This thread is actually confusing 'dumb' with 'grindy'.
Games are a lot more complex now then it was before back in EQ days.
From a mechanical point of view, WoW raid bosses now are leaps more complex than anything EQ had back in the day.
However, EQ was a lot more 'grindy'.
I always wonder why MMO players confuse 'grindy' with 'hard' but meh, facts are facts.
yeah definitely agree with this, as i look back on my days in EQ1 i don't exactly remember a challenging game i remember a tedious one that elongated itself with crappy mechanics and gameplay.
here spend 30 minutes riding on a boat - ooo challenging
spend 20 minutes on regening - thats hard to do.
hey you need this boss to drop this item to complete your quest? well the boss is dead easy but only has a .5% chance to drop the item you need and it only drops one so hope you're not the only one in your guild that needs it.
kill 100000 of the same basic AI mob in order to level
sorry none of that is CHALLENGING ... its tedious as all hell but hardly challenging.
As opposd to every class being a solo god?
The challenge is relative for sure.
And what isn't "dumber" about everyone being given everything right away as opposed to having to earn it?
what does my post have to do with soloing? even in these "dumbed down" games i am almost always grouped sorry you need a game to force people to play with you.
yeah people like to get rewarded for their efforts ... holy crap what a concept, even in jobs it works like this, you show up to your job and put in the hours ... you're "rewarded" in terms of being paid for doing so ... but a GAME should be different?
I know its a crazy concept to some of you "old schoolers" but if I down a raid mob with my guild or hell a random pug, I DID EARN IT and should be given the update for my quest.
So when we first were marketed washing machines, we were told of how much time we would save, how we would be free to sit around and read books and have more free time than ever before.
Every innovation leads us to believe we'll have more free time, more freedom, and we wind up finding more things that need doing. There is always a group that tells us it will make us all lazy and weak and make us lack imagination, yet every time we continue to progress and make new discoveries.
I'm optimistic.
Oh and OP I don't think they're dumbing down MMOs because we're some how becoming more and more stupid. They are trying to lower the bar to the lowest common denominator, the more potential people you have in your audience, then the greater your potential earnings. Money talks.
This thread is actually confusing 'dumb' with 'grindy'.
Games are a lot more complex now then it was before back in EQ days.
From a mechanical point of view, WoW raid bosses now are leaps more complex than anything EQ had back in the day.
However, EQ was a lot more 'grindy'.
I always wonder why MMO players confuse 'grindy' with 'hard' but meh, facts are facts.
yeah definitely agree with this, as i look back on my days in EQ1 i don't exactly remember a challenging game i remember a tedious one that elongated itself with crappy mechanics and gameplay.
here spend 30 minutes riding on a boat - ooo challenging
spend 20 minutes on regening - thats hard to do.
hey you need this boss to drop this item to complete your quest? well the boss is dead easy but only has a .5% chance to drop the item you need and it only drops one so hope you're not the only one in your guild that needs it.
kill 100000 of the same basic AI mob in order to level
sorry none of that is CHALLENGING ... its tedious as all hell but hardly challenging.
As opposd to every class being a solo god?
The challenge is relative for sure.
And what isn't "dumber" about everyone being given everything right away as opposed to having to earn it?
what does my post have to do with soloing? even in these "dumbed down" games i am almost always grouped sorry you need a game to force people to play with you.
yeah people like to get rewarded for their efforts ... holy crap what a concept, even in jobs it works like this, you show up to your job and put in the hours ... you're "rewarded" in terms of being paid for doing so ... but a GAME should be different?
I know its a crazy concept to some of you "old schoolers" but if I down a raid mob with my guild or hell a random pug, I DID EARN IT and should be given the update for my quest.
He probably thinks that to "earn" it, you have to do content countless times, or win a RNG roll. This is not earning anything, it's grind or luck. I hope MMO find better ways to not count on the RNG or grinding (tokens/commendation grind) in order to reward players.
I was just thinking to myself how much I used to love Everquest. I began to realize how it started to lose its appeal to me once SoE began "dumbing it down" to suit the masses that ultimately found haven with games like WoW.
I then took a look at the situation with WoW today. Those same masses that SoE "dumbed down" EQ to try and please I now often see complaining about WoW because because Blizzard has "dumbed down" the game to suit a new set of masses.
So it just makes me wonder, will today's MMORPGs be "dumbed down" even further in the future? Will today's masses complain about how easy the games have become 8 or 10 years from now? Just how "dumb" can MMORPGs get before the masses begin to desire the opposite?
FYI: Before anyone starts flaming, this is not a troll thread. I use quotes around "dumb" because I dont mean it as an insult to anyone's intelligence, merely as a reference to the term "dumbing down".
Yes, games will keep getting dumbed down the more popular they become. It already is. Look at SWTOR. Though it's still hysterical when WoW players, playing the most simple and casual MMO on the market, complain about something getting dumbed down.
See at least with EQ, that game was hard compared to everything else. If you're playing WoW, you're NOT playing for the difficulty, so why complain? If you really wanted a harder game, you wouldn't be playing WoW, you know?
In short, I don't believe we are getting dumber. Technology is on the rise and with that, so is its use by the commonfolk. I do believe, however, that our wit or 'common sense' is on the decline.
I see this daily to be quite honest. Many booksmart people have lost ways with intelligent conversation and the rejection of actively challenging themselves in favor of instant gratification. We are all guilty of it to some degree- it is just how we are evolving
Even my post is kept short for the TLDR majority. Likewise, why in the world would I want to spend time on an essay that only a few would bother reading?
Absolute complacency and acceptance!
Something to be said for this.
While I was waiting for a good mmo ie GW2, it's funny in about 1yr+ my take on games has changed considerably. There's potential in this genre that's waiting to diffuse:
People's tastes change as they age. That's an important consideration to make.
People seem more distracted with their gadgets. It creates an ADHD mindset.
That's something I noticed too, especially in the city. It's kinda eerie being in a waiting room full of people with absolutely no sound except for them tapping on their phones.
"I have only two out of my company and 20 out of some other company. We need support, but it is almost suicide to try to get it here as we are swept by machine gun fire and a constant barrage is on us. I have no one on my left and only a few on my right. I will hold." (First Lieutenant Clifton B. Cates, US Marine Corps, Soissons, 19 July 1918)
Man I am quite amused by the way that some people seem to extrapolate their own perception of "intelligence".
20 years ago computer games was mostly something that "geeks" were developing for an audience of likeminded "geeks." Worked well because the producers and the audience basically had the same mindset.
Guess what? Technology advanced and a lot of people with different mindsets showed up as PC-owners. Every "geek" developer can spot the difference between appealing to 100 fellow "geeks" vs. 1000's of "the rest". Is this "bad"? Not in my book - Along with all the regular people and the incredible amount of content (including games) being provided, I constantly find that my options have expanded.
I can choose to play a "hard" game ("Hard" being the time I invest in learning the mechanics or the accepting the RNG in the game) or I can choose to play something that provides instant fun, not only to me but also to kids I got while humanity struggled through the PC-geek period.
Sure, Lineage 2 was fun "back then" - But a few years passed and today I have much more fun playing a few hours of an incredybli "dumbed down" game with my tween/teen kids: Dungeon Defenders.
My "fun" == My money! Keep me going in there == More money!
Go ahead, be:
intelligent and boring = $ n/100
Simplistic and boring = $ n (More people around - someone will eventually bite)
Simple and fun = $ nn
Simple, fun and building societies = $ nnn (The WoW factor)
intelligent and fun = $ nnn (Think "easy to learn, hard to master")
intelligent, fun and building societies = $ "Sky's the limit"
intelligent, boring and building societies = $ back to #1 + a few strange people looking for attention.
"Intelligence" is a number of things. Whatever you seek, it is bound to be out there in some form, but it is probably quite "niche" :-)
We dont need casuals in our games!!! Errm... Well we DO need casuals to fund and populate our games - But the games should be all about "hardcore" because: We dont need casuals in our games!!! (repeat ad infinitum)
Dumb down who cares as long you have fun intelligent or not thats what count. You can throw whatever theory on the dumb down matter you want, its not importend at all.
There are plenty of choices out there in different difficultys choose whatever you like.
If you dont like easy games don't buy them its simple as that, go play chess instead ok:)
Hope to build full AMD system RYZEN/VEGA/AM4!!!
MB:Asus V De Luxe z77 CPU:Intell Icore7 3770k GPU: AMD Fury X(waiting for BIG VEGA 10 or 11 HBM2?(bit unclear now)) MEMORY:Corsair PLAT.DDR3 1866MHZ 16GB PSU:Corsair AX1200i OS:Windows 10 64bit
Everquest, Ultima Online, Asherons Call, Anarchy Online, Dark Age Of Camelot were not hard games at all this notion that they were hard is only in the heads of players. Those games had no tutorials, no guides in the early days, no direction of what to do, no quests or in fact content you stood in a spot and grinded your tits off. Those games had to be learned by trial and error or asking other players what the bloody hell you were doing. They extended the level curve to keep players playing because they had no idea of what to give players when they did eventually reach cap or maxed skills. If I try to build a PC with no prior knowledge of what to do it would seem hard but if I learn how to do it it becomes damn easy thats all that happened to the MMO sphere you learened what to do and that makes it seem that games are easier nowadays. Games have always been about learning THE TRICK ever since I started playing in the 70's once you learn THE TRICK they become much easier.
Try soloing to max level in EQ back in 2000.
What? You cant? You say it's too hard?
Yeah, I thought so.
You are confusing a tedious / time consuming activity with challenge.
Wrong. A challenging task merely takes longer to complete than most easy ones.
So according to you challege is somethign that just takes more time? challenge should be in the activity itself and not time based. For example only because you run from point A to B in 20 minutes everytime doesn't men it is a challenge..it is just mind numbingly boring.
This thread is actually confusing 'dumb' with 'grindy'.
Games are a lot more complex now then it was before back in EQ days.
From a mechanical point of view, WoW raid bosses now are leaps more complex than anything EQ had back in the day.
However, EQ was a lot more 'grindy'.
I always wonder why MMO players confuse 'grindy' with 'hard' but meh, facts are facts.
yeah definitely agree with this, as i look back on my days in EQ1 i don't exactly remember a challenging game i remember a tedious one that elongated itself with crappy mechanics and gameplay.
here spend 30 minutes riding on a boat - ooo challenging
spend 20 minutes on regening - thats hard to do.
hey you need this boss to drop this item to complete your quest? well the boss is dead easy but only has a .5% chance to drop the item you need and it only drops one so hope you're not the only one in your guild that needs it.
kill 100000 of the same basic AI mob in order to level
sorry none of that is CHALLENGING ... its tedious as all hell but hardly challenging.
As opposd to every class being a solo god?
The challenge is relative for sure.
And what isn't "dumber" about everyone being given everything right away as opposed to having to earn it?
what does my post have to do with soloing? even in these "dumbed down" games i am almost always grouped sorry you need a game to force people to play with you.
Your post has everything to do with soloing. You were talking about difficulty, yes? You said old games weren't more difficult, they just took longer, no?
You really don't see the correlation? Obviously the more difficult task is the one that requires help from others to perform. You may always be in a group, but you could still reach max level without them. The same doesn't hold true for older games.
Originally posted by Superduper69
Originally posted by FrostWyrm
Originally posted by Superduper69
Originally posted by FrostWyrm
Originally posted by Calerxes
You are confusing a tedious / time consuming activity with challenge.
Wrong. A challenging task merely takes longer to complete than most easy ones.
So according to you challege is somethign that just takes more time? challenge should be in the activity itself and not time based. For example only because you run from point A to B in 20 minutes everytime doesn't men it is a challenge..it is just mind numbingly boring.
No, challenging tasks take longer to accomplish. I meant exactly what I said, and it largely holds true. There really is no more simple way to explain that. I dont know if you're trying to twist my words around, of if you're still just confused about what that means. Either way I guess it can't be helped.
No, challenging tasks take longer to accomplish. I meant exactly what I said, and it largely holds true. There really is no more simple way to explain that. I dont know if you're trying to twist my words around, of if you're still just confused about what that means. Either way I guess it can't be helped.
This section of your post doesn't make sense.
By this logic a race course tha'ts goes in a circle but long is more 'challenging' than a race course that has lots of turns but shorter. lolwut??!
it isn't a difficult concept, Challenge = / = Grindy
Gdemami - Informing people about your thoughts and impressions is not a review, it's a blog.
This thread is actually confusing 'dumb' with 'grindy'.
Games are a lot more complex now then it was before back in EQ days.
From a mechanical point of view, WoW raid bosses now are leaps more complex than anything EQ had back in the day.
However, EQ was a lot more 'grindy'.
I always wonder why MMO players confuse 'grindy' with 'hard' but meh, facts are facts.
WoW also give you everything in the world you posible could need without much effort, WoW allows addon which basicly tell the person how to do a fight for example message pops up it means everyone runs to x position and so on basicly WoW = if you dont miss a message pop up with a warning you cant wipe unless you dont beat enrage timer, oulder games didnt give you everything which made them funner imo, WoW i found realy boring and repeative because it literaly told you how to play the game from lvling up (following where the quests take you) to raid (where the system raid message wardning that pops up in the mid of the screen tell you what you need to do to advoid it)
I think they are sped up more than dumbed down (mostly). The college/highschool kids that had spare time to play those games for 12 hours a pop have families now and don't have the time to invest anymore. The ones that still have that kind of time. . . most likely prefer the game to a girlfriend anyway. (my tongue was firmly planted in my cheek for this one)
I think that another reason for the negative view on today's games (and gamers, for that matter) is because: Player X spent his entire early 20's building the most leet EQ player on the planet - and now, nobody cares. They feel like their time was wasted and they want to feel "leet" again.
I'm a hypocrite when it comes to this subject because I pride myself in being a gamer with discriminating tastes that recognizes and appreciates the complexity and time investment needed to truly appreciate my accomplishments - but I also want to feel like I'm accomplishing something if I only have an hour to play. Ah, the balance between RL and gaming is a teeter-totter of torture at times.
To be challenging a task must arouse interest. A task most people give up out of simple boredom is not challenging to them it's just boring. While overcoming boredom can be challenging for some people it's largely just a matter of motivation. Spawn camping a mob for weeks until a particular item drops doesn't challenge me. You may find it to be the ultimate expression of gaming goodness.It's such a personal concept it's nearly worthless when talking about anything except extremely broad generalities or specific personal preferences. Broadly insufficient people found grinding specific mobs challenging and the genre moved on to other ways of challenging people. Most of which I also find boring as hell.
I can agree with that, however, it wasn't just the number of monsters that needed to be killed to advance that made those games more difficult than the games of today, it was the fight itself. There was far less room for error. A fight with an even-leveled monster was actually somewhat even-leveled strength. In more modern-day games, its not uncommon for players to down scores of creatures bigger than them, often several at once.
In EQ, for example, if you didn't watch yourself, and you pulled an add by mistake, it more often meant the difference between victory and defeat, unless you were able to run to the safety of a guard or a zone line. Today you don't need to worry so much about that kind of situation, because in most cases you can still kill the add without much added effort.
Tedium would be the difference between WoW at level 10 vs WoW at level 70. In that case the difficulty really is the same, and it just takes longer.
WoW also give you everything in the world you posible could need without much effort, WoW allows addon which basicly tell the person how to do a fight for example message pops up it means everyone runs to x position and so on basicly WoW = if you dont miss a message pop up with a warning you cant wipe unless you dont beat enrage timer, oulder games didnt give you everything which made them funner imo, WoW i found realy boring and repeative because it literaly told you how to play the game from lvling up (following where the quests take you) to raid (where the system raid message wardning that pops up in the mid of the screen tell you what you need to do to advoid it)
So you got some 3rd party addon that made the game easier and you are complaining that it is too easy. Am I following this right?
That's one twisted logic there. o_O
Gdemami - Informing people about your thoughts and impressions is not a review, it's a blog.
This thread is actually confusing 'dumb' with 'grindy'.
Games are a lot more complex now then it was before back in EQ days.
From a mechanical point of view, WoW raid bosses now are leaps more complex than anything EQ had back in the day.
However, EQ was a lot more 'grindy'.
I always wonder why MMO players confuse 'grindy' with 'hard' but meh, facts are facts.
yeah definitely agree with this, as i look back on my days in EQ1 i don't exactly remember a challenging game i remember a tedious one that elongated itself with crappy mechanics and gameplay.
here spend 30 minutes riding on a boat - ooo challenging
spend 20 minutes on regening - thats hard to do.
hey you need this boss to drop this item to complete your quest? well the boss is dead easy but only has a .5% chance to drop the item you need and it only drops one so hope you're not the only one in your guild that needs it.
kill 100000 of the same basic AI mob in order to level
sorry none of that is CHALLENGING ... its tedious as all hell but hardly challenging.
As opposd to every class being a solo god?
The challenge is relative for sure.
And what isn't "dumber" about everyone being given everything right away as opposed to having to earn it?
what does my post have to do with soloing? even in these "dumbed down" games i am almost always grouped sorry you need a game to force people to play with you.
Your post has everything to do with soloing. You were talking about difficulty, yes? You said old games weren't more difficult, they just took longer, no?
You really don't see the correlation? Obviously the more difficult task is the one that requires help from others to perform. You may always be in a group, but you could still reach max level without them. The same doesn't hold true for older games.
wait, what? the need for more people doesn't mean something is challenging i have played many single player games that required more effort more strategy much more hand eye coordination than EQ1. just requiring more than one person does not equal "challenging" it just simply means you need more than one person.
but i guess if i didn't spend 5 hours spamming LFG i didn't "earn it" right?
but i guess if i didn't spend 5 hours spamming LFG i didn't "earn it" right?
If you had to spend 5 hours spamming lfg in the older mmos you were doing something wrong. It could have been several things ranging from being a poor player to being a loner and not making friends or interacting within the community.
Besides you act as if all there was in EQ was grouping and killing mobs? You could work on factions, farm stuff for tradeskills to sell (or work on your own) etc
Comments
what does my post have to do with soloing? even in these "dumbed down" games i am almost always grouped sorry you need a game to force people to play with you.
yeah people like to get rewarded for their efforts ... holy crap what a concept, even in jobs it works like this, you show up to your job and put in the hours ... you're "rewarded" in terms of being paid for doing so ... but a GAME should be different?
I know its a crazy concept to some of you "old schoolers" but if I down a raid mob with my guild or hell a random pug, I DID EARN IT and should be given the update for my quest.
Maybe?
This reminded me of a story.
So when we first were marketed washing machines, we were told of how much time we would save, how we would be free to sit around and read books and have more free time than ever before.
Every innovation leads us to believe we'll have more free time, more freedom, and we wind up finding more things that need doing. There is always a group that tells us it will make us all lazy and weak and make us lack imagination, yet every time we continue to progress and make new discoveries.
I'm optimistic.
Oh and OP I don't think they're dumbing down MMOs because we're some how becoming more and more stupid. They are trying to lower the bar to the lowest common denominator, the more potential people you have in your audience, then the greater your potential earnings. Money talks.
Maybe I'm not an optimist :-(
He probably thinks that to "earn" it, you have to do content countless times, or win a RNG roll. This is not earning anything, it's grind or luck. I hope MMO find better ways to not count on the RNG or grinding (tokens/commendation grind) in order to reward players.
Yes, games will keep getting dumbed down the more popular they become. It already is. Look at SWTOR. Though it's still hysterical when WoW players, playing the most simple and casual MMO on the market, complain about something getting dumbed down.
See at least with EQ, that game was hard compared to everything else. If you're playing WoW, you're NOT playing for the difficulty, so why complain? If you really wanted a harder game, you wouldn't be playing WoW, you know?
Something to be said for this.
While I was waiting for a good mmo ie GW2, it's funny in about 1yr+ my take on games has changed considerably. There's potential in this genre that's waiting to diffuse:
This is what you can do in EVE.
http://www.gdcvault.com/play/1014633/Classic-Game-Postmortem
That's something I noticed too, especially in the city. It's kinda eerie being in a waiting room full of people with absolutely no sound except for them tapping on their phones.
"I have only two out of my company and 20 out of some other company. We need support, but it is almost suicide to try to get it here as we are swept by machine gun fire and a constant barrage is on us. I have no one on my left and only a few on my right. I will hold." (First Lieutenant Clifton B. Cates, US Marine Corps, Soissons, 19 July 1918)
Man I am quite amused by the way that some people seem to extrapolate their own perception of "intelligence".
20 years ago computer games was mostly something that "geeks" were developing for an audience of likeminded "geeks." Worked well because the producers and the audience basically had the same mindset.
Guess what? Technology advanced and a lot of people with different mindsets showed up as PC-owners. Every "geek" developer can spot the difference between appealing to 100 fellow "geeks" vs. 1000's of "the rest". Is this "bad"? Not in my book - Along with all the regular people and the incredible amount of content (including games) being provided, I constantly find that my options have expanded.
I can choose to play a "hard" game ("Hard" being the time I invest in learning the mechanics or the accepting the RNG in the game) or I can choose to play something that provides instant fun, not only to me but also to kids I got while humanity struggled through the PC-geek period.
Sure, Lineage 2 was fun "back then" - But a few years passed and today I have much more fun playing a few hours of an incredybli "dumbed down" game with my tween/teen kids: Dungeon Defenders.
My "fun" == My money! Keep me going in there == More money!
Go ahead, be:
intelligent and boring = $ n/100
Simplistic and boring = $ n (More people around - someone will eventually bite)
Simple and fun = $ nn
Simple, fun and building societies = $ nnn (The WoW factor)
intelligent and fun = $ nnn (Think "easy to learn, hard to master")
intelligent, fun and building societies = $ "Sky's the limit"
intelligent, boring and building societies = $ back to #1 + a few strange people looking for attention.
"Intelligence" is a number of things. Whatever you seek, it is bound to be out there in some form, but it is probably quite "niche" :-)
We dont need casuals in our games!!! Errm... Well we DO need casuals to fund and populate our games - But the games should be all about "hardcore" because: We dont need casuals in our games!!!
(repeat ad infinitum)
Dumb down who cares as long you have fun intelligent or not thats what count. You can throw whatever theory on the dumb down matter you want, its not importend at all.
There are plenty of choices out there in different difficultys choose whatever you like.
If you dont like easy games don't buy them its simple as that, go play chess instead ok:)
Hope to build full AMD system RYZEN/VEGA/AM4!!!
MB:Asus V De Luxe z77
CPU:Intell Icore7 3770k
GPU: AMD Fury X(waiting for BIG VEGA 10 or 11 HBM2?(bit unclear now))
MEMORY:Corsair PLAT.DDR3 1866MHZ 16GB
PSU:Corsair AX1200i
OS:Windows 10 64bit
So according to you challege is somethign that just takes more time? challenge should be in the activity itself and not time based. For example only because you run from point A to B in 20 minutes everytime doesn't men it is a challenge..it is just mind numbingly boring.
Your post has everything to do with soloing. You were talking about difficulty, yes? You said old games weren't more difficult, they just took longer, no?
You really don't see the correlation? Obviously the more difficult task is the one that requires help from others to perform. You may always be in a group, but you could still reach max level without them. The same doesn't hold true for older games.
No, challenging tasks take longer to accomplish. I meant exactly what I said, and it largely holds true. There really is no more simple way to explain that. I dont know if you're trying to twist my words around, of if you're still just confused about what that means. Either way I guess it can't be helped.
This section of your post doesn't make sense.
By this logic a race course tha'ts goes in a circle but long is more 'challenging' than a race course that has lots of turns but shorter. lolwut??!
it isn't a difficult concept, Challenge = / = Grindy
Gdemami -
Informing people about your thoughts and impressions is not a review, it's a blog.
WoW also give you everything in the world you posible could need without much effort, WoW allows addon which basicly tell the person how to do a fight for example message pops up it means everyone runs to x position and so on basicly WoW = if you dont miss a message pop up with a warning you cant wipe unless you dont beat enrage timer, oulder games didnt give you everything which made them funner imo, WoW i found realy boring and repeative because it literaly told you how to play the game from lvling up (following where the quests take you) to raid (where the system raid message wardning that pops up in the mid of the screen tell you what you need to do to advoid it)
I think they are sped up more than dumbed down (mostly). The college/highschool kids that had spare time to play those games for 12 hours a pop have families now and don't have the time to invest anymore. The ones that still have that kind of time. . . most likely prefer the game to a girlfriend anyway. (my tongue was firmly planted in my cheek for this one)
I think that another reason for the negative view on today's games (and gamers, for that matter) is because: Player X spent his entire early 20's building the most leet EQ player on the planet - and now, nobody cares. They feel like their time was wasted and they want to feel "leet" again.
I'm a hypocrite when it comes to this subject because I pride myself in being a gamer with discriminating tastes that recognizes and appreciates the complexity and time investment needed to truly appreciate my accomplishments - but I also want to feel like I'm accomplishing something if I only have an hour to play. Ah, the balance between RL and gaming is a teeter-totter of torture at times.
I can agree with that, however, it wasn't just the number of monsters that needed to be killed to advance that made those games more difficult than the games of today, it was the fight itself. There was far less room for error. A fight with an even-leveled monster was actually somewhat even-leveled strength. In more modern-day games, its not uncommon for players to down scores of creatures bigger than them, often several at once.
In EQ, for example, if you didn't watch yourself, and you pulled an add by mistake, it more often meant the difference between victory and defeat, unless you were able to run to the safety of a guard or a zone line. Today you don't need to worry so much about that kind of situation, because in most cases you can still kill the add without much added effort.
Tedium would be the difference between WoW at level 10 vs WoW at level 70. In that case the difficulty really is the same, and it just takes longer.
So you got some 3rd party addon that made the game easier and you are complaining that it is too easy. Am I following this right?
That's one twisted logic there. o_O
Gdemami -
Informing people about your thoughts and impressions is not a review, it's a blog.
The lesser the intellectual challenge, the lesser the need to smarten the Hell up.
wait, what? the need for more people doesn't mean something is challenging i have played many single player games that required more effort more strategy much more hand eye coordination than EQ1. just requiring more than one person does not equal "challenging" it just simply means you need more than one person.
but i guess if i didn't spend 5 hours spamming LFG i didn't "earn it" right?
If you had to spend 5 hours spamming lfg in the older mmos you were doing something wrong. It could have been several things ranging from being a poor player to being a loner and not making friends or interacting within the community.
Besides you act as if all there was in EQ was grouping and killing mobs? You could work on factions, farm stuff for tradeskills to sell (or work on your own) etc