Howdy, Stranger!
It looks like you're new here. If you want to get involved, click one of these buttons!
Quick Links
Gabe flat out lies about ilum "shocking news i know" lol
starwarsnut
Member UncommonPosts: 230
The funniest part of all this i got warning for bumping my own thread even though i responded to it lol.
They definately need to put gabe elsewhere or move things around the pvp is dying BIG time and the amount of qq going on about the sorc/con nerf is through the roof. I tried the new warzone its ok nothing spectacular.
Either way i see this game going f2p sadly. 1.2 should be called the 3 month behind patch. Having a UI as patch update feature is still bizzare to me? The Ui is great in all but why we have to wait for a standard feature is beyond me. They may have 1.7 mil subs now but 6 months from even 3 i dont see this.
I really had a lot of hope for this game and my main goal at cap was to open world pvp and what a joke endgame has become. My gut feeling is when gw2 comes out this game will be just as it is now big pve game with warzones and thats it. I dont have faith in gabe or the devs they thought ilum as it is was awesome and great lol anyone who gone to ilum knows its a pos.
http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?t=363033
Ive waited for over 4 years or so on this game. I was really looking fwd to open world pvp. This video here http://youtu.be/VTgbKxnHIdw at 1:37 or so gabe is claiming 100v100 and this huge massive battle in ilum. Since launch Ilum has been an exploiters paradise and trade killing heaven. Its now been abandoned while they "revamp" it.
qoutes from this article http://games.on.net/article/15061/De...hpoints?page=2
Gabe: Yeah, it is but it’s very basic. I guess the important message there is, we’re well aware of it, and there was some expectation management that we could have done better because what I think happened is, a lot of people heard “Mythic” and “open world PvP” and so a lot of assumptions were made there.
Its not assuming when you claim 100vs100 on a live stage at a game convention. Then proceed to go on this grandios presentation of a ilum that never existed.
We tried to get the message out of “IT’S NOT RvR!” and that it was just open world PvP but still, through second hand information, many people expected big scale RvR. Galactic warfare is something we very much want to do, it’s just not what Ilum is. And we’ll be addressing a bunch of issues there alone.
So here we have you saying 100vs100 and massive huge battles "guerilla style warfare" and now your saying you want to try to do this? after you advertised having this already?
Gabe: Some counterbalancing, yeah I can understand that. The tricky thing about open world PvP is, first off, as far as Ilum goes and just open world PvP across SW:TOR in general, we wanted to get areas in there that players could engage in there when they wanted to, but it was never slated to have a full and robust RvR type system or galactic warfare, tug-of-war type of things. I mean, we want to do it, and the PvP team especially wants to do this sort of thing, of course, but it just wasn’t in the cards leading up to launch. So this is stuff in the future, and that we’re already thinking about and working on.
If it wasnt in the game why was 100vs100 advertised about ilum? You never claimed rvr fair enough.
Gabe: The first things we want to address in open world PvP is the fact that it really depends on the time of the day, the circumstances and situation that you engage in open world PvP is whether or not it’s fun and engaging. And ways you can help control that stuff is to have timed objectives and timed events, like “these things” happen at these times of the day, so it helps concentrate populations in those areas. Also, some balancing systems like, okay there’s this much of the server population in one area from one faction, so this much of the other faction can be in. There are also other things you can introduce like turrets or other handicap devices. But the more of that stuff you do, the less open world PvP it is - the more it becomes matched PvP. So it’s a fine line. Some people like one, some people like the other, and we really wanted to have that as an option based on what the players want. Warzones is matched PvP, maybe not on a grand scale, but it’s matched PvP none the less.
Ilum was never open world pvp it was a pvp side area on ilum. Lets get that straight instanced to hell i might add.
I understand ilum and open world pvp is bieng worked on but i have to be honest im getting tired of bieng lied to i had enough of that in lotro.
Warzones are not the solution to open world pvp.
Faction imbalance is due to rep side bieng lousy and poorly done. No alien races i.e wookies/alien races and the rep storyline are what affecting faction imbalance. You can ignore that issue all you like but take a poll prove me wrong about that 90% of people will agree that the rep side story lines are boring and zzz. Creating same faction pvp isnt the solution either.
Heres how to salvage open world pvp (prove me wrong)
Stop throwing pr at the issue (stating you have the best pvp team doesnt help or stating 100vs100 then later saying you want to do that after advertising that you have)
Real objective base pvp I.E base bosses you have to kill and take over the base.
Move all pve off of ilum. Make all of ilum pvp related not just the side area. This can be done by putting those flashpoints on the fleet where the rest of them are anyways. Then you would have real open world pvp not just the side area
Pvp bases on other planets would have been a better solution to faction imbalance. people cant be everywhere at once if theres to many imps on ilum they could to the tattoine pvp base this would thin out the imbalance to some extent (why this isnt done already i dont know)
Stop worrying about ridiculous things like managed fights or even numbers if you have pvp bases on other planets this will solve that issue regardless of what time of day it is. If people want managed fights they can go to warzones.
lets be open to out of the box ideas. Why not be open to rvr? its appealing to a lot of people gw2 seems to be doing well this idea. Worried about server communities? well to late you still dont have server forums 3 months in.We may have 1.7 mill players now but what would be more impressive is 1.7 6 months from now.
So ill prob get a temp ban for this but i dont care i want this game to succeed and im tired of bieng lied to and i dont want to see a multi million star wars game that i do like turn into rift 2 which its looking more and more like so far.....
Comments
In addition to the OP's points about EA/Bioware verbally lying about the features of this game, notice how all the gameplay video clips are roughly 2 to 3 seconds long with a pause-edit. This is what I've been talking about in other threads. This "camera work" was done intentionally in order to hide how static and lifeless the game is.
EA/Bioware didn't show the game to people - they had their Devs talk about it moreso than demonstrate. And we can see the reasons why.
Re: SWTOR
"Remember, remember - Kakk says 'December.'"
Warzones / Arenas / Battlegrounds = Trash.
This is a MASSIVE MULTIPLAYER game. What the hell is massive about 7v7 or 8v8? What is so grand about playing the same 3 maps over and over and over and over again? I can do that via Battlefield... only with more people and no monthly fee.
Most people that played Battlegrounds were either PvE Server players or players who simply wanted to obtain the gear rewards. It's a shame that because of these numbers, doltish developers think that this should be the dominant form of PvP on PvP Servers.
It's 100% lazy and plastic.
I laughed when he said after completing objectives you could destroy the enemy base.
Aye right, another fib.
And people asking why there is so much "hate" towards SWTOR.
An honest review of SW:TOR 6/10 (Danny Wojcicki)
There are still threads discussing SWTOR PVP?
Move along to another MMO, nothing to see here, LOL.
No serious PVPer is still in this game...
GW2 "built from the ground up with microtransactions in mind"
1) Cash->Gems->Gold->Influence->WvWvWBoosts = PAY2WIN
2) Mystic Chests = Crass in-game cash shop advertisements
Gabe needs to "leave Bioware to pursue his passions".
Nudge nudge, wink wink.
Everyone lies. Specially Suits who's only interest is to make money.
My gaming blog
This is from the Fan Site Summit on Nov 8th, 2011...
We were excited today when BioWare’s Gabe Amatangelo, Lead Endgame Designer for Star Wars: The Old Republic came in to talk to us about this resource-rich planet. He was able to provide some details and answer some very specific questions that have been on the mind of the community.
Ilum is a level 50 end-game zone
About half of the planet’s size is used for the world PvP objective, and it’s a large planet
There are 5 control points in the zone: a Republic and Empire base at the north and south, as well as 3 central resources
All 5 points must be under control simultaneously for victory
Certain control points engage/deploy walkers that can and need to be take down by special shoulder-mounted rocket launchers, and perhaps other means. It takes a good 10 seconds to fire one of these rockets
Victory conditions award a buff that can stack, which awards extra Valor points (earned during other forms of PvP such as Warzones)
This buff is faction-wide
The status is persistent, no timers for the game to artificially start or “reset” – it’s always on
There are rare crafting resources available throughout the zone
Zone can hold hundreds of players
Design accounts for population differences
What's interesting is this was said less than 6 weeks from the head start launch. Also having been a beta player for over a year before the game went live not once did they have us test or make available Ilum other than we could travel to it in the late stages of beta, but none of the features were implemented. I haven't purchased or played the game since the end of beta so I'll let people with first hand knowledge tell me if what Gabe said above is "stretching the truth a bit".
Mhmm... Sure thing Gabe.
I was in beta to and another interesting fact is what happened at 1.1 patch with the turrets is what happend 6 months ago on a daily basis and i bugged it/reported it and posted about saying what was going to happen and sure enough here comes 1.1 the big mess that happened after.
Ilum cant handle 100vs100 it couldnt even handle 20vs20 barely it was lagged to hell.
If the design accounted for population imbalance why were the reps stuck in thier own base 24/7?
then they started instancing ilum to hold even less and what ended up happeneing is everyone spent thier time switchng instances more then pvp'ng
Then you had the lockout to so if even if thier was enough to fight everyone rushed to that instance and hope you got lucky and you werent locked out of that ilum where everyone was fighting.
Not only did they lie they acted like they never said that and you now see gabe at that interview going "its something we would like to do" this is after already bieng on a live stage in front of 100's of people and saying 100vs100.
This is a multi million dollar game bieng self detroyed by stupidity and incompetence.
Well I'm surprised that Ilum didn't raise anyone's red flag, because of the way it was put into beta last minute, so that it couldn't have been tested. Also no one in the public saw Ilum in its true form, until a couple weeks after release (once enough people reached level 50). Well at least it served as a healthy reminder to people that you should only trust the loafty claims made by a dev, when they have the balls to show it off to the public. If a key feature of a game seems to remain underwraps, fairly close to release, then it best to prepare for disappointment. It is why I am concerned the The Secret World's PvP.
Well to be fair I know (for fact) we had close to 200 there (between rebs and imps) pretty early on on Fatman, but it ran like crap. As for design accounts for population difference, their idea was that the usage of five control points would spread players around enough and to a degree that most altercations would be small, they also thought the need to control all points in order to hold the map would ensure that. Problem is that only works if players actually play it as intended.
Instead players decided to use the area as a means to exploit PVP points.
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson
If it can be exploited, it is the developers fault for not testing it enough. Players can only exploit systems with holes in them.
I wouldn't have linked the GW2 video myself as I wouldn't like to incite further bad blood between the fandoms, but I will say that the subject of this thread helps put into perspective the frustrating bashing that goes on in the GW2 forums. Since SWTOR devs lied to you, people believe the GW2 devs are lying as well. It's not a fair assumption to carry over, and it's, frankly, Bioware's fault. We ALL lose because of this behavior. Players shouldn't have to default to the position that they're being misled by the makers of the games they want to play.
So be angrier at Bioware than you are at GW2 fans.
Yeah, I was there too (The Crucible Pits).
I'm not buying the excuses. Broken is broken.
Sure, I ddn't say anything to oppose that. what I was highlighting was this from July 2011,,,
One of the challenges of open world PvP is two factions -- what if one is not populated versus the other? Is there any sort of incentive or anything, any mechanics built in to help balance two faction populations.
Gabe "That is the challenge with open-world PvP, and as soon as you start introducing systems, then it stops becoming open-world PvP to an extent. So what we decided to lean on, and of course we'll be moderating and we might adjust stuff afterwards, but we we're leaning on right now is the mechanics. And like I was saying is that there is five different objectives and you've got to keep all five to have control. If they're 100, they've got them all and they spread like 20 to each objective, and there's only 20 of you, then you're greatly outnumbered.
You can go have a fight at one of those objectives and you can have, theoretically, a fair fight at one of those objectives. As soon as they all start to shift over there, they're leaving some other place so you can go for that point, one of the other assaults, or another base or something to that effect. Now the war activity you have throughout, you keep stacking these war effort buffs, the war buffs enhance how much Valor you get from kills but it also enhances how much Valor you get in a bonus at the end of Warzones as well. So if you're there at 4 AM, and no one is in there, you're like, "Ah, I'm going to go in and take a couple objectives and then run some Warzones." It's like you can build up that buff regardless, so you have a purpose to go there whether there's people there or not."
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson
[Mod Edit]
that aside - the main difference is noone in beta weekends who got to try the game was boosted to level 50 to try out ilum PvP.. whereas in guild wars 2 when you get to test it and i'm sure they'll do one free for all Beta weekend for everyone to try regardless of prepurchase or not.. you will have access to everything PvP related basically.. you can join WvsWvsW, you can join battlegrounds i'll call them.. you wont get to not see how it all works
Hardly a GW2 post.. I mean people can't even use it, briefly, for comparison now? Its not even mentioned in the thread - only via a link! Stop overreacting - I know GW2 fans and SWTOR fans are at each others throats - but not on this occasion.. unless YOU start making it a GW2 vs SWTOR discussion. (too late, you have! heh)
In any case, the point of the previous poster wasn't whether or not people will like the PvP in GW2.. the point was that Anet haven't lied about what they are providing because we've seen it. (again, whether it is good or not is not part of this discussion) On the other hand Bioware implied they would provide 100 vs 100 PvP and did not. People need to learn to be suspicious of devs when they make bold claims about their upcoming game and yet do not show us video evidence.
Missing the point really. The accusation is that Gabe and by extension the TOR devs have lied about the implementation of Ilum and what it would entail. I do believe people speculated what is was going to be like based on who was involved and what was said by the devs at certain times. Thats the issue.
Clearly Master10k wanted to get peoples backs up by posting a GW2 video showing some journos playing in WvWvW, otherwise why do it? Posting that video proves nothing, apart from some people playing an aspect of another game, a game none of you have played yet for any length of time.
It'd be like if I went to the WOW forum and posted, 'Man Blizzard are douches, they promised more PQ's but they lied, unlike RIFT, (link video)'. I'd only ever do that to derail a thread and push my own agenda.
Oh and a piece of advice Master10k, never trust anyone whose after your money, they'll always let you down :P
This looks like a job for....The Riviera Kid!
Legend: --Fact-- --Misleading or Opinion-- --False--
Ilum is a level 50 end-game zone
About half of the planet’s size is used for the world PvP objective, and it’s a large planet
There are 5 control points in the zone: a Republic and Empire base at the north and south, as well as 3 central resources
All 5 points must be under control simultaneously for victory
Certain control points engage/deploy **(non-functional) walkers that can and need to be take down by special shoulder-mounted rocket launchers, and perhaps other means. It takes a good 10 seconds to fire one of these rockets
Victory conditions award a buff that can stack, which awards extra Valor points (earned during other forms of PvP such as Warzones)
This buff is faction-wide
The status is persistent, no timers for the game to artificially start or “reset” – it’s always on
There are rare crafting resources available throughout the zone
Zone can hold hundreds of players
Design accounts for population differences
Its been about a month or two since I unsubbed and quit SWTOR, but I did get two characters to 50, a lv 30 republic side, and a lv 22, and lv 15 empire side. And this is the truth/lies breakdown of all the things said about Ilum. Ilum was the straw that broke the camel's back for me in SWTOR, because my computer would get literally 1-3 FPS during 40v40 battles. I have since then purchased a new mobo, processor, ram, and OS. So please don't tell me to stfu and upgrade my rig. It was TERA that made me contruct the new rig, not the steaming pile SWTOR. And don't jump on me about how much TERA sucks because I just canceled my preorder today. Btw, the last two pink statements I highlighted as pink because I don't ever remember getting a valor boost from the status of Ilum while doing Warzones when que'ing from the Republic Fleet. I could be wrong, but to my knowledge, the only valor boost you EVER got from Ilum's control points was from just straight up killing in Ilum.
Half of ilum (the pvp half) had no resource nodes, and the only "rare" resources in the game were from raid boss drops. None of the resources on the ground in western Ilum were "rare" let alone fought over by people, atleast not on my server.
Thank you kindly for making it clear what made it into the game. I am guessing most if not all of this is to be fixed in 1.2?
Err.. thats what I said. lol.
Well im sorry you're so touchy about the GW2 vs SWTOR thing - but the vid did actually make a valid point. Maybe it could have been made better, but It's not Master10K's responsibility to avoid your over-sensitivity on this matter.
Why bring this up? We haven't played it and hence we cannot fully judge how good it is yet - but we have actually seen it - which was the point if you remember. You said it yourself "what it would entail" not 'how good it will be'.
Translation: Derp, we dun goofed?
What the hell is he even trying to say anyways, because it comes across as he doesn't know what the heck he is talking about.
My favorite part of ths is the "time of day, circumstances and situation" aka "all the time". He doesn't even acknowledge the complete failure of the game engine to support more than 30 people on the same screen without the game crippling to 1-3 FPS.
Ilum is now 100% garbage all the tme.
Gabe does not know what he is doing. This just highlights it.
Please stay on topic. This is not a GW2 thread.
Gordon Walton left to pursue his dream of taking up non-job in a dying industry
Eric Brown left to become Vice-President and CFO of his mother's real estate business
Haden Blackman left to concentrate on his one burning ambition; to dance Giselle before the Tsar himself.