree that Guild Wars 2 has the potential for that kind of lasting appeal, but still, it's a different kind of game than League of Legends. With LoL, people are pretty much expecting successive PvP battles, but GW2 is a full-blown MMO. There are different sets of expectations associalted with them. People coming over from most other MMOs are going to be wondering what comes next after the level cap is reached and the top gear is acquired (which won't really take all that long). I suspect that once most people hit 80, they're not going to be interested in going to low-leveled areas for content. Obviously it scales, but once you're max level with gear, it's not going to benefit you in any tangible way. That, for many people, is going to be a point of contention.
Keep in mind that these aren't really personal issues of mine. I was just thinking that they may be for others, then I began to wonder about the amount of people that will complain about it. I'm actually anticipating a backlash from this. Mainly, I think, becuase the game is so different. People have been used to the same thing now for a while. Most of what keeps people playing MMOs is a carrot on a stick, and when you take that carrot off if the stick, I suspect that people will get confused and angry.
If thier intent was to constantly progress to the next set of gear, then they obvioulsy didnt read anything about the game, so its all thier fault when they find out they are in the wrong game, nobody to blame but themselves,
Getting confused is a part of life, getting angry is an emotional response which usually doesnt help much.
How is all this the games fault or the devs fault?
I'm not not really blaming anyone. I'm simply making a prediction. I suspect that there will be similar situation as TOR, becuase of the reasons that I mentioned. I could totally be wrong. I was just speculating, and asking for some input of others.
I agree that Guild Wars 2 has the potential for that kind of lasting appeal, but still, it's a different kind of game than League of Legends. With LoL, people are pretty much expecting successive PvP battles, but GW2 is a full-blown MMO. There are different sets of expectations associalted with them. People coming over from most other MMOs are going to be wondering what comes next after the level cap is reached and the top gear is acquired (which won't really take all that long). I suspect that once most people hit 80, they're not going to be interested in going to low-leveled areas for content. Obviously it scales, but once you're max level with gear, it's not going to benefit you in any tangible way. That, for many people, is going to be a point of contention.
Keep in mind that these aren't really personal issues of mine. I was just thinking that they may be for others, then I began to wonder about the amount of people that will complain about it. I'm actually anticipating a backlash from this. Mainly, I think, becuase the game is so different. People have been used to the same thing now for a while. Most of what keeps people playing MMOs is a carrot on a stick, and when you take that carrot off if the stick, I suspect that people will get confused and angry.
Transmution stones contradicted a lot of what you said, that and the loot you get in lower level scales as well, so never know what goods you may get. In order to think objectively it's best to make sure you know in fine detail about each thing in the game. Last but not least you don't need a carrot on a stick, because if you can eat your own carrot, grow carrots for yourself to eat, and have them grow by nature you won't need to chase fun as it can come to you, be made by you, and be achievable. You'd also have a point if ANET is trying to make the next WoW like almost every other dev is trying to do, yet they are not.
I'm aware of the transmutation stones, and that gear scales. They've mentioned that there is a good chance that you will have top tiered gear shortly after reaching level 80. Most of the gear acquired at that point is side-stepping, or for aesthetics. People are pretty used to linear gear progression. Once someone gets the best stats, they aren't concerned with making lateral gear swaps. I guarantee that is the mentality of a lot of people that are going to be playing.
I'm not entirely sure what you mean by "think objectively" in this context. I mentioned that I'm just speculating; it's simply my opinion based on the reasoning that I've given. Also, there is still a lot that no one (besides the devs) knows about the game. I clearly stated that it is different in my previous post, and explained that these aren't personal issues of mine, but rather just considering the reaction of others that are used to a different breed of MMO. Obviously, there are going to be naysayers (there always are), but I'm talking about large group in consensus about an issue.
Comments
I'd look to the current most popular online game, League of Legends, for your answer. LoL doesn't rely on continual progression of any sort to keep its quite impressive playerbase playing. Each match is simply a ton of fun in its own right. Players have played for years and can't get enough. Factor in the new champions they release every few weeks and new skins (never underestimate how important appearance to a great many players--skins comprise virtually 90% of Riot's rather significant income), and players remain interested. Rather than a ton of long term progression goals, LoL manages to make the progression within each game quite compelling and fun each time. It always somehow feels rewarding when your champion learns his next ability, or improves its power, or acquires enough gear to purchase the next item of his choice. There's a very strong meta progression game that keeps players interactive.
Anet hinted at the potential of a MOBA style battleground (blanking on GW2's name for a BG atm) sometime in the future. If it's fun enough, and if they truly do manage to become an esport, people will continue to play.
in the beta weekend the devs defended a keep for 10 straight hours.
I have been looking for a DAOC'ish RvR game for 10 years, I think we are getting close with this one
I agree that Guild Wars 2 has the potential for that kind of lasting appeal, but still, it's a different kind of game than League of Legends. With LoL, people are pretty much expecting successive PvP battles, but GW2 is a full-blown MMO. There are different sets of expectations associalted with them. People coming over from most other MMOs are going to be wondering what comes next after the level cap is reached and the top gear is acquired (which won't really take all that long). I suspect that once most people hit 80, they're not going to be interested in going to low-leveled areas for content. Obviously it scales, but once you're max level with gear, it's not going to benefit you in any tangible way. That, for many people, is going to be a point of contention.
Keep in mind that these aren't really personal issues of mine. I was just thinking that they may be for others, then I began to wonder about the amount of people that will complain about it. I'm actually anticipating a backlash from this. Mainly, I think, becuase the game is so different. People have been used to the same thing now for a while. Most of what keeps people playing MMOs is a carrot on a stick, and when you take that carrot off if the stick, I suspect that people will get confused and angry.
If thier intent was to constantly progress to the next set of gear, then they obvioulsy didnt read anything about the game, so its all thier fault when they find out they are in the wrong game, nobody to blame but themselves,
Getting confused is a part of life, getting angry is an emotional response which usually doesnt help much.
How is all this the games fault or the devs fault?
Think of Guild Wars 2 like... League of Legends. Or DotA for my oldschool friends.
No real end game, just playing because it's enjoyable.
The only reason MMOs are a treadmill is because outside of the social interaction, there really isn't much left.
MMOs played: WoW, Star Wars Galaxies, Star Wars: The Old Republic, Guild Wars, Planetside, Global Agenda, Star Trek Online, RIFT, Everquest 2, Age of Conan, Warhammer Online, EvE online, APB
Best MMO Companies: Trion Worlds, ArenaNet, CCP
Worst MMO Companies: Electronic Arts
What do people really expect for after-80? I mean please tell some solid features except the gear grinding endless raid cycle. Gw2 crossed this out because it doesnt have a sub fe to keep milking players.
Well, what i expect from end game, and what almost all of my friends expected from the older MMOs is PvP. Both structured and open world, since you can do both from the begining GW2 is an end game bliss from after the tutorial for me.
Some people wants an alternate advancement after 80, that may be nice but still it will be a temporary joy. I believe the main focus for late game is always should be PvP, because its content is generated really in real time, nd it doesnt get boring.
Also there are 8 unique classes which i can cobine with nice races that will give an absurd time to play around with PVE.
-------
Players should not rush/skip/nextnext the content from 1-79 just to get 80 and get kickin'. Try to explore it, enjoy it from level 1.
I'd look to the current most popular online game, League of Legends, for your answer. LoL doesn't rely on continual progression of any sort to keep its quite impressive playerbase playing. Each match is simply a ton of fun in its own right. Players have played for years and can't get enough. Factor in the new champions they release every few weeks and new skins (never underestimate how important appearance to a great many players--skins comprise virtually 90% of Riot's rather significant income), and players remain interested. Rather than a ton of long term progression goals, LoL manages to make the progression within each game quite compelling and fun each time. It always somehow feels rewarding when your champion learns his next ability, or improves its power, or acquires enough gear to purchase the next item of his choice. There's a very strong meta progression game that keeps players interactive.
Anet hinted at the potential of a MOBA style battleground (blanking on GW2's name for a BG atm) sometime in the future. If it's fun enough, and if they truly do manage to become an esport, people will continue to play.
I agree that Guild Wars 2 has the potential for that kind of lasting appeal, but still, it's a different kind of game than League of Legends. With LoL, people are pretty much expecting successive PvP battles, but GW2 is a full-blown MMO. There are different sets of expectations associalted with them. People coming over from most other MMOs are going to be wondering what comes next after the level cap is reached and the top gear is acquired (which won't really take all that long). I suspect that once most people hit 80, they're not going to be interested in going to low-leveled areas for content. Obviously it scales, but once you're max level with gear, it's not going to benefit you in any tangible way. That, for many people, is going to be a point of contention.
Keep in mind that these aren't really personal issues of mine. I was just thinking that they may be for others, then I began to wonder about the amount of people that will complain about it. I'm actually anticipating a backlash from this. Mainly, I think, becuase the game is so different. People have been used to the same thing now for a while. Most of what keeps people playing MMOs is a carrot on a stick, and when you take that carrot off if the stick, I suspect that people will get confused and angry.
Transmution stones contradicted a lot of what you said, that and the loot you get in lower level scales as well, so never know what goods you may get. In order to think objectively it's best to make sure you know in fine detail about each thing in the game. Last but not least you don't need a carrot on a stick, because if you can eat your own carrot, grow carrots for yourself to eat, and have them grow by nature you won't need to chase fun as it can come to you, be made by you, and be achievable. You'd also have a point if ANET is trying to make the next WoW like almost every other dev is trying to do, yet they are not.I might get banned for this. - Rizel Star.
I'm not afraid to tell trolls what they [need] to hear, even if that means for me to have an forced absence afterwards.
P2P LOGIC = If it's P2P it means longevity, overall better game, and THE BEST SUPPORT EVER!!!!!(Which has been rinsed and repeated about a thousand times)
Common Sense Logic = P2P logic is no better than F2P Logic.
I'm not not really blaming anyone. I'm simply making a prediction. I suspect that there will be similar situation as TOR, becuase of the reasons that I mentioned. I could totally be wrong. I was just speculating, and asking for some input of others.
I'm aware of the transmutation stones, and that gear scales. They've mentioned that there is a good chance that you will have top tiered gear shortly after reaching level 80. Most of the gear acquired at that point is side-stepping, or for aesthetics. People are pretty used to linear gear progression. Once someone gets the best stats, they aren't concerned with making lateral gear swaps. I guarantee that is the mentality of a lot of people that are going to be playing.
I'm not entirely sure what you mean by "think objectively" in this context. I mentioned that I'm just speculating; it's simply my opinion based on the reasoning that I've given. Also, there is still a lot that no one (besides the devs) knows about the game. I clearly stated that it is different in my previous post, and explained that these aren't personal issues of mine, but rather just considering the reaction of others that are used to a different breed of MMO. Obviously, there are going to be naysayers (there always are), but I'm talking about large group in consensus about an issue.