have to laugh at all the people who are chiming in the "subjective" term, of course it is but it's also RIGHT, it's a large area. try walking across that with your toon, there ain't no flying mounts in this game baby!
you are welcome. I don't really see why the thread had to turn into another argument. I just wanted to share this to people who might not have seen it yet...
[and I want to reiterate that the map isn't of my making. just saw it on reddit]
This isn't going to turn into another swtor "Ever zone is the size of a WoW continent" thing is it? Because I thought swtor's zone sizes were fine - but it was yet another area that failed to live up to hype which leads to disapointment.
You can't really tell anything from a world map. They could even put a scale on it and then slap it up against other world maps and it still would mean nothing, since the distance in a game can only be measured by the time it takes to travel it.
Well, the thing to remember is that with this map, the devs haven't made any claims. This is ultimately the most important thing to keep in mind when you think about GW2 hype: are the devs making claims that they can't follow through on?
In this case, all we have is the map and some observations abou proportion (map size vs. character size and scale). Nobody's put it up against other MMO world sizes (yet) or made claims about how long it takes to traverse. Where's the hype? Where's the misleading info?
In other words, don't get your hype alarms running just yet. We aren't in the red zone, relax.
It is subjective and it is not really huge. The map actually shows four zones, not one. And of course as the name suggests you have to zone between them. And you can't access the greyish part between the maps.
So it's not huge. If it is sufficient depends on the number of players actually in those zones. And that depends on fun factor of W v W and how many players the engine can handle at all. And here we enter the gates of pure speculation....
have to laugh at all the people who are chiming in the "subjective" term, of course it is but it's also RIGHT, it's a large area. try walking across that with your toon, there ain't no flying mounts in this game baby!
That's exactly what I was thinking . . . there are no mounts. By the time you get to where the action was, the action is somewhere else. Unless there are insta-ports to the different areas of the map, which then nullify any reason for the map to be big. I dunno, we'll wait and see.
yap thats one awesome thing about guildwars 2 the maps are very big.
How....? Did you play it? Bah.... again pointless, THIS IS VERY SUBJECTIVE.
I think you're mixing up the definitions of objective and subjective.
You see, if he had played the game and then told us "the maps felt huge" then that would be subjective. It's a statement based on his "feel" for the game without any hard facts to back it up. Subjective.
But if you provided some hard evidence like you know...a screenshot of the map and then several screenshots indicating the scale of the map, then that would be objective.
Maybe it's "subjective" to proclaim the maps as "big" but there really is no question as the their size. And they are definitely "big" when compared to just about any other MMORPG's PvP areas.
This isn't going to turn into another swtor "Ever zone is the size of a WoW continent" thing is it? Because I thought swtor's zone sizes were fine - but it was yet another area that failed to live up to hype which leads to disapointment.
You can't really tell anything from a world map. They could even put a scale on it and then slap it up against other world maps and it still would mean nothing, since the distance in a game can only be measured by the time it takes to travel it.
Well, the thing to remember is that with this map, the devs haven't made any claims. This is ultimately the most important thing to keep in mind when you think about GW2 hype: are the devs making claims that they can't follow through on?
In this case, all we have is the map and some observations abou proportion (map size vs. character size and scale). Nobody's put it up against other MMO world sizes (yet) or made claims about how long it takes to traverse. Where's the hype? Where's the misleading info?
In other words, don't get your hype alarms running just yet. We aren't in the red zone, relax.
This is true, but I researched where the hype about swtor size came from before I did my review on the game and it turns out it was entirely driven by the game forums. The only thing that came out of Bioware was that Alderaan would be the size of about 8 WoW zones, which is absolutely true. That is also nowhere near the size of the original WoW continents and Alderaan is far larger than most other swtor zones. It's the fans that began speculating and many of the quotes from certain blog owners and such were circulated so much that people thought they were true.
My only point is that you really can tell nothing from a map. This is probably an area that is best not to speculate too much because it can so easily lead to unwarranted disapointment.
What I think is even more interesting is that people from 224 different countries applied for beta from all 7 continents, and then we have people saying that it wont sell more than 500k of boxes, something tells me that those who said that will be eating their hats.
Dont get me wrong, I'm not saying this is going to be the biggest selling MMO ever to hit the market, as those people are only showing interest, and again those people could be turned off depending how the Beta lives up to peoples expectations. But I will not be surprised if its a very close second.
As to the maps they are big, and there 25 pve maps (if my memory serves me correct) around the size of the Barrens if you ever played WoW.
The larger the zone is, the more likely that "keep trading" is going to occur since you may not ever even run into the other team if the zone is so large. I hope that its size is tuned correctly to the amount of people that will typically be participating in WvW.
Because really, being "so huge" is not always a good thing. You don't want the zone to be too big or too small...you want it to be just right.
What I think is even more interesting is that people from 224 different countries applied for beta from all 7 continents, and then we have people saying that it wont sell more than 500k of boxes, something tells me that those who said that will be eating their hats.
Dont get me wrong, I'm not saying this is going to be the biggest selling MMO ever to hit the market, as those people are only showing interest, and again those people could be turned off depending how the Beta lives up to peoples expectations. But I will not be surprised if its a very close second.
As to the maps they are big, and there 25 pve maps (if my memory serves me correct) around the size of the Barrens if you ever played WoW.
Seriously, Antarctica as well?
I told you the penguins were an under-severd demographic.
I want a mmorpg where people have gone through misery, have gone through school stuff and actually have had sex even. -sagil
This is the Wvw map. Not so impressive considering it's purpose. I mean it's great. But it's not an accurate representation of the entire game world. Also, yes you could have not reposted it.
Yep. Good size for WvW, but if the open world is this size, it'll even be smaller than Rift. Gonna give Anet the benefit of the doubt on this one.
There's already an image of the World Map. Just watch any of the Norn toturial vids to can an idea of huge large that instance is, or better yet, watch this vid to get an idea of how large the zones tend to be and then you'll can an idea of the sense of scale.
That world map does not include Elona/Cantha, so the map size isn't as big as the whole original Guild Wars + campaigns, it's just Prophecies + Eye of the North.
No, I don't consider that to be bad, the world size from these 2 games alone looks enough to me, especially if they are using more of the land mass this time instead of using only the same small part of the world map as playable land mass (small when compared to the whole map). And this time it's all mostly open world, so it's going to feel a LOT bigger.
yap thats one awesome thing about guildwars 2 the maps are very big.
How....? Did you play it? Bah.... again pointless, THIS IS VERY SUBJECTIVE.
I think you're mixing up the definitions of objective and subjective.
You see, if he had played the game and then told us "the maps felt huge" then that would be subjective. It's a statement based on his "feel" for the game without any hard facts to back it up. Subjective.
But if you provided some hard evidence like you know...a screenshot of the map and then several screenshots indicating the scale of the map, then that would be objective.
Maybe it's "subjective" to proclaim the maps as "big" but there really is no question as the their size. And they are definitely "big" when compared to just about any other MMORPG's PvP areas.
While i agree with you, i don't think subjectivity and objectivity are necessarily mutually exclusive. Yes, we may agree that map X is bigger compared to map Y on an objective level. However, whether map X does indeed feel bigger than map Y is an entirely subjective matter.
But yea whatever...to me the map looks huge and that's all that matters (to me)
What I think is even more interesting is that people from 224 different countries applied for beta from all 7 continents, and then we have people saying that it wont sell more than 500k of boxes, something tells me that those who said that will be eating their hats.
Dont get me wrong, I'm not saying this is going to be the biggest selling MMO ever to hit the market, as those people are only showing interest, and again those people could be turned off depending how the Beta lives up to peoples expectations. But I will not be surprised if its a very close second.
As to the maps they are big, and there 25 pve maps (if my memory serves me correct) around the size of the Barrens if you ever played WoW.
Seriously, Antarctica as well?
I told you the penguins were an under-severd demographic.
Note to ArenaNet, put tuxedos in the cash shop
"Gamers will no longer buy the argument that every MMO requires a subscription fee to offset server and bandwidth costs. It's not true you know it, and they know it."-Jeff Strain, co-founder of ArenaNet, 2007
I wonder if my RL height is actually subjective, and I can actually claim that I'm any size that I want to claim I am?
Some people...
You get a sense of scale from the character and the buildings, you can then use knowledge of past games to understand how that translates to the map. And when looking at the overworld map, it's simply massive. Sure, that may be subjective on some level, but... the kind of people who'd say that it's entirely subjective, or worse, that it's actually small are likely the kind of people who'd tell you that Saturn is most likely a tiny planet that they could fit in their back yard.
Colin Johanson From a sheer content perspective, volume of game space and stuff you can do, the first Guild Wars with all the expansion packs is about the same size as Guild Wars 2 will be on release its massive. When the first one came out, before any of the expansions, there were 60 designers working on it, we now have 270 who are 100 per cent focused on building Guild Wars 2.
And Guild Wars 1 was so much bigger than most other games, especially WoW, that I feel like you are horribly misinformed on this subject.
"There are two great powers, and they've been fighting since time began. Every advance in human life, every scrap of knowledge and wisdom and decency we have has been torn by one side from the teeth of the other. Every little increase in human freedom has been fought over ferociously between those who want us to know more and be wiser and stronger, and those who want us to obey and be humble and submit."
John Parry, to his son Will; "The Subtle Knife," by Phillip Pullman
From a sheer content perspective, volume of game space and stuff you can do, the first Guild Wars with all the expansion packs is about the same size as Guild Wars 2 will be on release – it’s massive. When the first one came out, before any of the expansions, there were 60 designers working on it, we now have 270 who are 100 per cent focused on building Guild Wars 2.
And Guild Wars 1 was so much bigger than most other games, especially WoW, that I feel like you are horribly misinformed on this subject.
Did you even look at the links? MMOMAVERICK is generally respected for his World size computations.
How does having more designers change the linked dimensions?
This link on the computations and comparisons might help you out.
From a sheer content perspective, volume of game space and stuff you can do, the first Guild Wars with all the expansion packs is about the same size as Guild Wars 2 will be on release – it’s massive. When the first one came out, before any of the expansions, there were 60 designers working on it, we now have 270 who are 100 per cent focused on building Guild Wars 2.
And Guild Wars 1 was so much bigger than most other games, especially WoW, that I feel like you are horribly misinformed on this subject.
Did you even look at the links? MMOMAVERICK is generally respected for his World size computations.
How does having more designers change the linked dimensions?
This link on the computations and comparisons might help you out.
But at the same time, "size isn't everything." Darkfall (Agon) was listed on there, and that world is definilte huge. But it's also filled with largely nothing. Just mile wide expanses of...expanse. Same with Asheron's Call (Dereth).
I've heard that some of the larger planets in SWTOR are like this as well. HUGE planets, but not much content.
From a sheer content perspective, volume of game space and stuff you can do, the first Guild Wars with all the expansion packs is about the same size as Guild Wars 2 will be on release its massive. When the first one came out, before any of the expansions, there were 60 designers working on it, we now have 270 who are 100 per cent focused on building Guild Wars 2.
And Guild Wars 1 was so much bigger than most other games, especially WoW, that I feel like you are horribly misinformed on this subject.
Did you even look at the links? MMOMAVERICK is generally respected for his World size computations.
How does having more designers change the linked dimensions?
This link on the computations and comparisons might help you out.
But at the same time, "size isn't everything." Darkfall (Agon) was listed on there, and that world is definilte huge. But it's also filled with largely nothing. Just mile wide expanses of...expanse. Same with Asheron's Call (Dereth).
I've heard that some of the larger planets in SWTOR are like this as well. HUGE planets, but not much content.
I was wondering this aswell it'd be interesting if where to use in game maps. Like some games are smaller if you bring up areas your able to go to. I notice in some games the map of the entire area is huge because they include everything even if it has no use and won't be a use in game. I think sizes would be a bit different if it was based on where he or should could go and what they can do within that map.
I might get banned for this. - Rizel Star.
I'm not afraid to tell trolls what they [need] to hear, even if that means for me to have an forced absence afterwards.
P2P LOGIC = If it's P2P it means longevity, overall better game, and THE BEST SUPPORT EVER!!!!!(Which has been rinsed and repeated about a thousand times)
Common Sense Logic = P2P logic is no better than F2P Logic.
Comments
have to laugh at all the people who are chiming in the "subjective" term, of course it is but it's also RIGHT, it's a large area. try walking across that with your toon, there ain't no flying mounts in this game baby!
is stealing your phrase for the "T" word
hope you don't mind.
you are welcome. I don't really see why the thread had to turn into another argument. I just wanted to share this to people who might not have seen it yet...
[and I want to reiterate that the map isn't of my making. just saw it on reddit]
Well, the thing to remember is that with this map, the devs haven't made any claims. This is ultimately the most important thing to keep in mind when you think about GW2 hype: are the devs making claims that they can't follow through on?
In this case, all we have is the map and some observations abou proportion (map size vs. character size and scale). Nobody's put it up against other MMO world sizes (yet) or made claims about how long it takes to traverse. Where's the hype? Where's the misleading info?
In other words, don't get your hype alarms running just yet. We aren't in the red zone, relax.
It is subjective and it is not really huge. The map actually shows four zones, not one. And of course as the name suggests you have to zone between them. And you can't access the greyish part between the maps.
So it's not huge. If it is sufficient depends on the number of players actually in those zones. And that depends on fun factor of W v W and how many players the engine can handle at all. And here we enter the gates of pure speculation....
That's exactly what I was thinking . . . there are no mounts. By the time you get to where the action was, the action is somewhere else. Unless there are insta-ports to the different areas of the map, which then nullify any reason for the map to be big. I dunno, we'll wait and see.
I think you're mixing up the definitions of objective and subjective.
You see, if he had played the game and then told us "the maps felt huge" then that would be subjective. It's a statement based on his "feel" for the game without any hard facts to back it up. Subjective.
But if you provided some hard evidence like you know...a screenshot of the map and then several screenshots indicating the scale of the map, then that would be objective.
Maybe it's "subjective" to proclaim the maps as "big" but there really is no question as the their size. And they are definitely "big" when compared to just about any other MMORPG's PvP areas.
Are you team Azeroth, team Tyria, or team Jacob?
This is true, but I researched where the hype about swtor size came from before I did my review on the game and it turns out it was entirely driven by the game forums. The only thing that came out of Bioware was that Alderaan would be the size of about 8 WoW zones, which is absolutely true. That is also nowhere near the size of the original WoW continents and Alderaan is far larger than most other swtor zones. It's the fans that began speculating and many of the quotes from certain blog owners and such were circulated so much that people thought they were true.
My only point is that you really can tell nothing from a map. This is probably an area that is best not to speculate too much because it can so easily lead to unwarranted disapointment.
http://www.youtube.com/flymolo
What I think is even more interesting is that people from 224 different countries applied for beta from all 7 continents, and then we have people saying that it wont sell more than 500k of boxes, something tells me that those who said that will be eating their hats.
source:-
http://us.ncsoft.com/en/news/press-releases/innovative-guild-wars-2-gameplay-piques-gamers-interest.html
Dont get me wrong, I'm not saying this is going to be the biggest selling MMO ever to hit the market, as those people are only showing interest, and again those people could be turned off depending how the Beta lives up to peoples expectations. But I will not be surprised if its a very close second.
As to the maps they are big, and there 25 pve maps (if my memory serves me correct) around the size of the Barrens if you ever played WoW.
This actually concerns me.
The larger the zone is, the more likely that "keep trading" is going to occur since you may not ever even run into the other team if the zone is so large. I hope that its size is tuned correctly to the amount of people that will typically be participating in WvW.
Because really, being "so huge" is not always a good thing. You don't want the zone to be too big or too small...you want it to be just right.
Are you team Azeroth, team Tyria, or team Jacob?
Seriously, Antarctica as well?
I told you the penguins were an under-severd demographic.
I want a mmorpg where people have gone through misery, have gone through school stuff and actually have had sex even. -sagil
Big maps = scouting, intelligence relaying and coordination.
Not exactly a bad thing in my book.
That world map does not include Elona/Cantha, so the map size isn't as big as the whole original Guild Wars + campaigns, it's just Prophecies + Eye of the North.
No, I don't consider that to be bad, the world size from these 2 games alone looks enough to me, especially if they are using more of the land mass this time instead of using only the same small part of the world map as playable land mass (small when compared to the whole map). And this time it's all mostly open world, so it's going to feel a LOT bigger.
While i agree with you, i don't think subjectivity and objectivity are necessarily mutually exclusive. Yes, we may agree that map X is bigger compared to map Y on an objective level. However, whether map X does indeed feel bigger than map Y is an entirely subjective matter.
But yea whatever...to me the map looks huge and that's all that matters (to me)
* Waves at Pushkina *
Note to ArenaNet, put tuxedos in the cash shop
"Gamers will no longer buy the argument that every MMO requires a subscription fee to offset server and bandwidth costs. It's not true you know it, and they know it." -Jeff Strain, co-founder of ArenaNet, 2007
huge + huge + huge + huge = huge
edit:
http://i.imgur.com/IWhAz.jpg
i added a box to show the scale of the middle zoom (approx)
Charr: Outta my way.
Human: What's your problem?
Charr: Your thin skin.
can you put azeroth into that map?
like this
http://www.mmorpg.com/newsroom.cfm/read/16920
Not really GW2 world is only 12.5x12.5 miles - WoW comparison in link
http://www.mmorpg.com/photo/68d4a45e-fe96-44c7-9b13-4bd25de47e78
Older MMOs are FAR larger and SWTOR has a single planet the size of Rift
http://www.mmorpg.com/photo/df70f8fb-e970-4cb4-95d9-0107517c2fc9
I wonder if my RL height is actually subjective, and I can actually claim that I'm any size that I want to claim I am?
Some people...
You get a sense of scale from the character and the buildings, you can then use knowledge of past games to understand how that translates to the map. And when looking at the overworld map, it's simply massive. Sure, that may be subjective on some level, but... the kind of people who'd say that it's entirely subjective, or worse, that it's actually small are likely the kind of people who'd tell you that Saturn is most likely a tiny planet that they could fit in their back yard.
Because, you know, scale is completely subjective.
Some people...
Instead of being mean, I'm just going to link this [url-http://www.bit-tech.net/gaming/2011/09/27/guild-wars-2-developer-interview/1]here[/url].
In that interview, we see this.
And Guild Wars 1 was so much bigger than most other games, especially WoW, that I feel like you are horribly misinformed on this subject.
"There are two great powers, and they've been fighting since time began. Every advance in human life, every scrap of knowledge and wisdom and decency we have has been torn by one side from the teeth of the other. Every little increase in human freedom has been fought over ferociously between those who want us to know more and be wiser and stronger, and those who want us to obey and be humble and submit."
John Parry, to his son Will; "The Subtle Knife," by Phillip Pullman
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xzpndHtdl9A
"Be who you are and say what you feel because those who mind don't matter and those who matter don't mind." -Dr. Seuss
Did you even look at the links? MMOMAVERICK is generally respected for his World size computations.
How does having more designers change the linked dimensions?
This link on the computations and comparisons might help you out.
http://www.mmorpg.com/discussion2.cfm/thread/306052
It's true, and I don't question his work.
But at the same time, "size isn't everything." Darkfall (Agon) was listed on there, and that world is definilte huge. But it's also filled with largely nothing. Just mile wide expanses of...expanse. Same with Asheron's Call (Dereth).
I've heard that some of the larger planets in SWTOR are like this as well. HUGE planets, but not much content.
Are you team Azeroth, team Tyria, or team Jacob?
Different day, same GW2 QQ'ing.
huge + huge + huge + huge = huge
edit:
http://i.imgur.com/IWhAz.jpg
i added a box to show the scale of the middle zoom (approx)
Not really GW2 world is only 12.5x12.5 miles - WoW comparison in link
http://www.mmorpg.com/photo/68d4a45e-fe96-44c7-9b13-4bd25de47e78
Older MMOs are FAR larger and SWTOR has a single planet the size of Rift
http://www.mmorpg.com/photo/df70f8fb-e970-4cb4-95d9-0107517c2fc9
Instead of being mean, I'm just going to link this [url-http://www.bit-tech.net/gaming/2011/09/27/guild-wars-2-developer-interview/1]here[/url].
In that interview, we see this.
[quote]Colin Johanson
From a sheer content perspective, volume of game space and stuff you can do, the first Guild Wars with all the expansion packs is about the same size as Guild Wars 2 will be on release its massive. When the first one came out, before any of the expansions, there were 60 designers working on it, we now have 270 who are 100 per cent focused on building Guild Wars 2.
And Guild Wars 1 was so much bigger than most other games, especially WoW, that I feel like you are horribly misinformed on this subject.
Did you even look at the links? MMOMAVERICK is generally respected for his World size computations.
How does having more designers change the linked dimensions?
This link on the computations and comparisons might help you out.
http://www.mmorpg.com/discussion2.cfm/thread/306052
It's true, and I don't question his work.
But at the same time, "size isn't everything." Darkfall (Agon) was listed on there, and that world is definilte huge. But it's also filled with largely nothing. Just mile wide expanses of...expanse. Same with Asheron's Call (Dereth).
I've heard that some of the larger planets in SWTOR are like this as well. HUGE planets, but not much content.
I was wondering this aswell it'd be interesting if where to use in game maps. Like some games are smaller if you bring up areas your able to go to. I notice in some games the map of the entire area is huge because they include everything even if it has no use and won't be a use in game. I think sizes would be a bit different if it was based on where he or should could go and what they can do within that map.I might get banned for this. - Rizel Star.
I'm not afraid to tell trolls what they [need] to hear, even if that means for me to have an forced absence afterwards.
P2P LOGIC = If it's P2P it means longevity, overall better game, and THE BEST SUPPORT EVER!!!!!(Which has been rinsed and repeated about a thousand times)
Common Sense Logic = P2P logic is no better than F2P Logic.