Im serious when I say this, nomss been off the mark since press beta it's like he's disappointed about not being disappointed so odd if you ask me.
I might get banned for this. - Rizel Star.
I'm not afraid to tell trolls what they [need] to hear, even if that means for me to have an forced absence afterwards.
P2P LOGIC = If it's P2P it means longevity, overall better game, and THE BEST SUPPORT EVER!!!!!(Which has been rinsed and repeated about a thousand times)
Common Sense Logic = P2P logic is no better than F2P Logic.
I thought setting up traits would take the place of GW1s skill setups with players being completely free to choose their trait sets exactly as they please.
While not exactly "a return to the holy trinity," i find the new trait system too limiting and restricting for the players. They should have given you a set number of trait slots and let you do whatever you want with them. This stinks of WoW's talent trees and I'm hugely disappointed with ANet because of this.
It's just plain stupid. If you want to be a sword warrior you have to choose attack tree. You are limited in the ways you boost your skills and these are all tied to pre-designed character concepts ANet has in mind. You cannot be truly innovative or creative here. Here are 5 options on how to play your class. Your only choice is how much you want to specialize in each of these 5.
Wow first I hear GW2 is revolutionizing MMOs by removing the trinity
Now that everyone sees they just slightly altered it everyone is going to act like they never said it was being removed completely
Nothing against GW2, I might buy it if Im not playing another game when it releases. But the double standard for this game and the thought that it can do no wrong is gonna die out real fast come release
The holy trinity is removed, not the trinity. They never said they were removing all trinities.
May I link you the original articles people are referring to:
Nothing against GW2, I might buy it if Im not playing another game when it releases. But the double standard for this game and the thought that it can do no wrong is gonna die out real fast come release
Doesn't it always?
Kind of annoying because for many of them when things don't live up to their expectations they usually end up becoming some of the relentless posters hammering everything about the game.
I just wish some would be more realistic in their expectaions and objectivity.
Who am I kidding? Like that will ever happen.
1. For god's sake mmo gamers, enough with the analogies. They're unnecessary and your comparisons are terrible, dissimilar, and illogical.
2. To posters feeling the need to state how f2p really isn't f2p: Players understand the concept. You aren't privy to some secret the rest are missing. You're embarrassing yourself.
3. Yes, Cpt. Obvious, we're not industry experts. Now run along and let the big people use the forums for their purpose.
You can still be flexible with the traits system. Basically, you can either:
1. Do several things well.
2. Do one thing EXTREMELY well.
Exactly and that's the problem. The danger comes when people can now EXTREMELY HEAL people AND can now EXTREMELY MITIGATE (not avoid) DAMAGE. That is the reason why I believe that Anet CAN possibly be bringing back dedicated healers and dedicated tankers. I don't understand why people can't see that this is a possibility if Anet is not being careful. I am not saying that is what exactly what is going to happen but people need to be aware of the possibility and not just accepting the developers' word. Let us not be blind.
All I ask people, is to be watchful for signs that might not make GW2 the best it could be and provide appropriate feedback to the devs.
With the change to the trait system it's very likly you will see people demanding certain builds for dungeon runs.
With any system this will be the case.
Not true. With a system that allows you to respec whenever, people are not going to care what build you have going IN the dungeon since you can just change if you need to.
Just another OP who fails at reading comprehension, creates an image in his mind of what he thought he read, likened it to his closest experience then started believing it was truth.
"The problem with quotes from the Internet is that it's almost impossible to validate their authenticity." - Abraham Lincoln
I thought setting up traits would take the place of GW1s skill setups with players being completely free to choose their trait sets exactly as they please.
While not exactly "a return to the holy trinity," i find the new trait system too limiting and restricting for the players. They should have given you a set number of trait slots and let you do whatever you want with them. This stinks of WoW's talent trees and I'm hugely disappointed with ANet because of this.
It's just plain stupid. If you want to be a sword warrior you have to choose attack tree. You are limited in the ways you boost your skills and these are all tied to pre-designed character concepts ANet has in mind. You cannot be truly innovative or creative here. Here are 5 options on how to play your class. Your only choice is how much you want to specialize in each of these 5.
I'm really, really disappointed.
Um, three of the warrior trees are "attack" trees, and none of them are named the "attack tree"; so I have to question if you bothered to look over every tree and their associated attributes and see the inherent possibilities before you went into rant mode.
You basically get to choose what kind of damage you want to do: bursty crits and amped up power abilities, powerful consistent damage, or slowly wear down your enemies with condition DoTs. No matter which you choose, it is still going to be vital that you swap your weapons and make full use of all your abilities. What will vary is the abilities you prioritize or focus on.
Imagine a condition oriented warrior. You'd probably want to be highly mobile so you can dart in, apply various effects, and dash out to safety while your enemy is slowly worn down. You can complement this any way you wish. You can spec secondly into Tactics to help you withstand the damage you take among your enemies while applying your effects, and then when you dash out, you dash to your ranged allies to buff them with your enhanced boons. Then bust out your ranged weapon set, apply more effects from a safe distance until your melee cooldowns are ready, and dive back in (assuming it's safe to do so.) Or you could spec secondly into Discipline and thirdly a little into Defense to have slightly enhanced heals: so you dive in and burst enemies down really hard, apply your conditions to finish them off, dash to safety and heal/assist support allies.
And those are just a few possibilities for one class based around ONE of the 5 trees. Not to mention this would create a warrior play style that has virtually never before been seen--and I suspect it will be highly viable. Should you not want to play this way, you could absolutely play a much more traditional power front lines bruiser.
You choose how you want to play first and foremost. Whether you are more concerned about focusing on a particular weapon or on a particular damage style regardless of the weapon, you choose. THEN you pick the traits to complement your style.
Hopefully, if implemented well, your chosen traits will allow you to feel noticeably more powerful at what you chose to do. Hopefully it will feel satisfying.
You can still be flexible with the traits system. Basically, you can either:
1. Do several things well.
2. Do one thing EXTREMELY well.
Exactly and that's the problem. The danger comes when people can now EXTREMELY HEAL people AND can now EXTREMELY MITIGATE (not avoid) DAMAGE. That is the reason why I believe that Anet CAN possibly be bringing back dedicated healers and dedicated tankers. I don't understand why people can't see that this is a possibility if Anet is not being careful. I am not saying that is what exactly what is going to happen but people need to be aware of the possibility and not just accepting the developers' word. Let us not be blind.
All I ask people, is to be watchful for signs that might not make GW2 the best it could be and provide appropriate feedback to the devs.
By extreme you mean ~20% over someone without any traits?
Yeah. It's basically about as big an effect as runes were in GW1 (hint: they didn't make a massive difference, but were just about noticeable).
I looked over all the traits for both the elementalist and the warrior, and honestly, I don't think they are going to force this game into any kind of "trinity" combat. Don't get me wrong, there ARE traits that give bonuses to defense and healing. But after the dungeon videos I've seen, these bonuses just aren't extreme enough to allow someone to tank or main heal.
In those videos, players' health gets reduced to zero in a matter of seconds when they try to just go toe to toe with a boss MOB. A defense bonus of even 50% isn't going to let you go toe to toe with him.
And as for main healing, there are some traits that either increase your healing, or make heals fire when you do something else (like shouting). While I'm sure this will help you support your team, I seriously doubt the healing is going to be enough to overshadow the self heal or keep a prospective "tank" alive while he tries to be a meat shield.
Finally, remember there is still no real way to control aggro. No taunting, no limiting your DPS to minimize aggro. So even if you do go for a totally defensive build and manage to be able to "tank" a boss for a while, there's no guarantee that he's actually going to decide to hit you.
So in short, I wouldn't freak out about this. The traits don't look all that bad. My guess is that they will just allow you to personalize how your character PLAYS but not necessarily what he/she is relegated to in a group.
I see these changes as a good thing. As others have said there will be differences but they don't appear to be extreme enough to make anything totally necessary.
Offtopic: I don't entirely understand the no aggro thing. So all of the mobs just ping pong around? How is that going to be fun? I don't think all mobs should be no aggro or all mobs have aggro they should mix it up.
Edit: Thanks Comfy, that makes good sense. I didn't play GW1 as it was marketed as PvP only. GW2 looks to have both PvE and PvP in mind so I'll be checking it out.
I see these changes as a good thing. As others have said there will be differences but they don't appear to be extreme enough to make anything totally necessary.
Offtopic: I don't entirely understand the no aggro thing. So all of the mobs just ping pong around? How is that going to be fun? I don't think all mobs should be no aggro or all mobs have aggro they should mix it up.
In guild wars and guild wars 2, mobs aggro is a more 'intelligent' way. They will attempt to attack the weakest target in the group to finish them off or the one they deem as being the most threatening (like a healer or ele). They will also attack targets that physically stop them reaching their target like minions and warriors.
They also will use attacks on specific characters to lock them down. For example, a mesmer will use soothing images on a character that use adrenaline skills (which means they can't gain adrenaline until the hex is removed) even if that mob isn't actively fighting that character at the moment (they take a second of their time to ruin your day if they can), or use backfire on a healer ect.
It's hard to explain properly, but if you play GW1 you'll see that mob's are more interesting and dangerous to fight than normal MMO's as they respond in a more intelligent way.
Originally posted by nomss So with the attribute system they went from something like: "We want you to experiment with the system" to back to, "Yea sorry, got to have the trinity". What's coming next, subs?
You wanne spam hours on end LFM-Tank-Healer-DPS needed?
Or you can't handle the variety this give you for fill every roll you want freedom of choice instead premade classes?
Finally you get a themepark where no real premade TANK-HEALER-DPS and many already starting to freak out and dunno what to do when the game launched.
ADEPT have fun with the new set of rules instead stuck in ancient trinity.
Hope to build full AMD system RYZEN/VEGA/AM4!!!
MB:Asus V De Luxe z77 CPU:Intell Icore7 3770k GPU: AMD Fury X(waiting for BIG VEGA 10 or 11 HBM2?(bit unclear now)) MEMORY:Corsair PLAT.DDR3 1866MHZ 16GB PSU:Corsair AX1200i OS:Windows 10 64bit
I looked over all the traits for both the elementalist and the warrior, and honestly, I don't think they are going to force this game into any kind of "trinity" combat. Don't get me wrong, there ARE traits that give bonuses to defense and healing. But after the dungeon videos I've seen, these bonuses just aren't extreme enough to allow someone to tank or main heal.
In those videos, players' health gets reduced to zero in a matter of seconds when they try to just go toe to toe with a boss MOB. A defense bonus of even 50% isn't going to let you go toe to toe with him.
And as for main healing, there are some traits that either increase your healing, or make heals fire when you do something else (like shouting). While I'm sure this will help you support your team, I seriously doubt the healing is going to be enough to overshadow the self heal or keep a prospective "tank" alive while he tries to be a meat shield.
Finally, remember there is still no real way to control aggro. No taunting, no limiting your DPS to minimize aggro. So even if you do go for a totally defensive build and manage to be able to "tank" a boss for a while, there's no guarantee that he's actually going to decide to hit you.
So in short, I wouldn't freak out about this. The traits don't look all that bad. My guess is that they will just allow you to personalize how your character PLAYS but not necessarily what he/she is relegated to in a group.
Oh my god! Someone actually had the common sense to actually look at the traits and make an informed observation based off that!? why...this is nigh unheard of!
Whats going on here!
Currently waiting for the MMO industry to put out something good.
Buffing your outgoing heal doesn't mean you magically become a dedicated healer. You still cannot outheal damage. Those who rather play healer will like the system.
Good to see someone with common sense.
Traiting into healing wont make you a healer, and traiting into survival wont make you a tank.
I'm sure it will help if at least one or more people in the group has picked support traits, but the amount of heals recieved from skills that heal other players is minimal compared to the self heals. The realistic outcome is that everyone will pick their own defensive / healing traits and keep themselves alive while helping out other players a little.
next is they are dropping box fee, its free with ad support option.
The cheap bastard in me would love this XD
1. For god's sake mmo gamers, enough with the analogies. They're unnecessary and your comparisons are terrible, dissimilar, and illogical.
2. To posters feeling the need to state how f2p really isn't f2p: Players understand the concept. You aren't privy to some secret the rest are missing. You're embarrassing yourself.
3. Yes, Cpt. Obvious, we're not industry experts. Now run along and let the big people use the forums for their purpose.
Imagine a condition oriented warrior. You'd probably want to be highly mobile so you can dart in, apply various effects, and dash out to safety while your enemy is slowly worn down. You can complement this any way you wish. You can spec secondly into Tactics to help you withstand the damage you take among your enemies while applying your effects, and then when you dash out, you dash to your ranged allies to buff them with your enhanced boons. Then bust out your ranged weapon set, apply more effects from a safe distance until your melee cooldowns are ready, and dive back in (assuming it's safe to do so.)
You choose how you want to play first and foremost. Whether you are more concerned about focusing on a particular weapon or on a particular damage style regardless of the weapon, you choose. THEN you pick the traits to complement your style.
Hopefully, if implemented well, your chosen traits will allow you to feel noticeably more powerful at what you chose to do. Hopefully it will feel satisfying.
shhh your giving away my Warrior Dual Weilding Sword/Rifle spec lol.
and to the second part. Thats my thoughts exactly. If you want to specialize in a weapon set you should be SPECIALIZED. Sure you could throw in some mitigation skills strap on a shield and be able to take a few hits, but thats not YOUR Warrior, thats the GENERAL Warrior overall. Any Monkey can pick up a shield and take a hit or 3.
So with the attribute system they went from something like: "We want you to experiment with the system" to back to, "Yea sorry, got to have the trinity".
What's coming next, subs?
I just love it how some people can overreact.
Rest asured, the only reason behind the changed trait system is the fact that they want you to have more fun over a long time..
Best MMO experiences : EQ(PvE), DAoC(PvP), WoW(total package) LOTRO (worldfeel) GW2 (Artstyle and animations and worlddesign) SWTOR (Story immersion) TSW (story) ESO (character advancement)
Comments
I might get banned for this. - Rizel Star.
I'm not afraid to tell trolls what they [need] to hear, even if that means for me to have an forced absence afterwards.
P2P LOGIC = If it's P2P it means longevity, overall better game, and THE BEST SUPPORT EVER!!!!!(Which has been rinsed and repeated about a thousand times)
Common Sense Logic = P2P logic is no better than F2P Logic.
I think the new trait system is garbage.
I thought setting up traits would take the place of GW1s skill setups with players being completely free to choose their trait sets exactly as they please.
While not exactly "a return to the holy trinity," i find the new trait system too limiting and restricting for the players. They should have given you a set number of trait slots and let you do whatever you want with them. This stinks of WoW's talent trees and I'm hugely disappointed with ANet because of this.
It's just plain stupid. If you want to be a sword warrior you have to choose attack tree. You are limited in the ways you boost your skills and these are all tied to pre-designed character concepts ANet has in mind. You cannot be truly innovative or creative here. Here are 5 options on how to play your class. Your only choice is how much you want to specialize in each of these 5.
I'm really, really disappointed.
The holy trinity is removed, not the trinity. They never said they were removing all trinities.
May I link you the original articles people are referring to:
http://www.arena.net/blog/jon-peters-talks-combat
http://www.guildwars2.com/en/the-game/combat/healing-death/
Don't put words into people's mouth.
Doesn't it always?
Kind of annoying because for many of them when things don't live up to their expectations they usually end up becoming some of the relentless posters hammering everything about the game.
I just wish some would be more realistic in their expectaions and objectivity.
Who am I kidding? Like that will ever happen.
1. For god's sake mmo gamers, enough with the analogies. They're unnecessary and your comparisons are terrible, dissimilar, and illogical.
2. To posters feeling the need to state how f2p really isn't f2p: Players understand the concept. You aren't privy to some secret the rest are missing. You're embarrassing yourself.
3. Yes, Cpt. Obvious, we're not industry experts. Now run along and let the big people use the forums for their purpose.
With the change to the trait system it's very likly you will see people demanding certain builds for dungeon runs.
My theme song.
With any system this will be the case.
Exactly and that's the problem. The danger comes when people can now EXTREMELY HEAL people AND can now EXTREMELY MITIGATE (not avoid) DAMAGE. That is the reason why I believe that Anet CAN possibly be bringing back dedicated healers and dedicated tankers. I don't understand why people can't see that this is a possibility if Anet is not being careful. I am not saying that is what exactly what is going to happen but people need to be aware of the possibility and not just accepting the developers' word. Let us not be blind.
All I ask people, is to be watchful for signs that might not make GW2 the best it could be and provide appropriate feedback to the devs.
Not true. With a system that allows you to respec whenever, people are not going to care what build you have going IN the dungeon since you can just change if you need to.
Those are generally the kinds of people I don't play MMORPG's with.
BOYCOTTING EA / ORIGIN going forward.
Nothing to see here, folks.
Just another OP who fails at reading comprehension, creates an image in his mind of what he thought he read, likened it to his closest experience then started believing it was truth.
"The problem with quotes from the Internet is that it's almost impossible to validate their authenticity." - Abraham Lincoln
Um, three of the warrior trees are "attack" trees, and none of them are named the "attack tree"; so I have to question if you bothered to look over every tree and their associated attributes and see the inherent possibilities before you went into rant mode.
You basically get to choose what kind of damage you want to do: bursty crits and amped up power abilities, powerful consistent damage, or slowly wear down your enemies with condition DoTs. No matter which you choose, it is still going to be vital that you swap your weapons and make full use of all your abilities. What will vary is the abilities you prioritize or focus on.
Imagine a condition oriented warrior. You'd probably want to be highly mobile so you can dart in, apply various effects, and dash out to safety while your enemy is slowly worn down. You can complement this any way you wish. You can spec secondly into Tactics to help you withstand the damage you take among your enemies while applying your effects, and then when you dash out, you dash to your ranged allies to buff them with your enhanced boons. Then bust out your ranged weapon set, apply more effects from a safe distance until your melee cooldowns are ready, and dive back in (assuming it's safe to do so.) Or you could spec secondly into Discipline and thirdly a little into Defense to have slightly enhanced heals: so you dive in and burst enemies down really hard, apply your conditions to finish them off, dash to safety and heal/assist support allies.
And those are just a few possibilities for one class based around ONE of the 5 trees. Not to mention this would create a warrior play style that has virtually never before been seen--and I suspect it will be highly viable. Should you not want to play this way, you could absolutely play a much more traditional power front lines bruiser.
You choose how you want to play first and foremost. Whether you are more concerned about focusing on a particular weapon or on a particular damage style regardless of the weapon, you choose. THEN you pick the traits to complement your style.
Hopefully, if implemented well, your chosen traits will allow you to feel noticeably more powerful at what you chose to do. Hopefully it will feel satisfying.
next is they are dropping box fee, its free with ad support option.
By extreme you mean ~20% over someone without any traits?
Yeah. It's basically about as big an effect as runes were in GW1 (hint: they didn't make a massive difference, but were just about noticeable).
Before we freak out about this any more...
I went to this wiki site and they have a lot of the actual traits listed there: http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Trait.
I looked over all the traits for both the elementalist and the warrior, and honestly, I don't think they are going to force this game into any kind of "trinity" combat. Don't get me wrong, there ARE traits that give bonuses to defense and healing. But after the dungeon videos I've seen, these bonuses just aren't extreme enough to allow someone to tank or main heal.
In those videos, players' health gets reduced to zero in a matter of seconds when they try to just go toe to toe with a boss MOB. A defense bonus of even 50% isn't going to let you go toe to toe with him.
And as for main healing, there are some traits that either increase your healing, or make heals fire when you do something else (like shouting). While I'm sure this will help you support your team, I seriously doubt the healing is going to be enough to overshadow the self heal or keep a prospective "tank" alive while he tries to be a meat shield.
Finally, remember there is still no real way to control aggro. No taunting, no limiting your DPS to minimize aggro. So even if you do go for a totally defensive build and manage to be able to "tank" a boss for a while, there's no guarantee that he's actually going to decide to hit you.
So in short, I wouldn't freak out about this. The traits don't look all that bad. My guess is that they will just allow you to personalize how your character PLAYS but not necessarily what he/she is relegated to in a group.
Are you team Azeroth, team Tyria, or team Jacob?
I see these changes as a good thing. As others have said there will be differences but they don't appear to be extreme enough to make anything totally necessary.
Offtopic: I don't entirely understand the no aggro thing. So all of the mobs just ping pong around? How is that going to be fun? I don't think all mobs should be no aggro or all mobs have aggro they should mix it up.
Edit: Thanks Comfy, that makes good sense. I didn't play GW1 as it was marketed as PvP only. GW2 looks to have both PvE and PvP in mind so I'll be checking it out.
In guild wars and guild wars 2, mobs aggro is a more 'intelligent' way. They will attempt to attack the weakest target in the group to finish them off or the one they deem as being the most threatening (like a healer or ele). They will also attack targets that physically stop them reaching their target like minions and warriors.
They also will use attacks on specific characters to lock them down. For example, a mesmer will use soothing images on a character that use adrenaline skills (which means they can't gain adrenaline until the hex is removed) even if that mob isn't actively fighting that character at the moment (they take a second of their time to ruin your day if they can), or use backfire on a healer ect.
It's hard to explain properly, but if you play GW1 you'll see that mob's are more interesting and dangerous to fight than normal MMO's as they respond in a more intelligent way.
Anyone who needs a pocket healer or full on tanking traits is doing it wrong.
Stop standing in the fire nubs.
You wanne spam hours on end LFM-Tank-Healer-DPS needed?
Or you can't handle the variety this give you for fill every roll you want freedom of choice instead premade classes?
Finally you get a themepark where no real premade TANK-HEALER-DPS and many already starting to freak out and dunno what to do when the game launched.
ADEPT have fun with the new set of rules instead stuck in ancient trinity.
Hope to build full AMD system RYZEN/VEGA/AM4!!!
MB:Asus V De Luxe z77
CPU:Intell Icore7 3770k
GPU: AMD Fury X(waiting for BIG VEGA 10 or 11 HBM2?(bit unclear now))
MEMORY:Corsair PLAT.DDR3 1866MHZ 16GB
PSU:Corsair AX1200i
OS:Windows 10 64bit
Oh my god! Someone actually had the common sense to actually look at the traits and make an informed observation based off that!? why...this is nigh unheard of!
Whats going on here!
Good to see someone with common sense.
Traiting into healing wont make you a healer, and traiting into survival wont make you a tank.
I'm sure it will help if at least one or more people in the group has picked support traits, but the amount of heals recieved from skills that heal other players is minimal compared to the self heals. The realistic outcome is that everyone will pick their own defensive / healing traits and keep themselves alive while helping out other players a little.
Come on people,check his post history,not even worth talking to him about GW2.
The cheap bastard in me would love this XD
1. For god's sake mmo gamers, enough with the analogies. They're unnecessary and your comparisons are terrible, dissimilar, and illogical.
2. To posters feeling the need to state how f2p really isn't f2p: Players understand the concept. You aren't privy to some secret the rest are missing. You're embarrassing yourself.
3. Yes, Cpt. Obvious, we're not industry experts. Now run along and let the big people use the forums for their purpose.
shhh your giving away my Warrior Dual Weilding Sword/Rifle spec lol.
and to the second part. Thats my thoughts exactly. If you want to specialize in a weapon set you should be SPECIALIZED. Sure you could throw in some mitigation skills strap on a shield and be able to take a few hits, but thats not YOUR Warrior, thats the GENERAL Warrior overall. Any Monkey can pick up a shield and take a hit or 3.
I just love it how some people can overreact.
Rest asured, the only reason behind the changed trait system is the fact that they want you to have more fun over a long time..
Best MMO experiences : EQ(PvE), DAoC(PvP), WoW(total package) LOTRO (worldfeel) GW2 (Artstyle and animations and worlddesign) SWTOR (Story immersion) TSW (story) ESO (character advancement)