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Trait System - Future Expandability?
acidblood
Member RarePosts: 878
In thinking about and discussing the trait system of late it occurs to me that all other issues aside, how the hell are they going to expand this thing? I mean they are going to want to add more skills eventually, so it only makes sense that they would want to add more traits, even if it's only to fill a gap in the existing lineups, but...
Do they create a new tree... then they would have to invent new stats, or double up on existing ones and that's just all kinds of messy. And they couldn't just add 1 new trait, they would have to add 3 new minor and 12 new major ones, and do it for each class so as not to create imbalance.
Do they extend the existing trees... cleaner, but they would still have to add at least 5 new traits (1 for each tree) for each class at the same time, otherwise things are going to start getting lopsided. Then there's the issue of escalation of stats (i.e. longer trees = extra points in linked stats), not to mention the need to put at least 31 points in the tree to access the new trait (assuming the trees aren't rearranged, which would mess with peoples current builds = unhappy campers).
Basically I don't see how they can do it... I guess they could hold off till an expansion (fits the buy to play model well), but even then I don't see it being especially neat... I mean they can't really raise the level cap (which would force people to buy the expansion, and that doesn't fit well with buy to play), so either people become more and more specialised with longer trees / duplicate stats in new trees, or they start inventing new stats with each expansion.
The only other option I can think of is that they leave the system as is (i.e. 5 trees with 30 points in each) and just change out some of the traits from time to time (i.e. each expansion)... but that's pretty boring and nothing pisses people off (especailly MMOs players) more than taking away their favorite toy.
Is it just me or have they built themselves a neat little house of cards, and they better pray the wind doesn't start blowing or they are up a certain creek with half a surfboard and no paddle?
Edit: Also posted later in thread but...
Ok, slight misunderstanding of the trait system on my part, the way I read it you unlocked major traits (not just the slots) as you put more points into a tree.. my bad. This does make it a bit easier for them to expand, but still has the problem of needing to add 5 new traits (1 for each tree) to each class at the same time to maintain equal customisation options between classes / specs.
However in a way this also makes the 'trait' system even worse... it's more like a stat allocation system except we do it in 2 lots of 10 instead of 1 point at a time... why would you ever go anything but a mod 5 = 0 build (and make up any stat differences with gear)?
They may as well just give us the choice of one of 5 minor traits every X5 level and unlock a major trait slot every X0 level (X = 1, 2, 3 .. 7), kinda like the new WoW system... sounds far simpler and gives at least as many, and in some cases more (for mod 5 != 0 builds) customisation options... or is the system supposed to be restrictive and allow for so many bad builds by design?
Comments
They can just add more Major traits which increases options without upsetting balance too much.
And also alot of the traits influence effects, or skill categories. both covers nicely the addition of new skills, with out changing anything about traits.
I think they mainly will add more traits you cn choose from.
Making new trees for old classes is work they could put into making new trees for new classes instead.
I'd rather see them expand options (major traits, weapons, healing/utility/elite skills) for old classes than add new classes, for the sake of balance and uniqueness of each profession.
i am sure they will add more skills to choose from.I hope they make more weapons for existing classes as well, but I don´t really care about new trees.
A new class or 2 for each expansion sounds more fun to me. That doesn´t mean that the new classes just should be slightly different copies of old classes.
It's extremely easy to imagine how.
If the level cap doesn't increase, you just add more traits in each traitline to chose from. If they do raise the level cap, they just add another tier to each trait line, along with the new traits.
Want to know more about GW2 and why there is so much buzz? Start here: Guild Wars 2 Mass Info for the Uninitiated
One or two professions for each expansion? Seeing how much trouble Anet had with balancing the expansion professions in GW1 (outside of a few overpowered gimmicky builds they were hardly ever used in high end GvG) and seeing that Blizzard had trouble with balancing just one new class in all of WoW's lifetime, I hope that if they ever add new professions it will be at a rate of less than one profession for each expansion.
And niether of those 2 games share the same skill system as GW2, to be a good comparison.
It's possible we might get a new profession every once in a while with a full expansion. However, it may just be better to add a new weapon and a few new skills for each existing profession, in order to reflect the influence of new cultures that come along with the expansions. The additional flavor could be fairly significant. while still fitting with in the current professions, but it would still be mostly a question of flavor, which would make balancing a lot easier.
Want to know more about GW2 and why there is so much buzz? Start here: Guild Wars 2 Mass Info for the Uninitiated
It doesn't matter. The point is that the initial classes that come with a game are carefully balanced with each other and with the combat system in general. Any class that is released at a later point will not have that benefit.
Besides, it is a matter of logic that the more classes you have the harder it is to balance and the harder it is to keep each class unique in terms of flavor and gameplay.
Ok, slight misunderstanding of the trait system on my part, the way I read it you unlocked major traits (not just the slots) as you put more points into a tree.. my bad. This does make it a bit easier for them to expand, but still has the problem of needing to add 5 new traits (1 for each tree) to each class at the same time to maintain equal customisation options between classes / specs.
However in a way this also makes the 'trait' system even worse... it's more like a stat allocation system except we do it in 2 lots of 10 instead of 1 point at a time... why would you ever go anything but a mod 5 = 0 build (and make up any stat differences with gear)?
They may as well just give us the choice of one of 5 minor traits every X5 level and unlock a major trait slot every X0 level (X = 1, 2, 3 .. 7), kinda like the new WoW system... sounds far simpler and gives at least as many, and in some cases more (for mod 5 != 0 builds) customisation options... or is the system supposed to be restrictive and allow for so many bad builds by design?
Going from 12 traits in each tree to 13 to 14 to 15 increases the number of trait builds from 313 million to 574 million to 1 billion to 1.6 billion.
Which when combined with the 1.3 million skill builds you have, increases the total number of profession builds from 400 trillion to 750 trillion to 1.3 quadrillion to 2.2 quadrillion.
You're right, it won't upset balance. There won't have been any to start.
"Gamers will no longer buy the argument that every MMO requires a subscription fee to offset server and bandwidth costs. It's not true you know it, and they know it." -Jeff Strain, co-founder of ArenaNet, 2007
Going on GW1's past.. its likely to see when new classes are introduced that it will be done in 2's. That being said... My favorite toon was the Monk, really got sad face when I found out way back when that this class wouldnt make the cut. So, I would really love to see one of the new classes to come to be a Monk... and seeing there is no dedicated healer class anymore... make the new monk more like the EQ1 monk. Back story of something like through hard times the monk had to rely less on healing and more on surviving/fighting. I dunno. EQ1 monk was my favorite class across any MMO and Ive played pretty much all of them.
they will sure add more traits or skills its just a matter of time.