It's not like we don't have a shinning example of what happens when a HUGE name company takes a very popular SPRPG title with a very well known IP and convert it into a very expensive to produce MMORPG.
Ok help me out GeeTee. I need a hint. FYI I had one cup of coffee today not 2. Also I slept half the day because I forgot to change my clocks. Not cool. Now my brain is working at half speed
Wondering if you mean Skyrim. Which I HOPE HAPPENS! And if it happens I hope they don't forget why people LOVE it.
My post in a roundabout way is saying that just because you have what appears to be all the components of a successful game, does not mean that is what you will get.
Originally posted by Melangel Originally posted by GeeTeeEffOh
Originally posted by Melangel
Originally posted by GeeTeeEffOh
It's not like we don't have a shinning example of what happens when a HUGE name company takes a very popular SPRPG title with a very well known IP and convert it into a very expensive to produce MMORPG.
Ok help me out GeeTee. I need a hint. FYI I had one cup of coffee today not 2. Also I slept half the day because I forgot to change my clocks. Not cool. Now my brain is working at half speed Wondering if you mean Skyrim. Which I HOPE HAPPENS! And if it happens I hope they don't forget why people LOVE it.
My post in a roundabout way is saying that just because you have what appears to be all the components of a successful game, does not mean that is what you will get. Got it and I agree.
But it doesn't mean autofail either. it just means that the developers need to do their home work, do their market research, find out who their potential player base is, find what they want. Pay attention to the basics 1st and not develop your MMO after your "Twist" and for god sake they can not assume that what worked for another game will automatically work for them.
Originally posted by Melangel Originally posted by GeeTeeEffOh
Originally posted by Melangel
Originally posted by GeeTeeEffOh
It's not like we don't have a shinning example of what happens when a HUGE name company takes a very popular SPRPG title with a very well known IP and convert it into a very expensive to produce MMORPG.
Ok help me out GeeTee. I need a hint. FYI I had one cup of coffee today not 2. Also I slept half the day because I forgot to change my clocks. Not cool. Now my brain is working at half speed Wondering if you mean Skyrim. Which I HOPE HAPPENS! And if it happens I hope they don't forget why people LOVE it.
My post in a roundabout way is saying that just because you have what appears to be all the components of a successful game, does not mean that is what you will get. Got it and I agree.
But it doesn't mean autofail either. it just means that the developers need to do their home work, do their market research, find out who their potential player base is, find what they want. Pay attention to the basics 1st and not develop your MMO after your "Twist" and for god sake they can not assume that what worked for another game will automatically work for them.
It's not like we don't have a shinning example of what happens when a HUGE name company takes a very popular SPRPG title with a very well known IP and convert it into a very expensive to produce MMORPG.
Ok help me out GeeTee. I need a hint. FYI I had one cup of coffee today not 2. Also I slept half the day because I forgot to change my clocks. Not cool. Now my brain is working at half speed
Wondering if you mean Skyrim. Which I HOPE HAPPENS! And if it happens I hope they don't forget why people LOVE it.
My post in a roundabout way is saying that just because you have what appears to be all the components of a successful game, does not mean that is what you will get.
Got it and I agree.
But it doesn't mean autofail either. it just means that the developers need to do their home work, do their market research, find out who their potential player base is, find what they want. Pay attention to the basics 1st and not develop your MMO after your "Twist" and for god sake they can not assume that what worked for another game will automatically work for them.
And remember why your fans liked the single player version to begin with. Surely it's not impossible to merge these ideas together. I hope not at least.
Thinking of course of my dream for an ES mmo. Stick it on rails and that would suck to the high heavens
Originally posted by Melangel Originally posted by GeeTeeEffOh
Originally posted by Melangel
Originally posted by GeeTeeEffOh
Originally posted by Melangel
Originally posted by GeeTeeEffOh
It's not like we don't have a shinning example of what happens when a HUGE name company takes a very popular SPRPG title with a very well known IP and convert it into a very expensive to produce MMORPG.
Ok help me out GeeTee. I need a hint. FYI I had one cup of coffee today not 2. Also I slept half the day because I forgot to change my clocks. Not cool. Now my brain is working at half speed Wondering if you mean Skyrim. Which I HOPE HAPPENS! And if it happens I hope they don't forget why people LOVE it.
My post in a roundabout way is saying that just because you have what appears to be all the components of a successful game, does not mean that is what you will get.
Got it and I agree.
But it doesn't mean autofail either. it just means that the developers need to do their home work, do their market research, find out who their potential player base is, find what they want. Pay attention to the basics 1st and not develop your MMO after your "Twist" and for god sake they can not assume that what worked for another game will automatically work for them. And remember why your fans liked the single player version to begin with. Surely it's not impossible to merge these ideas together. I hope not at least. Thinking of course of my dream for an ES mmo. Stick it on rails and that would suck to the high heavens
That approach was destiend to fail from the word go. It goes back to homework.
What makes an SPRPG tick is diametrically opposed to what makes an MMO tick.
The more and more soloing features in a game, the less and less it becomes an MMO. They tried to make some kind of hybrid out of what they are known for and incorporate it into an MMO, but that is exactly what doomed them.
It would be like trying to build a hybrid car by fusing two FWD front ends together.
Sure it may start up, sure the motors may be the most efficient ever, but your car isn't really going anywhere.
That approach was destiend to fail from the word go. It goes back to homework.
What makes an SPRPG tick is diametrically opposed to what makes an MMO tick.
The more and more soloing features in a game, the less and less it becomes an MMO.
They tried to make some kind of hybrid out of what they are known for and incorporate it into an MMO, but that is exactly what doomed them.
It would be like trying to build a hybrid car by fusing two FWD front ends together.
Sure it may start up, sure the motors may be the most efficient ever, but your car isn't really going anywhere.
So that brings up the question I guess, what games had genuinely successful thempark and sandbox elements. None lately that's for sure and it seems any real attempt at making such a game ended after the success of a certain other game which I played, had fun in but it had no longevity for me for the same reasons it had longevity to others. Just wondering if you can come close to pleasing a very large variety of players in one game in 2012 and beyond. I would like to think so. Maybe I am an optimist?
Originally posted by Melangel Originally posted by GeeTeeEffOh
That approach was destiend to fail from the word go. It goes back to homework. What makes an SPRPG tick is diametrically opposed to what makes an MMO tick. The more and more soloing features in a game, the less and less it becomes an MMO. They tried to make some kind of hybrid out of what they are known for and incorporate it into an MMO, but that is exactly what doomed them. It would be like trying to build a hybrid car by fusing two FWD front ends together. Sure it may start up, sure the motors may be the most efficient ever, but your car isn't really going anywhere.
So that brings up the question I guess, what games had genuinely successful thempark and sandbox elements. None lately that's for sure and it seems any real attempt at making such a game ended after the success of a certain other game which I played, had fun in but it had no longevity for me for the same reasons it had longevity to others. Just wondering if you can come close to pleasing a very large variety of players in one game in 2012 and beyond. I would like to think so. Maybe I am an optimist?
Because no one is going back to the drawing board. They all want to build off what made the most money. Take a look at City of Heroes. It was a Theme Park game. But initially, it was nothing like WoW. Every WoW clone is a Theme Park. but not every Theme Park is a WoW Clone.
My only question is "Why do themeparks and sandboxes have to be mutually exclusive?".
I think the last years of SWG show that they can work together pretty well. Remove focus from the combat engine changes and just look at the content available to players at the end. It had a very good list of features in my opinion. Now add on the CU style combat (32 functioning professions with a more familiar control scheme), and I think you would still have a few hundred-thousand playing that game.
Originally posted by Rojiin My only question is "Why do themeparks and sandboxes have to be mutually exclusive?". I think the last years of SWG show that they can work together pretty well. Remove focus from the combat engine changes and just look at the content available to players at the end. It had a very good list of features in my opinion. Now add on the CU style combat (32 functioning professions with a more familiar control scheme), and I think you would still have a few hundred-thousand playing that game.
They don't SWG was largely considered a sandbox...But really it was a hybrid. It had a lot of theme park elements in it
Because no one is going back to the drawing board.
They all want to build off what made the most money.
Take a look at City of Heroes. It was a Theme Park game. But initially, it was nothing like WoW.
Every WoW clone is a Theme Park. but not every Theme Park is a WoW Clone.
That's true in regards to City of Heroes though I haven't played it in a very long while. I don't know what it's like NOW but I played it at the start and found it fun though the character creation was where I spent most of my time I have to admit!
As for SWG, it's the only one I could think of personally though I've seen people mention UO or maybe EVE neither of which I have played. And it is probably a good point about what makes the most money which sucks because it seems that it's becomming more profitable to make a disposable game that lasts 2 or 3 years max that most people will only play a few months and then move on to the next disposable, then a game that goes on for 7, 8, 9 years or beyond with a smaller player base. I don't know if that made any sense at all outside my own head.
My only question is "Why do themeparks and sandboxes have to be mutually exclusive?".
...
They don't necessarily have to, but it's a very fine line to make a good hybrid. Both SWG and (to a certain extent) even LotRO can be described as hybrids. Likewise with Vanguard.
The difficulty is in the details (as always). For example, in a themepark players are used to get their gear as quest rewards, in a sandbox people expect that gear is made by crafters. There's not much middle ground here. If the good gear comes from crafters then the themeparkers need to become part of the game economy, if the best gear is given as quest reward or drops from raid bosses there's no need to have crafters or a game economy at all.
I maintain this List of Sandbox MMORPGs. Please post or send PM for corrections and suggestions.
A lot of people have been complaining for the last couple of years that MMORPGs produced now are stale. I have been playing a lot of Skyrim for the last couple of days and thinking about how it is different to play a single-player game.
Obviously, MMORPGs are meant to be played with others. As far as I can tell, there have basically been two things you can do:
(1) PvE -- Since there are other people playing, you need stronger enemies (bosses) and a motivation (loot). So there is the level up to learn your class and then raid for "endgame." You gain levels (and/or better gear through loot drops). You can have a bit of PvP in instanced "battlegrounds."
(2) PvP -- The other thing you can do with lots of people. Some MMORPGs are centered around this: Darkfall, Mortal Online, EVE, etc. They have a bit of PvE for when people need resources or to take a break. You either gain levels, or level up skills. These are for groups of people to fight other groups in clans, guilds, factions, or realms for whatever political or economic reasons.
Recently, in an attempt to dodge the charge of not innovating, some games are going to a seeming third option of:
(3) Dynamic Events -- But this is really a masked form of raid (Rift, with raid rifts), which is more spontaneous, quicker, and maybe more convenient: e.g., rifts, public quests. Or they can be PvP, like the PvP rifts in Rift. I'm not sure what GW2 is going to do here. Is this really a third category? Or is it a form of (1) and (2) either separetly or hybridized?
Here are the questions I have:
What else can you do in an MMORPG?
How might an Elder Scrolls MMORPG possibly be different from the above? And how could it live up to the Elder Scrolls single-player world most of us know and love?
Is GW2 really any different?
What is the future of innovation for MMORPGs; or do we have everything we can possibly, except graphics will just get better?
Having missed these games in their prime, how were UO and SWG different from the above (1)-(3) (if they were)
EDIT: You might be able to add some kind of simulation option like the Sims, where you get a house (a lot of people would probably go for player housing, but no devs seem to want to go for it for some reason), you can dress up ( lot of people like cosmetic items and pets), and socialize. Is this a possibility? Have any games done this? Let's call it:
(4) Simulation + other people -- This contains (1)-(3) above, as well as the choice to stay in a city, have a house, do quests in town and level up your sim/avatar. Is this a possible future for MMORPGs? Is it feasible? How would it look?
Sigh..
Reading posts like these really made me feel old, and I'm only 28 years old.
Your third option is simply a conduit to make 1 and 2 more accessible. It's not even really a stand-alone #3 option. You hit on housing. Housing a nice money and time sink for the players. That could be #3. Firstly, there is finding a nice spot to place your new home. Secondly, there is the constant changing of the exterior and interior of your home. Decorating works in line with a #4 option. That option is meaningful crafting. Player crafted items that mean something in the game world. Carpentry for home decoration. Engineering for siege machines and structure upgrades. Architecture for house design and obviously your typical blacksmithing, leatherworking, alchemy, tailoring, first aid, among others. Also, your normal gathering skills. Most MMORPG's make all of these things an afterthought. No more than a itme sink that ends up being pointless due to the best items being found from boss drops. Then there is a #5 option that should include something that most developers ignore. Open world exploration. Vast oceans with islands dotting the sea. Carpenters and architects building boats for players, players taking those boats out to sea. Exploring the islands, exploring underwater, pirating, sea monsters, or just sitting out there by yourself or with a friend.. fishing. Angling profession can be time consuming and being a cook as a profession comes from this. Exploring is really underrated. These other things do not involve fighting either(sans sea battles), so they truly are legitimate alternate options. Then there is #6, it's something that LoTR made fun. Composing music. There way was pretty crude, but it worked and some people made some really cool songs or even covered some of their favorite music in the game. It was mostly a social thing though, as it did not drive the economy in any way. #7 I suppose would be playing the market, but that's more of a logic thing. It's not what I would call content. But, in some older games, you could set up your own shop vendor at your house or certain market areas inside cities.. and sell your wares that you acquired by PvP, PvE or playing the market.
It's not like we don't have a shinning example of what happens when a HUGE name company takes a very popular SPRPG title with a very well known IP and convert it into a very expensive to produce MMORPG.
Ok help me out GeeTee. I need a hint. FYI I had one cup of coffee today not 2. Also I slept half the day because I forgot to change my clocks. Not cool. Now my brain is working at half speed
Wondering if you mean Skyrim. Which I HOPE HAPPENS! And if it happens I hope they don't forget why people LOVE it.
My post in a roundabout way is saying that just because you have what appears to be all the components of a successful game, does not mean that is what you will get.
Got it and I agree.
But it doesn't mean autofail either. it just means that the developers need to do their home work, do their market research, find out who their potential player base is, find what they want. Pay attention to the basics 1st and not develop your MMO after your "Twist" and for god sake they can not assume that what worked for another game will automatically work for them.
And remember why your fans liked the single player version to begin with. Surely it's not impossible to merge these ideas together. I hope not at least.
Thinking of course of my dream for an ES mmo. Stick it on rails and that would suck to the high heavens
That approach was destiend to fail from the word go. It goes back to homework.
What makes an SPRPG tick is diametrically opposed to what makes an MMO tick.
The more and more soloing features in a game, the less and less it becomes an MMO.
They tried to make some kind of hybrid out of what they are known for and incorporate it into an MMO, but that is exactly what doomed them.
It would be like trying to build a hybrid car by fusing two FWD front ends together.
Sure it may start up, sure the motors may be the most efficient ever, but your car isn't really going anywhere.
Nice post DAS. For me that's what makes Skyrim in particular a nice game for me. I can craft, explore, quest, whatever and I don't feel like whatever I have decided to do has been a time filler or time waster built in to get me to the next town or area. Sometimes what I set out to do isn't what I end up doing in the end either. I don't mind getting distracted in a game when curiosity brings me off the beaten track. I don't know how you would fit such a system into an MMO that would appeal to another crowd too. Though to be honest I enjoy questing, dungeons in a game too. I just don't want that to be ALL there is because then it gets old and repetative and I stop playing.
P.S. I kind of had this experience to a lesser degree in Ryzom but probably the loneliest MMO I have ever played and if I wasn't sub'ing with my son also I wouldn't have payed to play it. Proof I guess that pure sandbox doesn't work as an MMO either.
It's not like we don't have a shinning example of what happens when a HUGE name company takes a very popular SPRPG title with a very well known IP and convert it into a very expensive to produce MMORPG.
While that's true, these two companies are nothing alike they have completely different ideas on what makes a good RPG.
This is so true. Their focus on game design philosophy is drastically different. Bioware is (or was) very good at telling an interactive story but the experience feels very directed by the developers. Bethesda is very good at creating worlds and leaving all of the direction up to the players. How well they can transfer this openness into a MMO remains to be seen but it's been their main focus in almost everything they've done up to this point so there is no logically reason they would change that focus for a MMO. As Todd Howard himself put it, "We at Bethesda try to create the biggest craziest open world possible where we drop in the player and let them go nuts." This is their sole focus in game design and has been for a very long time.
Originally posted by DAS1337 Then there is a #5 option that should include something that most developers ignore. Open world exploration. Vast oceans with islands dotting the sea. Carpenters and architects building boats for players, players taking those boats out to sea. Exploring the islands, exploring underwater, pirating, sea monsters, or just sitting out there by yourself or with a friend.. fishing. Angling profession can be time consuming and being a cook as a profession comes from this. Exploring is really underrated. These other things do not involve fighting either(sans sea battles), so they truly are legitimate alternate options.
Sorry to make you feel old, Das, but I have almost 20 years on you
What you said here about #5 is what kept me playing Darkfall for almost 2 years. I loved the exploration, building my raft and taking off to explore islands. Sometimes I got owned by the monsters. Sometimes I found some really cool stuff. Sometimes much more advanced characters (or just plain old better pvpers, or people who just got the drop on me) would kill me. That was okay. I just shrugged it off and went on about my exploration.
So yeah, I love option #5 and need that to be engaged in any game I play. That's why I'm just playing Skyrim now. Then I will go back and do Morrowind, unless there is a new game that comes along and gives me #5.
Comments
Got it and I agree.
the poster formerly known as melangel :P
Ok help me out GeeTee. I need a hint. FYI I had one cup of coffee today not 2. Also I slept half the day because I forgot to change my clocks. Not cool. Now my brain is working at half speed
Wondering if you mean Skyrim. Which I HOPE HAPPENS! And if it happens I hope they don't forget why people LOVE it.
My post in a roundabout way is saying that just because you have what appears to be all the components of a successful game, does not mean that is what you will get.
Got it and I agree.
But it doesn't mean autofail either. it just means that the developers need to do their home work, do their market research, find out who their potential player base is, find what they want. Pay attention to the basics 1st and not develop your MMO after your "Twist" and for god sake they can not assume that what worked for another game will automatically work for them.
Ok help me out GeeTee. I need a hint. FYI I had one cup of coffee today not 2. Also I slept half the day because I forgot to change my clocks. Not cool. Now my brain is working at half speed
Wondering if you mean Skyrim. Which I HOPE HAPPENS! And if it happens I hope they don't forget why people LOVE it.
My post in a roundabout way is saying that just because you have what appears to be all the components of a successful game, does not mean that is what you will get.
Got it and I agree.
But it doesn't mean autofail either. it just means that the developers need to do their home work, do their market research, find out who their potential player base is, find what they want. Pay attention to the basics 1st and not develop your MMO after your "Twist" and for god sake they can not assume that what worked for another game will automatically work for them.
Or even what worked in another genre.And remember why your fans liked the single player version to begin with. Surely it's not impossible to merge these ideas together. I hope not at least.
Thinking of course of my dream for an ES mmo. Stick it on rails and that would suck to the high heavens
the poster formerly known as melangel :P
Ok help me out GeeTee. I need a hint. FYI I had one cup of coffee today not 2. Also I slept half the day because I forgot to change my clocks. Not cool. Now my brain is working at half speed
Wondering if you mean Skyrim. Which I HOPE HAPPENS! And if it happens I hope they don't forget why people LOVE it.
My post in a roundabout way is saying that just because you have what appears to be all the components of a successful game, does not mean that is what you will get.
Got it and I agree.
But it doesn't mean autofail either. it just means that the developers need to do their home work, do their market research, find out who their potential player base is, find what they want. Pay attention to the basics 1st and not develop your MMO after your "Twist" and for god sake they can not assume that what worked for another game will automatically work for them.
And remember why your fans liked the single player version to begin with. Surely it's not impossible to merge these ideas together. I hope not at least.
Thinking of course of my dream for an ES mmo. Stick it on rails and that would suck to the high heavens
That approach was destiend to fail from the word go. It goes back to homework.
What makes an SPRPG tick is diametrically opposed to what makes an MMO tick.
The more and more soloing features in a game, the less and less it becomes an MMO.
They tried to make some kind of hybrid out of what they are known for and incorporate it into an MMO, but that is exactly what doomed them.
It would be like trying to build a hybrid car by fusing two FWD front ends together.
Sure it may start up, sure the motors may be the most efficient ever, but your car isn't really going anywhere.
So that brings up the question I guess, what games had genuinely successful thempark and sandbox elements. None lately that's for sure and it seems any real attempt at making such a game ended after the success of a certain other game which I played, had fun in but it had no longevity for me for the same reasons it had longevity to others. Just wondering if you can come close to pleasing a very large variety of players in one game in 2012 and beyond. I would like to think so. Maybe I am an optimist?
the poster formerly known as melangel :P
Because no one is going back to the drawing board.
They all want to build off what made the most money.
Take a look at City of Heroes. It was a Theme Park game. But initially, it was nothing like WoW.
Every WoW clone is a Theme Park. but not every Theme Park is a WoW Clone.
My only question is "Why do themeparks and sandboxes have to be mutually exclusive?".
I think the last years of SWG show that they can work together pretty well. Remove focus from the combat engine changes and just look at the content available to players at the end. It had a very good list of features in my opinion. Now add on the CU style combat (32 functioning professions with a more familiar control scheme), and I think you would still have a few hundred-thousand playing that game.
They don't
SWG was largely considered a sandbox...But really it was a hybrid. It had a lot of theme park elements in it
That's true in regards to City of Heroes though I haven't played it in a very long while. I don't know what it's like NOW but I played it at the start and found it fun though the character creation was where I spent most of my time I have to admit!
As for SWG, it's the only one I could think of personally though I've seen people mention UO or maybe EVE neither of which I have played. And it is probably a good point about what makes the most money which sucks because it seems that it's becomming more profitable to make a disposable game that lasts 2 or 3 years max that most people will only play a few months and then move on to the next disposable, then a game that goes on for 7, 8, 9 years or beyond with a smaller player base. I don't know if that made any sense at all outside my own head.
the poster formerly known as melangel :P
They don't necessarily have to, but it's a very fine line to make a good hybrid. Both SWG and (to a certain extent) even LotRO can be described as hybrids. Likewise with Vanguard.
The difficulty is in the details (as always). For example, in a themepark players are used to get their gear as quest rewards, in a sandbox people expect that gear is made by crafters. There's not much middle ground here. If the good gear comes from crafters then the themeparkers need to become part of the game economy, if the best gear is given as quest reward or drops from raid bosses there's no need to have crafters or a game economy at all.
I maintain this List of Sandbox MMORPGs. Please post or send PM for corrections and suggestions.
Sigh..
Reading posts like these really made me feel old, and I'm only 28 years old.
Your third option is simply a conduit to make 1 and 2 more accessible. It's not even really a stand-alone #3 option. You hit on housing. Housing a nice money and time sink for the players. That could be #3. Firstly, there is finding a nice spot to place your new home. Secondly, there is the constant changing of the exterior and interior of your home. Decorating works in line with a #4 option. That option is meaningful crafting. Player crafted items that mean something in the game world. Carpentry for home decoration. Engineering for siege machines and structure upgrades. Architecture for house design and obviously your typical blacksmithing, leatherworking, alchemy, tailoring, first aid, among others. Also, your normal gathering skills. Most MMORPG's make all of these things an afterthought. No more than a itme sink that ends up being pointless due to the best items being found from boss drops. Then there is a #5 option that should include something that most developers ignore. Open world exploration. Vast oceans with islands dotting the sea. Carpenters and architects building boats for players, players taking those boats out to sea. Exploring the islands, exploring underwater, pirating, sea monsters, or just sitting out there by yourself or with a friend.. fishing. Angling profession can be time consuming and being a cook as a profession comes from this. Exploring is really underrated. These other things do not involve fighting either(sans sea battles), so they truly are legitimate alternate options. Then there is #6, it's something that LoTR made fun. Composing music. There way was pretty crude, but it worked and some people made some really cool songs or even covered some of their favorite music in the game. It was mostly a social thing though, as it did not drive the economy in any way. #7 I suppose would be playing the market, but that's more of a logic thing. It's not what I would call content. But, in some older games, you could set up your own shop vendor at your house or certain market areas inside cities.. and sell your wares that you acquired by PvP, PvE or playing the market.
There are exceptions. UO was mostly a solo game.
Nice post DAS. For me that's what makes Skyrim in particular a nice game for me. I can craft, explore, quest, whatever and I don't feel like whatever I have decided to do has been a time filler or time waster built in to get me to the next town or area. Sometimes what I set out to do isn't what I end up doing in the end either. I don't mind getting distracted in a game when curiosity brings me off the beaten track. I don't know how you would fit such a system into an MMO that would appeal to another crowd too. Though to be honest I enjoy questing, dungeons in a game too. I just don't want that to be ALL there is because then it gets old and repetative and I stop playing.
P.S. I kind of had this experience to a lesser degree in Ryzom but probably the loneliest MMO I have ever played and if I wasn't sub'ing with my son also I wouldn't have payed to play it. Proof I guess that pure sandbox doesn't work as an MMO either.
the poster formerly known as melangel :P
This is so true. Their focus on game design philosophy is drastically different. Bioware is (or was) very good at telling an interactive story but the experience feels very directed by the developers. Bethesda is very good at creating worlds and leaving all of the direction up to the players. How well they can transfer this openness into a MMO remains to be seen but it's been their main focus in almost everything they've done up to this point so there is no logically reason they would change that focus for a MMO. As Todd Howard himself put it, "We at Bethesda try to create the biggest craziest open world possible where we drop in the player and let them go nuts." This is their sole focus in game design and has been for a very long time.
Bren
while(horse==dead)
{
beat();
}
Sorry to make you feel old, Das, but I have almost 20 years on you
What you said here about #5 is what kept me playing Darkfall for almost 2 years. I loved the exploration, building my raft and taking off to explore islands. Sometimes I got owned by the monsters. Sometimes I found some really cool stuff. Sometimes much more advanced characters (or just plain old better pvpers, or people who just got the drop on me) would kill me. That was okay. I just shrugged it off and went on about my exploration.
So yeah, I love option #5 and need that to be engaged in any game I play. That's why I'm just playing Skyrim now. Then I will go back and do Morrowind, unless there is a new game that comes along and gives me #5.