Well, the thing is, sandbox games *have* been done, and they haven't revolutionized the industry.
UO was sandbox. EQ practically steamrolled it.
SWG was sandbox. WOW steamrolled it.
And all of them were as high-profile games as they came in their time. The industry seems to keep going right back to theme parks - so we'll probably just have to accept that the general MMO playerbase leans towards themepark gameplay... Here's hoping it's also OK with a balanced mix of both.
About Copernicus... I like what I've read there. I don't care about sandbox per se, I care about the feeling of a world. If the game manages to do that without being a sandbox, I'm OK with that. I also have no problems with levels or classes, I just want them to mean something - so hopefully no 4-day rush to cap and no mirror classes.
If themeparks were all as loose and open as EQ then I wouldn't feel trapped when playing them.
There were level appropriate areas, but there was no linear path between the vast number of them scattered all around the world. To me, it was undoubtedly more sandbox as your entire experience wasn't dictated at all, I could level up multiple times by randomly exploring places and not repeat areas.
Let's not forget the large level range EQ content allowed for, which added to the open feeling. It was no where near as limited in regard to character level as many games.
So while EQ did have areas with level ranges, those ranges were so large that if you found yourself there, you most likely could take part in the content.
It was a very loose theme park at most, but the unguided open ended world certainly made for a more sandbox experience.
The world was there, the content was there, but players had a lot more choice in how & when they approached it than in standard 'themeparks'. In fact it was probably more sandbox with some themepark components.
Well, the thing is, sandbox games *have* been done, and they haven't revolutionized the industry.
UO was sandbox. EQ practically steamrolled it.
SWG was sandbox. WOW steamrolled it.
And all of them were as high-profile games as they came in their time. The industry seems to keep going right back to theme parks - so we'll probably just have to accept that the general MMO playerbase leans towards themepark gameplay... Here's hoping it's also OK with a balanced mix of both.
About Copernicus... I like what I've read there. I don't care about sandbox per se, I care about the feeling of a world. If the game manages to do that without being a sandbox, I'm OK with that. I also have no problems with levels or classes, I just want them to mean something - so hopefully no 4-day rush to cap and no mirror classes.
I don't know if it's fair to compare a buggy, unpolished game that had serious issues to one that's highly regarded as the most polished game in MMO history and turn around and declare that one was more successful because it was linear rather than open ended.
That just doesn't seem like a realistic assessment of their strengths and weaknesses.
I could easily say that SWG was more successful than Alganon because it was a sandbox rather than a themepark, but I wouldn't for a second believe that was the real reason.
I would also doubt too many people that chose EQ over UO or UO over EQ would site 'Sandbox' or 'Themepark' as the reason. One was first person, one was top down, one was strongly PvP one was strongly PvE. I'd bet those reasons would be sited as stronger influences than sandbox or themepark, which hadn't even been fully defined at that time anyway.
Of course it was a themepark. You went from level appropriate area to level appropriate area to kill things. Then once you hit level cap you tried to get better gear or go to the high level zones later on to grind aa. The level appropriate areas overlapped quite a bit more than in todays games and EQ had a ton of different places to level at, but you still have level appropriate areas to level in. There was no building anything permanent, it had a very robust crafting system and that was the closest thing the game had to a sandbox element. It was not a skill based game, it was level based. You did get better as you used your weapons or magic or other abilities, but that would be like saying vanilla wow was skill based because you had to level your weapon skill.
I guess it all depends on how you describe things. I would rate none of the MMO's before WoW a themepark MMO, while WoW and a lot of other MMO's after WoW were definitely themepark MMO's.
It was skill based in the sense that you had to know your spells well and had to be able to do teamwork well even in the simpler, basic encounters, because you could die really fast otherwise. Encounters brought you closer and faster to losing your health points than WoW or a lot of MMO's after WoW. That's why you had to pay more attention to the fights, they were more challenging and being skilled did make a difference in either dying or staying alive.
EQ also had no real quest leveling like WoW styled themepark MMO's are known for. Sure, there were quests, but even sandbox MMO's have some quests.
EQ was harsh for the newcomer, there was no tutorial, no question marks or easy map that would guide you from quest hub to quest hub, and death was unforgiving, losing XP and having to run from your last bind point all the way to where you died in order to get your equipment back. Basically, you got dropped into the game and from there on you had to figure out what you wanted to do and where you wanted to go.
Those are all traits that are uncharacteristic or lacking at all in themepark MMO's as we've gotten to know them since WoW.
Besides, I have never heard anyone call EQ a themepark MMORPG when it launched and the years after its launch. WoW was the first MMORPG where I started to hear that term, and more and more often since then.
Curt may have been an EQ fan but he is on record saying he prefers WoW and thinks it was a better game and more fun.
Copernicus is going to be another WoW clone. Its going to be generic (like KoA Reckoning) and dull. Book it
KoA being generic and dull is an opinion.
Also why can't we just stop using the term WoW clone? As its inaccurate and lends nothing to a description of a game.
I personally think kingdoms is a great game, it is what Fable always should have been, it takes elements that WORK from many games and puts them together in its own way, with a great story and riveting game play.
Does it reinvent the wheel? No.
Does it make a great wheel? Yes.
I find many reviewers can't wait to step themselves from having fun with prejudiced ideas and quick to judge attitudes.
Curt may have been an EQ fan but he is on record saying he prefers WoW and thinks it was a better game and more fun.
Copernicus is going to be another WoW clone. Its going to be generic (like KoA Reckoning) and dull. Book it
KoA being generic and dull is an opinion.
Also why can't we just stop using the term WoW clone? As its inaccurate and lends nothing to a description of a game.
I personally think kingdoms is a great game, it is what Fable always should have been, it takes elements that WORK from many games and puts them together in its own way, with a great story and riveting game play.
Does it reinvent the wheel? No.
Does it make a great wheel? Yes.
I find many reviewers can't wait to step themselves from having fun with prejudiced ideas and quick to judge attitudes.
I had no prejudiced view of KoA. I bought it hoping for a great solo player RPG. Instead what I got was WoW offline. Thats EXACTLY how it played and the artsyle was clearly heavily influenced by WoW as well.
The ONLY difference between KoA and WoW was KoA's combat was actioney. Well we now know Copernicus will be more tab-target combat. This game is gonna be WoW with KoA's generic as hell, cookie-cutter lore, and a few minor tweaks which dont really change anything.
I had no prejudiced view of KoA. I bought it hoping for a great solo player RPG. Instead what I got was WoW offline. Thats EXACTLY how it played and the artsyle was clearly heavily influenced by WoW as well.
The ONLY difference between KoA and WoW was KoA's combat was actioney. Well we now know Copernicus will be more tab-target combat. This game is gonna be WoW with KoA's generic as hell, cookie-cutter lore, and a few minor tweaks which dont really change anything.
This game SCREAMSWoWclone
Didn't claim you were a reviewer.
Again, you insist on using generic terms that are essentially meaningless.
WoWclone tells us 0% about the game.
Literally.
You might as well post "Its going to be blue!"
Have you played Fable? or Oblivion? or God of War? KoA plays nothing like WoW... If you mean the gear system? Thats been around like that since before Diablo, in 1997, so it can't be that...
Again, you keep saying "its like WoW" yet you give NO examples, and in EVERY single way I can think of that it might be LIKE WoW it simply IS NOT.
you can use generic buzz words like "cookie cutter" "wow clone" and it still does not tell us anything at all about actual FACTS or DETAILS.
Oh and before you say talent trees levels and there is an HP / MP bar, last time I checked WoW didn't invent any of those, nor are they specific to WoW.
I had no prejudiced view of KoA. I bought it hoping for a great solo player RPG. Instead what I got was WoW offline. Thats EXACTLY how it played and the artsyle was clearly heavily influenced by WoW as well.
The ONLY difference between KoA and WoW was KoA's combat was actioney. Well we now know Copernicus will be more tab-target combat. This game is gonna be WoW with KoA's generic as hell, cookie-cutter lore, and a few minor tweaks which dont really change anything.
This game SCREAMSWoWclone
Didn't claim you were a reviewer.
Again, you insist on using generic terms that are essentially meaningless.
WoWclone tells us 0% about the game.
Literally.
You might as well post "Its going to be blue!"
Have you played Fable? or Oblivion? or God of War? KoA plays nothing like WoW... If you mean the gear system? Thats been around like that since before Diablo, in 1997, so it can't be that...
Again, you keep saying "its like WoW" yet you give NO examples, and EVERY single way I can think of that it might be LIKE WoW it simple IS NOT.
you can use generic buzz words like "cookie cutter" "wow clone" and it still does not tell us anything at all about actual FACTS or DETAILS.
Oh and before you say talent trees levels and there is an HP / MP bar, last time I checked WoW didn't invent any of those, nor are they specific to WoW.
KoA
Quest hub leveling? Check
Standard fantasy theme? Check
Color Coded loot just like WoW? Check
Only big difference with this game is the combat. Thats IT. And now that Schilling has come out and said it wont be action combat like in Reckoning that means its gonna be tab-target combat just like WoW! Oh and classes (not the open ended sandbox like skill trees from Reckoning).
Lemme say it again.. WOWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWW CLLOOOOOOONEEEEEEEEE.
You say that term is meaningless and tells people nothing about the game yet I guarantee EVERYONE knows EXACTLY what I mean when I use the term. You just wanna pretend thats not true. Have fun with that. /rollseyes
Quest hub leveling? Check Which last I checked EQ2 and DAoC also had before WoW. Also, MANY MANY RPG's have leveling like this prior and post WoW's inception.
Standard fantasy theme? Check DAoC, UO, EQ1 and 2, AC, AoC ETC also had this before WoW. Also MANY MANY MANY games books and movies have been in this Genre, is Game of Thones a WoW clone?
Color Coded loot just like WoW? Check All the aforementioned games ALSO had this, so did Diablo, and many many many many many RPG's prior to WoW.
Only big difference with this game is the combat. Thats IT. And now that Schilling has come out and said it wont be action combat like in Reckoning that means its gonna be tab-target combat just like WoW! Oh and classes (not the open ended sandbox like skill trees from Reckoning).
Lemme say it again.. WOWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWW CLLOOOOOOONEEEEEEEEE.
You say that term is meaningless and tells people nothing about the game yet I guarantee EVERYONE knows EXACTLY what I mean when I use the term. You just wanna pretend thats not true. Have fun with that. /rollseyes
And saying it with more letters adds 0 meaning.
Do you maybe now understand how silly it is to say "wowclone" to describe a set of things?
Do you see how it literally does NOTHING to describe something?
Yep.
Edit: All saying "Wowclone" does is demonstrate a lack of other valid descriptions for something.
its like resorting to cursing at someone or violence.
once again there's a fail dev making a fail game. And no i'm not holding back my punches because these people need to learn that we the players are tired of the same old crap.
If he continues down this path and keeps his game the same as all the other games out there as far as goals and the themepark model and the long drawn out grind, his game will fail shortly after launch. Sorry but it's true. (or it will dwindle while their financial director gives out the same false number of subs every month in press releases). Either way it's not good.
Nah you would rather support GW2, and their PTW scheme. /golfclap
I have a little more than 100 hrs into Amalur, and 49 of 50 acheivements. Anytime they wanna make more SPGs I will check em out, but I left MMOs in 06. I only come back for the story in TOR.
That said, I think it will be a good game, as Kurt is not only an avid gamer, but he seems to have a good studio he picked up. The guy that designed Amalur is the same one that did Morrowind and Oblivion. Hell if he could keep Brad under wraps, it wouldnt hurt to bring him along, and throw him into the think tank.
It was a wise move not to make a sandbox, as they actually wanna be able to sell copies of the game.
Asking Devs to make AAA sandbox titles is like trying to get fine dining on a McDonalds dollar menu budget.
once again there's a fail dev making a fail game. And no i'm not holding back my punches because these people need to learn that we the players are tired of the same old crap.
If he continues down this path and keeps his game the same as all the other games out there as far as goals and the themepark model and the long drawn out grind, his game will fail shortly after launch. Sorry but it's true. (or it will dwindle while their financial director gives out the same false number of subs every month in press releases). Either way it's not good.
Nah you would rather support GW2, and their PTW scheme. /golfclap
I have a little more than 100 hrs into Amalur, and 49 of 50 acheivements. Anytime they wanna make more SPGs I will check em out, but I left MMOs in 06. I only come back for the story in TOR.
That said, I think it will be a good game, as Kurt is not only an avid gamer, but he seems to have a good studio he picked up. The guy that designed Amalur is the same one that did Morrowind and Oblivion. Hell if he could keep Brad under wraps, it wouldnt hurt to bring him along, and throw him into the think tank.
It was a wise move not to make a sandbox, as they actually wanna be able to sell copies of the game.
Not sure how "not being a lot like World of warcraft's combat system" is automatically "a sandbox".
Most people posting who are upset are mad because he said that there will be a class system, unlike the SRPG, and there will be tab targeting, Unlike the SRPG. So the MMO they are making will be fundamentally different from the SRPG they just released.
They're mad cus they wanted a game more like the SRPG that they made, or at least something different from tab targeting combat and a strict class system with levels and races.
It sounds to me ike many of you want an mmofps....planetside 2 is coming for you. Stop trying to make mmorpgs into mmofps' that genre exist, go play it if you want the "unique" system of twitch combat and EVERYONE being dps.
Its one of the mos t tired arguments on this board. I have an idea tell me what would be new and different(with specifics) that wouldn't be an mmofps, within the frame work of an mmo describe to me what you would do to make it "unique".
Your argument is even more tired. MMO boards, this one and many others, are already filled with threads of mechanics long-gone or never made that still fall within the bounds of "MMO", have nothing to do with twitch-based combat, and that players would like to see. Use the search function.
Funny, because I've been reading these boards for a long time now and have never read anything of the sort. When this discussion comes up its always some one advocatiung twitch mechanics.
you replied in his quote box instead of in your own message.
but he's right, about the part where your cliched complaint has been seen many many many times before.
and what you're suggesting to the people who you are angry at, is extremely illogical and self centered.
I had no prejudiced view of KoA. I bought it hoping for a great solo player RPG. Instead what I got was WoW offline. Thats EXACTLY how it played and the artsyle was clearly heavily influenced by WoW as well.
The ONLY difference between KoA and WoW was KoA's combat was actioney. Well we now know Copernicus will be more tab-target combat. This game is gonna be WoW with KoA's generic as hell, cookie-cutter lore, and a few minor tweaks which dont really change anything.
This game SCREAMSWoWclone
Didn't claim you were a reviewer.
Again, you insist on using generic terms that are essentially meaningless.
WoWclone tells us 0% about the game.
Literally.
You might as well post "Its going to be blue!"
Have you played Fable? or Oblivion? or God of War? KoA plays nothing like WoW... If you mean the gear system? Thats been around like that since before Diablo, in 1997, so it can't be that...
Again, you keep saying "its like WoW" yet you give NO examples, and EVERY single way I can think of that it might be LIKE WoW it simple IS NOT.
you can use generic buzz words like "cookie cutter" "wow clone" and it still does not tell us anything at all about actual FACTS or DETAILS.
Oh and before you say talent trees levels and there is an HP / MP bar, last time I checked WoW didn't invent any of those, nor are they specific to WoW.
KoA
Quest hub leveling? Check
Standard fantasy theme? Check
Color Coded loot just like WoW? Check
Only big difference with this game is the combat. Thats IT. And now that Schilling has come out and said it wont be action combat like in Reckoning that means its gonna be tab-target combat just like WoW! Oh and classes (not the open ended sandbox like skill trees from Reckoning).
Lemme say it again.. WOWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWW CLLOOOOOOONEEEEEEEEE.
You say that term is meaningless and tells people nothing about the game yet I guarantee EVERYONE knows EXACTLY what I mean when I use the term. You just wanna pretend thats not true. Have fun with that. /rollseyes
It was a wise move not to make a sandbox, as they actually wanna be able to sell copies of the game.
Skyrim's 10 million+ sales agree with you.
From a game touted as being from R.A. Salvatore ( the ingame story sucks ass ), McFarlane ( the graphics were apparently created after a long WoW session, still think Blizzard should sue over the gnomes alone lol ), and an idiot who claims to have been a main influence behind The Elder Scrolls ( who somehow managed to design a by-the-book-themepark ), to me Amular is nothing but an early warning system to let people know to stay away from any mmo these jokers could ever make.
-Letting Derek Smart work on your game is like letting Osama bin Laden work in the White House. Something will burn.- -And on the 8th day, man created God.-
Bad news all around... Especially after seeing what KoA had to offer.
My hope for this game just went waaaaaaay down.
Actually , i could swallow all that , if the game had KOA action combat.
Obviously it does not...
No wonder they kept it secret for so long - because of shame
Yeah gonna agree with Lobotomist on this one, the KOA combat would go a long ways when it comes time for players to overlook things they don't like. Without it.....
Its kind of a screw you for them to hire on someone like Ken Rolston and then NOT go the skill based sandbox route. Many followed this game specifically for that. I mean come on it's Ken Rolston.........why would you hire him on if there was no intent on a sandbox?
Then it's even more of a screw you to the fan base when they release KOA, get praise for the combat and turn around and say meh, were not going that route for the MMO.
Have to say I'm more than a bit dissapointed in the recent news regarding Copernicus and will go the wait and see what launches route. No pre-orders, no pre-purchase, etc.
I can't help but think they are making the same mistakes as many other post-WoW game so far released has made.
2 factions
Themepark
WoW/EQ combat
Quest-grind
Traditional western fantasy, Elves, Gnomes etc
I'm a fan of fantasy, but what seems to be going into this game seems awfully, can it be said of fantasy? "Mainstream", insofar as it uses very familiar settings, races, classes, plot devices and the saturation of the fantasy MMO is so high I've really lost my taste for it, so much so it may be the 1 thing keeping me in SWTOR right now & that's becoming more a case of playing it while waiting for TSW.
Will still keep tabs on it, but I think it's looking more like a destination for short-term game tourists (aka game-hoppers). Much like everything else since WoW.
It was a wise move not to make a sandbox, as they actually wanna be able to sell copies of the game.
Skyrim's 10 million+ sales agree with you.
From a game touted as being from R.A. Salvatore ( the ingame story sucks ass ), McFarlane ( the graphics were apparently created after a long WoW session, still think Blizzard should sue over the gnomes alone lol ), and an idiot who claims to have been a main influence behind The Elder Scrolls ( who somehow managed to design a by-the-book-themepark ), to me Amular is nothing but an early warning system to let people know to stay away from any mmo these jokers could ever make.
Skyrim pretty much plays like EQ, and not SWG. Same with GTA, Red Dead Redemption, and pretty much any other major SP "sandbox" out there save minecraft.
Until Skyrim offers a pure Uncle Owen class, and has you creating content in game vs devouring pre made stuff, dont even think to compare it to a MMO sandbox. Like I said, MMO sandboxes dont sell worth shit. Which is why you dont see AAA production of them these days.
Asking Devs to make AAA sandbox titles is like trying to get fine dining on a McDonalds dollar menu budget.
I can't help but think they are making the same mistakes as many other post-WoW game so far released has made.
2 factions
Themepark
WoW/EQ combat
Quest-grind
Traditional western fantasy, Elves, Gnomes etc
I'm a fan of fantasy, but what seems to be going into this game seems awfully, can it be said of fantasy? "Mainstream", insofar as it uses very familiar settings, races, classes, plot devices and the saturation of the fantasy MMO is so high I've really lost my taste for it, so much so it may be the 1 thing keeping me in SWTOR right now & that's becoming more a case of playing it while waiting for TSW.
Will still keep tabs on it, but I think it's looking more like a destination for short-term game tourists (aka game-hoppers). Much like everything else since WoW.
Actually it isnt a bad thing if they make their money back on boxes alone, and then profit off whatever subs remain. What hurts is last I heard they had only pushed between 400 and 400k copies of Amular. It helps to have a built in fan base.
Asking Devs to make AAA sandbox titles is like trying to get fine dining on a McDonalds dollar menu budget.
It sounds to me ike many of you want an mmofps....planetside 2 is coming for you. Stop trying to make mmorpgs into mmofps' that genre exist, go play it if you want the "unique" system of twitch combat and EVERYONE being dps.
Its one of the mos t tired arguments on this board. I have an idea tell me what would be new and different(with specifics) that wouldn't be an mmofps, within the frame work of an mmo describe to me what you would do to make it "unique".
Your argument is even more tired. MMO boards, this one and many others, are already filled with threads of mechanics long-gone or never made that still fall within the bounds of "MMO", have nothing to do with twitch-based combat, and that players would like to see. Use the search function.
Funny, because I've been reading these boards for a long time now and have never read anything of the sort. When this discussion comes up its always some one advocatiung twitch mechanics.
you replied in his quote box instead of in your own message.
but he's right, about the part where your cliched complaint has been seen many many many times before.
and what you're suggesting to the people who you are angry at, is extremely illogical and self centered.
And yet you haven't given me one example; there is a reason cliches are used; there is a grain of truth to them. My point was very logical, your calling it illogical is an emotional response based on your butt hurt. You guys never give examples of what would be "new" or "original" other than fps mechanics., and you almost never see a thread about it unles it is touting the virtues of fps mechanics and again I say to you...............if you want an mmofps play one, there are some now and several in developement at this very moment.
Comments
Well, the thing is, sandbox games *have* been done, and they haven't revolutionized the industry.
UO was sandbox. EQ practically steamrolled it.
SWG was sandbox. WOW steamrolled it.
And all of them were as high-profile games as they came in their time. The industry seems to keep going right back to theme parks - so we'll probably just have to accept that the general MMO playerbase leans towards themepark gameplay... Here's hoping it's also OK with a balanced mix of both.
About Copernicus... I like what I've read there. I don't care about sandbox per se, I care about the feeling of a world. If the game manages to do that without being a sandbox, I'm OK with that. I also have no problems with levels or classes, I just want them to mean something - so hopefully no 4-day rush to cap and no mirror classes.
Basic mmo with a twist of lemon. I have heard this before but I just can't remember where....
Grim Dawn, the next great action rpg!
http://www.grimdawn.com/
If themeparks were all as loose and open as EQ then I wouldn't feel trapped when playing them.
There were level appropriate areas, but there was no linear path between the vast number of them scattered all around the world. To me, it was undoubtedly more sandbox as your entire experience wasn't dictated at all, I could level up multiple times by randomly exploring places and not repeat areas.
Let's not forget the large level range EQ content allowed for, which added to the open feeling. It was no where near as limited in regard to character level as many games.
So while EQ did have areas with level ranges, those ranges were so large that if you found yourself there, you most likely could take part in the content.
It was a very loose theme park at most, but the unguided open ended world certainly made for a more sandbox experience.
The world was there, the content was there, but players had a lot more choice in how & when they approached it than in standard 'themeparks'. In fact it was probably more sandbox with some themepark components.
I don't know if it's fair to compare a buggy, unpolished game that had serious issues to one that's highly regarded as the most polished game in MMO history and turn around and declare that one was more successful because it was linear rather than open ended.
That just doesn't seem like a realistic assessment of their strengths and weaknesses.
I could easily say that SWG was more successful than Alganon because it was a sandbox rather than a themepark, but I wouldn't for a second believe that was the real reason.
I would also doubt too many people that chose EQ over UO or UO over EQ would site 'Sandbox' or 'Themepark' as the reason. One was first person, one was top down, one was strongly PvP one was strongly PvE. I'd bet those reasons would be sited as stronger influences than sandbox or themepark, which hadn't even been fully defined at that time anyway.
I guess it all depends on how you describe things. I would rate none of the MMO's before WoW a themepark MMO, while WoW and a lot of other MMO's after WoW were definitely themepark MMO's.
It was skill based in the sense that you had to know your spells well and had to be able to do teamwork well even in the simpler, basic encounters, because you could die really fast otherwise. Encounters brought you closer and faster to losing your health points than WoW or a lot of MMO's after WoW. That's why you had to pay more attention to the fights, they were more challenging and being skilled did make a difference in either dying or staying alive.
EQ also had no real quest leveling like WoW styled themepark MMO's are known for. Sure, there were quests, but even sandbox MMO's have some quests.
EQ was harsh for the newcomer, there was no tutorial, no question marks or easy map that would guide you from quest hub to quest hub, and death was unforgiving, losing XP and having to run from your last bind point all the way to where you died in order to get your equipment back. Basically, you got dropped into the game and from there on you had to figure out what you wanted to do and where you wanted to go.
Those are all traits that are uncharacteristic or lacking at all in themepark MMO's as we've gotten to know them since WoW.
Besides, I have never heard anyone call EQ a themepark MMORPG when it launched and the years after its launch. WoW was the first MMORPG where I started to hear that term, and more and more often since then.
Curt may have been an EQ fan but he is on record saying he prefers WoW and thinks it was a better game and more fun.
Copernicus is going to be another WoW clone. Its going to be generic (like KoA Reckoning) and dull. Book it
KoA being generic and dull is an opinion.
Also why can't we just stop using the term WoW clone? As its inaccurate and lends nothing to a description of a game.
I personally think kingdoms is a great game, it is what Fable always should have been, it takes elements that WORK from many games and puts them together in its own way, with a great story and riveting game play.
Does it reinvent the wheel? No.
Does it make a great wheel? Yes.
I find many reviewers can't wait to step themselves from having fun with prejudiced ideas and quick to judge attitudes.
I had no prejudiced view of KoA. I bought it hoping for a great solo player RPG. Instead what I got was WoW offline. Thats EXACTLY how it played and the artsyle was clearly heavily influenced by WoW as well.
The ONLY difference between KoA and WoW was KoA's combat was actioney. Well we now know Copernicus will be more tab-target combat. This game is gonna be WoW with KoA's generic as hell, cookie-cutter lore, and a few minor tweaks which dont really change anything.
This game SCREAMS WoWclone
Didn't claim you were a reviewer.
Again, you insist on using generic terms that are essentially meaningless.
WoWclone tells us 0% about the game.
Literally.
You might as well post "Its going to be blue!"
Have you played Fable? or Oblivion? or God of War? KoA plays nothing like WoW... If you mean the gear system? Thats been around like that since before Diablo, in 1997, so it can't be that...
Again, you keep saying "its like WoW" yet you give NO examples, and in EVERY single way I can think of that it might be LIKE WoW it simply IS NOT.
you can use generic buzz words like "cookie cutter" "wow clone" and it still does not tell us anything at all about actual FACTS or DETAILS.
Oh and before you say talent trees levels and there is an HP / MP bar, last time I checked WoW didn't invent any of those, nor are they specific to WoW.
This thread is a glorious example of the mmorpg.com mindset that "innovation means cloning UO and SWG, rather than cloning EQ and WoW."
KoA
Quest hub leveling? Check
Standard fantasy theme? Check
Color Coded loot just like WoW? Check
Only big difference with this game is the combat. Thats IT. And now that Schilling has come out and said it wont be action combat like in Reckoning that means its gonna be tab-target combat just like WoW! Oh and classes (not the open ended sandbox like skill trees from Reckoning).
Lemme say it again.. WOWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWW CLLOOOOOOONEEEEEEEEE.
You say that term is meaningless and tells people nothing about the game yet I guarantee EVERYONE knows EXACTLY what I mean when I use the term. You just wanna pretend thats not true. Have fun with that. /rollseyes
And saying it with more letters adds 0 meaning.
Do you maybe now understand how silly it is to say "wowclone" to describe a set of things?
Do you see how it literally does NOTHING to describe something?
Yep.
Edit: All saying "Wowclone" does is demonstrate a lack of other valid descriptions for something.
its like resorting to cursing at someone or violence.
Nah you would rather support GW2, and their PTW scheme. /golfclap
I have a little more than 100 hrs into Amalur, and 49 of 50 acheivements. Anytime they wanna make more SPGs I will check em out, but I left MMOs in 06. I only come back for the story in TOR.
That said, I think it will be a good game, as Kurt is not only an avid gamer, but he seems to have a good studio he picked up. The guy that designed Amalur is the same one that did Morrowind and Oblivion. Hell if he could keep Brad under wraps, it wouldnt hurt to bring him along, and throw him into the think tank.
It was a wise move not to make a sandbox, as they actually wanna be able to sell copies of the game.
Asking Devs to make AAA sandbox titles is like trying to get fine dining on a McDonalds dollar menu budget.
Not sure how "not being a lot like World of warcraft's combat system" is automatically "a sandbox".
Most people posting who are upset are mad because he said that there will be a class system, unlike the SRPG, and there will be tab targeting, Unlike the SRPG. So the MMO they are making will be fundamentally different from the SRPG they just released.
They're mad cus they wanted a game more like the SRPG that they made, or at least something different from tab targeting combat and a strict class system with levels and races.
you replied in his quote box instead of in your own message.
but he's right, about the part where your cliched complaint has been seen many many many times before.
and what you're suggesting to the people who you are angry at, is extremely illogical and self centered.
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Corpus Callosum
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Shhhhh.
Skyrim's 10 million+ sales agree with you.
From a game touted as being from R.A. Salvatore ( the ingame story sucks ass ), McFarlane ( the graphics were apparently created after a long WoW session, still think Blizzard should sue over the gnomes alone lol ), and an idiot who claims to have been a main influence behind The Elder Scrolls ( who somehow managed to design a by-the-book-themepark ), to me Amular is nothing but an early warning system to let people know to stay away from any mmo these jokers could ever make.
-Letting Derek Smart work on your game is like letting Osama bin Laden work in the White House. Something will burn.-
-And on the 8th day, man created God.-
Actually , i could swallow all that , if the game had KOA action combat.
Obviously it does not...
No wonder they kept it secret for so long - because of shame
Yeah gonna agree with Lobotomist on this one, the KOA combat would go a long ways when it comes time for players to overlook things they don't like. Without it.....
Its kind of a screw you for them to hire on someone like Ken Rolston and then NOT go the skill based sandbox route. Many followed this game specifically for that. I mean come on it's Ken Rolston.........why would you hire him on if there was no intent on a sandbox?
Then it's even more of a screw you to the fan base when they release KOA, get praise for the combat and turn around and say meh, were not going that route for the MMO.
Have to say I'm more than a bit dissapointed in the recent news regarding Copernicus and will go the wait and see what launches route. No pre-orders, no pre-purchase, etc.
Not to add to the fire, but in another foh post Curt also confirmed it will be yet another 2 faction game. But except with a twist.
I can't help but think they are making the same mistakes as many other post-WoW game so far released has made.
2 factions
Themepark
WoW/EQ combat
Quest-grind
Traditional western fantasy, Elves, Gnomes etc
I'm a fan of fantasy, but what seems to be going into this game seems awfully, can it be said of fantasy? "Mainstream", insofar as it uses very familiar settings, races, classes, plot devices and the saturation of the fantasy MMO is so high I've really lost my taste for it, so much so it may be the 1 thing keeping me in SWTOR right now & that's becoming more a case of playing it while waiting for TSW.
Will still keep tabs on it, but I think it's looking more like a destination for short-term game tourists (aka game-hoppers). Much like everything else since WoW.
Skyrim pretty much plays like EQ, and not SWG. Same with GTA, Red Dead Redemption, and pretty much any other major SP "sandbox" out there save minecraft.
Until Skyrim offers a pure Uncle Owen class, and has you creating content in game vs devouring pre made stuff, dont even think to compare it to a MMO sandbox. Like I said, MMO sandboxes dont sell worth shit. Which is why you dont see AAA production of them these days.
Asking Devs to make AAA sandbox titles is like trying to get fine dining on a McDonalds dollar menu budget.
Actually it isnt a bad thing if they make their money back on boxes alone, and then profit off whatever subs remain. What hurts is last I heard they had only pushed between 400 and 400k copies of Amular. It helps to have a built in fan base.
Asking Devs to make AAA sandbox titles is like trying to get fine dining on a McDonalds dollar menu budget.
Yea agreed, it would be cool if they implement KOA combat instead of tab targeting.
Pardon my English as it is not my 1st language
And yet you haven't given me one example; there is a reason cliches are used; there is a grain of truth to them. My point was very logical, your calling it illogical is an emotional response based on your butt hurt. You guys never give examples of what would be "new" or "original" other than fps mechanics., and you almost never see a thread about it unles it is touting the virtues of fps mechanics and again I say to you...............if you want an mmofps play one, there are some now and several in developement at this very moment.