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Pre-Alpha Video #2
Ironclad
Member UncommonPosts: 71
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Ironclad
Member UncommonPosts: 71
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It looks pretty good for pre-alpha.
I'm worried about the twitch-based, fps-styled combat though, since it's really hard to pull off in an MMO. I prefer it to target-based combat but it has to work, and in my experience it rarely does... Fallen Earth, Earthrise, Mortal Online - all horrible combat-wise. The only working twitch-based MMO I've played so far is Darkfall.
Also, The Repopulation apparently offers you a choice between twitch-based and "rpg" (i.e. target-based) combat. I can't see how that will work in PvP, when some guys try to aim in a laggy environment and others just tab-target their opponents and mow them down.
Just a quick note on Action Mode Combat vs. RPG mode: To the server they are exactly the same. Action Mode is a client side mechanism that allows you to control combat like you would an FPS, but it translates your actions into abilities. So to give an example of how that works:
RPG Mode
1) You click on a target.
2) You click on the Leg Shot action to snare them while they are incoming.
3) You click the Rapid Fire ability to fire three quick shots at your target.
4) You target a second target.
5) You click on the Head Shot ability for maximum damage.
Action Mode
1) You click the first target in the legs. If you have a Leg Shot ability and it is refreshed it will perform a Leg Shot. If it is not refreshed it will fall back to the next best ability for that scenario. If none of them are refreshed or you do not know anything else it will fall back to a Basic Attack.
2) You click a few more times quickly at the target as it is incoming. The client translates the multiple clicks into a Rapid Fire, Double Shot or other appropriate ability that is ready. It should be noted that special FX are played instantly on the client in Action Mode to reduce perceived latency. But all damage or effects are performed server side and then sent to other characters, the same way it would be in RPG mode.
3) You click on the head of a second target to attempt a Head Shot. Again if you don't have this ability or it isn't refresh it falls back on the next most appropriate ability that you have at your disposal.
All of the Action Mode calculations are done client side. When it is enabled, the client starts tracking how often you click your mouse, what you clicked on, what part of the screen it was clicked on, and it puts them into a queue which it then filters through every combat tick (the value of this is still being tweaked trying ot find the best balance for it, at the moment it is 0.25 seconds) and determines the ability which was chosen. You have four basic actions in Action Mode: Normal Click (LMB by default), Momentum Click (RMB by default), Defensive (CTRL by default), and Momentum Defensive (CTRL+RMB). Other things that can determine your abilities are if you are in Stealth mode, your position (in cover, crouching, prone, etc), etc. If you click on friendly targets it will interact with them, heal or buff them based on your abilities. Clicking on enemies does attacks.
The main difference between combat in Repop and a traditional RPG game is just a faster combat timer tick. Rather than limiting you to one action per 1-2 seconds or so as is often the case, it's shorter. It is still capped though. To the server anything you do in action mode comes in the exact same way something in RPG mode does, and it still uses the same RPG calculations. So it really is just a matter of preference for the player. If you prefer a slower paced RPG style combat, then it performs basically just how you expect it would. Action Mode is more there for players who have grown bored with that style, or for FPS fans. I don't think there's really any significant advantage in either mode. RPG mode you have more control over exactly what you want to do. FPS mode you have an easier avenue to switching between multiple targets. You can switch between the two though at any time.
https://www.therepopulation.com - Sci Fi Sandbox.
Thanks for that in-depth explanation, it was an interesting read! I take it you're actually working with the game?
The system sounds really neat, but I'm still a bit worried that lag, ping differences, etc will put those that go for twitch-based combat at a disadvantage; they still have to register a hit by aiming manually at an opponent (who apparently will have multiple hitboxes as well, which in their turn will have to be hit correctly for the desired effect), while the "rpg" players just have to target someone with one click and then use a sequence of hotkeys.
My experience with open-world PvP using client-side hit detection and manual aim (espceially when multiple hitboxes are involved, like in MO) is that glitches and warping, plus a failure to register hits correctly, are pretty common - especially in large-scale fights. An easymode aiming system could very well have given the upper hand in those situations.
I'm a programmer on the game, yes. Thanks for the suggestions, a couple more quick bits of information.
There is a tradeoff with either technique. From the Action Mode side, it will be easier to switch between multiple targets, with the danger of missing them. Where from the RPG mode you have more fine control over ability selection, but must target each opponent specifically then use an ability.
It should be noted that missing a target doesn't mean a complete miss. If you shoot near a target with a ranged weapon or drag near the screen with a melee weapon it tracks the mouse movement. It can use that to perform suppressing fire style abilities, or best guesses of what you were shooting at if it were a single opponent. This basically works using a fallback system. For each type of hit it takes your weapon type into account and then goes from best to worst on the most appropriate abilities. There is a GUI option to display the selection order while in Action Mode, and another to give a visual indication of which ability is chosen either over your head or on the side of the screen (based on if your in first or third person). This will suit people who just like to click and play, but they will be giving up some control.
In the end it's really just up to personal preference. We aren't providing a full scale FPS out of network concerns. But at the same time we took notice of a lot of complaints from users in comment threads of things like, "great the same old boring combat" in many current or upcoming titles, including some of those same thoughts from some of our team.
Personally, I can see both sides. I do feel like RPG combat often feels like the same game, new skin. However, I also burnt out very quickly on all of the twitch based MMOs that I tried, and I do believe that at least part of that was due to tired hands, less breaks in the action and less options. In addition to that, for older gamers with families, it's more difficult to play while watching kids, or dealing with other stuff when your in an action game, as opposed to an RPG which requires less attention. So our goal when introducing the Action or RPG mode options were to try to make a compromise that would allow us to cater to Action game fans without alienating RPG fans.
https://www.therepopulation.com - Sci Fi Sandbox.
The games looks really awesome. Roundhouse kicks ftw. I hope these guys pulls this off, cause we need a sci-fi sandbox MMO now that ER had to shut down. But this one looks alot better then ER. OK, we have Fallen Earth, but it´s not really a sandbox even though I like it alot to. Is there any news on when the BETA will be released yet?
Testing (which we are referring to as Alpha) will begin accepting outside testers in June. We should be releasing application details some time later this month.
https://www.therepopulation.com - Sci Fi Sandbox.
Cool, sounds like some serious thought was put into the combat system. I personally think tab-targeting is getting old, so I support any effort to provide other options.
And I'm sure "action mode" can work technically; Darkfall is great fun combat-wise for example (even though that game doesn't use multiple hitboxes). As long as you manage to strike a balance between the two combat modes, primarily in PvP, the option to switch between them could be a great feature.
Great that the testing starts soon, too. I wish you the best of luck, we really need a game like this.
Yeah, I read that it would start in june, and I´m registered to your site as well. Just have to wait til you release the application details. Will you mail it to all that are regged, or do I need to keep a eye out on your site?