GW2's small number of active skills = Console ready?

gainesvilleg

Is the primary reason for the limited active skills in GW2 because of a hope for console versions?  It is a brilliant idea if so.  Everything about GW2 seems taylor made for consoles:

1) Limited number of active skills = mappable to buttons on controller

2) No monthly fee = no fights with Microsoft over who gets what cut

3) Weapon switching a key component of play (even changing active skills when you do) very controller ready

4) Expansion packs as means to get additional revenue consistent with console model

I actually think if GW2 came out on the console it would instantly destroy WoW and be the clear number one MMO on the market.  I would be excited by this because some of my best friends only play console games.  Any reason for hope they will do this???

Shroom_Mage

With nothing more than a small team researching the feasibility of a console version, everything you suggested is highly unlikely.

The only chance GW2 has of a console version is a totally separate game like EverQuest Online Adventures.

fiontar

There are more active skills in GW2 than in GW1 and GW1 never was, or was intended to be, ported to consoles. The point being that while this design allows for an easier path to consoles than the common MMO design of having to fit 40-50 hotbar slots on screen for various skills and consumables, the game design was not influenced or hampered by the possibility it might be adapted for consoles some day.

Superduper69

Originally posted by Shroom_Mage

With nothing more than a small team researching the feasibility of a console version, everything you suggested is highly unlikely.



The only chance GW2 has of a console version is a totally separate game like EverQuest Online Adventures.

You know something we don't? or i willt ake that as pure speculation unless you know someone in Anet.

someforumguy

I dont care in general if games are ported to console. The only thing that I find important is that the User Interface is created for PC. What they then change to make it work for console, I dont care. Just keep the PC version untouched.

So if they make games for PC and console, I really want them to have an exclusive team to work on the PC User Interface. No crappy compromise like with DCUO and Skyrim.

gainesvilleg

Originally posted by fiontar

There are more active skills in GW2 than in GW1 and GW1 never was, or was intended to be, ported to consoles. The point being that while this design allows for an easier path to consoles than the common MMO design of having to fit 40-50 hotbar slots on screen for various skills and consumables, the game design was not influenced or hampered by the possibility it might be adapted for consoles some day.

They'd be crazy not to if they could.  I know a number of people that are interested in the concept of an MMO but just don't have any gaming capable PCs.  I think this would be a runaway smash hit on the consoles...

waynejr2

Originally posted by gainesvilleg

Is the primary reason for the limited active skills in GW2 because of a hope for console versions?  It is a brilliant idea if so.  Everything about GW2 seems taylor made for consoles:

1) Limited number of active skills = mappable to buttons on controller

2) No monthly fee = no fights with Microsoft over who gets what cut

3) Weapon switching a key component of play (even changing active skills when you do) very controller ready

4) Expansion packs as means to get additional revenue consistent with console model

I actually think if GW2 came out on the console it would instantly destroy WoW and be the clear number one MMO on the market.  I would be excited by this because some of my best friends only play console games.  Any reason for hope they will do this???

What is the exact correct number of skills that should be in an mmorpg? 

jesusdiamond

3 points

 

1. All mmo's have exploritory groups to look at the viablity of a console version. SWTOR, WOW, Rift have all done the same thing.

2. Only haveing 10 skills does still not lend itself to a controller. Don't forget also you have all the F1-4 key's and all the pve would need to be rebalanced around controller's giving player's slower reaction times and dealing with cumbersome menu's. Much like Dragon Age was/GTA series are much much easier on a pc because of how much better a keyboard  and mouse are.

3. Even if they did implement a console version it would be much much further down the road and what does it really matter? No one who is at all competitive will use a controller. 

I'm highly skeptical that there is even enough money in the console market to make it worth their time to port GW2 over. Console gamers tend to have shorter attention spans and crave games more akin to Gears of war or Halo which are both great games. GW2 no matter how different it is, is still a mmo. Mmo's simply don't lend themselves to the console format well.

drbaltazar

they always had low number of skill!even the way gw2 is it is very console friendly i suspect!

Master10K

Here's some random footage of Guild Wars 1. Look at the hotbar. Is it on console yet?

BadSpock

It was not done in order to be console ready - it was done because that's the way GW1 was and it was/is that way to force players to create builds and experiment (along with weapon swapping)

But, that being said... Yes it does make it easier to port to consoles (in theory) because you have 10 buttons instead of dozens.

 

gainesvilleg

Originally posted by jesusdiamond

I'm highly skeptical that there is even enough money in the console market to make it worth their time to port GW2 over. Console gamers tend to have shorter attention spans and crave games more akin to Gears of war or Halo which are both great games. GW2 no matter how different it is, is still a mmo. Mmo's simply don't lend themselves to the console format well.

This, to be frank, is very backward thinking.  I disagree with almost every word of that paragraph.  Let's break it down:

1) Not enough money in the console market.  I really don't need to comment on this.  But you need to check out revenue by platform and the gaming trends.  WAY more money to be made on consoles.  I know several people that would jump at a console MMO.

2) Console gamers with short attention spans.  LOL.  Ok, then why do many console gamers also play PC games.  I play Civ4 mods, roguelikes, RTS games, many MMO's, etc but I also like the comfort of the console games.  I personally know many people that just don't want to invest in a $1500 gaming PC.  They only have their work laptops but are very much ex pencil&paper gamer types that would love a deep MMO experience.  To be honest, this statement is just PC snobery.  If not for my keyboard/mouse I would want most most of my games to be played in my media room with 80 inch 3d and dolby 7.1

3) MMO's don't lend themselves to the console format.  Nothing inherent to MMO's prevents them to be just as deep or complex on the consoles.  The limitation is the skillbar system and nothing else to be honest.  And I think the GW2 system is very controller friendly.  Also, next generation of xbox/PS are going to have touch screen enabled controllers.  That may put the final dagger into PC gaming when that happens, other than maybe strategy games but who knows maybe even those.

 

Fir3line

would this mean we would have a GW3....GW4...:GW5 every xmas?

gainesvilleg

Originally posted by Fir3line

would this mean we would have a GW3....GW4...:GW5 every xmas?

So GW2 is not planning on additional revenue with expansion packs on a yearly basis?

Unlight

Originally posted by gainesvilleg

Originally posted by fiontar

There are more active skills in GW2 than in GW1 and GW1 never was, or was intended to be, ported to consoles. The point being that while this design allows for an easier path to consoles than the common MMO design of having to fit 40-50 hotbar slots on screen for various skills and consumables, the game design was not influenced or hampered by the possibility it might be adapted for consoles some day.

They'd be crazy not to if they could.  I know a number of people that are interested in the concept of an MMO but just don't have any gaming capable PCs.  I think this would be a runaway smash hit on the consoles...

Only with separate servers.  I think console users will tire quickly of being victimized by other players using a superior control system.  But hey, if ArenaNet can take their money anyway while still preserving the PC strengths, go for it.  Console developers have been shortchanging PC gamers for years.  I'd be happy to see the trend reversed for once.

gainesvilleg

Originally posted by Unlight

Originally posted by gainesvilleg

Originally posted by fiontar

There are more active skills in GW2 than in GW1 and GW1 never was, or was intended to be, ported to consoles. The point being that while this design allows for an easier path to consoles than the common MMO design of having to fit 40-50 hotbar slots on screen for various skills and consumables, the game design was not influenced or hampered by the possibility it might be adapted for consoles some day.

They'd be crazy not to if they could.  I know a number of people that are interested in the concept of an MMO but just don't have any gaming capable PCs.  I think this would be a runaway smash hit on the consoles...

Only with separate servers.  I think console users will tire quickly of being victimized by other players using a superior control system.  But hey, if ArenaNet can take their money anyway while still preserving the PC strengths, go for it.  Console developers have been shortchanging PC gamers for years.  I'd be happy to see the trend reversed for once.

Maybe.  But there is no aiming in GW2 so not sure the advantage will be that great.  No doubt keyboard/mouse is technically better for aiming in an FPS but when everybody uses a controller it is fair again.  But I think it is perfectly fine to have seperate servers for console players why not?  They do that for most games that are cross platform.

jesusdiamond

Originally posted by gainesvilleg

Originally posted by jesusdiamond

I'm highly skeptical that there is even enough money in the console market to make it worth their time to port GW2 over. Console gamers tend to have shorter attention spans and crave games more akin to Gears of war or Halo which are both great games. GW2 no matter how different it is, is still a mmo. Mmo's simply don't lend themselves to the console format well.

This, to be frank, is very backward thinking.  I disagree with almost every word of that paragraph.  Let's break it down:

1) Not enough money in the console market.  I really don't need to comment on this.  But you need to check out revenue by platform and the gaming trends.  WAY more money to be made on consoles.  I know several people that would jump at a console MMO.

2) Console gamers with short attention spans.  LOL.  Ok, then why do many console gamers also play PC games.  I play Civ4 mods, roguelikes, RTS games, many MMO's, etc but I also like the comfort of the console games.  I personally know many people that just don't want to invest in a $1500 gaming PC.  They only have their work laptops but are very much ex pencil&paper gamer types that would love a deep MMO experience.  To be honest, this statement is just PC snobery.  If not for my keyboard/mouse I would want most most of my games to be played in my media room with 80 inch 3d and dolby 7.1

3) MMO's don't lend themselves to the console format.  Nothing inherent to MMO's prevents them to be just as deep or complex on the consoles.  The limitation is the skillbar system and nothing else to be honest.  And I think the GW2 system is very controller friendly.  Also, next generation of xbox/PS are going to have touch screen enabled controllers.  That may put the final dagger into PC gaming when that happens, other than maybe strategy games but who knows maybe even those.

 

I didn't say there is not enough money period in the  console market. I said there is not enough money for a mmo. FULLSTOP

HERE ILL PUT THIS IN CAPS FOR YOU. CONSOLE GAMERS DO HAVE SHORTER ATTENTION SPANS. CONSOLES LEND THEMSELVES TO FPS SHOOTERS. NOTICE THERE ARE VERY VERY VERY FEW RTS GAMES ON THE CONSOLE? 

and mmo's do not lend themselves to a console format. 

ARE YOU GOING TO PLAY A MMO FOR HOURS A DAY IN FRONT OF A TV? HOW IS THAT CHAT GOING BTW? YOU ENJOYING NAVIGATING YOUR INVENTORY WITH A THUMBSTICK?

I hope the caps let you comprehend my previous post.

Unlight

Actually, there is aiming, although people seem to tend to want to tab-select when attacking from range.  Even some skills require a target, like mesmer clones.  But in melee, it isn't very useful because you swing whether you have a target or not and hit whatever is there.  Your facing is far more important than your selected target.

Then there are the targeted AoEs, which require you to freely move your spotting circle to designate where the skill will land.  Mouse users can do this nearly instantly with practice.  Controllers will always have to scroll to that location, therefore will never be as quick on the trigger.  With how quickly battles can change, they may find themselves doing a lot of target chasing because they won't be able to drop the skill fast enough or get to where they think the enemy is going to be before it goes somewhere else.

Some professions may be a little more suited to controller play than others, but none will be as effective as when they are being played by someone using a mouse and keyboard.  As always, it comes down to speed and precision, even in this game.

 

EDIT:

I'd be fine with split servers as well.

gainesvilleg

Originally posted by jesusdiamond

Originally posted by gainesvilleg

Originally posted by jesusdiamond

I'm highly skeptical that there is even enough money in the console market to make it worth their time to port GW2 over. Console gamers tend to have shorter attention spans and crave games more akin to Gears of war or Halo which are both great games. GW2 no matter how different it is, is still a mmo. Mmo's simply don't lend themselves to the console format well.

This, to be frank, is very backward thinking.  I disagree with almost every word of that paragraph.  Let's break it down:

1) Not enough money in the console market.  I really don't need to comment on this.  But you need to check out revenue by platform and the gaming trends.  WAY more money to be made on consoles.  I know several people that would jump at a console MMO.

2) Console gamers with short attention spans.  LOL.  Ok, then why do many console gamers also play PC games.  I play Civ4 mods, roguelikes, RTS games, many MMO's, etc but I also like the comfort of the console games.  I personally know many people that just don't want to invest in a $1500 gaming PC.  They only have their work laptops but are very much ex pencil&paper gamer types that would love a deep MMO experience.  To be honest, this statement is just PC snobery.  If not for my keyboard/mouse I would want most most of my games to be played in my media room with 80 inch 3d and dolby 7.1

3) MMO's don't lend themselves to the console format.  Nothing inherent to MMO's prevents them to be just as deep or complex on the consoles.  The limitation is the skillbar system and nothing else to be honest.  And I think the GW2 system is very controller friendly.  Also, next generation of xbox/PS are going to have touch screen enabled controllers.  That may put the final dagger into PC gaming when that happens, other than maybe strategy games but who knows maybe even those.

 

I didn't say there is not enough money period in the  console market. I said there is not enough money for a mmo. FULLSTOP

HERE ILL PUT THIS IN CAPS FOR YOU. CONSOLE GAMERS DO HAVE SHORTER ATTENTION SPANS. CONSOLES LEND THEMSELVES TO FPS SHOOTERS. NOTICE THERE ARE VERY VERY VERY FEW RTS GAMES ON THE CONSOLE? 

and mmo's do not lend themselves to a console format. 

ARE YOU GOING TO PLAY A MMO FOR HOURS A DAY IN FRONT OF A TV? HOW IS THAT CHAT GOING BTW? YOU ENJOYING NAVIGATING YOUR INVENTORY WITH A THUMBSTICK?

I hope the caps let you comprehend my previous post.

Thanks for shouting, it proves I won the argument already LOL.

As to your shouts though, there are very few RTS games because they absolutely require a keyboard/mouse at this time.  That genre is still very far away from being viable on a console.  FPS games have already migrated to consoles which are now the dominant FPS platform.  There was a time when some thought FPS wasn't possible on consoles either.

As for MMO, you are saying the text chat is the reason???  LOL.  You know there were people that thought movies with sound ("talkies") would never overtake silent films either LOL.  Console gaming is very social with headsets being standard fare.  As for inventory control, since when is inventory control in an MMO so complex it can't be handled on a console?  Right now the only thing holding MMO's back on consoles is Microsoft (who have a restrictive xbox live model) and the skill bar.  The skill bar can be solved by limiting the number of active skills though a la GW2.

Now save your voice and shout a little less when you post LOL.

Creslin321

Originally posted by jesusdiamond

Originally posted by gainesvilleg

Originally posted by jesusdiamond

I'm highly skeptical that there is even enough money in the console market to make it worth their time to port GW2 over. Console gamers tend to have shorter attention spans and crave games more akin to Gears of war or Halo which are both great games. GW2 no matter how different it is, is still a mmo. Mmo's simply don't lend themselves to the console format well.

This, to be frank, is very backward thinking.  I disagree with almost every word of that paragraph.  Let's break it down:

1) Not enough money in the console market.  I really don't need to comment on this.  But you need to check out revenue by platform and the gaming trends.  WAY more money to be made on consoles.  I know several people that would jump at a console MMO.

2) Console gamers with short attention spans.  LOL.  Ok, then why do many console gamers also play PC games.  I play Civ4 mods, roguelikes, RTS games, many MMO's, etc but I also like the comfort of the console games.  I personally know many people that just don't want to invest in a $1500 gaming PC.  They only have their work laptops but are very much ex pencil&paper gamer types that would love a deep MMO experience.  To be honest, this statement is just PC snobery.  If not for my keyboard/mouse I would want most most of my games to be played in my media room with 80 inch 3d and dolby 7.1

3) MMO's don't lend themselves to the console format.  Nothing inherent to MMO's prevents them to be just as deep or complex on the consoles.  The limitation is the skillbar system and nothing else to be honest.  And I think the GW2 system is very controller friendly.  Also, next generation of xbox/PS are going to have touch screen enabled controllers.  That may put the final dagger into PC gaming when that happens, other than maybe strategy games but who knows maybe even those.

 

I didn't say there is not enough money period in the  console market. I said there is not enough money for a mmo. FULLSTOP

HERE ILL PUT THIS IN CAPS FOR YOU. CONSOLE GAMERS DO HAVE SHORTER ATTENTION SPANS. CONSOLES LEND THEMSELVES TO FPS SHOOTERS. NOTICE THERE ARE VERY VERY VERY FEW RTS GAMES ON THE CONSOLE? 

and mmo's do not lend themselves to a console format. 

ARE YOU GOING TO PLAY A MMO FOR HOURS A DAY IN FRONT OF A TV? HOW IS THAT CHAT GOING BTW? YOU ENJOYING NAVIGATING YOUR INVENTORY WITH A THUMBSTICK?

I hope the caps let you comprehend my previous post.

 I play PC games and console games.  I am a paradox lol .

Also...FPS's were mainly a PC thing until the N64 and Goldeneye.  There is also still a large audience for FPS games on PC.

There's also a lot of role-playing console games that have 60 hour long stories...

There's also strategy games on console like Civ 4 revolutions.

Oh...and the reason that there aren't many RTS's on consoles is just the controller...nothing to do with attention spans.

Oh yeah and people would play games like Rock Band for days and days trying to master a song.

But I guess all that must have been very hard with their inheritently shorter attention spans as compared to their superior PC gaming brethren.

teakbois

Originally posted by gainesvilleg

Is the primary reason for the limited active skills in GW2 because of a hope for console versions?  

The primary reason is because its a better system.  Gives more importance to strategy and lets people play off others strengths and weaknesses more.

 

 

AIMonster

Originally posted by gainesvilleg

Is the primary reason for the limited active skills in GW2 because of a hope for console versions?  It is a brilliant idea if so.  Everything about GW2 seems taylor made for consoles:

1) Limited number of active skills = mappable to buttons on controller

There are still too many skills for the number of buttons available on the controller unless you create some needlessly complex system.  PC users would still be at a huge advantage.

2) No monthly fee = no fights with Microsoft over who gets what cut

Actually there are much more reasons why MMOs are difficult to develop for the Xbox than a royalty cut issues.  Microsoft also dislikes dealing with games that require frequent delivery of patches (especially large patches) over Xbox Live, there are huge constraints that you don't have dealing with a PC when developing a MMO for a console (not just control oriented, but in resources), and other problems.  This is why you rarely see a MMO developed for any consoles.  Also Microsoft still demands something like a 40% cut for all triple A game sales (Sony too) and that's significantly less (at least 10% usually) than other distribution methods.

3) Weapon switching a key component of play (even changing active skills when you do) very controller ready

Even if you mapped things like extra profession skills and weapon swapping the thumbsticks and d-pad you still only have 8 buttons (excluding Guide, Start, and Back which are likely going to be used for inventory and character related functions) and 10 skills in GW2.

4) Expansion packs as means to get additional revenue consistent with console model

Are you refering to DLC?  It's no different through digital distribution on the PC really.

I actually think if GW2 came out on the console it would instantly destroy WoW and be the clear number one MMO on the market.  I would be excited by this because some of my best friends only play console games.  Any reason for hope they will do this???

I wouldn't go as far as instantly, but in terms of active number of people playing it at once I'm sure it would IF it was a good console port.  It's just a matter of if Anet thinks it's profitable enough to release on the console would could actually cost loads of development money for a proper port.