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List of Upcoming MMO's without Pay2Win cash shop?
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Like what? Even using gold to buy influence only hs value directly in the area of a fort you control in WvW, and that benefits your entire server. All 80 armors are comparable, as are weapons, so you can't buy power that way... if you're buying crafted consumables, well, anyone can make 'em or sell 'em... There's really nothing you can get that makes you more powerful in PvP, structured or chaotic.
Oderint, dum metuant.
And another addition to the GW2 + cash shop thing. First of all, i dont know how it will be, i dont know what you can buy there, or if it is pay to win or not.
But let me paint a scenario, where it is just not important what you get at the cash shop, if it is subject to the same restriction as any other item in the world.
Lets say they have game full of content, where you can experience around 100 hours of gameplay to reach max. level, full of unique interesting gameplay. And lets further asume that all items will be capped(stats wise) at max level. So there is just a max point of power you can reach, and let further assume you will reach it within those 100 hours of gameplay.
At the endgame are different things to play available, like Dungeons, Dynamic Events and all the other stuff, but everyone will be forced equal(power wise), because the item stats are capped. Now, would it affect the game, if you could buy items in a cash shop, which are subject of the same restriction? I would think no. Because if someone really wants to buy XP boosts to go faster through the 100 hours gameplay, he would most certainly faster there than me, but what would be the point of it?
Nothing.. just nothing, he just cut off a lot of content.. or in GW2 with sidekicking would play it later on. But it wouldnt really affect me, because in the end, after 100 hours of gameplay we would be again on a even ground.
And the truth is, such a item cap is nothing new. In old DAoC with the Shrouded Island Expansion you got exactly that. Everyone could wear a spell crafted armor/weapon, and everyone was forced under the same stat cap. Everyone was equal stat wise. And that was one reason because the RvR in DAoC was that interesting.. ok, you got the RealmRanks which broken up these equality, but without Realm Ranks everyone would be the same at lvl 50. And in such a scenario it isnt important if you can buy stuff from the cash shop, as long as everyone got it with a reasonable amount of time. If you had to grind for those equal armors, the cash shop would be indeed at least to some point Win to Pay.
All that said, and as much as i think about the GW2 cash shop, we dont know if it will really affect the game, or not. We dont know if it will be some kind of Pay to Win or not.
I asked the question because I want to make people think about why they accept something and where they draw the line. From your response, it sounds like you, personally, would be okay even if games sold item mall items which boosted the exp gain by 500%. So the follow-up question would be: would you be okay if the company sold a "instantly level to max level with one click of a button"-item in their item mall? If you are still fine with that, then I would suspect that you have a very rare opinion, but you are indeed entitled to it. If you are not fine: explain why and where you draw the line.
Keep upgrades and items that make your character personally more powerful
.
Also, I would like to bring up that we really don't know how much these blueprints and keep upgrades will cost. If they cost A LOT of gold, then buying gold for cash may actually give an advantage.
Are you team Azeroth, team Tyria, or team Jacob?
He's not going to answer this question because if he answers it truthfully it destroys his argument.
/thread
Why don't you log into the second consecutive free weekend of your favorite game, gainesvilleg?
Re: SWTOR
"Remember, remember - Kakk says 'December.'"
Would someone please acknowledge this?
Buying boosts = buying time.
Buying time != buying power.
::= Buying boosts != buying power
Subscription games that don't have a cash shop, or those with a cash shop that doesn't cross the line into selling advantage.
In a scenario i described in the post above, i wouldnt care about such a instant max level item. Because it would be rather irrelevant. But again, i dont know if GW2 will be like the scenario i described.. it is said.. But as a old saying says talking is cheap.
Boosts = more advancement and more wealth
more advancement = more power
more wealth = more power
Sure...
In an MMORPG,
Spending Time = Getting More Power
Buying Time = Spending Time
Therefore... Buying Time = Getting More Power
Therefore... Buying Time = Buying Power
QED, no?
Are you team Azeroth, team Tyria, or team Jacob?
The in game advantages have been listed many times over. And what is my favorite game that you seem to think I am playing? I can't wait to hear this considering I am not playing any MMOs right now. I would say my favorite game at the moment is Civ4 with C2C mod. But since that is completely free and not an MMO I'm not sure what you are talking about.
If you are imply SWTOR then LMFAO, the game was worth no more than a one month subscription and I cancelled it long ago. PVP was garbage and there was nothing to do once you leveled to cap which I did in the first month. The story was fun enough, but as MMO's go it was weak sauce...
GW2 "built from the ground up with microtransactions in mind"
1) Cash->Gems->Gold->Influence->WvWvWBoosts = PAY2WIN
2) Mystic Chests = Crass in-game cash shop advertisements
What seems bad to me is that anyone that doesnt agree with you is a fanboi. How about a company put out some information and some generally like the idea, some dont mind it, some would rather not have it and some hate it. just becaues you like the idea doesnt make you a fanboi, and just becaue you hate the idea doesnt make you a gw2 hater.
Nothing we say can change the fact that you believe its p2w. And im ok with that
To me it seems like whenever new information comes out everyone jumps on it and forgets everything else that was said, or pick and choice what to quote to benefit thier arguement.
For me the things in the cash shop will not effect my gameplay, and thats what makes me ok with them implementing something that wont effect me nor do i have to use it
If they start adding things like stat increase then i will have a problem with it
All you have said is that (2, 2, 2, 4, 5) != (2, 2, 3, 4, 5), but that doesn't mean that there are no connections of relevance.
Yes. And those games are?
GW2 "built from the ground up with microtransactions in mind"
1) Cash->Gems->Gold->Influence->WvWvWBoosts = PAY2WIN
2) Mystic Chests = Crass in-game cash shop advertisements
What an individual considers P2W varies considerably, especially because there really is no accepted definition.
However the OP gave his definition and GW2 meets that definition. Whether you agree or not is irrelevant. The question he asked was is there any MMO coming out that does not have his definition of P2W.
Personally I think GW2 cuts it pretty close, and I think GW1 definatly has it. However I personally don't care about cs in really any form.
To the OP. Sorry I can't think of any that won't have some of those things in them.
I don't have a clue. Upcoming subscription games that I know of are TERA, Archeage, and TSW. I suspect all three will have some form of cash shop. I've got no source for reliable information on if any will also include advantage items for sale. Even if they are planning on such, they tend to not make such information available. Doing so would hurt the credibility of the game.
Spending Time != Getting More Power
Spending Time = Getting to a capped power level sooner.
I am ipressed you responded calm cool and collected to my post which I admit was meant to be intentionally inflamatory, But I did that because I tuly believe that making excuses for Cash Shops in any way is a bad thing.
No matter how much you say it doesn't affect you...it does. Everything that revolves around gold among many many other things is directly influenced by the CS. You can deny it all you want. But it's still an MMO. IT's there, and more people will be using it than will admit here.
AS good as the game is, It will always be better for those who use it. Your own game experience will be diminished when compared to someone who buys.
And you are OK, with that...That's fine,
Everyone else is in total denail that they will be affected.
Yes, we all know you can grind and grind to get the cash shop items, but many pay2win models are based off of this identical model. Yes, you don't NEED to use cash shop but otherwise you need to spend hours and hours grinding for the gold or karma or whatever. Very simply put, getting the advantages without working for them. GW2 is now this form of pay2win model. Korean model.
GW2 "built from the ground up with microtransactions in mind"
1) Cash->Gems->Gold->Influence->WvWvWBoosts = PAY2WIN
2) Mystic Chests = Crass in-game cash shop advertisements
So if Buying Time = Buying Power
Pay2Play = buying gametime
gametime = time
Buying Power = Buying Time = Pay2win
then Pay2Play = Pay2win Whoa, WoW is pay2win!!!
Of course it would be hard to win a game you cannot access so... Of F@#$ing Course Buying Time = Buying Power. Derp.
Yes, spending time gets you ahead in an MMO. With a good cash shop, spending money gets you what time can get you but no more. Bad cash shop allows you to get power that you cannot get by spending time. When the ONLY way to get certain types of power is though the cash shop, then that is pay2win. When you can choose between time or money to get your power that is called... "crybabies will fill the forums with rage."
All die, so die well.
OK - so we both agree about SWTOR. I apologize for mistaking you for a SWeaTOR apologist.
I still disagree with your original premise. And this is a thread containing your arguments, and in your original post you don't tell us which items in the Guild Wars 2 cash shop are Play to Win items, or offer proof to back it up.
Re: SWTOR
"Remember, remember - Kakk says 'December.'"
Im not ok with that, and i dont agree with you that will happen. from looking at the game i just dont see what you can buy that will affect me, so you can level a little faster people will do that anyway so you can get karma a little faster again people will do that anyway. will they be better at the game then me because they bought money? nope. will what they bought allow them to beat me in pvp if there not as good as me? nope.
I guess i just dont see these advantages that you see, and i dont see how my game will be diminished. i will still log in, still pve with friends, still pvp against enimes on the same level as me (gear/stat wise).
I will let someone level faster then me if i can still fight them (win, lose or draw) on an even keel. and that is what gw2 offers me that no other mmo does and that is why im gonna be playing it