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Trayvon Martin's Shooting
AutemOx
Member Posts: 1,704
This is a big topic in the news these days (although according to some sites, Fox has only covered it once, lol).... The thing I find interesting about it personally is how wildly varied the articles about it are. Some of them contain incredibly obvious bias in one direction or the other, suggestive language, etc. It is obviously a really emotional topic because the boy killed was a minor (17) and people have strong feelings about it because the majority believe there could be racist motives in the shooting.
What are you opinions on it?
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Comments
One of the things that is interesting is theres a lot of claims being made and I am not sure if they are fact or just people making stuff up on various blogs and comment section of news sites. Let me know if you think these are true or false and why (evidence maybe?):
1) The location of the scuffle is not 'on the way' home from the store Trayvon was at, suggesting that he took 'the long way home' to walk by these houses despite the rain. Do we have google maps location of the 3 places?
2) Zimmerman was injured. (& to what extent?) Was Trayvon injured aside from the gunshot wound (indicating he was being beat up by zimmerman before being shot)?
3) We know that Zimmerman has called the police many times, but how many times were these calls about black males? According to some sources, all his calls were regarding black males but I am not sure if I trust them.
4) Why are the pictures of Trayvon so dated? One article said that he was a 6’3 140lb football player, but the kid in the picture looks tiny. And Zimmerman is 5’2 correct? Over a foot shorter and overweight for his height and he was supposed to have the upperhand?
5) Zimmerman went door to door warning residents to be on the lookout for "young black men who appear to be outsiders". Was this the description of the burglar in his neighborhood, or something he invented?
I realize none of these questions really answer the question most relevant to our justice system, which is "who attacked first?" We probably will not ever know, but I am still curious.
Play as your fav retro characters: cnd-online.net. My site: www.lysle.net. Blog: creatingaworld.blogspot.com.
I've heard it both ways to be honest.
One account has Zimmerman peacefully following Martin because he thought the kid was involved in something illegal, then firing in self defense after Martin starts beating the shit out of him for little to no good reason.
Another has Zimmerman following Martin for quite some time, harrasing him the entire way. Then shooting the kid the moment he became frustrated enough to become aggresive.
It really is tough to say, Zimmermen was no saint, and Martin had no track record for crimes. That doesn't necessarily mean much however.
No man is an island, entire of itself; every man is a piece of the continent, a part of the main. any man's death diminishes me, because I am involved in mankind, and therefore never send to know for whom the bell tolls; it tolls for thee.
Hemingway
From my perspective as a lawyer, who attacked first isnt the most relevant thing. The relevant thing is 'who acted in a threatening manner first.' Florida's self-defense rule would have in fact protected the kid Trayvon based on what we know. Because Zimmerman followed him by his own admission, Trayvon could have reasonably been afraid for his safety and justifiably attacked Zimmerman. Zimmerman can not then claim self-defense, he coudln't have 'reasonably' been afraid of a smaller kid armed with candy. Zimmerman was the first aggressor. Reasonably is important here, it is an objective not subjective standard, in other words, it doesn't matter if he thought he needed to defend himself, if it didn't make sense to a rational person.
Explained better here:
Trayvon Martin: "Stand Your Ground" Rule Has NOTHING To Do With This Case
http://dissentingjustice.blogspot.com/
"Never met a pack of humans that were any different. Look at the idiots that get elected every couple of years. You really consider those guys more mature than us? The only difference between us and them is, when they gank some noobs and take their stuff, the noobs actually die." - Madimorga
From everything I've read about this case he should be arrested as no one in their right mind could possibly believe this guy was at all threatened by a kid armed with Skittles. All the evedence shows Zimmerman was the aggressor from the moment he decided to ignore the police order to stand down. He in essence 'hunted' this kid down and killed him. There should be a serious investigation of the Sanford Police dept. after the state and federal investigations show there was no self defence in this case.
Bren
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Why not? It is clear that zimmerman thought the kid was up to something. Whether or not it was reasonable for him to assume Martin was up to something illegal, it is not unreasonable for someone to assume that a criminal is armed with something a bit more potent than skittles.
Bear in mind, I'm not defending this guy. All I'm trying to say here is that we are missing quite a few critical details.
No man is an island, entire of itself; every man is a piece of the continent, a part of the main. any man's death diminishes me, because I am involved in mankind, and therefore never send to know for whom the bell tolls; it tolls for thee.
Hemingway
Subjective impressions of anyone can not be the basis for lawful suspicion. If that were true, the lawful concerns of the mentally ill would give them the right to hunt down all the demons, AKA innocent bystanders, that they wanted to. And your sentence is a bit insane. "it is not unreasonable for someone to assume that a criminal is armed with something a bit more potent than skittles." A criminal? maybe, but a kid walking by minding his own business does not equal a criminal just because he is black.
"Never met a pack of humans that were any different. Look at the idiots that get elected every couple of years. You really consider those guys more mature than us? The only difference between us and them is, when they gank some noobs and take their stuff, the noobs actually die." - Madimorga
When you're a member of a neighborhood watch and the police dispatcher gives you a direct order to stand down and let the officers that are on the way handle it... You do as they say. This guy didn't which made him the aggressor from that point on. Also the law only allows self defence with equal force even in Florida. Unless Skittles = Gun now I think we can say that Zimmerman used excessive force in this case. Also from the phone records and what witnesses in the area heard Martin was just trying to get away from Zimmerman which is far from an aggressive stance. You are right we don't have all the facts but we have enough to know this guy Zimmerman should be behind bars right now.
Bren
while(horse==dead)
{
beat();
}
Its really sad to see a teen get killed like that by someone who could have abused the law.
"I heard screaming and crying for help," he said. "I heard, 'Help me.' "
It was dark, and the boy did not see how the fight started, in fact, he only saw one person, a man in a red shirt — Zimmerman — who was on the ground.
The boy said he is not sure who called for help. After a moment, his dog escaped, and he turned to catch it and a few seconds later heard a gunshot, he said.
http://www.orlandosentinel.com/news/local/os-trayvon-martin-shooting-zimmerman-letter-20120315,0,1716605.story
George is a Spanish speaking minority with many black family members and friends. He would be the last to discriminate for any reason whatsoever. One black neighbor recently interviewed said she knew everything in the media was untrue and that she would trust George with her life. Another black neighbor said that George was the only one, black or white, who came and welcomed her to the community, offering any assistance he could provide. Recently, I met two black children George invited to a social event. I asked where they met George. They responded that he was their mentor. They said George visited them routinely, took them places, helped them, and taught them things and that they really loved George. The media portrayal of George as a racist could not be further from the truth.
http://www.orlandosentinel.com/news/local/os-trayvon-martin-shooting-zimmerman-letter-20120315,0,1716605.story
Oh boy..
"The guy on the bottom, who had a red sweater on, was yelling to me, 'Help! Help!' and I told him to stop, and I was calling 911," said the witness, who asked to be identified only by his first name, John.
John said he locked his patio door, ran upstairs and heard at least one gun shot.
"And then, when I got upstairs and looked down, the guy who was on the top beating up the other guy, was the one laying in the grass, and I believe he was dead at that point."
http://www.myfoxorlando.com/dpp/news/seminole_news/022712-man-shot-and-killed-in-neighborhood-altercation#ixzz1psl6kczn Report Abuse 0 0
Whats up with the media branding this killing a hate crime?
Thats interesting, pretty much every news outlet is ignoring this and acting like the only witness was Zimmerman himself. I think people hear 'teen' and see the old picture of Trayvon when he was a child and think that theres no possibility that this kid (over a foot taller than zimmerman) could beat the shit out of a grown man. But they are wrong... A lot of 17 year olds are stronger, faster, and could get the upperhand on a 30~ year old.
Play as your fav retro characters: cnd-online.net. My site: www.lysle.net. Blog: creatingaworld.blogspot.com.
The media and the race baiters have pretty much convicted Zimmerman so it doesnt really matter what the facts are.
Police where I live (the Seattle area) routinely shoot and kill unarmed "suspects" when they try to flee, or when they fail to immediately comply with an instruction. And in fact, this kind of summary execution has now almost become accepted policy. And it is never prosecuted.
So it seems to me a natural extension that we empower our citizens with the same right. I mean - if we're going to win the war on crime, and potential crime, a few eggs are going to get broken. And this is a price we as a society have apparently decided we are willing to pay.
Witness: Martin attacked Zimmerman
http://www.myfoxtampabay.com/dpp/news/state/witness-martin-attacked-zimmerman-03232012
Big fucking deal. Someone was shot and killed. It happens all over the world, every day. There is nothing special about this kid's death. Move along and get over it.
Trayvon Martin case: 'Blacks are under attack,' says Jesse Jackson
http://www.latimes.com/news/nation/nationnow/la-na-nn-trayvon-martin-case-jesse-jackson-20120323,0,2131299.story
Is anyone else disturbed that fox is the only news group to mention the eye witness...? I want this case to go away so I can go back to hating fox and murdoch for their bulls***.
Play as your fav retro characters: cnd-online.net. My site: www.lysle.net. Blog: creatingaworld.blogspot.com.
Well, lets see:
-Fox has an interest in downplaying the crazy gun nut vigilante, as well as racism, angles
-The other networks have an interest in exaggerating those same angles
-All of them have proven themselves more than willing to stretch or suppress the truth as it suits them, generally only stopping just short of outright lies.
So am I disturbed? I should be, but it is kind of hard to feel that way when discussing a tactic that is a normal mode of business.
No man is an island, entire of itself; every man is a piece of the continent, a part of the main. any man's death diminishes me, because I am involved in mankind, and therefore never send to know for whom the bell tolls; it tolls for thee.
Hemingway
I know that city all too well.
It's highly segregated.
It has a significant crime rate that mostly consists of robbery (a lot of armed robbery).
Most of the crime in that area is perpetrated by young, black males.
Now consider the following situation:
A young, black male in questionable attire who you had never seen before enters your community, which is gated (albeit not actively guarded, like many there are) and behaves suspiciously.
Since nearly everybody in that city is armed with a gun, people just don't wander off into gated communities without reason; the only time you'd ever see somebody where they wouldn't be expected to be is if they were committing a crime. Wandering salesmen are nowhere to be found there, not even in the affluent neighborhoods (especially not, since they are usually out of the way, or gated).
Good samaritan A notices this suspicious person and has reason to believe that his neighbor is going to be robbed by him. Good samaritan A kindly asks this person why he is there, since he doesn't recognize him. This suspicious person refuses to answer him and starts becoming angry/aggressive.
The good samaritan who was trying to prevent his neighbor from getting robbed is eventually attacked, since he refuses to let this suspicious person wander around his neighbors apartment/yard.
Since he is dwarfed by his assailant, he uses his firearm that he has equipped and kills him.
Knowing that city and its culture, the above is the most likely scenario.
You don't take shortcuts to get home through gated neighborhoods in that city.
You don't take strolls around gated neighborhoods in that city due to its crime rate and the high percentage of armed people.
You don't do any of the aforementioned, unless you're in desperate need of help, or.. you want to commit a crime.. or.. you're severely mentally handicapped.
Maybe he was being stupid and really wanted to take a different route home, but if he did, then why did he attack the guy? Since he had attacked first, it pretty much gives away his motive for being there. He thought he had the upper hand on somebody who was a foot shorter than he was and he would have been right had he not been armed.
Hopefully, some of you will read through that wall, because it is likely applicable .. and this thread will get closed soon.
This is a sequence of characters intended to produce some profound mental effect, but it has failed.
Zimmerman is a POS I know cops, my father and brother specifically, who would not shoot a guy armed with a knife (eventhough it is quite legal) and would wrestle the guy instead. This is what happens when civilians take police powers in their own hands, needless deaths. Stand Your Ground & Castle Laws are a biunch of crap with regard to the not having to back down from an altercation & the protection of property. There should only be self-defense laws that state you only use leathal force when threatened with leathal force. Both of these other types of laws state you can use leathal force in cases where your life is not threatened (there was also a case of a Houston man blowing away an unarmed burglar who was fleeing in cold blood, he got off because of Castle Law).
This guy shot an unarmed kid, this shoot first culture is rather pathetic and cowardly.
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--In MMORPG's l007 is the opiate of the masses.
--The absence of evidence is not the evidence of absence!
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So a guy who can't defend himself without shooting someone is "protecting the community?" OK, more likely he is a POS who was looking to cap someone, well he caapped a little kid. The guy is scum pure and simple. If the POS had any honor, he'd put that gun in his mouth and blow out his own brainstem.
--When you resubscribe to SWG, an 18 yearold Stripper finds Jesus, gives up stripping, and moves with a rolex reverend to Hawaii.
--In MMORPG's l007 is the opiate of the masses.
--The absence of evidence is not the evidence of absence!
--CCP could cut off an Eve player's fun bits, and that player would say that it was good CCP did that.
No that witness never said who stated the fight, only who was winning the fight (if the witness is speaking the truth).
--When you resubscribe to SWG, an 18 yearold Stripper finds Jesus, gives up stripping, and moves with a rolex reverend to Hawaii.
--In MMORPG's l007 is the opiate of the masses.
--The absence of evidence is not the evidence of absence!
--CCP could cut off an Eve player's fun bits, and that player would say that it was good CCP did that.