(I don't miss anything about pre-WOW MMORPGs. They were the dullest games I'd ever played, and after playing them a couple weeks I would quickly return to whatever non-MMORPG I was playing at the time -- games which didn't try to hide the fun behind excessive timesinks and tedium.)
This is extremist drivel.
Label everything pre-WOW as dull.
There were many games with exciting and fun things to do. UO, EQ, DAOC just to name a few. Just look at all the things people miss from older games, this thread is full of them.
His point was that a great many people did not find those games fun they found them dull.
Actually most people who play and still play MMO's never tried them. Their first MMO was WoW.
Your probably right, which is why I didn't say most people.
I said many people. Many many people, millions actually tried everquest, UO, Daoc, Swg....
Many many people did not find those games fun.
Just because you don't like it doesn't mean it is bad.
Your probably right, which is why I didn't say most people.
I said many people. Many many people, millions actually tried everquest, UO, Daoc, Swg....
Many many people did not find those games fun.
And that matters... why? I don't find WoW fun or many of the themeparks that followed it, I didn't even reach 40th level in WoW I got so damn bored with it. Does that mean we shouldn't make another WoW because I didn't find it fun?
Never implied or insinuated that one type of game should be made over another. The point was that peoples interests haven't changed, many did try those games found they were dull and stopped playing. So the games changed to try and get them. Pretty self explanatory.
Just because you don't like it doesn't mean it is bad.
Actually most people who play and still play MMO's never tried them. Their first MMO was WoW.
Your probably right, which is why I didn't say most people.
I said many people. Many many people, millions actually tried everquest, UO, Daoc, Swg....
Many many people did not find those games fun.
Millions more have tried WoW and not opted to subscribe to it, millions have tried all the other themeparks out there and will not subscribe to them because they find them dull. The guy is right in his statement, many people who bemoan older games as dull have spent approximately five minutes or less in them. Those that have played them and find them dull... well fair play to them.
MMORPGs have greater numbers now because there is a greater number of gamers in the online space, coupled with the fact that single player games are more accessible than games requiring the user to put effort into social interaction above and beyond queuing for an instance. Given that the mmorpg genre has clearly been converted over time into single player games onlineTM it should come as not great surprise that they have large numbers of players.
The very fact that modern day games are more on rails means that there is less variety, especially when you take into account that most games are a clone of one another anyway. Different things can occur more often when the mechanics/agents driving events within a game world are non scripted (aka player driven). Logging in to cycle through the same five fucking instances is not variety and people telling themselves otherwise are seriously deluded.
More people want to have access to things that are instant blast away games. No problems with that I myself am more of an FPS gamer than an mmorpg player. But when people start attributing qualities to these games which are clearly not there, merely because they have a large player base, then they are talking out of their asses.
It's the whole sandbox vs themepark debate in a microcosm. The most myopic on here would have you believe that the latter provides more variety and potential than the former. Which is clearly rubbish, but what it does provide is more accessible content, with more polish and appeal to a wider audience. No shit it is therefore going to be more popular, but then that does not magically remove the positives of the former. Some though would have you believe that popularity is the only measure of the potential of a games mechanics, which would be funny if it wasn't so tragically indicative of the stupidity of the modern gamer.
"Come and have a look at what you could have won."
Every MMO I've played that was released since WoW reuses content which I absolutely hate. Max level version of low level dungeons, multiple difficulties of the same raid or multiple raid sizes of the same raid (or both, usually). I know it saves development time but it strikes me as incredibly lazy and cheap. At least in RIFT the hard mode dungeons had 2-3 extra bosses and a new area that was closed off in the normal version, but it still was the same dungeon.
Open world dungeons as a previous poster said also would be another thing I definitely miss.
I want to throw in caves that have the exact same map as well. How freakin lazy is this?
You kind of do, actually. In LotRO there are entire zones you can't go to unless you follow the quests.
In EQ, there entire zones you can't go to unless you are at the right level. What is your point? There are always restrictions in a MMO of where you can go to level.
Uh.. but you can go to those zones, actually. The mobs will probably kill you, but you can go there. In LotRO you either hit an invisible wall or get insta killed for setting foot there by an invisible force.
The point is, in quest based games, quests are absolutely mandatory, with no alternate ways to level. In games like DAoC, there were many ways to level. Yet people (misguided people) are trying to say there's more variety in quest based games.
What is the difference between a wall or a mob that will kill you within 5 step into the zone?
And what "no alternative"?
- you can choose different quests
- you can pvp
- you can do dungeons
You are just blinded by an illogical nostalgic yearn to go back to what you know and can accept progress.
Sadly casual players don't seem to know the difference between a wall and a mob these days.
Not to mention the poster never played DAoC and went to Ascalon City as a low level with a high level group. Sure, powerleveling speed up the leveling process, but it still took months to level up and you rarely got powerleveled. But it was an option not available in todays games and allowed you to hang out with your guild, get to know people, and chat for hours.
(I don't miss anything about pre-WOW MMORPGs. They were the dullest games I'd ever played, and after playing them a couple weeks I would quickly return to whatever non-MMORPG I was playing at the time -- games which didn't try to hide the fun behind excessive timesinks and tedium.)
This is extremist drivel.
Label everything pre-WOW as dull.
There were many games with exciting and fun things to do. UO, EQ, DAOC just to name a few. Just look at all the things people miss from older games, this thread is full of them.
His point was that a great many people did not find those games fun they found them dull.
Actually most people who play and still play MMO's never tried them. Their first MMO was WoW.
Your probably right, which is why I didn't say most people.
I said many people. Many many people, millions actually tried everquest, UO, Daoc, Swg....
Many many people did not find those games fun.
Well it wasnt that some of us didnt find EQ fun....we just have no desire to go back to it, or something similar.
When you have spent all night waiting to get your bod back from a failed Hate PU raid, or 20 hrs waiting to get in on a Fabled mob, you start to realize just how demanding your video game "hobby" is.
I have all the time in the world due to disability, yet there is no way I would ever get involved with a game like Everquest again.
Asking Devs to make AAA sandbox titles is like trying to get fine dining on a McDonalds dollar menu budget.
(I don't miss anything about pre-WOW MMORPGs. They were the dullest games I'd ever played, and after playing them a couple weeks I would quickly return to whatever non-MMORPG I was playing at the time -- games which didn't try to hide the fun behind excessive timesinks and tedium.)
This is extremist drivel.
Label everything pre-WOW as dull.
There were many games with exciting and fun things to do. UO, EQ, DAOC just to name a few. Just look at all the things people miss from older games, this thread is full of them.
His point was that a great many people did not find those games fun they found them dull.
Actually most people who play and still play MMO's never tried them. Their first MMO was WoW.
Your probably right, which is why I didn't say most people.
I said many people. Many many people, millions actually tried everquest, UO, Daoc, Swg....
Many many people did not find those games fun.
Well it wasnt that some of us didnt find EQ fun....we just have no desire to go back to it, or something similar.
When you have spent all night waiting to get your bod back from a failed Hate PU raid, or 20 hrs waiting to get in on a Fabled mob, you start to realize just how demanding your video game "hobby" is.
I have all the time in the world due to disability, yet there is no way I would ever get involved with a game like Everquest again.
I tend to agree. I play games for entertainment only, so I don't care if something takes a little or a long time as long as it's fun. As soon as I'm waiting to have fun, it's time to leave the game. And CR or running for an hour, or waiting a day to be able to have fun, for me at least, wasn't fun. It was a waste of my time.
Yes I know entertainment is a waste of time, however there is precious little free time as it is, I don't want to waste my entertainment time waiting to be entertained - that would make the activity pointless.
Just because you don't like it doesn't mean it is bad.
(I don't miss anything about pre-WOW MMORPGs. They were the dullest games I'd ever played, and after playing them a couple weeks I would quickly return to whatever non-MMORPG I was playing at the time -- games which didn't try to hide the fun behind excessive timesinks and tedium.)
This is extremist drivel.
Label everything pre-WOW as dull.
There were many games with exciting and fun things to do. UO, EQ, DAOC just to name a few. Just look at all the things people miss from older games, this thread is full of them.
His point was that a great many people did not find those games fun they found them dull.
Actually most people who play and still play MMO's never tried them. Their first MMO was WoW.
Your probably right, which is why I didn't say most people.
I said many people. Many many people, millions actually tried everquest, UO, Daoc, Swg....
Many many people did not find those games fun.
Well it wasnt that some of us didnt find EQ fun....we just have no desire to go back to it, or something similar.
When you have spent all night waiting to get your bod back from a failed Hate PU raid, or 20 hrs waiting to get in on a Fabled mob, you start to realize just how demanding your video game "hobby" is.
I have all the time in the world due to disability, yet there is no way I would ever get involved with a game like Everquest again.
I tend to agree. I play games for entertainment only, so I don't care if something takes a little or a long time as long as it's fun. As soon as I'm waiting to have fun, it's time to leave the game. And CR or running for an hour, or waiting a day to be able to have fun, for me at least, wasn't fun. It was a waste of my time.
Yes I know entertainment is a waste of time, however there is precious little free time as it is, I don't want to waste my entertainment time waiting to be entertained - that would make the activity pointless.
Then I suppose you had better stick to playing coop lobby based games. Or as some people insist on calling them:
Originally posted by xDayx 1. Starting out naked with a shortsword. 2. Not looking for exclamation points. 3. Death Penalty 4. No fast travel aside from player wizard or druid teleportation spells. 5. Mega-trains
I know it annoyed a lot of people, but the first time I got prison sexed shortly after zoning into Black Burrow the first time I remember laughing until I cried once someone explained how and why it happened.
It was beautiful chaos.
I used to play MMOs like you, but then I took an arrow to the knee.
Originally posted by Cuathon Originally posted by VengeSunsoar
Originally posted by Moaky07
Originally posted by VengeSunsoar
Originally posted by RefMinor
Originally posted by VengeSunsoar
Originally posted by nilden
Originally posted by Axehilt
Nothing. (I don't miss anything about pre-WOW MMORPGs. They were the dullest games I'd ever played, and after playing them a couple weeks I would quickly return to whatever non-MMORPG I was playing at the time -- games which didn't try to hide the fun behind excessive timesinks and tedium.)
This is extremist drivel. Label everything pre-WOW as dull. There were many games with exciting and fun things to do. UO, EQ, DAOC just to name a few. Just look at all the things people miss from older games, this thread is full of them. His point was that a great many people did not find those games fun they found them dull. Actually most people who play and still play MMO's never tried them. Their first MMO was WoW. Your probably right, which is why I didn't say most people. I said many people. Many many people, millions actually tried everquest, UO, Daoc, Swg.... Many many people did not find those games fun. Well it wasnt that some of us didnt find EQ fun....we just have no desire to go back to it, or something similar. When you have spent all night waiting to get your bod back from a failed Hate PU raid, or 20 hrs waiting to get in on a Fabled mob, you start to realize just how demanding your video game "hobby" is. I have all the time in the world due to disability, yet there is no way I would ever get involved with a game like Everquest again. I tend to agree. I play games for entertainment only, so I don't care if something takes a little or a long time as long as it's fun. As soon as I'm waiting to have fun, it's time to leave the game. And CR or running for an hour, or waiting a day to be able to have fun, for me at least, wasn't fun. It was a waste of my time. Yes I know entertainment is a waste of time, however there is precious little free time as it is, I don't want to waste my entertainment time waiting to be entertained - that would make the activity pointless. Then I suppose you had better stick to playing coop lobby based games. Or as some people insist on calling them: "Modern MMOs".
Valid point.
Community activities usually means waiting on others as well. There's a lot of smaller framed games for the impatient to enjoy.
Too bad Counter Strike was too much for most people in MMOs now a days. We'd still have community in massive games, and they'd have their instant thrill tickle. So instead they have their plodding paced safe zone blahfests.
I used to play MMOs like you, but then I took an arrow to the knee.
(I don't miss anything about pre-WOW MMORPGs. They were the dullest games I'd ever played, and after playing them a couple weeks I would quickly return to whatever non-MMORPG I was playing at the time -- games which didn't try to hide the fun behind excessive timesinks and tedium.)
This is extremist drivel.
Label everything pre-WOW as dull.
There were many games with exciting and fun things to do. UO, EQ, DAOC just to name a few. Just look at all the things people miss from older games, this thread is full of them.
His point was that a great many people did not find those games fun they found them dull.
Actually most people who play and still play MMO's never tried them. Their first MMO was WoW.
Your probably right, which is why I didn't say most people.
I said many people. Many many people, millions actually tried everquest, UO, Daoc, Swg....
Many many people did not find those games fun.
Well it wasnt that some of us didnt find EQ fun....we just have no desire to go back to it, or something similar.
When you have spent all night waiting to get your bod back from a failed Hate PU raid, or 20 hrs waiting to get in on a Fabled mob, you start to realize just how demanding your video game "hobby" is.
I have all the time in the world due to disability, yet there is no way I would ever get involved with a game like Everquest again.
I tend to agree. I play games for entertainment only, so I don't care if something takes a little or a long time as long as it's fun. As soon as I'm waiting to have fun, it's time to leave the game. And CR or running for an hour, or waiting a day to be able to have fun, for me at least, wasn't fun. It was a waste of my time.
Yes I know entertainment is a waste of time, however there is precious little free time as it is, I don't want to waste my entertainment time waiting to be entertained - that would make the activity pointless.
Then I suppose you had better stick to playing coop lobby based games. Or as some people insist on calling them:
"Modern MMOs".
Why? Did you miss the part where I said, "I don't care if something takes a little or a long time as long as it's fun. As soon as I'm waiting to have fun, it's time to leave the game. "
There are many many many games, old, new, newschool, oldschool, sandbox, thempark that all let us play without something that prevents us from playing.
I repeat waiting to be able to play the game defeats the purpose of entertainment.
edit - it wasn't a valid point at all, in fact I don't think there was any point except to try and insult "modern games".
This is why in EQ I played monk, druid, and bard mostly - they allowed me to play the game in a way so I didn't have to wait to play. CR were no problem with them, very very little downtime, easy to group with. Those classes reduced a lot of needless tedium.
edit 2 - @cuathon, I generally think you are pretty intelligent, so why do you always feel the need to insult other people, swear at other people, and generally act like your raging simply because someone disagrees with you. These are not the hallmarks of an intelligent and/or rationale person. You know that It is possible to disagree with someone's point of view and not attack the person right?
Just because you don't like it doesn't mean it is bad.
(I don't miss anything about pre-WOW MMORPGs. They were the dullest games I'd ever played, and after playing them a couple weeks I would quickly return to whatever non-MMORPG I was playing at the time -- games which didn't try to hide the fun behind excessive timesinks and tedium.)
This is extremist drivel.
Label everything pre-WOW as dull.
There were many games with exciting and fun things to do. UO, EQ, DAOC just to name a few. Just look at all the things people miss from older games, this thread is full of them.
His point was that a great many people did not find those games fun they found them dull.
Actually most people who play and still play MMO's never tried them. Their first MMO was WoW.
Your probably right, which is why I didn't say most people.
I said many people. Many many people, millions actually tried everquest, UO, Daoc, Swg....
Many many people did not find those games fun.
Well it wasnt that some of us didnt find EQ fun....we just have no desire to go back to it, or something similar.
When you have spent all night waiting to get your bod back from a failed Hate PU raid, or 20 hrs waiting to get in on a Fabled mob, you start to realize just how demanding your video game "hobby" is.
I have all the time in the world due to disability, yet there is no way I would ever get involved with a game like Everquest again.
I tend to agree. I play games for entertainment only, so I don't care if something takes a little or a long time as long as it's fun. As soon as I'm waiting to have fun, it's time to leave the game. And CR or running for an hour, or waiting a day to be able to have fun, for me at least, wasn't fun. It was a waste of my time.
Yes I know entertainment is a waste of time, however there is precious little free time as it is, I don't want to waste my entertainment time waiting to be entertained - that would make the activity pointless.
Then I suppose you had better stick to playing coop lobby based games. Or as some people insist on calling them:
"Modern MMOs".
Why? Did you miss the part where I said, "I don't care if something takes a little or a long time as long as it's fun. As soon as I'm waiting to have fun, it's time to leave the game. "
There are many many many games, old, new, newschool, oldschool, sandbox, thempark that all let us play without something that prevents us from playing.
I repeat waiting to be able to play the game defeats the purpose of entertainment.
edit - it wasn't a valid point at all, in fact I don't think there was any point except to try and insult "modern games".
This is why in EQ I played monk, druid, and bard mostly - they allowed me to play the game in a way so I didn't have to wait to play. CR were no problem with them, very very little downtime, easy to group with. Those classes reduced a lot of needless tedium.
edit 2 - @cuathon, I generally think you are pretty intelligent, so why do you always feel the need to insult other people, swear at other people, and generally act like your raging simply because someone disagrees with you. These are not the hallmarks of an intelligent and/or rationale person. You know that It is possible to disagree with someone's point of view and not attack the person right?
Its very simple. Its easy for you to make constant tone trolling arguments, aka, why can't you be civil, when you are the one who is on the winning side. All the games coming out are themeparker anti virtual world anti persistance games. Why shouldn't you be happy when you are getting everything you want?
I never see you ask Narius why he comes in all of my threads or other sandbox threads to stir up drama. What because he is civil? Why shouldn't he be civil, he has everything he wants in games, he can do whatever he wants because nothing is at stake for him.
And the same for you. It should be noted that tone trolls are 95% likely to be on the side where everything is going their way.
In any case you are wrong. Emotion is entirely irrelevant to intellect. The smartest person I know has an IQ of 205 and he is angry and depressed all the time. In fact raw intelligence correlates pretty consistently with depression and anger and anxiety. Not every smart person is angry or depressed, but to say that perfect calm and civility is the hallmark of rationality is just straight up wrong.
Calm, civil and controlled are the hallmarks of POWER. People secure in their position and desires are calm and civil.
I am trying to be civil here but every time someone perpetuates the myth that you are perpetuating it makes me feel like life is pointless because I a moving against an unstoppable tide.
Academia is composed of those intellectuals in positions of power and privilege. Academia is the most common cited group for tone trolls because they can say, look how these brilliant men are calm and in control. But that is a product of their privilege and not their intellect.
I will explain this once in as calm a manner as possible. After this if you continue to propagate this ridiculous idea I will either force myself not to respond if I am in a more chilled mood or if I am in a bad mood I will react in a manner I cannot predict which may be to ignore you or to tear your head off, I couldn't say which until it happens.
Now that we have established that emotion is not relevant to intellect the reason I get angry is because virtual worlds are being crushed under neath the weight of not an inferior but a radically different kind of gamer flooding the MMO genre after WoW.
Before if a company saw a market where they could make a few tens of millions, such as the market for EQ or UO or EvE or SWG they would make a game. Now we have a market full of players that hop from game to game, even WoW has a limited hold on their interest.
It is financially more viable to make a themepark even if it has only a 10% retention rate than it is to make a virtual world. Eve has maybe 300k subscribers over, what is it, 8 years?
Their total gross product over 8 years is something like 432million dollars. But if you make one themepark that has 2million boxes sold at 60$ and then 2 years of an average of 1mil subs in 2 years of run time your game has made 384million dollars of gross profit. Which is pretty much as good as EvE in 4x as long.
And your costs are likely lower for various reasons. And we aren't even talking about cash shops and mounts and crap.
And because fewer games are made with my make or break features we don't have a lot of options of games with alternate ancillary features, and we have to play in space. Which is fine, but it would be nice to have the option not to.
(I don't miss anything about pre-WOW MMORPGs. They were the dullest games I'd ever played, and after playing them a couple weeks I would quickly return to whatever non-MMORPG I was playing at the time -- games which didn't try to hide the fun behind excessive timesinks and tedium.)
This is extremist drivel.
Label everything pre-WOW as dull.
There were many games with exciting and fun things to do. UO, EQ, DAOC just to name a few. Just look at all the things people miss from older games, this thread is full of them.
His point was that a great many people did not find those games fun they found them dull.
Actually most people who play and still play MMO's never tried them. Their first MMO was WoW.
Your probably right, which is why I didn't say most people.
I said many people. Many many people, millions actually tried everquest, UO, Daoc, Swg....
Many many people did not find those games fun.
Well it wasnt that some of us didnt find EQ fun....we just have no desire to go back to it, or something similar.
When you have spent all night waiting to get your bod back from a failed Hate PU raid, or 20 hrs waiting to get in on a Fabled mob, you start to realize just how demanding your video game "hobby" is.
I have all the time in the world due to disability, yet there is no way I would ever get involved with a game like Everquest again.
I tend to agree. I play games for entertainment only, so I don't care if something takes a little or a long time as long as it's fun. As soon as I'm waiting to have fun, it's time to leave the game. And CR or running for an hour, or waiting a day to be able to have fun, for me at least, wasn't fun. It was a waste of my time.
Yes I know entertainment is a waste of time, however there is precious little free time as it is, I don't want to waste my entertainment time waiting to be entertained - that would make the activity pointless.
Then I suppose you had better stick to playing coop lobby based games. Or as some people insist on calling them:
"Modern MMOs".
Why? Did you miss the part where I said, "I don't care if something takes a little or a long time as long as it's fun. As soon as I'm waiting to have fun, it's time to leave the game. "
There are many many many games, old, new, newschool, oldschool, sandbox, thempark that all let us play without something that prevents us from playing.
I repeat waiting to be able to play the game defeats the purpose of entertainment.
edit - it wasn't a valid point at all, in fact I don't think there was any point except to try and insult "modern games".
This is why in EQ I played monk, druid, and bard mostly - they allowed me to play the game in a way so I didn't have to wait to play. CR were no problem with them, very very little downtime, easy to group with. Those classes reduced a lot of needless tedium.
edit 2 - @cuathon, I generally think you are pretty intelligent, so why do you always feel the need to insult other people, swear at other people, and generally act like your raging simply because someone disagrees with you. These are not the hallmarks of an intelligent and/or rationale person. You know that It is possible to disagree with someone's point of view and not attack the person right?
Its very simple. Its easy for you to make constant tone trolling arguments, aka, why can't you be civil, when you are the one who is on the winning side. All the games coming out are themeparker anti virtual world anti persistance games. Why shouldn't you be happy when you are getting everything you want?
I never see you ask Narius why he comes in all of my threads or other sandbox threads to stir up drama. What because he is civil? Why shouldn't he be civil, he has everything he wants in games, he can do whatever he wants because nothing is at stake for him.
And the same for you. It should be noted that tone trolls are 95% likely to be on the side where everything is going their way.
In any case you are wrong. Emotion is entirely irrelevant to intellect. The smartest person I know has an IQ of 205 and he is angry and depressed all the time. In fact raw intelligence correlates pretty consistently with depression and anger and anxiety. Not every smart person is angry or depressed, but to say that perfect calm and civility is the hallmark of rationality is just straight up wrong.
Calm, civil and controlled are the hallmarks of POWER. People secure in their position and desires are calm and civil.
I am trying to be civil here but every time someone perpetuates the myth that you are perpetuating it makes me feel like life is pointless because I a moving against an unstoppable tide.
Academia is composed of those intellectuals in positions of power and privilege. Academia is the most common cited group for tone trolls because they can say, look how these brilliant men are calm and in control. But that is a product of their privilege and not their intellect.
I will explain this once in as calm a manner as possible. After this if you continue to propagate this ridiculous idea I will either force myself not to respond if I am in a more chilled mood or if I am in a bad mood I will react in a manner I cannot predict which may be to ignore you or to tear your head off, I couldn't say which until it happens.
Now that we have established that emotion is not relevant to intellect the reason I get angry is because virtual worlds are being crushed under neath the weight of not an inferior but a radically different kind of gamer flooding the MMO genre after WoW.
Before if a company saw a market where they could make a few tens of millions, such as the market for EQ or UO or EvE or SWG they would make a game. Now we have a market full of players that hop from game to game, even WoW has a limited hold on their interest.
It is financially more viable to make a themepark even if it has only a 10% retention rate than it is to make a virtual world. Eve has maybe 300k subscribers over, what is it, 8 years?
Their total gross product over 8 years is something like 432million dollars. But if you make one themepark that has 2million boxes sold at 60$ and then 2 years of an average of 1mil subs in 2 years of run time your game has made 384million dollars of gross profit. Which is pretty much as good as EvE in 4x as long.
And your costs are likely lower for various reasons. And we aren't even talking about cash shops and mounts and crap.
And because fewer games are made with my make or break features we don't have a lot of options of games with alternate ancillary features, and we have to play in space. Which is fine, but it would be nice to have the option not to.
Its very simple. Its easy for you to make constant tone trolling arguments, aka, why can't you be civil, when you are the one who is on the winning side. All the games coming out are themeparker anti virtual world anti persistance games. Why shouldn't you be happy when you are getting everything you want?
So your argument is that you cannot be civil because someone is not making a game for you, or giving you want you want - that is the height of childishness
I never see you ask Narius why he comes in all of my threads or other sandbox threads to stir up drama. What because he is civil? Why shouldn't he be civil, he has everything he wants in games, he can do whatever he wants because nothing is at stake for him.
And the same for you. It should be noted that tone trolls are 95% likely to be on the side where everything is going their way.
I think Narius does come on strong, is fairly rigid in his views and probably should not post on many threads but he very rarely insults other gamers and never outright swears or attacks an individual. Nor do I in fact I very very rarely ever tell anyone they are wrong unless it is something that can be objectively proved, and am very carefull to state that it is my opinion on many things. So no.
In any case you are wrong. Emotion is entirely irrelevant to intellect. The smartest person I know has an IQ of 205 and he is angry and depressed all the time. In fact raw intelligence correlates pretty consistently with depression and anger and anxiety. Not every smart person is angry or depressed, but to say that perfect calm and civility is the hallmark of rationality is just straight up wrong.
Your right, emotion is not just related to intellect, unless you are talking about emotional intelligence which many studies have shown is a greater indicator of success than IQ. Good thing I didn't just say intellect, I said rationale as well. Only an immature and irrational person thinks that just because someone disagrees with them that they are attacking them. That is actually one hallmark of teenages, possibly due to undeveloped frontal lobes. You are not a teenager, are intelligent and articulate. Why then do you "fly off the handle so many times"
Calm, civil and controlled are the hallmarks of POWER. People secure in their position and desires are calm and civil.
Again you are normally you are right. However regardless of your personal level of power, how you choose to act makes a bigger difference in how you are viewed.
I am trying to be civil here but every time someone perpetuates the myth that you are perpetuating it makes me feel like life is pointless because I a moving against an unstoppable tide.
I am not pepetuating any myths. Please feel free to point out the myth.
Academia is composed of those intellectuals in positions of power and privilege. Academia is the most common cited group for tone trolls because they can say, look how these brilliant men are calm and in control. But that is a product of their privilege and not their intellect.
Once again I did not mention academia. Academia is seperate from intelligence and rationality. That was a red herring.
I will explain this once in as calm a manner as possible. After this if you continue to propagate this ridiculous idea I will either force myself not to respond if I am in a more chilled mood or if I am in a bad mood I will react in a manner I cannot predict which may be to ignore you or to tear your head off, I couldn't say which until it happens.
This speak volumes. That you cannot reasonably predict how you would react if someone disagrees with you in a written forum is silly. If you are in a bad mood you still choose how you act.
Now that we have established that emotion is not relevant to intellect the reason I get angry is because virtual worlds are being crushed under neath the weight of not an inferior but a radically different kind of gamer flooding the MMO genre after WoW.
And getting angry is fine, however your inabiltiy to express yourself without resorting to personal attacks is another matter.
Before if a company saw a market where they could make a few tens of millions, such as the market for EQ or UO or EvE or SWG they would make a game. Now we have a market full of players that hop from game to game, even WoW has a limited hold on their interest.
It is financially more viable to make a themepark even if it has only a 10% retention rate than it is to make a virtual world. Eve has maybe 300k subscribers over, what is it, 8 years?
Their total gross product over 8 years is something like 432million dollars. But if you make one themepark that has 2million boxes sold at 60$ and then 2 years of an average of 1mil subs in 2 years of run time your game has made 384million dollars of gross profit. Which is pretty much as good as EvE in 4x as long.
And your costs are likely lower for various reasons. And we aren't even talking about cash shops and mounts and crap.
And because fewer games are made with my make or break features we don't have a lot of options of games with alternate ancillary features, and we have to play in space. Which is fine, but it would be nice to have the option not to.
Which is why are are doing what you can do, making your opinion known, trying to gather support and more importantly making your own game. great.
None of that has anything to do with the constant attacking , swearing and belitting of other players.
Just because you don't like it doesn't mean it is bad.
I miss the "[keyword]" way of getting quests. I would actually read the short speech the NPC would give in my chat window and interact with them by typing out a response and possibly get more dialog. It felt deeper than clicking past a sheet of quest text.
Its very simple. Its easy for you to make constant tone trolling arguments, aka, why can't you be civil, when you are the one who is on the winning side. All the games coming out are themeparker anti virtual world anti persistance games. Why shouldn't you be happy when you are getting everything you want?
So your argument is that you cannot be civil because someone is not making a game for you, or giving you want you want - that is the height of childishness
Dodging the argument.
I never see you ask Narius why he comes in all of my threads or other sandbox threads to stir up drama. What because he is civil? Why shouldn't he be civil, he has everything he wants in games, he can do whatever he wants because nothing is at stake for him.
And the same for you. It should be noted that tone trolls are 95% likely to be on the side where everything is going their way.
I think Narius does come on strong, is fairly rigid in his views and probably should not post on many threads but he very rarely insults other gamers and never outright swears or attacks an individual. Nor do I in fact I very very rarely ever tell anyone they are wrong unless it is something that can be objectively proved, and am very carefull to state that it is my opinion on many things. So no.
Again you didn't address my point at all.
In any case you are wrong. Emotion is entirely irrelevant to intellect. The smartest person I know has an IQ of 205 and he is angry and depressed all the time. In fact raw intelligence correlates pretty consistently with depression and anger and anxiety. Not every smart person is angry or depressed, but to say that perfect calm and civility is the hallmark of rationality is just straight up wrong.
Your right, emotion is not just related to intellect, unless you are talking about emotional intelligence which many studies have shown is a greater indicator of success than IQ. Good thing I didn't just say intellect, I said rationale as well. Only an immature and irrational person thinks that just because someone disagrees with them that they are attacking them. That is actually one hallmark of teenages, possibly due to undeveloped frontal lobes. You are not a teenager, are intelligent and articulate. Why then do you "fly off the handle so many times"
You still said intellect. Whether you said rational also is irrelevant.
Calm, civil and controlled are the hallmarks of POWER. People secure in their position and desires are calm and civil.
Again you are normally you are right. However regardless of your personal level of power, how you choose to act makes a bigger difference in how you are viewed.
You fail to understand what tone trolling is.
I am trying to be civil here but every time someone perpetuates the myth that you are perpetuating it makes me feel like life is pointless because I a moving against an unstoppable tide.
I am not pepetuating any myths. Please feel free to point out the myth.
You said intelligent people are calm and civil. That is a myth. Further that rational people are civil is also a myth. Rational people are civil when it benefits them because rational means making the choice that most benefits you. So you are in fact perpetuating 2 myths.
Academia is composed of those intellectuals in positions of power and privilege. Academia is the most common cited group for tone trolls because they can say, look how these brilliant men are calm and in control. But that is a product of their privilege and not their intellect.
Once again I did not mention academia. Academia is seperate from intelligence and rationality. That was a red herring.
You are trying to separate yourself from the greater context of society. You do not exist in a vacuum. The idea that rationality and intellect are related to civility and calmness is directly based on the structures of academia. This perception may or may not be the proximate cause of your incorrect belief but it certainly exists on the causal chain.
I will explain this once in as calm a manner as possible. After this if you continue to propagate this ridiculous idea I will either force myself not to respond if I am in a more chilled mood or if I am in a bad mood I will react in a manner I cannot predict which may be to ignore you or to tear your head off, I couldn't say which until it happens.
This speak volumes. That you cannot reasonably predict how you would react if someone disagrees with you in a written forum is silly. If you are in a bad mood you still choose how you act.
This is not true. Studies have shown that people's reactions vary wildly to the exact same stimulus based on their mood. Again you are perpetuating a myth about something you don't understand.
Now that we have established that emotion is not relevant to intellect the reason I get angry is because virtual worlds are being crushed under neath the weight of not an inferior but a radically different kind of gamer flooding the MMO genre after WoW.
And getting angry is fine, however your inabiltiy to express yourself without resorting to personal attacks is another matter.
I am fully capable of expressing myself without personal attacks. I wasn't even attacking you in the original quote in any case.
Before if a company saw a market where they could make a few tens of millions, such as the market for EQ or UO or EvE or SWG they would make a game. Now we have a market full of players that hop from game to game, even WoW has a limited hold on their interest.
It is financially more viable to make a themepark even if it has only a 10% retention rate than it is to make a virtual world. Eve has maybe 300k subscribers over, what is it, 8 years?
Their total gross product over 8 years is something like 432million dollars. But if you make one themepark that has 2million boxes sold at 60$ and then 2 years of an average of 1mil subs in 2 years of run time your game has made 384million dollars of gross profit. Which is pretty much as good as EvE in 4x as long.
And your costs are likely lower for various reasons. And we aren't even talking about cash shops and mounts and crap.
And because fewer games are made with my make or break features we don't have a lot of options of games with alternate ancillary features, and we have to play in space. Which is fine, but it would be nice to have the option not to.
Which is why are are doing what you can do, making your opinion known, trying to gather support and more importantly making your own game. great.
None of that has anything to do with the constant attacking , swearing and belitting of other players.
Swearing is not the same for me as you. I understand how you may misintepret me, but my swearing does not indicate any state of anger or rage. The frequency of profanity in my speech does not vary between my calm and aroused state.
Being angry that something you once enjoyed is now absent IS NOT a behavior primarily associated with teenagers. Another pop culture myth you insist on propagating. People consistently exhibit their behavior throughout their lifespan regardless of age.
It is merely that the things that primarily upset adults are arbitrarily determined by society as being something more worth being upset over because adults are in control of society and get to decide what the norms of behavior are.
Further it is easy for people to judge others when nothing they consider significant to them has been taken away.
You don't know how you will react to a situation until you are in it. Countless studies have demonstrated that people consistently mispredict what their response would be to a situation they haven't experienced yet.
I tend to agree. I play games for entertainment only, so I don't care if something takes a little or a long time as long as it's fun. As soon as I'm waiting to have fun, it's time to leave the game. And CR or running for an hour, or waiting a day to be able to have fun, for me at least, wasn't fun. It was a waste of my time.
Yes I know entertainment is a waste of time, however there is precious little free time as it is, I don't want to waste my entertainment time waiting to be entertained - that would make the activity pointless.
Then I suppose you had better stick to playing coop lobby based games. Or as some people insist on calling them:
"Modern MMOs".
I do. It does not matter what the name is .. but coop lobby based games are great. Fun, focus combat, no dead-time waiting, chatting ... .
My next main game, hence, will most probably be Diablo 3. I hope there are more games like that.
See now this is a good discussion, and while I disagree with most of your points and feel that many of the thing you are stating are red herring arguments and do not address any of my points, it is still a rationale discussion, with no attacking or belittling going on. This is what moves debates forward.
edit - I do think you are pretty intelligent and you definately know far more about game development and tech than I ever will. I also think your game does sound interesting and I do believe that it will be indie devs that move the genre forward (that seems to be the case in many fields actually).
.. was going to say more but I'll leave it at that.
Just because you don't like it doesn't mean it is bad.
i miss the thrill of knowing that you could die in any zone at anytime if you dont have your wits about you.
Having to travel to the better dungeons. it felt like an adventure book, gathering your group together and making sure you had enough supplies then setting off.
(I don't miss anything about pre-WOW MMORPGs. They were the dullest games I'd ever played, and after playing them a couple weeks I would quickly return to whatever non-MMORPG I was playing at the time -- games which didn't try to hide the fun behind excessive timesinks and tedium.)
This is extremist drivel.
Label everything pre-WOW as dull.
There were many games with exciting and fun things to do. UO, EQ, DAOC just to name a few. Just look at all the things people miss from older games, this thread is full of them.
His point was that a great many people did not find those games fun they found them dull.
Actually most people who play and still play MMO's never tried them. Their first MMO was WoW.
Your probably right, which is why I didn't say most people.
I said many people. Many many people, millions actually tried everquest, UO, Daoc, Swg....
Many many people did not find those games fun.
Well it wasnt that some of us didnt find EQ fun....we just have no desire to go back to it, or something similar.
When you have spent all night waiting to get your bod back from a failed Hate PU raid, or 20 hrs waiting to get in on a Fabled mob, you start to realize just how demanding your video game "hobby" is.
I have all the time in the world due to disability, yet there is no way I would ever get involved with a game like Everquest again.
I tend to agree. I play games for entertainment only, so I don't care if something takes a little or a long time as long as it's fun. As soon as I'm waiting to have fun, it's time to leave the game. And CR or running for an hour, or waiting a day to be able to have fun, for me at least, wasn't fun. It was a waste of my time.
Yes I know entertainment is a waste of time, however there is precious little free time as it is, I don't want to waste my entertainment time waiting to be entertained - that would make the activity pointless.
Then I suppose you had better stick to playing coop lobby based games. Or as some people insist on calling them:
"Modern MMOs".
Well I believe it is up for the individual to decide what they want to do, and not be insulted for it.
I personally feel your "MMO to end all MMOs" is simply a pipedream, but who am I to tell ya to quit spamming the forums about it? It is what you want to do with your time, and there is no reason to be deragatory towards you for it.
Showing folks the same consideration would be a novel idea eh?
Asking Devs to make AAA sandbox titles is like trying to get fine dining on a McDonalds dollar menu budget.
(I don't miss anything about pre-WOW MMORPGs. They were the dullest games I'd ever played, and after playing them a couple weeks I would quickly return to whatever non-MMORPG I was playing at the time -- games which didn't try to hide the fun behind excessive timesinks and tedium.)
This is extremist drivel.
Label everything pre-WOW as dull.
There were many games with exciting and fun things to do. UO, EQ, DAOC just to name a few. Just look at all the things people miss from older games, this thread is full of them.
His point was that a great many people did not find those games fun they found them dull.
Actually most people who play and still play MMO's never tried them. Their first MMO was WoW.
Your probably right, which is why I didn't say most people.
I said many people. Many many people, millions actually tried everquest, UO, Daoc, Swg....
Many many people did not find those games fun.
Well it wasnt that some of us didnt find EQ fun....we just have no desire to go back to it, or something similar.
When you have spent all night waiting to get your bod back from a failed Hate PU raid, or 20 hrs waiting to get in on a Fabled mob, you start to realize just how demanding your video game "hobby" is.
I have all the time in the world due to disability, yet there is no way I would ever get involved with a game like Everquest again.
I tend to agree. I play games for entertainment only, so I don't care if something takes a little or a long time as long as it's fun. As soon as I'm waiting to have fun, it's time to leave the game. And CR or running for an hour, or waiting a day to be able to have fun, for me at least, wasn't fun. It was a waste of my time.
Yes I know entertainment is a waste of time, however there is precious little free time as it is, I don't want to waste my entertainment time waiting to be entertained - that would make the activity pointless.
Then I suppose you had better stick to playing coop lobby based games. Or as some people insist on calling them:
"Modern MMOs".
Well I believe it is up for the individual to decide what they want to do, and not be insulted for it.
I personally feel your "MMO to end all MMOs" is simply a pipedream, but who am I to tell ya to quit spamming the forums about it? It is what you want to do with your time, and there is no reason to be deragatory towards you for it.
Showing folks the same consideration would be a novel idea eh?
I didn't insult him. I simply indicated a genre of games that may be more to his taste. There is no reason to intepret that post as an insult.
I am not sure you understand what the word spams means btw.
Comments
Your probably right, which is why I didn't say most people.
I said many people. Many many people, millions actually tried everquest, UO, Daoc, Swg....
Many many people did not find those games fun.
And that matters... why? I don't find WoW fun or many of the themeparks that followed it, I didn't even reach 40th level in WoW I got so damn bored with it. Does that mean we shouldn't make another WoW because I didn't find it fun?
Millions more have tried WoW and not opted to subscribe to it, millions have tried all the other themeparks out there and will not subscribe to them because they find them dull. The guy is right in his statement, many people who bemoan older games as dull have spent approximately five minutes or less in them. Those that have played them and find them dull... well fair play to them.
MMORPGs have greater numbers now because there is a greater number of gamers in the online space, coupled with the fact that single player games are more accessible than games requiring the user to put effort into social interaction above and beyond queuing for an instance. Given that the mmorpg genre has clearly been converted over time into single player games onlineTM it should come as not great surprise that they have large numbers of players.
The very fact that modern day games are more on rails means that there is less variety, especially when you take into account that most games are a clone of one another anyway. Different things can occur more often when the mechanics/agents driving events within a game world are non scripted (aka player driven). Logging in to cycle through the same five fucking instances is not variety and people telling themselves otherwise are seriously deluded.
More people want to have access to things that are instant blast away games. No problems with that I myself am more of an FPS gamer than an mmorpg player. But when people start attributing qualities to these games which are clearly not there, merely because they have a large player base, then they are talking out of their asses.
It's the whole sandbox vs themepark debate in a microcosm. The most myopic on here would have you believe that the latter provides more variety and potential than the former. Which is clearly rubbish, but what it does provide is more accessible content, with more polish and appeal to a wider audience. No shit it is therefore going to be more popular, but then that does not magically remove the positives of the former. Some though would have you believe that popularity is the only measure of the potential of a games mechanics, which would be funny if it wasn't so tragically indicative of the stupidity of the modern gamer.
"Come and have a look at what you could have won."
I want to throw in caves that have the exact same map as well. How freakin lazy is this?
Not to mention the poster never played DAoC and went to Ascalon City as a low level with a high level group. Sure, powerleveling speed up the leveling process, but it still took months to level up and you rarely got powerleveled. But it was an option not available in todays games and allowed you to hang out with your guild, get to know people, and chat for hours.
Well it wasnt that some of us didnt find EQ fun....we just have no desire to go back to it, or something similar.
When you have spent all night waiting to get your bod back from a failed Hate PU raid, or 20 hrs waiting to get in on a Fabled mob, you start to realize just how demanding your video game "hobby" is.
I have all the time in the world due to disability, yet there is no way I would ever get involved with a game like Everquest again.
Asking Devs to make AAA sandbox titles is like trying to get fine dining on a McDonalds dollar menu budget.
I tend to agree. I play games for entertainment only, so I don't care if something takes a little or a long time as long as it's fun. As soon as I'm waiting to have fun, it's time to leave the game. And CR or running for an hour, or waiting a day to be able to have fun, for me at least, wasn't fun. It was a waste of my time.
Yes I know entertainment is a waste of time, however there is precious little free time as it is, I don't want to waste my entertainment time waiting to be entertained - that would make the activity pointless.
1. Starting out naked with a shortsword.
2. Not looking for exclamation points.
3. Death Penalty
4. No fast travel aside from player wizard or druid teleportation spells.
5. Mega-trains
Then I suppose you had better stick to playing coop lobby based games. Or as some people insist on calling them:
"Modern MMOs".
I know it annoyed a lot of people, but the first time I got prison sexed shortly after zoning into Black Burrow the first time I remember laughing until I cried once someone explained how and why it happened.
It was beautiful chaos.
I used to play MMOs like you, but then I took an arrow to the knee.
Label everything pre-WOW as dull.
There were many games with exciting and fun things to do. UO, EQ, DAOC just to name a few. Just look at all the things people miss from older games, this thread is full of them.
His point was that a great many people did not find those games fun they found them dull.
Actually most people who play and still play MMO's never tried them. Their first MMO was WoW.
Your probably right, which is why I didn't say most people.
I said many people. Many many people, millions actually tried everquest, UO, Daoc, Swg....
Many many people did not find those games fun.
Well it wasnt that some of us didnt find EQ fun....we just have no desire to go back to it, or something similar.
When you have spent all night waiting to get your bod back from a failed Hate PU raid, or 20 hrs waiting to get in on a Fabled mob, you start to realize just how demanding your video game "hobby" is.
I have all the time in the world due to disability, yet there is no way I would ever get involved with a game like Everquest again.
I tend to agree. I play games for entertainment only, so I don't care if something takes a little or a long time as long as it's fun. As soon as I'm waiting to have fun, it's time to leave the game. And CR or running for an hour, or waiting a day to be able to have fun, for me at least, wasn't fun. It was a waste of my time.
Yes I know entertainment is a waste of time, however there is precious little free time as it is, I don't want to waste my entertainment time waiting to be entertained - that would make the activity pointless.
Then I suppose you had better stick to playing coop lobby based games. Or as some people insist on calling them:
"Modern MMOs".
Valid point.
Community activities usually means waiting on others as well. There's a lot of smaller framed games for the impatient to enjoy.
Too bad Counter Strike was too much for most people in MMOs now a days. We'd still have community in massive games, and they'd have their instant thrill tickle. So instead they have their plodding paced safe zone blahfests.
I used to play MMOs like you, but then I took an arrow to the knee.
lol, nice
Why? Did you miss the part where I said, "I don't care if something takes a little or a long time as long as it's fun. As soon as I'm waiting to have fun, it's time to leave the game. "
There are many many many games, old, new, newschool, oldschool, sandbox, thempark that all let us play without something that prevents us from playing.
I repeat waiting to be able to play the game defeats the purpose of entertainment.
edit - it wasn't a valid point at all, in fact I don't think there was any point except to try and insult "modern games".
This is why in EQ I played monk, druid, and bard mostly - they allowed me to play the game in a way so I didn't have to wait to play. CR were no problem with them, very very little downtime, easy to group with. Those classes reduced a lot of needless tedium.
edit 2 - @cuathon, I generally think you are pretty intelligent, so why do you always feel the need to insult other people, swear at other people, and generally act like your raging simply because someone disagrees with you. These are not the hallmarks of an intelligent and/or rationale person. You know that It is possible to disagree with someone's point of view and not attack the person right?
Its very simple. Its easy for you to make constant tone trolling arguments, aka, why can't you be civil, when you are the one who is on the winning side. All the games coming out are themeparker anti virtual world anti persistance games. Why shouldn't you be happy when you are getting everything you want?
I never see you ask Narius why he comes in all of my threads or other sandbox threads to stir up drama. What because he is civil? Why shouldn't he be civil, he has everything he wants in games, he can do whatever he wants because nothing is at stake for him.
And the same for you. It should be noted that tone trolls are 95% likely to be on the side where everything is going their way.
In any case you are wrong. Emotion is entirely irrelevant to intellect. The smartest person I know has an IQ of 205 and he is angry and depressed all the time. In fact raw intelligence correlates pretty consistently with depression and anger and anxiety. Not every smart person is angry or depressed, but to say that perfect calm and civility is the hallmark of rationality is just straight up wrong.
Calm, civil and controlled are the hallmarks of POWER. People secure in their position and desires are calm and civil.
I am trying to be civil here but every time someone perpetuates the myth that you are perpetuating it makes me feel like life is pointless because I a moving against an unstoppable tide.
Academia is composed of those intellectuals in positions of power and privilege. Academia is the most common cited group for tone trolls because they can say, look how these brilliant men are calm and in control. But that is a product of their privilege and not their intellect.
I will explain this once in as calm a manner as possible. After this if you continue to propagate this ridiculous idea I will either force myself not to respond if I am in a more chilled mood or if I am in a bad mood I will react in a manner I cannot predict which may be to ignore you or to tear your head off, I couldn't say which until it happens.
Now that we have established that emotion is not relevant to intellect the reason I get angry is because virtual worlds are being crushed under neath the weight of not an inferior but a radically different kind of gamer flooding the MMO genre after WoW.
Before if a company saw a market where they could make a few tens of millions, such as the market for EQ or UO or EvE or SWG they would make a game. Now we have a market full of players that hop from game to game, even WoW has a limited hold on their interest.
It is financially more viable to make a themepark even if it has only a 10% retention rate than it is to make a virtual world. Eve has maybe 300k subscribers over, what is it, 8 years?
Their total gross product over 8 years is something like 432million dollars. But if you make one themepark that has 2million boxes sold at 60$ and then 2 years of an average of 1mil subs in 2 years of run time your game has made 384million dollars of gross profit. Which is pretty much as good as EvE in 4x as long.
And your costs are likely lower for various reasons. And we aren't even talking about cash shops and mounts and crap.
And because fewer games are made with my make or break features we don't have a lot of options of games with alternate ancillary features, and we have to play in space. Which is fine, but it would be nice to have the option not to.
Its very simple. Its easy for you to make constant tone trolling arguments, aka, why can't you be civil, when you are the one who is on the winning side. All the games coming out are themeparker anti virtual world anti persistance games. Why shouldn't you be happy when you are getting everything you want?
So your argument is that you cannot be civil because someone is not making a game for you, or giving you want you want - that is the height of childishness
I never see you ask Narius why he comes in all of my threads or other sandbox threads to stir up drama. What because he is civil? Why shouldn't he be civil, he has everything he wants in games, he can do whatever he wants because nothing is at stake for him.
And the same for you. It should be noted that tone trolls are 95% likely to be on the side where everything is going their way.
I think Narius does come on strong, is fairly rigid in his views and probably should not post on many threads but he very rarely insults other gamers and never outright swears or attacks an individual. Nor do I in fact I very very rarely ever tell anyone they are wrong unless it is something that can be objectively proved, and am very carefull to state that it is my opinion on many things. So no.
In any case you are wrong. Emotion is entirely irrelevant to intellect. The smartest person I know has an IQ of 205 and he is angry and depressed all the time. In fact raw intelligence correlates pretty consistently with depression and anger and anxiety. Not every smart person is angry or depressed, but to say that perfect calm and civility is the hallmark of rationality is just straight up wrong.
Your right, emotion is not just related to intellect, unless you are talking about emotional intelligence which many studies have shown is a greater indicator of success than IQ. Good thing I didn't just say intellect, I said rationale as well. Only an immature and irrational person thinks that just because someone disagrees with them that they are attacking them. That is actually one hallmark of teenages, possibly due to undeveloped frontal lobes. You are not a teenager, are intelligent and articulate. Why then do you "fly off the handle so many times"
Calm, civil and controlled are the hallmarks of POWER. People secure in their position and desires are calm and civil.
Again you are normally you are right. However regardless of your personal level of power, how you choose to act makes a bigger difference in how you are viewed.
I am trying to be civil here but every time someone perpetuates the myth that you are perpetuating it makes me feel like life is pointless because I a moving against an unstoppable tide.
I am not pepetuating any myths. Please feel free to point out the myth.
Academia is composed of those intellectuals in positions of power and privilege. Academia is the most common cited group for tone trolls because they can say, look how these brilliant men are calm and in control. But that is a product of their privilege and not their intellect.
Once again I did not mention academia. Academia is seperate from intelligence and rationality. That was a red herring.
I will explain this once in as calm a manner as possible. After this if you continue to propagate this ridiculous idea I will either force myself not to respond if I am in a more chilled mood or if I am in a bad mood I will react in a manner I cannot predict which may be to ignore you or to tear your head off, I couldn't say which until it happens.
This speak volumes. That you cannot reasonably predict how you would react if someone disagrees with you in a written forum is silly. If you are in a bad mood you still choose how you act.
Now that we have established that emotion is not relevant to intellect the reason I get angry is because virtual worlds are being crushed under neath the weight of not an inferior but a radically different kind of gamer flooding the MMO genre after WoW.
And getting angry is fine, however your inabiltiy to express yourself without resorting to personal attacks is another matter.
Before if a company saw a market where they could make a few tens of millions, such as the market for EQ or UO or EvE or SWG they would make a game. Now we have a market full of players that hop from game to game, even WoW has a limited hold on their interest.
It is financially more viable to make a themepark even if it has only a 10% retention rate than it is to make a virtual world. Eve has maybe 300k subscribers over, what is it, 8 years?
Their total gross product over 8 years is something like 432million dollars. But if you make one themepark that has 2million boxes sold at 60$ and then 2 years of an average of 1mil subs in 2 years of run time your game has made 384million dollars of gross profit. Which is pretty much as good as EvE in 4x as long.
And your costs are likely lower for various reasons. And we aren't even talking about cash shops and mounts and crap.
And because fewer games are made with my make or break features we don't have a lot of options of games with alternate ancillary features, and we have to play in space. Which is fine, but it would be nice to have the option not to.
Which is why are are doing what you can do, making your opinion known, trying to gather support and more importantly making your own game. great.
None of that has anything to do with the constant attacking , swearing and belitting of other players.
I miss the "[keyword]" way of getting quests. I would actually read the short speech the NPC would give in my chat window and interact with them by typing out a response and possibly get more dialog. It felt deeper than clicking past a sheet of quest text.
Just not worth my time anymore.
Swearing is not the same for me as you. I understand how you may misintepret me, but my swearing does not indicate any state of anger or rage. The frequency of profanity in my speech does not vary between my calm and aroused state.
Being angry that something you once enjoyed is now absent IS NOT a behavior primarily associated with teenagers. Another pop culture myth you insist on propagating. People consistently exhibit their behavior throughout their lifespan regardless of age.
It is merely that the things that primarily upset adults are arbitrarily determined by society as being something more worth being upset over because adults are in control of society and get to decide what the norms of behavior are.
Further it is easy for people to judge others when nothing they consider significant to them has been taken away.
You don't know how you will react to a situation until you are in it. Countless studies have demonstrated that people consistently mispredict what their response would be to a situation they haven't experienced yet.
I do. It does not matter what the name is .. but coop lobby based games are great. Fun, focus combat, no dead-time waiting, chatting ... .
My next main game, hence, will most probably be Diablo 3. I hope there are more games like that.
See now this is a good discussion, and while I disagree with most of your points and feel that many of the thing you are stating are red herring arguments and do not address any of my points, it is still a rationale discussion, with no attacking or belittling going on. This is what moves debates forward.
edit - I do think you are pretty intelligent and you definately know far more about game development and tech than I ever will. I also think your game does sound interesting and I do believe that it will be indie devs that move the genre forward (that seems to be the case in many fields actually).
.. was going to say more but I'll leave it at that.
i miss the thrill of knowing that you could die in any zone at anytime if you dont have your wits about you.
Having to travel to the better dungeons. it felt like an adventure book, gathering your group together and making sure you had enough supplies then setting off.
Well I believe it is up for the individual to decide what they want to do, and not be insulted for it.
I personally feel your "MMO to end all MMOs" is simply a pipedream, but who am I to tell ya to quit spamming the forums about it? It is what you want to do with your time, and there is no reason to be deragatory towards you for it.
Showing folks the same consideration would be a novel idea eh?
Asking Devs to make AAA sandbox titles is like trying to get fine dining on a McDonalds dollar menu budget.
handholding /off
Let's internet
I didn't insult him. I simply indicated a genre of games that may be more to his taste. There is no reason to intepret that post as an insult.
I am not sure you understand what the word spams means btw.