Well considering the "traits" even have identicle names as gw1's attributes i'm sure they are pretty much the same gig but with the small secondary effect of buffing certain new "attributes", which in turn seem to have pretty insubstantial effects.
Howbout we wait and see how they work in action and then do polls about "wether or not", instead of guess-polling that ultimately leads to a shitwar with the community of haters, fanboys and general morons
Ok just to clarify, no it is not 'Fine'. Only people who haven't actually analysed the traits properly can say this. I certainly would not be happy if it got released as is. Its 'Fine' for the stage of game development.
Don't forget they need to test this stuff in beta.
Additionally there are several things not covered by the traits currently. E.g. Warrior has no traits at all for Mace! Let alone offhand weapons.
I voted 'Fine but meh'.
EDIT: I don't care about the respec fee. I'm just happy that we can have a PvP spec. Would like a 'WvW' spec too pls .
The warrior has traits for mace and shield and warhorn and everything else. I've delved into the traits, it seems more like you haven't.
The fact that you can't prove I don't have beta experience, or that you think that even matters whatsoever aside, it's asinine to think that past examples of failures in video games can't be applied to another one currently in development. Talent trees are a bad, bad thing. Allowing the user to make decisions that affect his or her stats that are not temporary or easily reversible is a bad, bad thing. All it does, all it has ever done, is caused some players to have suboptimal stats for their particular task. There will always be an optimal build. We gamers are insane in that we'll crunch numbers, we'll live day and night in spreadsheets, we'll smack test dummies all day long with just as much if not more scrutiny than the game developer themselves in order to find it. We as a community will define what makes a proper Warrior, Thief, etc. through traits, and anyone who is not following the same build is just playing a slightly-to-hugely less effective version of that proper character.
Why does this matter? Because this type of metagame is not fun for most people. Most people just want to click whatever, and move on. You play a mesmer. Everyone else who plays a mesmer and is your level has the same base stats that you do. That's called "Balance." Balance is a good thing.
There are a great many things to look forward to in GW2. The traits system is not one of them; all it's going to do is cause problems later.
Wait are you saying it's bad that decisions have meaning in how you create your character? It's bad that players who don't inform themselves, screw their build up? People should be able to just blindly pick anything and move on? Am I reading all of this right?
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson
It's fine, the trait system gives you a template for a variety of builds. You can swap weapon sets, swap utility skills and swap major traits out of combat, all providing you with a large number of builds for each trait template.
Changing the trait template is a bigger deal... you're changing your character's attributes as well, not just the skills and modifiers to the skills. That makes sense to do in a town, for a small fee.
I feel bad bashing the new trait system because Anet has obviously worked hard to revise it once already, but I'm just not happy with it.
At a glance the system seems okay, and I expect the majority of people who voted it "fine" have taken it at face value.
After reading the official article about the new attribute and traits system I see some issues:-
1) Linking attribute allocation to trait lines.
I may be mistaken but it seems players can no longer allocate attribute points per level like they originally could. Attribute allocation is now linked directly to the trait lines (base stats and armor stats aside).
Players who want to maximise a certain attribute are forced into a particular trait line, and players who are interested in a particular trait line are forced to settle for a particular attribute.
Let's say for example I want to play a Necro that deals good damage but also has decent minions. Do I invest my trait points into the Spite line to increase my Power (giving me access to traits I don't particularly care for), or do I invest my trait points into Death Magic to unlock minion related traits (giving me Toughness, which I don't particularly care for)?
I like the new trait system as a stand alone trait system, but I think the attribute points mechanic needs to remain seperate.
Let me allocate my attribute points into Power, and my trait points into Death Magic. That way I get the build I want.
Don't get me wrong, I can see why Anet took this path, because in a lot of cases it makes sense. It makes sense that Blood Magic Necro's get a buff to their healing... it makes sense that Earth Attunement Ele's get a buff to their Toughness. But that doesn't change the fact it is very restrictive.
At the very least, please allow me to allocate attribute points "on top" of what the trait lines affect - don't make trait lines the sole factor. There is nothing wrong with having two layers of customization... it allows for more diversity without over complicating things.
2) Too confusing!
I really appreciate that Anet has gone out of their way to re-think the attribute system... the new system allows for more diverse playstyles which is great (I even offered my concerns and suggestions on the matter), but I'm worried they've gone from one extreme to another.
Admittedly it is hard to strike a balance between simplicity and diversity. I think the main source of confusion comes from the idea of seperating attributes into primary and secondary categories.
I think 8 attributes is plenty enough to offer all the diversity they want, plus 1 attribute unique to your profession, for example:
Offensive:
Power - Increases attack (burst spike)
Precision - Increases critical hit chance and damage (chance spike)
Prowess - Increases flanking damage (positioning)
Malice - Improves the duration and damage done by conditions (pressure)
Defensive:
Toughness - Increases armor
Vitality - Increases maximum health
Stamina - Increases maximum endurance (dodge roll energy pool)
Compassion - Improves the duration of boons and improves all outgoing heals, including self heals
Profession Specific: *This one doesn't really even need to be classed as an attribute, it can just be a bonus effect from one of the trait lines.
Hunger - Increases the Necromancer's life-force pool.
Players should acquire attribute points each level to allocate to any of the 8 common attributes of their choosing, in order to create diverse and interesting builds which compliment and promote different playstyles. The profession specific attribute should only be increased by means of one of the traits, as it is at present. The 8 common attributes could also be acquired from the four remaining trait lines, base stats, armor, boons and upgrades, similar to how it is at present.
3) Returning to town to re-invest your trait points.
I'm not sure I agree with this. I can understand the need to return to town to fix broken armour because it's a great way of telling a player they're out of your their depth. But returning to town to re-invest trait points seems like an unnecessary hold up to your party or friends.
Give it a hefty gold fee by all means (maybe on a point by point basis or reset all function), but allow us to re-invest our points anywhere (except structured PvP matches and perhaps instanced Dungeons), for convenience sake.
The same thing should apply for attribute points re-allocation. Give it a hefty gold fee (point by point basis or reset all function), but make it possible to do anywhere (except structured PvP matches and perhaps instanced Dungeons).
In my opinion this is a perfect way of giving the sense of importance and permanence while still giving players the ability to re-spec without inconveniencing them or their allies.
I've started to do a little theorycrafting with the Mesmer trait set and I don't see any big negatives so far, although I've only just started. I'm able to focus a little in the areas that appeal to me and choose a few little gimmicks that appear to work well in conjunction with one another. I was put off initially by the fact that it didn't look like I'd be able to customize my character to suit my style of game play, however, now it does.
So far, so good. I'm still not seeing the reason for all the drama.
"Not fine" doesn't even begin to address how bad I think this change is.
I will try to list all my objections to it.
Traits have synergy with certain skills but the synergy goes away when you swap skills, which you're supposed to do before combat...
This wouldn't be a problem if traits were only minor customization bonuses but they appear to be flexible enough to lead to great differences in performance...
Which if you're struggling with a boss would lead you to want to respec just for that boss when you go back to repair your armor...
Which makes me think traits are sitting in this weird middle ground. It's like they don't want you to respec them, but you can for a small fee in a game with teleportation, which would just make people in your party wait in a dungeon. It's a small inconvenience in a game which seems determined to get rid of small inconveniences (easy changing skills, everyone has every gathering profession, mail is delivered to you by bird, overflow server)
The system is a big leap in complexity with 4 attributes jumping up to 10, which all have undescriptive names. Guardian Radiance buffs Precision and Expertise. Valor buffs Toughness and Prowess. Which is which again?
It's possible to completely misappropriate trait points, ending up with a 19/19/14/9/9 build with 3 Majors instead of 7. It's also possible to pick completely unhelpful Majors. This is in a game where the skill system is designed to make it practically impossible to make a bad skill build.
It's possible that I'm still just unfamiliar with the game, but I find trying to look at a trait build to be incredibly difficult to follow. For example, Fion posted on the build creator thread an elementalist build. They put 30 points in Air. I find myself trying to see what all the minor traits do in that tree and compare them to all the minors in other trees. Then I need to see if the Majors they picked make sense for the skills they took, as well as see not only if the other 9 Majors in that tree would be better, but also the 48 Majors in other trees to see what they would do, as well as weigh the contributions to attributes. And as soon as they switch skills, the majors will have to be adjusted again to see if they can be improved.
There might even be other ones I can't think of at the moment. I've been a loyal supporter of ArenaNet and GW2 for a year and half now and have always given them the benefit of the doubt. This system though I think just does not work well and does not fit with the rest of what they're trying to do with this game.
Maybe they should look into assigning the stats to the weapons themselves. Obviously you'd have to have caps per weapon/weapon set. That way though, you could tailor your weapons, to match the tactics you intend to employ with each weapon set. Maybe more specifically, it should apply to the weapon slot, that way, when you changed to a different weapon of the same type, the attribs would be there automatically, without having to apply them again.
The traits and attributes seem fine to me. At first glance I'm not a fan of having to travel back to respec but this is just looking at it from a GW players perspective. Although we did have to go back to a town or outpost to switch our skills there so this is probably the same thing. The fee I could care less about unless it proves to be so cost prohibitive to respec. One thing I haven't heard about is the ability to save different builds and switch them up as needed. I really hope there is that kind of function in the game. I really think we would need to get in there and play to have a solid opinion on it.
The traits and attributes seem fine to me. At first glance I'm not a fan of having to travel back to respec but this is just looking at it from a GW players perspective. Although we did have to go back to a town or outpost to switch our skills there so this is probably the same thing. The fee I could care less about unless it proves to be so cost prohibitive to respec. One thing I haven't heard about is the ability to save different builds and switch them up as needed. I really hope there is that kind of function in the game. I really think we would need to get in there and play to have a solid opinion on it.
You only have to travel back to rebuild your template. That resets your attribute points to base, resets your trait points to base and removes all major and minor traits.
Changing your builds is something you can still do on the fly. Once you've set your template up in town, you're free to swap weapons/weapon sets, swap around utility skills and swap around major traits. You quite literally have hundreds of builds to play with once you've assigned your trait points and build that base template.
Comments
As said before, my only gripe with this system, is not being able to switch traits when i switch skills...
Its not fun and its totally against the design filosophy of Arenanet, its something one would expect from old school MMO's and not from a-NET.
Best MMO experiences : EQ(PvE), DAoC(PvP), WoW(total package) LOTRO (worldfeel) GW2 (Artstyle and animations and worlddesign) SWTOR (Story immersion) TSW (story) ESO (character advancement)
Same here.
I would like to see the traits changeable on the fly.
This might change until the release tho. (Hopefully.)
SexuaLobster's Grease Portal
Well considering the "traits" even have identicle names as gw1's attributes i'm sure they are pretty much the same gig but with the small secondary effect of buffing certain new "attributes", which in turn seem to have pretty insubstantial effects.
td;dr its the same as gw1
My blog:
Howbout we wait and see how they work in action and then do polls about "wether or not", instead of guess-polling that ultimately leads to a shitwar with the community of haters, fanboys and general morons
The warrior has traits for mace and shield and warhorn and everything else. I've delved into the traits, it seems more like you haven't.
This is not a game.
Wait are you saying it's bad that decisions have meaning in how you create your character? It's bad that players who don't inform themselves, screw their build up? People should be able to just blindly pick anything and move on? Am I reading all of this right?
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson
It's fine, the trait system gives you a template for a variety of builds. You can swap weapon sets, swap utility skills and swap major traits out of combat, all providing you with a large number of builds for each trait template.
Changing the trait template is a bigger deal... you're changing your character's attributes as well, not just the skills and modifiers to the skills. That makes sense to do in a town, for a small fee.
Oderint, dum metuant.
I feel bad bashing the new trait system because Anet has obviously worked hard to revise it once already, but I'm just not happy with it.
At a glance the system seems okay, and I expect the majority of people who voted it "fine" have taken it at face value.
After reading the official article about the new attribute and traits system I see some issues:-
1) Linking attribute allocation to trait lines.
I may be mistaken but it seems players can no longer allocate attribute points per level like they originally could. Attribute allocation is now linked directly to the trait lines (base stats and armor stats aside).
Players who want to maximise a certain attribute are forced into a particular trait line, and players who are interested in a particular trait line are forced to settle for a particular attribute.
Let's say for example I want to play a Necro that deals good damage but also has decent minions. Do I invest my trait points into the Spite line to increase my Power (giving me access to traits I don't particularly care for), or do I invest my trait points into Death Magic to unlock minion related traits (giving me Toughness, which I don't particularly care for)?
I like the new trait system as a stand alone trait system, but I think the attribute points mechanic needs to remain seperate.
Let me allocate my attribute points into Power, and my trait points into Death Magic. That way I get the build I want.
Don't get me wrong, I can see why Anet took this path, because in a lot of cases it makes sense. It makes sense that Blood Magic Necro's get a buff to their healing... it makes sense that Earth Attunement Ele's get a buff to their Toughness. But that doesn't change the fact it is very restrictive.
At the very least, please allow me to allocate attribute points "on top" of what the trait lines affect - don't make trait lines the sole factor. There is nothing wrong with having two layers of customization... it allows for more diversity without over complicating things.
2) Too confusing!
I really appreciate that Anet has gone out of their way to re-think the attribute system... the new system allows for more diverse playstyles which is great (I even offered my concerns and suggestions on the matter), but I'm worried they've gone from one extreme to another.
Admittedly it is hard to strike a balance between simplicity and diversity. I think the main source of confusion comes from the idea of seperating attributes into primary and secondary categories.
I think 8 attributes is plenty enough to offer all the diversity they want, plus 1 attribute unique to your profession, for example:
Offensive:
Power - Increases attack (burst spike)
Precision - Increases critical hit chance and damage (chance spike)
Prowess - Increases flanking damage (positioning)
Malice - Improves the duration and damage done by conditions (pressure)
Defensive:
Toughness - Increases armor
Vitality - Increases maximum health
Stamina - Increases maximum endurance (dodge roll energy pool)
Compassion - Improves the duration of boons and improves all outgoing heals, including self heals
Profession Specific: *This one doesn't really even need to be classed as an attribute, it can just be a bonus effect from one of the trait lines.
Hunger - Increases the Necromancer's life-force pool.
Players should acquire attribute points each level to allocate to any of the 8 common attributes of their choosing, in order to create diverse and interesting builds which compliment and promote different playstyles. The profession specific attribute should only be increased by means of one of the traits, as it is at present. The 8 common attributes could also be acquired from the four remaining trait lines, base stats, armor, boons and upgrades, similar to how it is at present.
3) Returning to town to re-invest your trait points.
I'm not sure I agree with this. I can understand the need to return to town to fix broken armour because it's a great way of telling a player they're out of your their depth. But returning to town to re-invest trait points seems like an unnecessary hold up to your party or friends.
Give it a hefty gold fee by all means (maybe on a point by point basis or reset all function), but allow us to re-invest our points anywhere (except structured PvP matches and perhaps instanced Dungeons), for convenience sake.
The same thing should apply for attribute points re-allocation. Give it a hefty gold fee (point by point basis or reset all function), but make it possible to do anywhere (except structured PvP matches and perhaps instanced Dungeons).
In my opinion this is a perfect way of giving the sense of importance and permanence while still giving players the ability to re-spec without inconveniencing them or their allies.
I've started to do a little theorycrafting with the Mesmer trait set and I don't see any big negatives so far, although I've only just started. I'm able to focus a little in the areas that appeal to me and choose a few little gimmicks that appear to work well in conjunction with one another. I was put off initially by the fact that it didn't look like I'd be able to customize my character to suit my style of game play, however, now it does.
So far, so good. I'm still not seeing the reason for all the drama.
Maybe they should look into assigning the stats to the weapons themselves. Obviously you'd have to have caps per weapon/weapon set. That way though, you could tailor your weapons, to match the tactics you intend to employ with each weapon set. Maybe more specifically, it should apply to the weapon slot, that way, when you changed to a different weapon of the same type, the attribs would be there automatically, without having to apply them again.
Lots of stalkers in here. lol
(>^_^)> MMO Veteran <(^_^<)
Currently Playing: Tera Online
The traits and attributes seem fine to me. At first glance I'm not a fan of having to travel back to respec but this is just looking at it from a GW players perspective. Although we did have to go back to a town or outpost to switch our skills there so this is probably the same thing. The fee I could care less about unless it proves to be so cost prohibitive to respec. One thing I haven't heard about is the ability to save different builds and switch them up as needed. I really hope there is that kind of function in the game. I really think we would need to get in there and play to have a solid opinion on it.
You only have to travel back to rebuild your template. That resets your attribute points to base, resets your trait points to base and removes all major and minor traits.
Changing your builds is something you can still do on the fly. Once you've set your template up in town, you're free to swap weapons/weapon sets, swap around utility skills and swap around major traits. You quite literally have hundreds of builds to play with once you've assigned your trait points and build that base template.
Oderint, dum metuant.